Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

https://www.salon.com/2022/07/20/nev...y-that-i-lost/

ELECTION FRAUD!

Failed far-right Nevada Republican gubernatorial candidate Joey Gilbert filed a lawsuit seeking to overturn his primary defeat, citing an "analysis" that found his loss to be a "mathematical impossibility" even after a recount he requested confirmed the results.

Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo last month defeated Gilbert, who attended former President Donald Trump's Jan. 6 rally ahead of the Capitol riot, by double-digits, 38-27. But Gilbert, a voter fraud conspiracy theorist, refused to concede the race.

Gilbert on Friday filed a lawsuit on Friday in Clark County seeking to overturn his loss. The suit claims that Lombardo's win is a "mathematical impossibility." Once the results are "statistically corrected," said a copy of the complaint obtained by The Nevada Independent, will show "with irrefutable geometric finality" that Gilbert won by more than 55,000 votes.

Nevada counties already completed a recount sought by Gilbert, which confirmed that he lost to Lombardo by more than 20,000 votes.

IRREFUTABLE GEOMETRIC FINALITY! Whatever the fuck that means. But I guess he's got proof -

The lawsuit cites an analysis by an "expert mathematician" to claim that thousands of Gilbert votes were "drawn illegally" into Gov. Steve Sisolak's pool of voters in the Democratic primary and, once "corrected," would show that Gilbert defeated Lombardo by more than 50,000 votes.

Oh man, an expert? Who is this guy/gal?!

The "expert mathematician" cited by Gilbert is infamous election conspiracy theorist Edward Solomon, who falsely claimed to have found evidence that the 2020 presidential election was rigged using an algorithm — a claim repeatedly debunked by expert fact-checkers, who noted that Solomon's claims show a "basic misunderstanding of how vote counts work."

Hrm...but who is Solomon?

Dominion Voting Systems, the voting tech company at the heart of one of Trumpworld's debunked conspiracy theories, said in a lawsuit against right-wing network OAN that Solomon is a "convicted drug dealer who never graduated college and whose current job was setting up swing sets in Long Island, New York.

So...not an "expert mathematician" or even a mathematician at all.

"Joey Gilbert rightfully won the primary with 100% certainty," Robert Beadles, a cryptocurrency millionaire who funded Gilbert's recount, wrote on his website. "It's simple; we prove with mathematical certainty Joey Gilbert is the winner of the primary gubernatorial race and that he had over 55,000 votes taken from him. It's a slam dunk case. We'll post the suit, the exhibits, opinions, etc., as soon as the State publishes them."

But he has crypto backers!

[cubby]

https://www.salon.com/2022/07/20/nev...y-that-i-lost/

ELECTION FRAUD!



IRREFUTABLE GEOMETRIC FINALITY! Whatever the fuck that means. But I guess he's got proof -



Oh man, an expert? Who is this guy/gal?!



Hrm...but who is Solomon?



So...not an "expert mathematician" or even a mathematician at all.



But he has crypto backers!

This is the basis for the entire GQP election fraud conspiracy theory. And despite the ludicrousness of the entire ensemble, more than 60% of GQP voters believe the election was fraudulent.

[Edge-]

This is the basis for the entire GQP election fraud conspiracy theory. And despite the ludicrousness of the entire ensemble, more than 60% of GQP voters believe the election was fraudulent.

I mean yeah...because based on the past few elections Republicans are the ones who seem to most consistently engage in attempts at voter fraud. As always, they're just projecting what they're actually doing onto others.

[Breccia]

Hrm...but who is Solomon?

Well I actually have a math degree, bu...wait a minute, this feels reeeeeeeeeally familiar...

One America News' Christina Bobb interviewed the swing set installer, Ed Solomon, on January 27 in a segment about the 2020 election, which President Joe Biden had won nearly three months earlier.

In the interview, Solomon claimed that he conducted a mathematical analysis showing that the results in Fulton County, Georgia, "can only have been done by an algorithm." He added that the probability of Biden's victory in the county was "1 over 10 to an exponent so large there's not enough stars in the universe, there aren't enough atoms in the universe, to explain the number."

You're burying the lede.

Ah yes, there it is. That's the same "mathematician" pushing the same story.

Here is a FactCheck.org review of his original claim. Read it, it's hilarious. But quick version, not only did he go cherry-picking for results that matched his conclusion, he also burned the tree by saying "I got the info from a live feed during the election and it's gone now".

In other words, he lied.

Solomon's previous "work" is noted in the article, Edge- just didn't quote that part. But this furthers @cubby 's point. Trump cultists are hunting down "experts" with a C.V. filled with nonsense, to peddle their false fraud stories to a crowd that subsists on the mathematical parallel of feces.

Let w be the candidate's aggregate percentage. Then: w = zx + (1-z)y = (x+py)/(1+p), where p is the proportion of Mail-in to Election Day ballots in the precinct.

-- the lawsuit, in over 100 pages of equations

Now, show of hands everyone who knows what this guy is doing?

"Um, bulking up his paper with so much garbage that the teacher doesn't feel like reading it?"

Correct. And it could potentially be used to try to confuse a jury...kind of. I already summoned cubby so I'll just ask: when you bring a lawsuit like this, challenging the already-recounted results of an election (or anything else serious), will a jury look at 100 pages of scribbling and then just say "Fuck it, he's probably right"?

While he's doing that, that equation alone has told me what this fake-ass excuse for a mathematician is claiming: the percent in-person votes and percent mailed votes aren't the same percent.

Duh.

We already knew that. Different people vote remotely and that's already established.

Oh, and that bit about an "algorithm" implies an election computer was hacked or hooked into. Which...yeah, you're going to need more evidence than "w =/= p".

All in all, this just looks like yet another toddler having yet another tantrum. "I didn't lose! YOU CHEATED!" followed by shrilling, stamping their widdle feet, soiling themselves, then having a widdle nappie.

[gondrin]

IRREFUTABLE GEOMETRIC FINALITY!

Sounds like either something said on Star Trek trying to explain something that isn't possible or doesn't have a name for it OR a hipster 90s band name doing avantgarde music.

[Kaleredar]

https://www.salon.com/2022/07/20/nev...y-that-i-lost/

ELECTION FRAUD!



IRREFUTABLE GEOMETRIC FINALITY! Whatever the fuck that means. But I guess he's got proof -



Oh man, an expert? Who is this guy/gal?!



Hrm...but who is Solomon?



So...not an "expert mathematician" or even a mathematician at all.



But he has crypto backers!

You know what the great thing about these morons screaming and frothing about having their elections stolen from them is?


It doesn’t matter. They can’t complain their way into having won, no matter how hard they try. They aren’t forestalling anything, because they don’t hold any power. It’s quite literally a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[Huehuecoyotl]

You know what the great thing about these morons screaming and frothing about having their elections stolen from them is?


It doesn’t matter. They can’t complain their way into having won, no matter how hard they try. They aren’t forestalling anything, because they don’t hold any power. It’s quite literally a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

But when the Republicans DO cheat in the upcoming elections, and the Democrats point it out, the Republicans can point back to years of ignoring "legitimate" complaints to have their cherry picked election officials sign off on the results.

This just feels like ground work for the next stage of stealing your country from you, from where I'm sitting.

[Breccia]

It doesn’t matter. They can’t complain their way into having won, no matter how hard they try.

It's posing for the camera, trying to bring in the increasingly literal cult that is Trump supporters.

[Edge-]

https://wgntv.com/news/trump-pence-r...der-2024-runs/

Fuckin lol, Pence thinks he has a chance at a presidential run with the current Republican party.

I guess he keeps forgetting thousands of Republican rioters showed up to the Capitol building because they wanted to hang him.

[Breccia]

Fuckin lol, Pence thinks he has a chance at a presidential run with the current Republican party.

Bla bla Tia Carrere. He does, technically, have a chance.

By the way, did you intentionally post that Solomon "10 to the power of number of stars" story and Pence "I have a chance" in the same day? Because those two conflict pretty directly.

[cubby]

Well I actually have a math degree, bu...wait a minute, this feels reeeeeeeeeally familiar...





Ah yes, there it is. That's the same "mathematician" pushing the same story.

Here is a FactCheck.org review of his original claim. Read it, it's hilarious. But quick version, not only did he go cherry-picking for results that matched his conclusion, he also burned the tree by saying "I got the info from a live feed during the election and it's gone now".

In other words, he lied.

Solomon's previous "work" is noted in the article, Edge- just didn't quote that part. But this furthers @cubby 's point. Trump cultists are hunting down "experts" with a C.V. filled with nonsense, to peddle their false fraud stories to a crowd that subsists on the mathematical parallel of feces.


-- the lawsuit, in over 100 pages of equations

Now, show of hands everyone who knows what this guy is doing?

"Um, bulking up his paper with so much garbage that the teacher doesn't feel like reading it?"

Correct. And it could potentially be used to try to confuse a jury...kind of. I already summoned cubby so I'll just ask: when you bring a lawsuit like this, challenging the already-recounted results of an election (or anything else serious), will a jury look at 100 pages of scribbling and then just say "Fuck it, he's probably right"?

While he's doing that, that equation alone has told me what this fake-ass excuse for a mathematician is claiming: the percent in-person votes and percent mailed votes aren't the same percent.

Duh.

We already knew that. Different people vote remotely and that's already established.

Oh, and that bit about an "algorithm" implies an election computer was hacked or hooked into. Which...yeah, you're going to need more evidence than "w =/= p".

All in all, this just looks like yet another toddler having yet another tantrum. "I didn't lose! YOU CHEATED!" followed by shrilling, stamping their widdle feet, soiling themselves, then having a widdle nappie.

That's exactly what they would do - the jury would look at his "data" and try to remember (or worse, read) his testimony, hopelessly give up, and then essentially go with it because "I guess he was an expert". That's his only real hope of winning the suit.

Which is why the other side of the law suit would bring on an actual expert who would quickly and clearly eviscerate Solomon's "testimony". If I were on the defense, and funds were available, I would bring on three experts - white, black, and asian/hispanic. 1-3 being women.

Not that I think about these things of course....

[Breccia]

Which is why the other side of the law suit would bring on an actual expert who would quickly and clearly eviscerate Solomon's "testimony". If I were on the defense, and funds were available, I would bring on three experts

Actually on that. If the plaintiffs put Solomon on the stand, can the defendant bring up Solomon's lack of experience and his 2020 lies? Can they do that if they just try to submit Solomon's equations but not Solomon himself?

[cubby]

Actually on that. If the plaintiffs put Solomon on the stand, can the defendant bring up Solomon's lack of experience and his 2020 lies? Can they do that if they just try to submit Solomon's equations but not Solomon himself?

Yes - they can use everything and/or anything to impeach his testimony. Merely putting him on the stand would invoke having him established as an expert, and that would involve the plaintiffs running down his credentials. And if the plaintiffs could get through it with a straight face, the defense would eviscerate him on cross. And the defense would request he NOT be certified as an expert in statistical analysis.

This going to trial almost certainly means Solomon loses.

[Breccia]

This going to trial almost certainly means Solomon loses.

If anyone's watching, I am available for for destroying him. We can just cut Solomon in half. Wait, that sounds wrong.

On topic: what's got two thumbs, a leading head, and a subpoena? That's right, it's former lawyer Rudy Giuliani!

And yes, that's a NYTimes article so....yeah, quoting a lot of it.

A Georgia judge ordered Rudolph W. Giuliani to testify in Atlanta next month in an ongoing criminal investigation into election interference by former President Donald J. Trump and his advisers and allies, according to court filings released on Wednesday.

Some out-of-state witnesses in the case have gone to court to challenge subpoenas or other legal filings seeking to compel their testimony. But after Mr. Giuliani failed to show for a hearing last week in Manhattan

What a moron. He had the opportunity to block his own testimony and he didn't eve show up to argue in his own defense.

Incidentally, that July 13 appearance he didn't make was required by subpoena. Now he's being hunted down.

where the matter was to have been adjudicated, Judge Robert C. I. McBurney of the Superior Court of Fulton County ordered him to appear before a special grand jury in Atlanta on Aug. 9.

Mr. Giuliani, who spearheaded efforts to keep Mr. Trump in power as his personal lawyer, has emerged as a central figure in the Georgia criminal investigation into efforts to overturn Mr. Trump’s 2020 electoral loss in the state. Fani T. Willis, the prosecutor in Fulton County leading the investigation, has indicated that she is considering conspiracy or racketeering charges, which could take in a broad spectrum of people engaged in multiple efforts to sway the election results.

A special grand jury has been meeting regularly in Atlanta to hear testimony and review documents and videos that may shed light on the multipronged effort to put Georgia in Mr. Trump’s win column. Among the acts under consideration are an infamous postelection phone call that Mr. Trump made to Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, asking to “find” enough votes to secure his victory.

Mr. Giuliani appears to be of interest for a number of reasons, including his participation in a scheme to create slates of pro-Trump presidential electors in numerous states including Georgia. In court filings this week, it was revealed that all 16 pro-Trump electors in Georgia had been informed by the Fulton County District Attorney’s office that they could face charges.

Mr. Giuliani also appeared in person before two Georgia state legislative committees in December 2020, where he spent hours peddling false conspiracy theories about secret suitcases of Democratic ballots and corrupted voting machines. He told state legislators, “You cannot possibly certify Georgia in good faith.”

Right so...we all know about the press conferences, the court jester antics, and being fooled by Borat. Sitting on a committee hearing and saying, to them, in public, that there was election fraud when there wasn't and you had nothing to say it was, that's going to come up. Like, Exhibit A.

Probably the first thing that needs to be decided is, is there any lawyer-client privilege here. Not in what Giuliani said, no, that's already out there. But say it with me everyone: privilege does not extend to criminal acts.

Giuliani has often been called the direct link to Trump. If Trump ordered Giuliani to commit a crime, Giuliani will have two choices, both fatal.

1) Admit the truth, sink Trump, and probably be dragged into the street and lynched by a peaceful tour group.
2) Lie and take a figurative bullet for the client who's basically disowned him at this point.

Giuliani, like Bannon, cannot claim Executive Time. He was not a WH employee. Oh, and he wasn't a legislator either, so there's that gone, too. Giuliani has no choice left but to argue the merits of the case -- and good luck with that. The claims he made had failed almost every court case (save one I think) and got him effectively disbarred. This means, claiming "Some Guy On Twitter said it was true so I believed it" won't work. As the plaintiff in any of these cases, if he pushed forward without any evidence, and we already know he did, telling Georgia's government that there was fraud should be a real problem for him. Too much of what he did was way too public for him to play the denial game or "I don't remember". And pleading the 5th won't save him, for those same reasons.

Georgia is not going to give Giuliani any softballs or favors. He and Trump turned Georgia into a national circus, and the state is likely not forgiving on that. The question here is, can they find him guilty of a serious enough crime/give him a serious enough sentence, that he actually rolls over on Trump? Or will he be the next member of Team Trump going to jail on Trump's orders?

- - - Updated - - -

Well, with jury selection over, the Bannon case should start shortly. It'll be an interesting examination of--

"They rested their case."

...what?

"The prosecution has already rested their case. What did they need to say, anyhow? He was required to testify and didn't, he said he had privilege and he didn't. This is open and shut."

Um...what about the defense?

Bannon's lawyer Corcoran said she had worked for Democrats and made political donations to Democratic political candidates, and that she participated in a book group where most of the members had once worked for former California Rep. Henry Waxman.

"Do you ever discuss the political topics of the day?" Corcoran asked.

"To the best of my recollection ... the conversations cover a whole variety of topics. We try to start with the book and then it goes from there," Amerling said. "It's not unusual that we would talk about politics in some way or another."

"He's trying to pretend this is a political witch hunt. Because he has no useful defense, because he's objectively guilty. Obviously, the prosecution's witnesses disagreed, but it's not like Bannon has a choice. You don't get to ignore a subpoena just because you think you're innocent."

Bannon can't possibly be calling that many witnesses.

"The NPR article suggests he has a few days, tops."

What happens next?

"Well, for one, he goes to prison. Then, because he was invited to testify and didn't, he could be taken to the stand in chains. Preferably on camera."

[Hammerfest]

The state of things: Trumpists are pissed that Democrats aren't pissed that the Georgia Guidestones were bombed. "Why don't you care about this obviously irrelevant Cold War relic that details all of your secret evil plans for all to see??"

Many of us believe the reason why the Left aren't showing dismay at their destruction is because A) they've proven they (the American Left) have no emotional connection to monuments in general during 2020 and B) they were probably destroyed by those who believe in the ideas they (the stones) listed and didn't want them in the public eye anymore... gaining more and more attention.

[Edge-]

Many of us believe the reason why the Left aren't showing dismay at their destruction is because

Nobody gives a fuck about a random, quirky, weird, roadside attraction. Sometimes it's just that simple.

[Mekh]

B) they were probably destroyed by those who believe in the ideas they (the stones) listed and didn't want them in the public eye anymore... gaining more and more attention.

Because as we all know, the internet doesn't exist and nobody ever took a picture of them.

[Hammerfest]

Nobody gives a fuck about a random, quirky, weird, roadside attraction. Sometimes it's just that simple.

You're right. But that's not what the Georgia Guidestones are/were.

- - - Updated - - -

Because as we all know, the internet doesn't exist and nobody ever took a picture of them.

Right. The Georgia Guidestones ended up becoming a liability. People could point to them and say "this is their agenda." That's why I believe they were destroyed.

[Mekh]

Right. The Georgia Guidestones ended up becoming a liability. People could point to them and say "this is their agenda." That's why I believe they were destroyed.

They literally drove to Georgia to point at them, because nobody ever took a picture?

[Edge-]

You're right. But that's not what the Georgia Guidestones are/were.

To most of the internet, nobody had even heard about them before John Oliver did an episode on them. Even then, knowing some of the weird ass shit on there, it's still a random, quirky, weird roadside attraction. It's an interesting oddity, nothing more.

Y'all want to take it way more seriously that's on you.