1. #78741
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    So... nothing like Madison Cawthorn.
    Hey, they were both young folk doing their best by serving their country. That takes gumption. At the age of 26, I was wasting my time reading comics and viewing pornography through a series of tubes.

    Their paths diverge somewhat after getting elected. Kasich managed to cover up any of his cousin-groping by passing legislation. He didn’t have Newt Gingrich to show him the Great Shining Path of Being Loud On TV While Being An Asshole To Your Fellow Legislators.

  2. #78742
    Banned cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I just hope Biden doesn't seek a second term personally. He's not popular enough and besides he's just too old. America needs a symbolic kick in the ass in more ways than one and it's not the perpetually centrist nearly 90 years old (by the time his second term would end) candidate that will give it such a thing. Him deciding to not run again would force the Democrats to also get off their butts and find someone else.
    I hope he does not as well. Harris would be an interesting choice - the diversity would be fantastic. I'm scared about the ongoings in her VP office and how that will affect a national campaign.

    But it will be one of those two, almost guaranteed.

    And on the other side, it's going to be one of three people - not for sure of course, but I would bet some money on it now. Trump, DeSantis, or that asshat Senator from Missouri, Josh Hawley. Look for Nikki Hayley to be the VP slot. If someone made me bet today, I would say the 2024 GQP Presidential ticket would be DeSantis/Hayley.

  3. #78743
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    And on the other side, it's going to be one of three people - not for sure of course, but I would bet some money on it now. Trump, DeSantis, or that asshat Senator from Missouri, Josh Hawley. Look for Nikki Hayley to be the VP slot. If someone made me bet today, I would say the 2024 GQP Presidential ticket would be DeSantis/Hayley.
    Hmm...you may be spot on. However I think Haley doesn't want to play 2nd fiddle.
    Too early to tell.

  4. #78744
    Old God PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Hmm...you may be spot on. However I think Haley doesn't want to play 2nd fiddle.
    Too early to tell.
    An awful lot of VP picks were Presidential candidates in the same election cycle before the pool was narrowed down.
    R.I.P. Democracy


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    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  5. #78745
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Giuliani, Graham, and Eastman subpoena'd by Georgia grand jury.

    I'm pretty sure they will be called to testify on their direct actions contacting Georgia officials, so there will be no Executive Time, no lawyer-client privilege. You can't claim to be working on WH stuff when working on a re-election campaign. Graham was never part of Trump's Cabinet anyhow. And even if Eastman and Giuliani were Trump's lawyers, they can't claim confidentiality about what they said with Georgia officials...and more importantly, they can't claim confidentiality if they're accused of conspiring anyhow. I'll let @cubby correct me if I'm wrong.

    In addition to Giuliani, Graham and Eastman, who helped develop the legal case for overturning the 2020 election, podcast host Jacki Pick Deason and campaign legal advisers Kenneth Chesebro, Jenna Ellis and Cleta Mitchell also received subpoenas.

    The grand jury is interested in hearing from Giuliani, it said in its subpoena to him, because he was “a lead attorney for the Trump Campaign’s legal efforts seeking to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.”

    The subpoena notes a December 2020 Georgia state Senate hearing that Giuliani and others attended in which a video was offered, among other evidence, claiming to show “suitcases” of illegal ballots being handled by election workers, which was later debunked by the Georgia secretary of state’s office.

    “Additionally, the Witness possesses unique knowledge concerning communications between himself, former President Trump, the Trump Campaign, and other known and unknown individuals involved in the multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere,” the subpoena notes.

    The Georgia state Senate hearing where the debunked video was offered was also noted in Ellis’ and Deason’s subpoenas.

    In the grand jury’s subpoena to Graham, they cited that Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensberger (R) and his staff had received at least two phone calls from the senator following the 2020 election.

    “During the telephone calls, the Witness questioned Secretary Raffensperger and his staff about reexamining certain absentee ballots cast in Georgia in order to explore the possibility of a more favorable outcome for former President Donald Trump,” the subpoena says, accusing Graham of making false voter fraud allegations in Georgia.

    In the subpoena for Eastman, it noted that the conservative lawyer had been involved in a “fake elector” scheme aimed at overturning President Biden’s victory in the state.

    The subpoena for Chesebro also cites his involvement in a fake elector scheme in the state in which he worked with the Georgia Republican Party’s leadership on a plan where 16 people who were not authorized to cast the Electoral College votes would have done so anyway in mid-December.

    The subpoena for Mitchell says that in early January “former President Donald Trump, and other individuals associated with the Trump Campaign made a telephone call to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger and members of his staff. During the telephone call, the Witness and others made allegations of widespread voter fraud in the November 2020 election in Georgia and pressured Secretary Raffensperger to take action in his official capacity to investigate unfounded claims of fraud.”
    Hmm. Graham's wife is going to have some free time.

  6. #78746
    It really is disappointing how long this shit takes. Its been almost 2 years and it feels like these investigations are still barely touching on the actual people involved.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  7. #78747
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    It really is disappointing how long this shit takes. Its been almost 2 years and it feels like these investigations are still barely touching on the actual people involved.
    State sanctioned execution squads are still busy handling traffic infractions. Priorities man!

  8. #78748
    Trump endorsed candidate for PA governor isn't feeling the love from other Republicans;

    A group of Pennsylvania Republicans threw their support behind Democratic Attorney General Josh Shapiro’s gubernatorial bid on Wednesday, going against their party’s gubernatorial nominee and state Sen. Doug Mastriano (R).

    The group of Republicans hailed Shapiro while attacking Mastriano as an extremist and threat to the rule of law.

    The endorsements represent a direct hit against Mastriano, who has centered much of his campaign around the unsubstantiated claims of widespread voter fraud in 2020. Despite an effort from some Pennsylvania Republicans to block him from the nomination, Matsriano defeated a crowded field of other GOP gubernatorial candidates, including former Rep. Lou Barletta (R-Pa.), in May. Mastriano’s campaign was given a boost from Trump’s endorsement ahead of Primary Day.

  9. #78749
    I think the past few years have pushed me further to the left, if only because the Republicans are batshit crazy.

  10. #78750
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Trump endorsed candidate for PA governor isn't feeling the love from other Republicans;

    A group of Pennsylvania Republicans threw their support behind Democratic Attorney General Josh Shapiro’s gubernatorial bid on Wednesday, going against their party’s gubernatorial nominee and state Sen. Doug Mastriano (R).

    The group of Republicans hailed Shapiro while attacking Mastriano as an extremist and threat to the rule of law.

    The endorsements represent a direct hit against Mastriano, who has centered much of his campaign around the unsubstantiated claims of widespread voter fraud in 2020. Despite an effort from some Pennsylvania Republicans to block him from the nomination, Matsriano defeated a crowded field of other GOP gubernatorial candidates, including former Rep. Lou Barletta (R-Pa.), in May. Mastriano’s campaign was given a boost from Trump’s endorsement ahead of Primary Day.
    A good highlight for the struggle between the traditional Republican and the new Trumpists. They might not want the crazies but the base, which they themselves cultivated, are all in on bat shit insane.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  11. #78751
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    It really is disappointing how long this shit takes. Its been almost 2 years and it feels like these investigations are still barely touching on the actual people involved.
    If you’re going to indict a former sitting president you gotta make damn sure you’ve dotted all your i’s and crossed all your t’s.

    I mean, people speak of how “emboldening” it would be to trump and his cronies if he weren’t prosecuted. And that would certainly be bad. But equally bad would be if he was prosecuted… and then found innocent because the prosecution tried to rush it. That would basically be a legitimization of what he tried to pull.

    I say load as many rounds of ammunition against that fucker as possible. It’s not like the testimony coming out against him is making things any better for him.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  12. #78752
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    If you’re going to indict a former sitting president you gotta make damn sure you’ve dotted all your i’s and crossed all your t’s.
    That statement is, literally, a description of the corruption of both the systems of justice and governance in your country.

    It's not normal. It's not defensible. Just stating that out loud should be shocking and horrifying that politicians have that kind of influence and power, that they can skate by on committing crimes because of their position and power.

    Literally; that's just corruption. That's what corruption is. That Trump and co may not be prosecuted because of how deeply and incontrovertibly corrupt the American system of governance and justice currently are.

    I mean, people speak of how “emboldening” it would be to trump and his cronies if he weren’t prosecuted. And that would certainly be bad. But equally bad would be if he was prosecuted… and then found innocent because the prosecution tried to rush it. That would basically be a legitimization of what he tried to pull.
    1> No courts rule anyone "innocent".
    2>Double jeopardy is an issue, but that's a prosecutorial issue that shouldn't be any different based on the individual being prosecuted. If there are differentials there, again, you're describing corruption in the justice system and, again, that's not normal.


  13. #78753
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That statement is, literally, a description of the corruption of both the systems of justice and governance in your country.

    It's not normal. It's not defensible. Just stating that out loud should be shocking and horrifying that politicians have that kind of influence and power, that they can skate by on committing crimes because of their position and power.

    Literally; that's just corruption. That's what corruption is. That Trump and co may not be prosecuted because of how deeply and incontrovertibly corrupt the American system of governance and justice currently are.



    1> No courts rule anyone "innocent".
    2>Double jeopardy is an issue, but that's a prosecutorial issue that shouldn't be any different based on the individual being prosecuted. If there are differentials there, again, you're describing corruption in the justice system and, again, that's not normal.
    No shit the system is corrupt but In a case as important as this the prosecutors have to make sure they build the best case they can before they charge, because the effects of a not guilty verdict would be extreme.

    This isn't a case of someone going 5 over the speed limit where if the prosecutors fuck up it's not a big deal for the country.

  14. #78754
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That statement is, literally, a description of the corruption of both the systems of justice and governance in your country.

    It's not normal. It's not defensible. Just stating that out loud should be shocking and horrifying that politicians have that kind of influence and power, that they can skate by on committing crimes because of their position and power.

    Literally; that's just corruption. That's what corruption is. That Trump and co may not be prosecuted because of how deeply and incontrovertibly corrupt the American system of governance and justice currently are.



    1> No courts rule anyone "innocent".
    2>Double jeopardy is an issue, but that's a prosecutorial issue that shouldn't be any different based on the individual being prosecuted. If there are differentials there, again, you're describing corruption in the justice system and, again, that's not normal.
    Yeah of course.

    But you can’t try and indict a president based on how you “think it should work,” if you want to succeed you have to work in the realm of how things DO work. And, clearly, the various investigative bodies pursuing this thing… or these things, rather, think there’s merit to pursuing it, and that it’s not some lost cause.

    And regardless of whether he’s declared “innocent,” any failure of conviction or declaration of him being liable is the exact same thing to his followers- a legitimization of what he did. Right now the January 6th insurrection and Trump’s various attempts to influence state electors are a very… touchy subject for them. Even the most adamant right-wing nuts around here won’t broach them and will ignore when they’re mentioned, because even they know they don’t have a foot to stand on and it makes them and their guy look awful. But some failure to convict on those? Suddenly it becomes a matter of “hah, all that january 6th stuff was LEGAL! You can’t say nothing no more!”

    Which… who cares what they think, sure. But repeat that lie enough times and independents start believing it, as well as democrats. Look at the smear campaign against Hillary.

    And again, you imploring that “that’s what a broker system is, it shouldn’t BE that way!” means… nothing. The system isn’t going to change over the course of this event, so you deal with it as it is, or you don’t do it at all. There is no third option, no matter how much one might declare that there “should be,” and declaring it won’t make it so regardless.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  15. #78755
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Graham announces intent to fight subpoenas, on the grounds that he's a Republican and therefore doesn't believe in law and order applied to old white men.

    Okay, that's not what he said, just the underlying message. He claims it's a WITCH HUNT which is an odd thing to say when your lawyers claim you're not a suspect, just a witness.

    If Graham is fighting the order to testify as a witness then I'm less inclined to believe he is one. We know he called Georgia officials. I'm guessing they recorded the call on their end. He better *ahem* get his story straight.

  16. #78756
    Quote Originally Posted by CastletonSnob View Post
    I think the past few years have pushed me further to the left, if only because the Republicans are batshit crazy.
    I've been pushed further right, personally, with all the batshit crazy progressives out there making ridiculous demands. I'm sitting pretty comfortably center-left these days.

    I know what you mean, though. Regardless of my...feelings about the left overall the Republican party needs to be stopped as soon as possible because they're starting to do some very scary things.

  17. #78757
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmirrors View Post
    I've been pushed further right, personally, with all the batshit crazy progressives out there making ridiculous demands. I'm sitting pretty comfortably center-left these days.
    Crazy-ass demands like "maybe don't be an abusive dickweasel to innocent people" or "maybe people should be able to live a decent life with basic comforts".

    Such extreeeeme views.


  18. #78758
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Crazy-ass demands like "maybe don't be an abusive dickweasel to innocent people" or "maybe people should be able to live a decent life with basic comforts".

    Such extreeeeme views.
    "LGBTQ+ are people" is also pretty extreme too you know.

  19. #78759
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    "LGBTQ+ are people" is also pretty extreme too you know.
    Well, that was in the "don't be an abusive dickweasel" bit, technically.

    Just real tired of being told that ideas like "maybe workers should share in the profits from their labor" is "SUPER RADICAL" but "some elite figure gets to take all the profits off the labor of the people he enslaves employs* so he can buy a fourth megayacht so his main megayacht's helicopter can have its own megayacht as a helipad while his full-time staff have to turn to government support to supplement their starvation-level wages" is somehow just totes normal and reasonable.

    *it's different because there's no obligation to pay for upkeep/housing


  20. #78760
    Thank you for perfectly demonstrating why so many people reject the messaging from progressives and why progressives will never hold any real power.
    Take care.

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