1. #78701
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Trump set records for Republican turnout in 2016 and 2020. Especially 2020, where he added more than 11 million Republican votes over his previous record-setting 2016 turnout.

    You'll excuse us if we consider him a threat.
    A threat, probably sure. Id argue he would be less of a threat then Desantis. Because Trump already lost once. You have two choices here. If trump runs, he already lost. If trump doesent he is gona back Desantis anyway. The path where he fights with Desantis while being an Ex loser himself seems more hopeful. Its not about Trump not being shit. Just best possible position.

  2. #78702
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    81,973
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    A threat, probably sure. Id argue he would be less of a threat then Desantis. Because Trump already lost once. You have two choices here. If trump runs, he already lost. If trump doesent he is gona back Desantis anyway. The path where he fights with Desantis while being an Ex loser himself seems more hopeful. Its not about Trump not being shit. Just best possible position.
    Like, I get why people want to believe Trump won't win, but we said the same stupid things in 2016.


  3. #78703
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    phasing...
    Posts
    26,852
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    A threat, probably sure. Id argue he would be less of a threat then Desantis. Because Trump already lost once. You have two choices here. If trump runs, he already lost. If trump doesent he is gona back Desantis anyway. The path where he fights with Desantis while being an Ex loser himself seems more hopeful. Its not about Trump not being shit. Just best possible position.
    I don’t know if trump will back desantis, especially if the sort of “break up” between trump and the gop is a short, swift thing where they just sort of drop him and he goes on to start calling them all RINOs and puppets of George Soros or whatever.

    Now to be clear I also don’t think trump’s chances are very high were he to run again. He’s mired in legal battles and he already lost once; things that aren’t appealing to independent voters. It would also probably serve to galvanize any democrat voters who are less than enthused about Biden to go out and vote because they know he’s still a thousand times better than a return to trump.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  4. #78704
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    We probably want someone other than trump to run…without Trump’s approval (which, if he’s not running, is extremely likely,) with him slinging mud at them the entire time, or telling his followers to write him in as a candidate in opposition to the dem/gop nominees.

    Without the support of Trump’s lunatics, a GOP nominee very likely can’t win.
    Thats the thing, if Trump willingly doesent run, hes not gona throw mud at anyone. If he run, hes gona throw mud. There is no division in the republican party if trump doesent run. I dont know where you guys have this idea. The only time there is Mud and division is if he is forced not to run or if he runs and has an opposition in Desantis. So no, you dont want under any circumstances Trump to let other republicans convince him not to run and be nice and back them. You want trump to still think hes the fucking king and has a god given right to roll over the entire party to be president again. I know you guys have a dream where he runs independent, but its not happening. Id be way more scared of a Desentis with his current bs popularity and a thumbs up from trump.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Like, I get why people want to believe Trump won't win, but we said the same stupid things in 2016.
    He already lost once lol. If you think trump will win 2024, then its fucking guarantee Desantis wins too. Desantis can still draw the base of trump to his side, if trump doesent run and support him. Im not sure why anyone wants Trump to listen to other republicans, other republicans want to win without trump. Trump wants to win for trump. Id rather face a trump that lost some popularity, Desantis is gaining in popularity. Its not that we cant believe he could win. Its that hes already lost and is less likely to have the unified support he once had.
    Last edited by minteK917; 2022-07-03 at 09:04 PM.

  5. #78705
    The Lightbringer D Luniz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    The Coastal Plaguelands
    Posts
    3,061
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I don’t know if trump will back desantis, especially if the sort of “break up” between trump and the gop is a short, swift thing where they just sort of drop him and he goes on to start calling them all RINOs and puppets of George Soros or whatever.

    Now to be clear I also don’t think trump’s chances are very high were he to run again. He’s mired in legal battles and he already lost once; things that aren’t appealing to independent voters. It would also probably serve to galvanize any democrat voters who are less than enthused about Biden to go out and vote because they know he’s still a thousand times better than a return to trump.
    the legal battles wont matter, the people that would vote for him already think anything they don't like is fake news, government overreach, deep state.
    Hell, they call the people arrested for Jan 6th "political prisoners"

    at this point, if Trump had a heartattack they'd probably blame Biden/Pelosi/Soros and storm the capital again
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  6. #78706
    Quote Originally Posted by D Luniz View Post
    the legal battles wont matter, the people that would vote for him already think anything they don't like is fake news, government overreach, deep state.
    Hell, they call the people arrested for Jan 6th "political prisoners"

    at this point, if Trump had a heartattack they'd probably blame Biden/Pelosi/Soros and storm the capital again
    Yes and the republican party needs these people. Trump being nice to the republican party and bowing out like they want. Is the last fucking thing you want. You aint getting ride of these people. They will do what god emperor tells them. You want Trump to be at odds as much as possible with republican party. Which is why, anybody thinking he shouldnt run, is either missguided or simply a republican that can see the wind turn and want Desantis to run with Trump support. Which is the worse fucking scenario.

  7. #78707
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    A better comparison isn't to "votes cast", but to "theoretical voting population". 2020 saw a massive jump in voter turnout, too; from 54.8% in 2016 to 62% in 2020, the only election since 1936 with a higher turnout was 1960; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_...tial_elections

    If we use the voting-age population from that same page, 74.2m for Trump was 28.8% of the voter base.
    Romney's 60.9m was 25.6%.
    Bush's best year was 2004 rather than the tight contest with Gore; he got 62.0m, so 28.2% of the total voting-age population that year. Still short of Trump in 2020.

    Seriously, Trump is one of the most wildly popular Republican Presidents in history. Yes, he's an enormous unfunny clown, but don't let that make you overlook the data. There, we've accounted for population growth, and for overall voter turnout. Trump's the best the Republicans have done since Reagan in '84, in terms of turnout. And Reagan took every State but Minnesota and DC.
    But then is Biden the Dem messiah if we use his metric? Biden got 31.5% of the VAP. Better than Obama’s 30.2% in 2008. Or Clinton’s in 24% in 1996. I don’t think anyone thinks of Biden in that way.

    Trump certainly has a high approval rating by GOP voters but I don’t think that really translates into popularity. He got the racist couch potato vote in 2020 and still did no better than any GOP candidate. I’m not 100% sure what drives voter turnout in the US but two of the highest recent turnouts involved remarkable crises (2008, 2020). Reagan didn’t have that in 1984 and he ate the other guys lunch. That’s actual popularity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    He already lost once lol. If you think trump will win 2024, then its fucking guarantee Desantis wins too. Desantis can still draw the base of trump to his side, if trump doesent run and support him.
    Problem with DeSantis is that he doesn’t have Trump’s sense of showmanship. I would hesitate to say Trump is charismatic but he at least can play to people’s worst impulses better than most. DeSantis also has a public record and it’s shit. Sure he’s willing to pass dog whistle laws but they don’t really do anything. The whole fight against Disney is a good example of him trying to stunt and fucking it up entirely.

  8. #78708
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Thats the thing, if Trump willingly doesent run
    Buddy, let me stop you right there. Trump is too stubborn and egotistic and narcissistic to willingly choose not to run.

  9. #78709
    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    Buddy, let me stop you right there. Trump is too stubborn and egotistic and narcissistic to willingly choose not to run.
    His ego demands that he runs. He also wasn’t willing to do the work as President. It’s easier to grift donations and then not run.

  10. #78710
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Problem with DeSantis is that he doesn’t have Trump’s sense of showmanship.
    Not only that, but a new survey shows him currently behind Harris. How does someone even do that? No one likes Harris lol

  11. #78711
    If Trump ran as an independent it would be the greatest help to democracy the world has ever seen.

  12. #78712
    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    Buddy, let me stop you right there. Trump is too stubborn and egotistic and narcissistic to willingly choose not to run.
    Oh i know, my point was that this is actually useful to some degree. Since Trump will go against the wishes of the party, he only cares about himself, a trump that actually put the party first would be way more dangerous then anything. A trump that has 0 conflict with the party, has a greater chance to get the republican the presidency.

    My arguement was against people here saying it was a great thing if the republicans could convince trump to not run willingly. No, that would be terrible if he was giving his full support to who ever they pick instead. You want the republican to fucking kick him by force, then they are fucked. So thats unlikely, second best option they fight him, then shrivel like wimps and let him run the show again and probably lose again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    If Trump ran as an independent it would be the greatest help to democracy the world has ever seen.
    He would never do that, no chance. Hes an egomaniac, but still wants to win. He has enough of a base where he knows he can go in and force himself as the candidate of the republican party and not supporting him is absolutely a blow to the party if he does.
    Last edited by minteK917; 2022-07-04 at 01:49 AM.

  13. #78713
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    phasing...
    Posts
    26,852
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Oh i know, my point was that this is actually useful to some degree. Since Trump will go against the wishes of the party, he only cares about himself, a trump that actually put the party first would be way more dangerous then anything. A trump that has 0 conflict with the party, has a greater chance to get the republican the presidency.

    My arguement was against people here saying it was a great thing if the republicans could convince trump to not run willingly. No, that would be terrible if he was giving his full support to who ever they pick instead. You want the republican to fucking kick him by force, then they are fucked. So thats unlikely, second best option they fight him, then shrivel like wimps and let him run the show again and probably lose again.

    - - - Updated - - -



    He would never do that, no chance. Hes an egomaniac, but still wants to win. He has enough of a base where he knows he can go in and force himself as the candidate of the republican party and not supporting him is absolutely a blow to the party if he does.
    Trump has bought into his own con so much he might actually believe he could run as an independent and win.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  14. #78714
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Trump has bought into his own con so much he might actually believe he could run as an independent and win.
    I think thats just wishful thinking and the republican party would 180 and suck his dick long before this ever happens. They are trying to use this time where his popularity waned, to smooth him into the idea of not running, but if he pull anything like that they will all fall in line faster then you can imagine. Nobody should cheer for the republican to succeed into making Trump not an egomaniac enemy and support the party. Nothing good will come out of that unless you want the republican party to be even more dangerous and fucking get away with even more political power in the near future. You should want trump to shit all over the party again, while still running with the R next to his name. The best but impossible outcome, is him not being able to run with an R next to his name and shit all over the party. But republican arent that dumb, they know that too.

  15. #78715
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    41,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    If Trump ran as an independent it would be the greatest help to democracy the world has ever seen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I want to see Trump run as an independent.
    The question isn't what would happen -- the split between the Party of Trump and the classic Republicans would cause both to lose. It's how Clinton got elected.

    The question is, how the split would end up. We'd finally get a percent breakdown of who Trump calls RINOS, and actual RINOS.

  16. #78716
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    19,563
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Like, I get why people want to believe Trump won't win, but we said the same stupid things in 2016.
    The difference is he's already lost. Just call him a loser.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #78717
    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    Buddy, let me stop you right there. Trump is too stubborn and egotistic and narcissistic to willingly choose not to run.
    I think there is an even bigger and more pressing reason for Trump to run.

    Its his best protecting against the lawsuits against him.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  18. #78718

    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    The difference is he's already lost. Just call him a loser.
    It depends what kind of humor you enjoy more. Trump is boisterous amusing and slap stick while biden is more a tragic comedy. Both have their moments.

    Personally I hope Jeb Bush runs again. He tried to save us but we rejected him.

  19. #78719
    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    Personally I hope Jeb Bush runs again. He tried to save us but we rejected him.
    Yep. He's presidential material.

  20. #78720
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    41,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Its his best protecting against the lawsuits against him.
    Maybe.

    But the people suing and/or prosecuting him likely know this. I have every faith that my employer, NYState, is vindictive enough to announce forced asset siezures and raids during Trump's 2024 announcement.

    I also disagree with @fwc577 in that, yes Trump is that insane, but also, he has a long habit of running from failures he sees on the horizon. He won't run if he knows he'll lose -- he'll perch on his golden throne in Florida and get Rep and Senator hopefuls to come kiss the ring. Someone with that many years playing cosplay mafia boss won't see being the Grand Poo as being a loss or a failure.

    "Don't you mean Grand Poobah?"

    Not in this case, no.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    Personally I hope Jeb Bush runs again. He tried to save us but we rejected him.
    If you are being serious and not sarcastic, why Jeb and not Kasich?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •