1. #76781
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    I mean, there's horror stories coming out every day. Like the unvaccinated wife who came home from the hospital to find her unvaccinated husband dead.

    Anecdotes make data personal. The full story is the real weight.

    While leaders in that state also refused lockdowns and mask orders, they made it a priority to vaccinate vulnerable older people. Gov. Ron DeSantis, a Republican, opened mass vaccination sites and sent teams to retirement communities and nursing homes. Younger people also lined up for shots.

    Mr. DeSantis and public health experts expected a rise in cases this summer as people gathered indoors in the air-conditioning. But what happened was much worse: Cases spiraled out of control, reaching peaks higher than Florida had seen before. Hospitalizations followed. So did deaths, which are considerably higher than the numbers currently reached anywhere else in the country.

    The Florida story is a cautionary tale for dealing with the current incarnation of the coronavirus. The United States has used the vaccines as its primary pandemic weapon. But Florida shows that even a state that made a major push for vaccinations — Florida ranks 21st among states and Washington, D.C., in giving people of all ages at least one shot — can be crushed by the Delta variant, reaching frightening levels of hospitalizations and deaths.

    “Clearly the vaccines are keeping most of these people out of the hospital, but we’re not building the herd immunity that people hoped,” Mr. DeSantis said at a news conference this past week. “You’ve got a huge percentage of people — adults — that have gotten shots, and yet you’ve still seen a wave.”
    A quick interruption: when I read that, I immediately said, based on DeSantis and the voters he's talking to, "Gov. DeSantis is implying vaccines don't work". Is that putting words in his mouth? Yeah, probably. Was it unfair? No. Maybe if I had no idea who the speaker was, I'd read that first part and say "oh, he's saying herd immunity isn't enough or at least not yet and wants more people to help" but DeSantis has used up all his benefit of the doubt. I'm more than willing to publicly assume the worst of him, that he's intentionally killing his own voters, at this point, because so far the data backs me up.

    Morgues and crematories are full or getting there. Public utilities in Orlando and Tampa have asked residents to cut back on water usage so liquid oxygen, which is used in water treatment, can be conserved for hospitals. As of Friday, Florida was recording an average of 242 virus deaths a day, nearly as many as California and Texas combined, though a few states still had a higher per capita rate, according to public health data tracked by The New York Times.

    Florida’s pandemic data, more scant since the state ended its declared Covid-19 state of emergency in June, reveals only limited information about who is dying. Hospitals have said upward of 90 percent of their patients have been unvaccinated. Exactly why the state has been so hard-hit remains an elusive question. Other states with comparable vaccine coverage have a small fraction of Florida’s hospitalization rate.

    The best explanation of what has happened is that Florida’s vaccination rates were good, but not good enough for its demographics. It has so many older people that even vaccinating a vast majority of them left more than 800,000 unprotected. Vaccination rates among younger people were uneven, so clusters of people remained at risk. Previous virus waves, which were milder than in some other states, conferred only some natural immunity.

    And Florida is Florida: People have enjoyed many months of barhopping, party-going and traveling, all activities conducive to swift virus spread.

    Unlike in places like Oregon, which is clamping down again, adopting even outdoor mask mandates, Mr. DeSantis continues to stay the course, hoping to power through despite the devastating human toll. A Quinnipiac University poll released this past week found that Mr. DeSantis’s approval rating was 47 percent.

    He and other state officials have sought to steer away from measures that could curtail infections, banning strict mask mandates in public schools. The biggest school districts imposed them anyway, and on Friday, a state judge ruled that Florida could not prevent those mandates, a decision the Department of Education plans to appeal.

    Florida has experienced more deaths than normal — from all causes, not just Covid-19 — throughout the pandemic. In the early weeks of 2021, with cases surging and the vaccine rollout kicking off, the state averaged 5,600 deaths each week, about a third more than typical for that time of year, according to mortality figures from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The deaths dropped and then went back up.

    These excess deaths are important, both because a number of Covid-19 deaths occur outside hospitals, and because the virus may contribute to deaths from other causes as a result of the strain on the health system.

    In the first week of August, the state recorded another 5,600 deaths. But because mortality rates normally drop during summer months, the figure was more than 50 percent above what’s typical.

    Those who did not get vaccinated are only part of the explanation behind the surge. Many states slammed by the virus earlier developed deep reservoirs of natural immunity from prior infections, affording them higher levels of protection than would be evident from vaccination rates alone.

    Not so in Florida. Compared to other states, Florida was spared as devastating a wintertime wave of cases as ravaged other parts of the country — in part because warm weather made it possible for people to gather outdoors. That was a boon to Florida’s economy and its political leaders but a liability come summertime, when the state was unable to rely on the same wall of natural immunity that is now helping to shield places walloped by the virus this winter.

    The situation in nursing homes, where infections can spread swiftly, has also been problematic. While vaccination rates among older Floridians as a whole have been good, the rate of nursing home residents who are fully vaccinated — an average of 73.1 percent in each home — is lower than every state but Nevada, according to the C.D.C. About 47.5 percent of nursing home staff members were fully vaccinated as of Aug. 15, the lowest of any state but Louisiana.
    Just going to point out there were a few Florida elected officials who pointed at NY and said "they are screwing up how they handle nursing homes". They can fuck right off, since they're objectively worse -- and watched NYState screw up, and decided to screw up even worse. You can find more info in this hilariously oudated spring article about how DeSantis opened up the state and it worked out perfectly and fine and perfectly and great.

    There's more, of course, the NYTimes goes on and on. But I think you get the point.
    1) DeSantis has assumed, falsely, that a middle-of-the-road vaccination percentage was enough to keep his state from becoming a global embarrassment.
    2) Then with that assumption as a backdrop, intentionally fought against the common-sense protections that other states either leapt into or begrudgingly started.
    3) The Delta variant found not only the elderly population of Florida, but its young partygoing visitors, particularly vulnerable. Neither got vaccinated enough, possibly due to DeSantis' handwaving, as I'm vindictively and biasedly throwing at him due to his words and actions.
    4) "Herd immunity" means something different when the state constantly strives to circulate tourists. It's not that it can't happen, but the same rules just don't apply. They apply even less when you intentionally make your state appealling to unvaccinated people.
    5) Now, Florida is in such bad shape they can't even hide the deaths anymore. And I don't just mean the numbers (because all deaths are up 30-50%) I mean there's no places to put the dead bodies. Hospitals aren't waiting for DeSantis to ask FEMA for help, they're just doing it directly.

    Florida took a giant gamble, and doubled down on it. They lost.

    Not even Florida believes DeSantis anymore. Deaths are solidly over 200/day again, which of course is a new record again. One patient in six is in Florida. And the best defense DeSantis has is this FOX News headline because of course it's FOX News saying "hey hey hey, it wasn't nine hundred deaths in one day! It was close to two or three!"

    And the kids are in school now. Well, the ones that weren't quarantined because they went to school.

  2. #76782
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    And the kids are in school now. Well, the ones that weren't quarantined because they went to school.
    Yep. My nephew's one of them. Probably my niece too. She hadn't tested positive last I heard but they don't have a large house so it's nearly impossible to keep him separate from her at all times. All because some fuckhead Floridian parent sent their kid to school with no mask and a nosefull of COVID.

    7 months out we're still mired in the TRUMP SHITSHOW.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Add Alabama to the list of states running out of space for their dead due to COVID.


    'There is no room to put these bodies,' Alabama health official says, as Covid-19 deaths climb

    The state activated two of its four refrigerated trailers for the first time since the pandemic began, Harris said, in Mobile and Baldwin counties this week.

    "These are typically held in case of a mass casualty event for example, when a large number of bodies appear at one time. This is actually a situation that is happening in Alabama hospitals now," Harris said.

    "We have enough people dying ... that there is no room to put these bodies," he added. "We are really in a crisis situation. ... I don't know how much longer we're going to be able to do this."
    Plenty of folks were criticizing New York for having nowhere to put their dead at the start of the pandemic when very little was known about the virus. Now there's very little excuse for there to be this many dead and dying.

  3. #76783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Now there's very little excuse for there to be this many dead and dying.
    They'll be pleased to know Ida is currently forecast to miss the state entirely. Silver linings.

    I will point out that, while Alabama has declared state of emergency, they've declared it along the coast for Ida. They have not declared it for the disease that's filled every single morgue spot they have and is hungry for more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Once again, it's time for Guess the Speaker!

    This fall, Pfizer is going to be in a position — the company I'm on the board of, as you mentioned — be in a position to file data with the FDA at some point in September and then file the application potentially as early as October, so that'll put us on a time frame where the vaccine could be available at some point late fall, more likely early winter, depending on how long FDA takes to review the application.

    It could take longer to get to an authorization, but the agency will be in a position to make an authorization, I believe, at some point late fall, probably early winter, and probably they're going to base their decision on what the circumstances around the country, what the urgency is, to get to a vaccine for kids.
    That's Gottlieb, former Trump FDA head, now Pfizer board of directors member.

    "Surely you're not going into more 'Trump is corrupt' again? Because if we carpeted the floor with those, we couldn't open the door."

    Well, maybe a little bit, but not really. Gottlieb left office April 2019. This would be run-of-the-mill corruption, you know, where Trump said "none of MY cabinet will become lobbyists" and boom bam board of directors so yeah, promise broken. But April 2019 was so far ahead of Jan 22, 2020, that in this context I need his name for something else.

    Trump said the vaccine was good. Team Trump is saying get the vaccine. The rabid fanbase is running out of reasons not to get the vaccine. At this point, the calls are coming from the current admin, the former admin, and the companies themselves. The only people continuing to claim the vaccine is secretly Jason from Friday the XIII are Gaetz, Alex Jones and probably Jessica Simpson. I would add Marc Bernier, aka "Mr. Anti Vax", but he died of COVID. No he wasn't "Dr. Anti Vax" just to get ahead of that one. He was 65.

    I also can't add Caleb Wallace, leader of the San Angelo Freedom Defenders in Texas. You might remember him from a "stop the COVID tyranny" rally back in Octobrer. He checked into a hospital July 30 and is now released in the sense that he died of COVID. He was 30.

    To those who wished him death, I’m sorry his views and opinions hurt you. I prayed he’d come out of this with a new perspective and more appreciation for life
    -- his widow

    "Okay fine, but Gottlieb didn't say anything about masks, did he, oh ho ho, oh ho ho ho?"

    He did.

    And then using masks and improving ventilation is also going to be very important and finally getting kids vaccinated. About 50 percent of kids who are eligible to be vaccinated have been vaccinated, so there's still a lot of work we can do there, getting parents more information, trying to encourage parents to vaccinate their children.
    "But Gottlieb is no longer in a position of authority. His calls are entirely self-serving in the wallet department."

    If the vaccine starts killing kids, then no it isn't. Also he doesn't make or sell masks...I think...or "school pods" which apparently he also talked about. They're like Tide pods, except when you consume one, one sick teacher doesn't wipe out half a graduating class.

    Or, I guess in the hysterical screaming NO NO NO you could just say Trump hired a corrupt corporate shill who can't be trusted. I mean, you could say that. I'll accept that. I still win, but instead of listening to sound advice you'd continue to run around unmasked and possibly kill yourself, some old people, and maybe some children. Treat this disease seriously, as if it could kill you. I get tired of naming people who didn't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The EU is about to take the USA off the safe travel list.

    Anyhow apparently the EU has a rule that says it's safe to visit for nonessential purposes if your cases/100k population is 75 or lower. The US is...um...a little higher. Like...300, according to the CDC whole country results. Even states that are doing well by comparison to the US as a whole, states like Illinois and Massachusetts, are over 100 cases/100k population. So while Fuck Florida is a continuing statement, at least this time, they're not the only problem.

    Also apparently Denmark has said "we're all so vaccinated, anyone can come" or something to that effect.

  4. #76784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Also apparently Denmark has said "we're all so vaccinated, anyone can come" or something to that effect.
    We have sorta cancelled all [internal] restrictions (or well, we will have by september 10 i think it is)

    It is a miracle, by just a stroke of a pen those coughing people in trains and restaurants are no longer contageous.

  5. #76785
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    We have sorta cancelled all [internal] restrictions (or well, we will have by september 10 i think it is)
    Oh, sweet, a local. Overall, how do you think your country handled things?

  6. #76786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Oh, sweet, a local. Overall, how do you think your country handled things?
    Pretty well to be honest

    There are a countries that have done better but over all, we kept cases lowish and within what hospitals could handle

    I think we need to study what we did right and wrong and learn from i t

    Also mink breeders may have a different perspective

    We are, if i remember right, number 1 in tests per million citizens https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    443 dead per million citizens, 58 887 cases per million
    Last edited by Xarkan; 2021-08-30 at 06:04 PM.

  7. #76787
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    There are a countries that have done better but over all, we kept cases lowish and within what hospitals could handle
    Well that's encouraging. Glad to hear it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So already President Biden has met with the governors of Louisiana and Mississippi and basically said "whatever you need, call me"

    And he said it with the head of FEMA in the room, so, no misunderstandings. The damage is apparently "catastrophic" so worse than we've heard, but supplies were already nearby and troops are on the way. Not sure what else he can do besides hand them a blank check.

  8. #76788
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-...ners/100419234

    Powell walks off an interview when asked about basic facts like, "Why do you think Smartmatic owns Dominion when that simply isn't a fact?"

    Returns

    Promises "we'll show the evidence", and that there's a national conspiracy from the local election level to the highest levels of the DoJ to steal the election.

    Lots of "They", and after many years of this we still don't have the foggiest clue who "they" actually are.

  9. #76789
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Promises "we'll show the evidence", and that there's a national conspiracy from the local election level to the highest levels of the DoJ to steal the election.
    It's like shooting fish in a barrel some days.

    1) Didn't Powell already go to court multiple times, therefore suggesting she already had evidence?
    2) "we'll show the evidence" I mean, there was a reporter right there. Seemed like a good time.
    3) Didn't Powell use "nobody should take me seriously" as a defense? In other words, didn't she waive any right to show evidence, by saying under oath she was making shit up?
    4) The idea that there was a national conspiracy involving the election officials of multiple red states that somehow had no leakers seems beyond unrealistic, as in "see reason #3"
    5) And of course the big one, why would anyone in Powell's position go on an interview with a hostile or even neutral media outlet? She had to know questions like "can you back up your claims" would be pretty standard in even an unbiased journalist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Murderous Insurrection Panel inches closer to saying in public "we want the records of any Republicans who helped put the Stop the Steal rally together, because we need to know if they were in on it".

    The public claim is "We are just gathering information at this point, and these unnamed elected officials who were promoting this rally might have sone".

    The implication is "We're getting your phone records, your email, and your social media contacts, so this would be a great time to decide if you want to spend more time with your family. We're even checking 4chan, that's how serious we are"

    And even as the Methinks He Doth Protest Too Much begins, I'l remind everyone everyone in the Party of Trump how much of a push was made for Clinton's emails, which as we all know were wiped like with a cloth, and how many times Clinton was dragged before the Benghazi hearings. And I also won't buy "How DARE you assume I was part of the murderous insurrection!" from anyone organizing and speaking at the rally whose goal was to overturn the election based on zero evidence other than Trump didn't win. They're probably not guilty (honestly, maybe one or two were tangentally involved, but these guys wouldn't be stupid enough to send a txt message "Hey Bob, how's that murderous insurrection we're planning going? Later Jersey Mikes") but they've burned enough credibility that they should absolutely be treated as suspects. Maybe next time they won't call for outright treason in public -- or at least get the evidence first.

    It is highly likely, duh, that any Republican whose records are being seized wil protest. And I might need @cubby or for that matter anyone else knowledgeable on the subject, but...I think, for example, your gmails techinically belong to Google, not you. If Google tells Congress "here are those records you asked for" I don't know what the Republicans can do about it. Other than hope they weren't sending dic pics in (ahem) compressed format.

  10. #76790
    @Breccia isn’t it weird how Gym Jordan suddenly remembers how many calls he had with Trump on Jan 6? And when… I wonder what jogged his memory.

  11. #76791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    isn’t it weird how Gym Jordan suddenly remembers how many calls he had with Trump on Jan 6?
    I'd love for the conversation to be both under oath and on camera.

    "Okay I called Trump, but I don't remember what I said."
    "As it turns out, we have the transcripts. Would you care to read them?"
    "...not really, no."

    Also I'm not sure about this raw story. Apparently five days ago Roger Stone was banned from GETTR, but nobody noticed because he complained on Gab. I can't find any major news source on this, and fucked if I'm opening either GETTR or Gab to check personally.

    If you were under the illusion that the new social media website GETTR set up by Mueller informant Steve Bannon and his criminal confederate Jason Miller does not engage in censorship perhaps you can explain why they just suspended my account. Bannon is a criminal whose indictment for stealing money will be renewed shortly in New York State. I hear the New York state prisons are particularly rough. Once Bannon is in prison Miller won't last week on the street.
    -- supposedly Roger Stone

    Hmm? Bannon and New York State? Is that a thing?

    (checks news)

    Hmm. I have We Build The Wall is broke, that's not it, but it is funny enough to quote.

    “It might be expensive and few of us have the assets right now to cover a retainer,” Kobach said. “So we are willing to let counsel step aside but we would like a fairly generous bit of time to find local counsel and also perhaps have a picture of what it involves.”

    Crane rejected that plea, saying “This case just keeps getting delayed and delayed; 90 days seems like a long time.” The judge added, “Finding a lawyer I don’t think is a big problem. I think finding a lawyer who is willing to risk not getting paid is probably the issue here.”
    Kobach is general counsel for We Build The Wall. Somehow, I imagine he was paid just fine. Also if he's general counsel shouldn't he be doing the work? What better use of his time than to act as their lawyer in court, when he's their lawyer? I have to admit, "we're too broke to fight a lawsuit" is an interesting defense, and probably stupid, since you'd have to submit your finances under oath to prove it.

    Or, they could hire Giuliani. I understand he works without being paid all the time.

    But that wasn't about Bannon or NYState. Lemme keep looking.

    (checks again)

    I have NYState goes after Ken Kurson, former New York Observer editor pardoned by Trump on Trump's last day of office, for cyberstalking.

    Kurson used multiple aliases to file false complaints about two of the victims with their employer, post false negative reviews about one victim's professional conduct on crowd-sourced review websites and made unsolicited contact with two of the victims.
    If Kurson's name sounds familiar, it's probably that pardon, or the fact that the New York Observer was owned by Kushner.

    That story seems to have come up because Trump also pardoned Bannon for federal fraud for We Build The Wall...huh...full circle there. But that's still not it.

    (keeps checking)

    Ah, there it is. It's an older code, but it checks out. Apparently there's been an investigation since, like, February or March or something. Bannon and his GoFundMe account have apparently already been subpoena'd. And apparently, the federal AGs might not be able to bring charges due to a federal pardon, but nothing stops them from handing evidence directly to NY with stickers of smiley faces on the good pages.

    I can't find anything that says the case has been dropped. I can find a late May article where a federal judge in a now-dismissed federal case (pardon) said Bannon took $1 million from the GoFundYourself and kept it for himself. I don't want to judge by appearances, except for fatass Trump who now needs a backhoe to get off the toilet, but I don't get the impression Bannon did much manual labor putting the Wall together, which means his expenses, to be justified, will need to come from some other specific, direct application of skill -- or else just be standard criminal fraud.

    "He could have been the group's fundraiser."

    Yeah the group just admitted they're broke. You don't pay someone $1 million to raise funds, go broke, and do nothing about it. Well, not if you're honest. Also Bannon himself called We Build The Wall a volunteer organization, so taking a million for any reason would be a problem.

    Bannon can repay the money, but there's the issue with prison time. In federal court, the charges he faced but Trump pardoned could have been 20 years in federal prison. Now he faces New York prisons. Huh. I wonder how rough those are.

  12. #76792
    @Endus

    I forget but I think it was you who posted this
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmVkJvieaOA

    If so, thank you, we really need to start posting it every time people start interacting with the pigeons.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  13. #76793
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    @Breccia isn’t it weird how Gym Jordan suddenly remembers how many calls he had with Trump on Jan 6? And when… I wonder what jogged his memory.
    It is probably because of this: https://www.opensecrets.org/news/202...l-involvement/

    These same organizers have also admitted on January 8th that they worked with 3 congressional representatives. He met with Andy Biggs, Paul Gosar, and Mo Brooks. Not surprising they are all trying to do anything they can to stop the investigation into them.

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...dc/6603721002/

  14. #76794
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    It is probably because of this: https://www.opensecrets.org/news/202...l-involvement/

    These same organizers have also admitted on January 8th that they worked with 3 congressional representatives. He met with Andy Biggs, Paul Gosar, and Mo Brooks. Not surprising they are all trying to do anything they can to stop the investigation into them.

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...dc/6603721002/
    It’s because the commission is about to have those records and reveal the info. He’s trying to get ahead of them.

  15. #76795
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    It’s because the commission is about to have those records and reveal the info. He’s trying to get ahead of them.
    Hopefully it doesn't help him, or those other 3. Because they all deserve to be in fucking prison. Will they go there? Probably not.

  16. #76796
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Hopefully it doesn't help him, or those other 3. Because they all deserve to be in fucking prison. Will they go there? Probably not.
    The full list of Republicans they’re seeking records of is fun. Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Jim Jordan, Andy Biggs, Paul Gosar, Mo Brooks, Madison Cawthorn, Matt Gaetz, Louie Gohmert, Jody Hice, and Scott Perry. Per Kyle Griffin.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/kylegriff...43640597204997

  17. #76797
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The full list of Republicans they’re seeking records of is fun. Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Jim Jordan, Andy Biggs, Paul Gosar, Mo Brooks, Madison Cawthorn, Matt Gaetz, Louie Gohmert, Jody Hice, and Scott Perry. Per Kyle Griffin.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/kylegriff...43640597204997
    Not Rand Paul, huh? Guess he's just a regular idiot, not a seditionist one.

  18. #76798
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Not Rand Paul, huh? Guess he's just a regular idiot, not a seditionist one.
    The term is Libertarian. Be nice.

  19. #76799
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    Heh.

    It seems the right is trying the tactic "Biden is driving the world towards nuclear war" probably because, well, they're out of legitimate gripes.

    The opinion page in question basically yells "But North Korea!" and then cites a bunch of...Hollywood movies.

    They also mention the Doomsday Clock, which is the real reason I'm posting here. The current setting, 100 seconds to midnight, was set Jan 27th. Because COVID. It has not moved since.

    Well, that's not true. It didn't change Jan 27th, it stayed the same Jan 27th. It changed three times in Trump's tenure, each time Trump was cited by name, and because of his actions we're now closer to midnight than the Doomsday Clock has ever been -- and that includes the Reagan years. And before anyone says anything, it dropped twice in Obama's tenure but those were climate concerns globally -- which Obama was trying to prevent.

    It's not exactly Godwin's Law, but if you are left with "But Mad Max!" and blame someone objectively not at fault, it might be time to realize you've picked the wrong side.

  20. #76800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    @Endus

    I forget but I think it was you who posted this
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmVkJvieaOA

    If so, thank you, we really need to start posting it every time people start interacting with the pigeons.
    I probably wasn't the first because they've been putting out new videos every month or two for a while now in that series, but I did post one earlier today.

    While that particular video was particularly relevant where I dropped it, the others in the series are all really solid.


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