Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Are they just realizing that these are probably actually unenforceable

No. They're just now admitting it. They always knew.

[postman1782]

Even if you could, Trump didn't. The mayor could remove a stop sign, but if he runs it first, he still gets a ticket.

Yep, people are claiming on tiktok that Trump could declassify anything he wanted to. And I just simply responded, that if he did, there would have to be a legit order to do so, that still doesn't mean he can just keep it in his fucking house.

[Edge-]

Man, the Republican buzzword for the day seems to be "stasi".

[postman1782]

Man, the Republican buzzword for the day seems to be "stasi".

Yep, I have seen them comparing the FBI to Brownshirts and other Nazi foot soldiers. Yet, the judge is a Trump appointee, his name is Bruce Reinhart. He was appointed to the Southern District of Florida by Trump in 2018. But what is REALLY FUNNY? Is that they are trying to claim that he is linked to Jeffrey Epstein, like Trump isn't LOL.


Literally on the Murdoch owned New York Post: https://nypost.com/2022/08/09/judge-...ffrey-epstein/

[Edge-]

https://newrepublic.com/article/1673...-defund-police

Will "DEFUND THE POLICE" be a losing campaign message for Republicans in this coming election like it apparently was for Democrats? We'll find out!

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...awyer-00050730

Seems like some updates -

Federal agents removed about a dozen boxes of materials from former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate and issued a warrant indicating the search pertained to possible violations surrounding classified information and the Presidential Records Act, a Trump lawyer confirmed to POLITICO on Tuesday.

News of the specifics of the search were first reported by The Wall Street Journal, which wrote that agents walked away with roughly 10 boxes of material after the Monday search.

Alright, mostly known but now "officially" confirmed.

Trump lawyer Christina Bobb fleshed out other details surrounding the case. She said that Florida magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart signed off on the warrant that allowed FBI agents to search the Trump residence in Florida. Agents searched multiple areas of the property, Bobb told POLITICO, but she could not verify where the materials were confiscated from. Lindsey Halligan, another Trump attorney, also confirmed to POLITICO she was present at Mar-a-Lago for the search.

That's nice that Trump's lawyer was present for this, then they can't complain that it was done in secret and without anyone from "Team Trump" present.

Trump is likely best positioned to provide the details his allies are asking for. He has access to not only the items federal agents were looking for on Monday, but also to what was taken from his property. His lawyers likely have a copy of the search warrant, though they won’t have access to the affidavit or other documents that are typically kept confidential until the case is resolved. Plus, Trump could speak to the nature of the potentially classified material, and whether he made an effort to declassify these items before leaving the White House.

So...the only person who can shed light on this for now is...Trump, who is not exactly the best source. lol

[Breccia]

That's nice that Trump's lawyer was present for this, then they can't complain that it was done in secret and without anyone from "Team Trump" present.

Wasn't Eric there?

[Edge-]

Wasn't Eric there?

Eric, or ERIC? And which ERIC?

[Breccia]

There's a bunch of updates, big surprise I know.

1) The DoJ has officially said this wasn't done on their direction.

Justice Department spokesperson Dena Iverson declined to comment on the search, including whether Garland had personally authorized it. White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said the West Wing first learned of the search from public media reports and the White House had not been briefed in the run-up or aftermath.

“The Justice Department conducts investigations independently and we leave any law enforcement matters to them,” she said. “We are not involved.”

Now:

The Justice Department has been investigating the potential mishandling of classified information since the National Archives and Records Administration said it had received from Mar-a-Lago 15 boxes of White House records, including documents containing classified information, earlier this year. The National Archives said Trump should have turned over that material upon leaving office, and it asked the Justice Department to investigate.

Christina Bobb, a lawyer for Trump, said in an interview that aired on Real America’s Voice on Tuesday that investigators said they were “looking for classified information that they think should not have been removed from the White House, as well as presidential records.”

Once again, you can't just walk off with classified documents or WH records. Trump declassifying them doesn't change that the National Archives still keeps them.

2) The SS was involved.

The FBI reached out to the Secret Service shortly before serving a warrant, a third person familiar with the matter told The Associated Press. Secret Service agents contacted the Justice Department and were able to validate the warrant before facilitating access to the estate, the person said.

That looks right to me.

3) We know Trump left with 15 boxes, and the National Archives surely has a list of things they know Trump took he wasn't allowed to. However, agents executing the warrant were looking for anything else Trump might have taken, that we don't know about. This goes into some other discussions we've had on the topic.

4) Again, the Party of Trump trying to depict all this as Nazi fascism really need to look back at their post history since Sept 2015. Anyone who cheered at Trump wanting to investigate Clinton, which I once again decree all Trump supporters have unless they can prove otherwise by virtue of being Trump supporters, must accept the FBI raid as the right thing to do, and also applaud it. Interesting of course that I haven't had to enforce that yet. Our resident Trump supporters seem to be in lurk mode, possibly knowing full well they didn't just back a lying loser, but possibly a criminal.

[Edge-]

I imagine they'd have to pre-clear it with the USSS detail attached to Trump (or former president). That would avoid uh...some awkward situations.

- - - Updated - - -

https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/...22256499757060

According to reports, and until Joe Biden denies it, a President just raided a former President - his political opponent.

Let that sink in. There are only three branches of government. The FBI is works for the current President.

Thomas Massie is losing his mind, and his whole feed is just insane right now. But this is relevant and there are some points...

1. Joe Biden doesn't need to deny it specifically, actually, he's never threatened to weaponize the FBI or DoJ. But all the same, the White House confirmed they weren't even aware of this.

2. Trump is not his "political opponent". Neither he nor Biden have officially announced/begun their 2024 campaigns.

3. The FBI does not work for the President. They work for the Department of Justice, which works for the American people. The President nominates the heads of the FBI and DoJ respectively, who are confirmed by the US Senate.

It's incredibly to me that many elected officials honestly seem to not even have a basic grasp on how our government works. Which I guess isn't surprising in the slightest.

[Breccia]

I imagine they'd have to pre-clear it with the USSS detail attached to Trump (or former president). That would avoid uh...some awkward situations.

Indeed, if the local sheriff knocked on the door and said "We need Trump's safe" without any previous contact, the SS would likely refuse, on the grounds that, well, there's important stuff in there. This wasn't that. The SS knew not only about the raid just before it happened, but that Trump had taken items he wasn't supposed to, because even if their boss didn't tell them they watch the news.

Now, Trump has minimal choice on security. I don't think he can even hire a bunch of private security with the SS hanging around. So this is just the price he pays for putting himself in the arena where classified info is involved.

- - - Updated - - -

"until Joe Biden denies it"

He has.

The end.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

No, they can't. Search warrants are highly specific. They could respond to a crime in progress, for example follow gunshots/screaming/blood, but if they are there looking for WH property and find dead Jimmy Hoffa they have to leave the skeleton.

That's not quite accurate. If the FBI were to find evidence of a crime not connected to the particulars of their search warrant...exigent circumstances could apply. Like, if they were executing a warrant looking for drugs and stumbled upon a human trafficking operation or something like that they don't just leave the people chained up in the basement.

[DarkTZeratul]

That's not quite accurate. If the FBI were to find evidence of a crime not connected to the particulars of their search warrant...exigent circumstances could apply. Like, if they were executing a warrant looking for drugs and stumbled upon a human trafficking operation or something like that they don't just leave the people chained up in the basement.

Basically, as I understand it, if they happen to find a crime they weren't looking for, that's fair game. They just can't use the warrant as an excuse to look in places not covered by the warrant.

[Endus]

Basically, as I understand it, if they happen to find a crime they weren't looking for, that's fair game. They just can't use the warrant as an excuse to look in places not covered by the warrant.

Yeah, the warrant limits where you can search, it does not limit what you can take action on. As long as your search was within legal limits, evidence of new crimes falls under "probable cause". Same way if a police checkpoint asks to look in people's trunks because there's an amber alert and they suspect the child might be hidden in a trunk, if you agree to the search and they pop your trunk and find a brick of heroin, you're gonna get charged for the heroin. You'd probably be within your rights to refuse the search, and they might force it anyway on the principle of the child's safety, and THEN the heroin would be fruit of the poison tree and they could seize it but not prosecute. Which in this case would be if their warrant covered Trump's office and computers (say), and some agent went into the basement and found a drug den, they're hosed.

This is all not counting probable cause, which also justifies searches. But likely wouldn't apply here.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Basically, as I understand it, if they happen to find a crime they weren't looking for, that's fair game. They just can't use the warrant as an excuse to look in places not covered by the warrant.

Yeah that's basically it.

In the case of finding human remains (such as the skeleton of Jimmy Hoffa)...yeah... you can go check that out.

[Poopymonster]

Indeed, if the local sheriff knocked on the door and said "We need Trump's safe" without any previous contact, the SS would likely refuse, on the grounds that, well, there's important stuff in there. This wasn't that. The SS knew not only about the raid just before it happened, but that Trump had taken items he wasn't supposed to, because even if their boss didn't tell them they watch the news.

Now, Trump has minimal choice on security. I don't think he can even hire a bunch of private security with the SS hanging around. So this is just the price he pays for putting himself in the arena where classified info is involved.

- - - Updated - - -



He has.

The end.

Queue up the "He was betrayed by his own SS".
Make of the phrasing what you will.

[Breccia]

That's not quite accurate. If the FBI were to find evidence of a crime not connected to the particulars of their search warrant...exigent circumstances could apply. Like, if they were executing a warrant looking for drugs and stumbled upon a human trafficking operation or something like that they don't just leave the people chained up in the basement.

I guess I could have been more accurate. But basically, if they know Trump walked out with papers, they can look for papers. They can't take his phone unless they have PC that Trump texted people where the papers are.

- - - Updated - - -

We are joined now by Michael Cohen.

[Edge-]

We are joined now by Michael Cohen.

Hey, didn't that guy used to be the Trump family lawyer and fixer for many years? He sure seems familiar.

[Breccia]

Bitch McConnell finally breaks silence--

"You spelled that wrong."

No, I didn't. He waited an extra 24 hours and still hasn't really taken a stance.

Attorney General Garland and the Department of Justice should already have provided answers to the American people and must do so immediately

Did not take a side. Only asked for "answers". Incidentally, we already know those "answers". Trump committed a crime and a legal warrant was issued and served because of it. It'd be strange if that's not what happened. Surely McConnell believes no-one is above the law?

- - - Updated - - -

18 US 793 is mostly about espionage, but Sections E and F are not.

Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer

The penalty for this is up to 10 years in jail, and/or a fine. Actually it goes into great detail about how much the government can take from you, but it boils down to "the price the foreign government paid you". Oh, and for some reason it says state laws can't stop that.

But yes, that's an on-the-books law that says you're not supposed to take that shit, even accidentally.

No, I didn't find that on my own. There's thousands of 18 US codes. But experts in the law are now pointing that out. In addition to, of course, 18 US 1924, that one I did find on my own, and "it's illegal to destroy that shit" which is 18 US 2071. Which also has some warning signs for Trump.

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Oh, dear. We know Trump took things, even he admits it. If the FBI got them back, that's proof he had them, which is bad. If the FBI can't find them, but Trump can't find them either, that's much worse.

Trump said he was in negotiations to return the classified items he, well, stole. And we all know Trump is a horrible negotiator.

*ahem*

But.

You know how, if you steal six cars, you get charged six times, not once? How many documents did Trump take?

I'm hardly an expert, other than I seem to know more about the laws involved than the fat orange fuck who broke them. But based on what legal proceedings I've seen undergone, there are/were four possible options.

A) Trump could have simply returned them when asked, which he said in public he knew he'd been asked months ago. My guess is, if he'd just returned everything, there might have been a misdemeanor-level fine, at worst, and that'd be that. Yet another "Trump fucked up" headline and it'd be forgotten within days, like his marriage vows.

B) The FBI could have found everything Trump took that was important, and then the DoJ asks if it's worth pressing charges. Considering he lied about it to the point of forcing the most yuge, the most bigly FBI raid, everyone tells me that, they probably would, charging him with the least of the offenses, 2071. Trump would be unable to avoid an immediate guilty finding due to the fact that, well, the FBI got them back, so it's proof he had them. He'd plea bargain, getting a few months probation...and admit guilt to a felony about stealing classified intel. Goodbye, 2024 run.

C) The FBI doesn't find everything, but Trump makes a big, public showing of turning over everything else, probably bragging about what a good guy he is for helping America out by protecting this important information. Meanwhile, behind closed doors, Trump begs on his knees, mascara running as he blubbers in terror, not to be arrested. The result of this is that Trump is not charged with anything, on the understanding that he doesn't run for office. Since the statute of limitations is seven years, I think? Trump loses out on a 2024 and 2028 run, effectively ending his chance at returning to the WH. Coward bitch-ass Trump becomes the GOP mascot and kingmaker, which honestly, is probably something he wanted to be anyhow.

D) The FBI doesn't find everything we know for a fact Trump took, but Trump can't find it either. Uh oh. Since "the dog ate my homework" stopped being acceptable several generations ago, the DoJ has no choice but to admit Trump either destroyed, lost, gave away or sold information he shouldn't have had. Garland (or whoever) doesn't have to prove Trump actually planned on selling anything -- only that he took them, known, and they're mysteriously gone now. He's charged with one to three felonies for each missing document. Fifty trooper-cops in full body armor and 2A Freedom Batons drag his fat ass out the front door in handcuffs, the trial lasts well through the 2024 election, and some of the less insane GOP members who were cozying up to Trump have every second of their interaction dangled over them, costing them Indy votes. (Cultists like MTG in cult locations aren't affected), leading to President Harris with a majority in the House and Senate. Whether or not Trump is convicted stops being important, since this gaping weakness in his tinfoil armor is torn open wide by NYState, Georgia, the IRS, and anyone who hasn't sued him yet going full-on feeding frenzy. Trump damn near spends every day of the rest of his miserable, limp-dick life in courtrooms, unless he goes to prison.

Obviously, A has missed its chance. Of the remaining, I think C is the most likely result. The FBI opened up Trump's safe, but as Cohen said, they wouldn't find the evidence of Trump's many crimes there. Not even Trump is that stupid, sorry, but all joking aside he's not. He's a sociopathic narcissist but he's not "skull fracture" level. That tells me they didn't find everything they were looking for, suggesting B is out. I would love to see that fourth option, but it relies on Trump taking critical classified information, then losing it. Considering he probably wanted to whip it out at parties for women to tell him how beautiful it is, I doubt he left it out in the rain -- not with the SS constantly at his side, as well. Right now, I think the most likely option is that the Trump family and what few trusted friends they have left are looking under the Trump Tower sofa cushions for those last few papers that got separated.

We'll find out. But the fact that Trump took things that (a) he wasn't supposed to and (b) the US govt wants back is no longer in dispute. This isn't Alex Jones level of "what the fuck, dude?" going on here, but it is bad. The question is only "how bad".

[postman1782]

It's Bizarroworld right now. Even Johnathan Turley, the dumbass so called "liberal professor" that frequents Fox News is even saying that the FBI had every right to collect classified information from Mar-A-Lago. I just find it hilarious, you see all these fucking pundits and propagandists on Fox News, Newsmax, OANN, and the morons of Youtube like Steven Crowder, Tim Pool and others going ABSOLUTELY NUTS, some even stating that they are going to start a civil war over Trump breaking the fucking law and the FBI seizing stolen classified material.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news...al-from-trump/

[Deianeira]

https://www.today.com/parents/parent...dent-rcna41710



In which Jesse Waters thinks that a woman needs to get married and pop out a kid before they're ready to be president. Qualifications that are nowhere in the Constitution, mind you.

I swear, Republican men daily hate-masturbate to AOC and wish that she'd step on them.

Don't worry, he has other opinions too -



Because he seems to have issues with pregnant women, too.

Man, it sure just seems like Republican men just don't really like women doing anything beyond being walking baby factories.

I mean how many women that have just had a baby is home 3months after giving birth?