1. #80321
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Do they actually know what specific documents are missing? I would imagine not, unless there is a complete inventory of all classified documents inside the WH and that inventory was kept up to date throughout the Trump administration



    They knew some stuff was gone. But probably not the exact details.
    I think the folders themselves have a label for whatever organization system they have, so they can probably tell what's in the folder without having to open it.
    9

  2. #80322
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/02/polit...rch/index.html

    One box containing documents marked with confidential, secret and top secret classification identifications also contained "99 magazines/newspapers/press articles," according to the inventory from last month's search filed in federal court in Florida.
    ...securely stored?

    Several other boxes detailed in the inventory contained documents marked as classified stored with press clippings, as well as with articles of clothing and gifts.
    Is this the, "If I hide classified documents along with random stuff surely nobody will find it." secure storage?

    The court filing also provided a breakdown of the type of markings on the classified material taken from Mar-a-Lago, including 18 documents marked top secret, 54 documents marked secret and 31 documents marked confidential.
    Anybody could take over 100 classified documents with them and then forget to give them back when asked and they gave back other classified documents. And then also forget to give them back when a subpoena is issued and they have to give back even more classified documents.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/02/polit...ory/index.html

    Lots of stuff taken from a "Box/Container from Storage Room". Doesn't sound exactly secure to me.

  3. #80323
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Well, the FBI should know what documents they expected to find, and whether or not they were supposed to be empty folders.
    Indeed, NARA handed them a list of documents, not a list of folders. Anything Trump took that the FBI does have, is evidence of a crime. Anything Trump took that the FBI doesn't have, is evidence of...well, probably the same crime, but yes, @fwc577 points out it could be another crime too.

    Losing federal records by accident is still a crime, and if it's classified (yes, that one does matter) it's 10 years.

  4. #80324
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/02/polit...nts/index.html

    House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy sent a letter to Attorney General Merrick Garland about the search of former President Donald Trump's home at Mar-a-Lago requesting that Garland and FBI Director Christopher Wray testify in public and provide documents Republicans have requested relating to the search, as congressional GOP pressure on the Department of Justice intensifies.
    TLDR: Headline should be, "Republican House Minority Leader asks FBI/DoJ to undermine their investigation by making sensitive materials public."

  5. #80325
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    "If I hide classified documents along with random stuff surely nobody will find it."
    It really does look like Trump made an intentional effort to hide evidence. Even if that's me reading the FBI's phrasing as passive-aggressive and Trump really just threw things randomly together, then forgot about it, maybe that's not as bad, but it's still a crime. You're not allowed to have them, end of story.

  6. #80326
    My question is where are the contents of those empty classified folders? You don't just grab empty folders like that, they either had something in them and has been removed (Potentially stolen or sold) or fell out or you just thought they had something in them when you packed them.

    What was in those empty folders and where is the contents.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  7. #80327
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    "requesting that Garland and FBI Director Christopher Wray testify in public"
    Actually I quite want this.

    "Director Wray, could you please tell us the information that led you to believe Trump had illegally taken documents?"
    "Yes. Trump told everyone he did, in public. Several times."
    "I meant, could you please name your confidential informants?"
    "The National Archives. They gave us a list of things Trump took."
    "I meant--"
    "I know what you meant, dude. The fact of the matter is we've known Trump took them for 18 months and you seem upset more at the FBI who found objective evidence of the crime, than the crime itself. I want you to go back through your last six years of Twiiter posts about people who leaked information from the WH, and then stop being a hypocrite and say the same thing here. I'm not commenting on an ongoing investigation and I don't work for you, I work for the American people. I'll put it in a language you understand, I take the Fifth four hundred times, now if you'll excuse me I have actual criminals to prosecute."

  8. #80328
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    My question is where are the contents of those empty classified folders? You don't just grab empty folders like that, they either had something in them and has been removed (Potentially stolen or sold) or fell out or you just thought they had something in them when you packed them.

    What was in those empty folders and where is the contents.
    Two possible outcomes -

    1. Stored at the archives properly. Either taken before Trump left, or in the two times they had to take classified documents from him before (meaning he would have had to have taken the documents out of the folders to hide separately).

    2. Somewhere else. Maybe stashed at one of his kids places. Maybe burried in the grave with his ex-wife. Maybe in Russia. Maybe in Saudi Arabia. Could be anywhere. Could be flushed down the toilet. Maybe an alligator ate it. I bet an alligator ate it.

  9. #80329
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Two possible outcomes -

    1. Stored at the archives properly. Either taken before Trump left, or in the two times they had to take classified documents from him before (meaning he would have had to have taken the documents out of the folders to hide separately).

    2. Somewhere else. Maybe stashed at one of his kids places. Maybe burried in the grave with his ex-wife. Maybe in Russia. Maybe in Saudi Arabia. Could be anywhere. Could be flushed down the toilet. Maybe an alligator ate it. I bet an alligator ate it.
    I suppose there's also Option 1.5 between the two, which is that they're not in the folder they should be in, but are in one of the other boxes the FBI took.

  10. #80330
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    I suppose there's also Option 1.5 between the two, which is that they're not in the folder they should be in, but are in one of the other boxes the FBI took.
    I'm under the assumption that this list was based on the info after they went through everything.
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  11. #80331
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    I suppose there's also Option 1.5 between the two, which is that they're not in the folder they should be in, but are in one of the other boxes the FBI took.
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    I'm under the assumption that this list was based on the info after they went through everything.
    The important thing is, the folders aren't really important. I doubt the classified (or whatever) material is written on the cover.

    If the file that used to be inside was returned, okay, if it was in another box, that's bad, if it's missing, it's worse. The folder is meaningless. It's only on the list because clothes and books were, too.

  12. #80332
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    I think the folders themselves have a label for whatever organization system they have, so they can probably tell what's in the folder without having to open it.
    right, but did the contents get removed before or after the folder left the WH. that is the big question
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  13. #80333
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    right, but did the contents get removed before or after the folder left the WH. that is the big question
    Also important questions: who removed them, and why? It could be the difference between "Trump is extremely careless and has no concern for proper organization" and "someone else was handling these files who had absolutely no business doing so."

  14. #80334
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    In related news, we keep seeing the story "Trump insiders think a close friend or family member ratted Trump out". The most recent one I've seen refers to the location of the leather box filled with miscellaneous mixed items. Now, I've already theorized these were Trump's favorites and he kept them in the safe. But I guessed that in retrospect. My earlier guesses were "nothing of criminal relevance is in the safe". Nor did I think the safe was in Melania's closet.
    About the leather box: I think this was it.



    EDIT: This is, near as I can tell, the single biggest collection of shit Trump wasn't supposed to have. It was in his office. Not the storage room.

    - - - Ghostbusters! - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Also important questions: who removed them, and why?
    This is the best case scenario:

    FBI: We're here in May for those documents we know you have.
    Bobb: Okay, I did a diligent search, I'm handing over everything we ha--
    FBI: HOLY SHIT, you took them out of the folder? That's classified stuff!
    Bobb: But--
    FBI: WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU? I thought you were a lawyer! You're supposed to know this stuff!

  15. #80335
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Two possible outcomes -

    1. Stored at the archives properly. Either taken before Trump left, or in the two times they had to take classified documents from him before (meaning he would have had to have taken the documents out of the folders to hide separately).

    2. Somewhere else. Maybe stashed at one of his kids places. Maybe burried in the grave with his ex-wife. Maybe in Russia. Maybe in Saudi Arabia. Could be anywhere. Could be flushed down the toilet. Maybe an alligator ate it. I bet an alligator ate it.
    Speaking about flushing things down the toilet, now we know why he had a habit of doing that.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...interstitial=1

    Trump didn't trust the Pentagon's method for disposing of classified documents and kept unread files in a cardboard box near his desk: New York Times

    During his time in office, former President Donald Trump kept a cardboard box near his desk in which he stored documents that he had yet to read, The New York Times reported on Thursday.

    The Times spoke to former Trump administration officials and staffers who gave some insight into how he handled documents.

    According to the outlet, Trump had mistrusted burn bags, which were the designated means by which the Pentagon and the CIA disposed of top-secret documents.

    Per the unnamed former officials that spoke to the Times, Trump didn't believe the material would be destroyed. Instead, he resorted to tearing up documents — including those with his handwriting on them — and tossing them into the toilet.

    The Times also reported that Trump would place unread briefing books and other files in a cardboard box near his desk. Per the outlet, this box would get taken away when it was full and was brought with Trump aboard Air Force One when he traveled.

    While the officials didn't recall seeing top-secret documents going into the box, they told The Times that there was a fair amount of chaos behind the scenes in the last days of the Trump administration.

    John Bolton, Trump's former national security adviser, also told The Times that Trump would occasionally remark about how something was interesting and ask to keep it.

    "For Trump, every time you ask for something back, it implies you don't trust him," Bolton told The Times, adding that staffers would not always succeed in trying to get something back from Trump.

    A representative at Trump's post-presidential press office did not immediately respond to a request for comment from Insider.

    The FBI is investigating whether Trump broke three federal laws, including the Espionage Act, by keeping classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. While executing a search warrant on the property earlier this month, agents seized 11 sets of classified documents. Per The Washington Post, some of the documents were marked top secret and concerned nuclear weapons.

  16. #80336
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    JFC... I hadn't even thought of that.
    That was the first thing I thought of.
    He's got empty Big Mac boxes surrounding his desk and screeching
    "I'm fasting! If I'm not I didn't eat them. If I did, it was just one. If it was 1, it was diet!"

    If someone was accused of taking top secret shit, and they found real top secret folders full of top secret air, I'd be pushing for search warrants for EVERYFUCKINGPLACE in search of those missing documents.
    Last edited by Poopymonster; 2022-09-02 at 06:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  17. #80337
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/02/polit...fox/index.html

    Trump's former AG Bill Barr said, on Fox News, that there's no reason Trump should have had classified documents at Maralago.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/...blican-agenda/

    In the midterm elections, Republicans are running against an all-Democratic government that has produced record inflation, falling real wages, insecurity at the border, and weakness abroad. The indictment is just, the instinct to capitalize on public dissatisfaction sound.

    But there’s something missing from the Republican campaigns. With rare exceptions, Republicans are doing little to explain what they would have the government do differently if they took power. If Republicans take the House and the Senate, what kind of legislation do they intend to send to President Biden? Detailed plans aren’t needed; nor must all the candidates agree on a singular platform, Contract with America–style. But voters deserve to have a sense of how Republicans intend to wield the power for which they are asking.
    The editors of the National Review, realizing that Republicans haven't actually had a platform to campaign on beyond, "We'll investigate Democrats!" and "We'll prevent Democrats from getting anything done!", and how that's likely a factor in what's harming their campaigns right now.

    Which, to be honest, isn't new for Republicans, they've yet to present any kind of platform since before Trump was in office. He had a platform-of-sorts, but it was hardly focused. And it resulted in the only legislative accomplishment of Republicans when they similarly controlled the White House, House, and Senate being the majority-unpopular 2017 tax cut.

    Meanwhile, Democrats with their even smaller majorities have delivered multiple legislative wins that directly go back to their agenda they campaigned on for 2020.

  18. #80338
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Also important questions: who removed them, and why? It could be the difference between "Trump is extremely careless and has no concern for proper organization" and "someone else was handling these files who had absolutely no business doing so."
    I wonder if Trump is ignorant enough to think that taking the material out of its folder is how he "declassified" stuff. (Even if that's the case, mishandling classified information and NDI is one of the relatively rare legal cases where the defendant's state of mind doesn't matter, it's still a crime.)
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  19. #80339
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/02/polit...fox/index.html

    Trump's former AG Bill Barr said, on Fox News, that there's no reason Trump should have had classified documents at Maralago.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/...blican-agenda/



    The editors of the National Review, realizing that Republicans haven't actually had a platform to campaign on beyond, "We'll investigate Democrats!" and "We'll prevent Democrats from getting anything done!", and how that's likely a factor in what's harming their campaigns right now.

    Which, to be honest, isn't new for Republicans, they've yet to present any kind of platform since before Trump was in office. He had a platform-of-sorts, but it was hardly focused. And it resulted in the only legislative accomplishment of Republicans when they similarly controlled the White House, House, and Senate being the majority-unpopular 2017 tax cut.

    Meanwhile, Democrats with their even smaller majorities have delivered multiple legislative wins that directly go back to their agenda they campaigned on for 2020.
    Its the US. you don't have to come up with better idea's. you just fling mud.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  20. #80340
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I don't know why, but I read that as monte dolack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

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