Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[SoulForge]

This raid doesn’t pass the sniff test (yet) so whatever they do better be iron-fucking-clad because if it’s not then there’s a pretty solid argument of weaponizing the DOJ against political opponents. Not that it’d be unprecedented in Biden’s circle, Obama used the IRS in a similar fashion.

Doesn't pass the sniff test? HE HAD CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS. He STOLE THEM. He had NO RIGHT to keep them. They were not his! Mishandling classified documents is very serious!

[DarkTZeratul]

Doesn't pass the sniff test? HE HAD CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS. He STOLE THEM. He had NO RIGHT to keep them. They were not his! Mishandling classified documents is very serious!

They'd also spent over a year asking for them with a shocking degree of politeness. The only prosecutorial discretion displayed here was that it took so long to actually send the FBI to flat-out take them back.

[Gorsameth]

Barr is trying to demonstrate he's a classic Republican, not a Party of Trumper. Too little, too late. We already know he stifled the obstruction investigation against Trump. Correction: the first obstruction investigation against Trump. Maybe he's desperately playing to the McConnell crowd, hoping they'll give him a second chance, because Trump won't.

Barr lost all credibility when he applied for the job of AG by writing an op-ed titled 'If I were AG I would never charge a sitting President'.
You don't get to pretend your not a Trumper when you were the first one into the trenches to grant him total immunity.

[SoulForge]

They'd also spent over a year asking for them with a shocking degree of politeness. The only prosecutorial discretion displayed here was that it took so long to actually send the FBI to flat-out take them back.

This right here. The arguments I'm seeing about "They were cooperating." Or "All they had to do was ask". is 100% bullshit. He should have never taken them. If anyone else not president had done this they would have been at your door the next day.

[Breccia]

Barr lost all credibility when he applied for the job of AG by writing an op-ed titled 'If I were AG I would never charge a sitting President'.
You don't get to pretend your not a Trumper when you were the first one into the trenches to grant him total immunity.

The GOP might accept him back. I guess the question is, is his obvious stance-dancing going to pay off or not?

[gondrin]

To which I say ok for the sake of argument if that’s the standard, that’s the standard; where were the indictments for Hillary Clinton if indeed these are criminal statutes? Not getting into a giant butteremails exchange, but really if the FBI is enforcing a criminal statute here then what happened in 2016? Prosecutorial disgression?

This raid doesn’t pass the sniff test (yet) so whatever they do better be iron-fucking-clad because if it’s not then there’s a pretty solid argument of weaponizing the DOJ against political opponents. Not that it’d be unprecedented in Biden’s circle, Obama used the IRS in a similar fashion.

Once again, what does Hillary Clinton have to do with any of this? Did she have boxes full of classified, up to and including Top Secret, Special Access Program and Sensitive Compartmented Information, laying around in her basement for anyone to walk in on? Did she help transport the stuff to Mar-a-Lago?

In what way is Clinton even remotely connected to this or are you going to continue doing the standard tactic of Whataboutism that the Russian love to use?

[Shadowferal]

To which I say ok for the sake of argument if that’s the standard, that’s the standard; where were the indictments for Hillary Clinton if indeed these are criminal statutes? Not getting into a giant butteremails exchange, but really if the FBI is enforcing a criminal statute here then what happened in 2016? Prosecutorial disgression?

Wrong thread.

This raid doesn’t pass the sniff test (yet) so whatever they do better be iron-fucking-clad because if it’s not then there’s a pretty solid argument of weaponizing the DOJ against political opponents. Not that it’d be unprecedented in Biden’s circle, Obama used the IRS in a similar fashion.

And Trump didn't?
The attorney General was his defense lawyer.

Trump has done nothing but justify the zero trust that Intel agencies and the Pentagon had with him. Sonuvabitch deserves a firing squad.

[Fugus]

The GOP might accept him back. I guess the question is, is his obvious stance-dancing going to pay off or not?

Can definitely see that, he did have a hand in covering up for the Iran contra as well. The only thing the GOP hate about this is that it failed. They would gladly have him back to try again.

[Breccia]

Trump must be very very angry with the guy who appointed that judge.

And, as mentioned before, Trump has yet to make a legal motion to have the judge recuse himself. His complaint would have more, as in any, merit if he'd proven he actually meant it. As it stands, he's just shouting at passing clouds.

[Edge-]

To which I say ok for the sake of argument if that’s the standard, that’s the standard; where were the indictments for Hillary Clinton if indeed these are criminal statutes? Not getting into a giant butteremails exchange, but really if the FBI is enforcing a criminal statute here then what happened in 2016? Prosecutorial disgression?

Whether they have sufficient evidence to prove criminal intent beyond a reasonable doubt. Which they did not have for Clinton, and neither did Congressional Republicans as I believe they didn't even provide the FBI with a criminal referral for Clinton over her emails.

Whereas with Trump, they viewed they had enough evidence to pursue a search warrant with probable cause, which was signed off on by a judge.

I imagine a large part of this equation is the cooperation provided by both subjects. Hillary Clinton largely cooperated and did not need to be subpoena'd by the FBI - though she was by Congressional Republicans if memory serves. Trump, in contrast, needed to have a subpoena for additional documents after he failed to turn over all documents as requested. Despite the subpoena, there were still missing documents which is what triggered the search warrant.

You know, just slightly different circumstances, dealing with slightly different levels of information (SCI documents), and slightly different volumes of information that was classified at the time of it being sent/taken.

This raid doesn’t pass the sniff test (yet)

Why not?

The Archives noticed many documents missing, including classified and SCI information.

The Archives requested the documents voluntarily. They did not receive all of the missing documents.
A subpoena was issued for the remaining documents. They still did not receive all of the missing documents.
A warrant was issued, signed off on a Trump-appointed judge as having sufficient probable cause, that retrieved even more missing documents.

Reportedly with upwards of 800+ of these being classified, and many being SCI. Maralago does not have a Sciff, nor is it a remotely "secure" facility as we've seen time and time again.

What's not smelling right?

there’s a pretty solid argument of weaponizing the DOJ against political opponents.

This argument requires someone to literally ignore the entire past few years of the Garland-led DoJ and how they've basically refused to go after members of the Trump administration for lying to Congress under oath, lying to investigators and obstructing investigations, and much more. It requires that someone basically never have any knowledge of Garland at all and only hear about Garland from Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson, who is not exactly a paragon of truth.

There is no "solid" argument for this. There's no argument for this at all.

Not that it’d be unprecedented in Biden’s circle, Obama used the IRS in a similar fashion.

As has been repeatedly shown, this is factually incorrect and the dishonest misinformation spread by Republicans.

[callipygoustp]

Seriously, people are still bringing up Hilary's emails?

[Kaleredar]

Seriously, people are still bringing up Hilary's emails?

That and Hunter Biden's laptop are all they have.

[gondrin]

That and Hunter Biden's laptop are all they have.

What if, and hear me out, all of the Buttery Males were on said laptop? Dun, dun, dun.....

Lots and lots of pictures of those Buttery Males.

[Breccia]

Yes, everyone sensible agrees, there's nothing legally problematic with her electronic media.

But there is something wrong with his.

Trump's social media network, Truth Social, is--

"Don't you usually call it something else?"

I can't for this article. See, Trump tried to file a copyright and it was rejected. See, the name "Truth Social" was too close to "True Social", shown here, a small business helping company or some such. The website says copyright 2019.

"Why doesn't he use Truth Network, then?"

That's a Bible talk radio show. Founded in 2000.

Because the marks are similar and the goods and services are related, there is a likelihood of confusion as to the source of applicant's goods and services, and registration is refused pursuant to Section 2(d) of the Trademark Act

Such a great businessman. Can't even name his company right.

What else we got?

So, you know, maybe we ought to ask the government, how many times did you ask for the return of the material and President Trump has said several times, ‘all they had do was ask.

Well, my sense is they were asking for a year and a half, and why he was holding on to these materials when he had no legal authority to do so under the Presidential Records Act is beyond me

Karl Rove, on FOX News. Somehow I doubt they'll show the video, but Yahoo will, and yes, that still counts.

This was not the only time today FOX News brought on a guest who, erm, wasn't 100% on board the Trump train. Jesse Walters for some reason brought on a guest who listed all the crazy stuff Trump could have had just lying around in his basement.

Mr Kessler, 78, the author of The Secrets of the FBI and other non-fiction books about the White House, the CIA, and the Secret Service, appeared on Fox News on Thursday.

“The level of classification that we're talking about here for these documents, beyond top secret, beyond Sensitive Compartmented, that could very well include the plans for counterstriking against Russia in the event of a nuclear attack,” Mr Kessler said.

“That's something that's part of the football programme ... where the President chooses options from these documents on how to respond, he has to respond within 20 minutes to prevent annihilation of the United States. And that's one item that could be in these documents,” he added.

“Now, there are penetrations by the CIA of foreign embassies, of foreign leaders like Putin, as well as recruitment of spies overseas,” Mr Kessler said. “So we're talking about incredibly valuable secrets that the Russians, of course, would have been after.”

“The Russians would have been trying to penetrate Mar-a-Lago day and night and very possibly did recruit spies to obtain these documents,” he said.

The FOX host managed to recover long enough to dismiss those all, then say the FBI plants evidence for a living. No, really.

You're saying that they could be there. We have no idea if they're there or not, and we'll never know. And at this point ... you can't trust these guys, because they lie and they plant evidence for living.

Yep, that's FOX News officially saying the FBI plants evidence for a living. From now on, every FOX News citation I get earns me two CNN articles. And yes, I'm going to bank most of these till 2024, drop them all at once, and Trump's supporters won't be allowed to complain.

What else we got?

The Georgia criminal investigation is also ongoing. (I did use the term "starter pistol").

The prosecutor investigating whether former Trump and others illegally tried to interfere in the 2020 election in Georgia is seeking information about the alleged involvement of a Trump ally in the breach of voting equipment at a county roughly 200 miles south of her Atlanta office.

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is seeking to have attorney Sidney Powell, who tried persistently to overturn Trump’s loss, testify before a special grand jury seated for the investigation into possible illegal election interference. In her court petition filed Thursday, Willis said Powell is “known to be affiliated” with Trump and the Trump campaign and has unique knowledge about her communications with them and others “involved in the multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere.”

Emails and other records first reported this month by The Washington Post and also obtained by The Associated Press show that Powell was involved in arranging for a team from data solutions company SullivanStrickler to travel to the county’s elections office.

The records were produced in response to subpoenas issued by plaintiffs in a long-running lawsuit that alleges Georgia’s voting machines, which are manufactured by Dominion Voting Systems, are vulnerable to attack. The plaintiffs want the machines replaced by a system that uses hand-marked paper ballots.

In an email sent to Powell on Jan. 7, 2021, SullivanStrickler COO Paul Maggio said he and his team were “on our way to Coffee County Georgia to collect what we can from the Election/Voting machines and systems.” He included an invoice for an “initial retainer” of $26,000 to pay for a team of four people for one day. The subject of the invoice is “Voting Machines Analysis.”

That date is critical. So, there are three options.
1) The email is fake. I acknowledge it's possible, but I find it highly unlikely.
2) Powell hired a team to verify that Georgia's election system had been hacked, without Georgia's permission, after the election was signed off by Pence. This, therefore, would not have put Trump back in the WH, as there is no remedy for that.
3) Powell hired a team to break into election machines, either to hack them, or to plant false evidence they'd been hacked.

Note that both 2 and 3 are bad news for everyone involved. You can't just break into voting machines and expect not to get arrested. Even Republicans admit voter fraud is bad news, they just have another context in mind.

What else we got?

Uh...shit, I was hoping Trump had filed that filing he claimed he was going to file. I guess he still hasn't. Bold move, Cotton, let's see how it plays out.

[sirmixalot]

What if, and hear me out, all of the Buttery Males were on said laptop? Dun, dun, dun.....

Lots and lots of pictures of those Buttery Males.

"Help me Hunter Biden's laptop, you're my only hope"

[Breccia]

"Help me Hunter Biden's laptop, you're my only hope"

You laugh, but conservative media is doing exactly that. This story from the National Review, why yes it was posted yesterday, says the FBI was told not to investigate Hunter Biden's laptop just before the election.

Oh no! How horrible! Wait, isn't that what Team Trump is saying now? That politics shouldn't guide investigations? I guess Republicans can't complain about that.

Also, wasn't Trump in charge of the FBI back then? I mean, sure, you could claim Trump had more important things to do...seems odd, Giuliani brought him the laptop, Giuliani's not part of the DOJ...but if you claim Trump wasn't running this FBI investigation, I think you'd have to also claim Biden's not running this one.

Oh, and...um...what was supposed to be on that laptop, anyhow? I know he's had other problems, but the laptop itself, was was the concern about it? Because I seem to remember there was concern there could be national secrets on it.

Well, you know what that means. Anyone who expresses concern about Hunter Biden's laptop must explain what was on it, that shouldn't have been. And if the answer is "government secrets" then, guess what, they have to say what Trump did was also illegal.

[gondrin]

Well, to go from one incompetency to another, you too could make your own Truth Social network, name and all, to compete directly with Trumps and there is nothing he can do about it because their name is has been rejected for trademark status.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...age=AA116Vk9|3

Trump's Truth Social platform had its trademark application rejected because its name wasn't unique enough

Former President Donald Trump has run into a significant setback with trademarking the name for his social media platform, Truth Social.

According to a filing released this month and tweeted by Josh Gerben, a trademark lawyer, Trump's social media app had its application refused by the US Patent and Trademark Office because its name bore too much resemblance to the names of other business entities.

The patent office found that Trump's company name was "confusingly similar" to other entities, including Vero — True Social, an app-based social media platform, and the Truth Network, a Christian radio broadcast network.

Among the patent office's concerns was that Truth Social's name bore the "same dominant feature" — the word "Truth" — as the Truth Network. In relation to Vero — True Social, the patent office wrote that the "dominant wording TRUTH and TRUE communicate the same idea of being honest or emphasizing fact while networking socially."

"Moreover, both marks also contain the wording SOCIAL meaning they look and sound similar generally outside of a small variation of TRUTH," read the filing.

"Because the marks are similar and the goods and services are related, there is a likelihood of confusion as to the source of applicant's goods and services, and registration is refused pursuant to Section 2(d) of the Trademark Act," the filing concluded.

Trump has until February 2023 to respond to the filing.

This is not the first setback Trump's social media platform has faced. In June, the company buying Truth Social warned that the deal might fall through because of a slew of grand jury subpoenas it received. The planned merger of Digital World Acquisition Corp, a special purpose acquisition company, and Truth Social is also under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Built by the Trump Media and Technology Group, Truth Social strongly resembles Twitter, which permanently suspended Trump's account in January 2021. Truth Social was also plagued by technical difficulties shortly after its launch in February — with potential users placed on waitlists after finding themselves unable to create accounts.

[Corvus]

No doubt the patent office is now part of the WITCH HUNT against the yugest biggliest president ever.

[Ripster42]

Attorney-client privilege doesn't exclude anything related to any matter you might have talked to your lawyer about. It only means your lawyer can't be forced to produce evidence or testify against you. If you talk to your lawyer about what to do about the guy you murdered, and the cops find the murder weapon on a search warrant of your house, your lawyer doesn't get to exclude that evidence on the basis of privilege. That's insane. And yet, that seems to be the argument they're making here.

You don't understand attorney-client privilege. It covers all coms between you and your lawyer about legal advice, regardless of whose possession it's in. They wouldn't be able to exclude the murder weapon because they didn't find it because of what the attorney said. Your comparison isn't good either. Trump absolutely can claim attorney-client privilege on specific documents if they're coms with his lawyers, which could be the case if you actually looked at the warrant, which is why the FBI is using a taint team to go over the collected evidence, because they actually know the law.

Your skepticism is almost certainly warranted and @Kaleredar is almost certainly correct. I've kept selling the idea that Trump had pretty normal stuff in his safe, like his will and the deed to the run-down motel where he bangs whores. It is possible some unrelated, non-secret, non-WH items were in there. Fine, but that's what the filter team is for. Which Team Trump is arguing shouldn't be used.

WH material doesn't fall under lawyer-client privilege. That's it.

The warrant allowed them to take all docs stored near any material marked confidential, not just docs marked as confidential. There could absolutely be privileged info there and likely was.

Nothing about claiming attorney-client privilege will do anything to affect the case the DoJ is putting together in a negative way. If it's evidence of a crime being plotted between a lawyer and their client, attorney-client privilege doesn't apply. Like kaleredar was saying, just a smokescreen/meat for his groupies.

Since Trump is not the defendant here, is it possible for a judge to actually deny Trump from representing himself? "Get a lawyer or the case will be dismissed" kind of deal.

What gave you this idea? Odds are, he's the target of the investigation.

He's the plaintiff.

He's the "movant" in a case seeking to limit the information collected during a search executed in an investigation he's the likely target of. That's not the same as a plaintiff.

It does, good point. If you represent yourself as the plaintiff, well, as they said, even Clarence Darrow had an attorney.

As stated, he's not the plaintiff. He's the movant in a defensive motion.

The Constitution says you're entitled to a defense, not an offense.

Right to petition to redress grievances.



Guys, for real, tighten up. All of the stuff above I addressed is BadLegalTakes fodder.

Why exactly should Trump have access to classified, secret and top secret documents now that he is no longer President?

He shouldn't. It's why he's going to lose that specific petition.

So GTeam Trump released the letter from the National Archives asking for their stuff back.

"Why?"

Nobody has any idea.

My guess? It was john solomon. Dude literally hates america and thinks propping up trump is the best way to destroy the country. He's doing what junior did about the trump tower meeting: trying to front run and downplay bad news.

Literal worst President in the history of the US who lost the popular vote and ended up fucking up the economy with his regressive policies. The worst president who can't help himself and shut his mouth for two fucking seconds? Gee, I wonder why people hate this guy.

I've got him fighting for that spot, but I've still got to give it to andrew "genocide" jackson over trump. You know, because of the genocide.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, to go from one incompetency to another, you too could make your own Truth Social network, name and all, to compete directly with Trumps and there is nothing he can do about it because their name is has been rejected for trademark status.

"From the guy who brought you the lawsuit against the twitter account 'Devin Nunes' Cow' we bring you the un-trademarkable 'Truth Social!'" The GOP is nothing but a pack of idiot grifters and has-beens.

[Breccia]

Right to petition to redress grievances.

He doesn't get a public lawyer to do that.

My guess? It was john solomon.

You don't need to guess. It was John Solomon. The question is why, not who.