Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Endus]

His capacity to assert it over documents survives leaving the office. It is up to the courts to determine whether or not particular documents are subject to it, or higher concerns overrule actual executive privilege, not the DoJ.

The most hilarious thing about this incredibly ridiculous argument is that if Trump had documents covered by executive privilege in his possession, he had classified material he'd stolen unlawfully and what you're describing is a confession to a crime, not a defense.

[masterhorus8]

Newsweek has an explanation. Kishner is giving a speech today.

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Team Trump files counterargument to DOJ.

This just happened, and legal experts will surely weigh in, but this part stuck out:



Besides the admission that NARA was supposed to get them back, the problem is, Trump is using a defense for a crime he's not accused of. The warrant didn't mention 2201 at all. Trump and the Trump defenders need to stop defending him for crimes he hasn't been accused of yet, and focus on the ones he has been.

Reading through the PRA, I love how it already argues against their stance...

Under "Presidential Records":

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

"Ownership of Presidential records"

The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records

"Management and custody of Presidential records"

(g)(1) Upon the conclusion of a President’s term of office, or if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, the Archivist of the United States shall assume responsibility for the custody, control, and preservation of, and access to, the Presidential records of that President. The Archivist shall have an affirmative duty to make such records available to the public as rapidly and completely as possible consistent with the provisions of this chapter.

This is just so typically Trump and his supporters... Always arguing against themselves when they try to provide evidence.

[Breccia]

Minor correction, but the is--

As you spent the last entire week arguing an irrelevant point, your claim "but the issue" is summarily handwaved. You voluntarily gave up the right to debate this topic when you made the same wrong point six times in a row despite being corrected with evidence. I am merely taking you up on that offer. P.S. Your second line is still wrong.

On topic: it has not been a good morning for Trump.

1) A growing number of GOP members are publicly breaking with Trump, specifically, on Trump's offer to pardon the people who tried to murder the GOP members.

Big surprise, there are exceptions like Rep. Hawley (R-Hey-Moe)

“I think that the folks who committed crimes, particularly violent crimes, on that day ought to be prosecuted,” Hawley said of the Jan. 6 protesters who have been sentenced to prison. “I think the question becomes, are there people who’ve been caught up in this drag net who, for instance, didn’t know that they were trespassing?“

“There’s a lot of concern about, frankly, the double standard at [the Department of Justice] going after people who may have at most trespassed on federal property and not even known they did it versus folks who have in [Black Lives Matter] riots committed violent crimes and not been prosecuted,” he added, referring to the failure to prosecute people who destroyed property at riots in the wake of George Floyd’s death at the hands of police.

“There absolutely is undeniably a double standard,” he said.

Funny how all of a sudden racial equality is a concern. Now, for the record, is it fair to treat two people differently for basically the same crime and basically the same motive? No, not really. Of course, it isn't the same crime. BLM never attacked the election, for example. And, pretty sure I've said this once or twice, someone else getting a lesser/no punishment for a crime is not a valid excuse for you to avoid punishment for your own crime. If you run a stop sign, and you get pulled over, "that guy also ran the sign" doesn't get you out of a ticket.

That said, it's nice for these Party of Trump members to self-identify as pro-terrorist. Makes the voting easier.

2) By now, you've probably seen the headlines about a new book -- by a reporter this time, not the 34th Only Sane Man In The WH -- that Trump said he wasn't going to leave the WH if he lost, because he refused to admit he lost.

Yes, we all know he did anyhow. But he was saying ahead of time he wouldn't. I believe the term for that is "evidence of motive".

“I’m just not going to leave,” Trump allegedly told staff, according to Confidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and the Breaking of America, which is set to be released on Oct. 4. Haberman details how the former president initially accepted his electoral loss but quickly latched onto narratives of electoral fraud. “Why should I leave if they stole it from me?” Trump reportedly complained to Republican National Committee Chair Ronna McDaniel, while affirming to an aide that “we’re never leaving … how can you leave when you won an election?”

Haberman adds that Trump questioned virtually anyone who walked into his office about how he might be able to stay in power — including the valet who hand-delivered Diet Cokes, which infamously summoned via a button in the Oval Office.

You forgot about the Diet Coke button, didn't you?

3) The 34th Only Sane Man In The WH...okay no, he was just a Trump-appointed attorney for the Southern District of New York, not in the WH. But again, a Trump appointee points out that Trump was, in fact, doing the same thing in office as he's worried about now.

Berman described a tenure under Attorney Generals Jeff Sessions and Bill Barr and acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker rife with politics and constant interference, pressuring him to remove references to Individual-1, aka Donald Trump, in the case against Michael Cohen, the president's former lawyer.

"On the eve of Cohen's guilty plea, main Justice tried to get our office to remove any reference to Individual-1, who was President Trump. They were unsuccessful in that venture. And they were unsuccessful in every attempt to politically interfere with our office. We held the line in every instance," Berman told ABC's "Good Morning America."

Berman said his office was urged to bring charges against Kerry for violations of the Logan Act -- which makes it illegal for U.S. citizens to take part in unauthorized foreign diplomacy -- over Kerry's discussions about the Iran nuclear agreement.

Yeah, we've heard a lot about the Logan Act, haven't we? Considering Trump saw it violated by his own people and then tried to defend that, comes off as pretty damned hypocritical.

Which of course, is how it happened.

"That was truly outrageous," Berman said.

No charges were ever brought against Kerry.

"President Trump attacks John Kerry in two tweets saying that Kerry engaged in possible illegal conversations with Iranian officials regarding the Iran nuclear deal. The very next day, the Trump Justice Department refers the John Kerry criminal case to the Southern District of New York. Two tweets by the president and the John Kerry criminal case becomes a priority," Berman said.

4) That filing I mentioned earlier is yet another attempt by Team Trump to downplay the severity of his crime. Under oath:

This investigation of the 45th president of the United States

(eyeroll)

is both unprecedented and misguided. In what at its core is a document storage dispute that has spiraled out of control, the government wrongfully seeks to criminalize the possession by the 45th president

Yeah, by the way, "President Trump" appears 22 times in 21 pages. "Former President Trump" appears zero times. Looks like someone filed the director's cut.

of his own presidential and personal records.

This is, of course, a lie. If your car ends up in my garage without your knowledge or permission, that's not "parking in the wrong spot". That's not even including the issue with Trump saying they were his presidential records when they were still SCI. And his personal stuff will be returned...after it's done being evidence that Trump stole government property.

Team Trump also tried to claim the FBI's cited sense of urgency wasn't there when he refused to return things in April and May, which is a fucking stupid thing to admit. Again, the entire "why didn't they just ask?" defense has been so brutally torn to shreds at this point, Freddy Krueger and Wolverine are jealous. Then there's the whole "the FBI didn't know there was a threat to national security until they saw Trump had stolen SCI and left it in his desk drawer" bit. You don't probably have a sense of urgency about where your car is until you need to drive it. When you find it's not in your driveway, that's when you call the police.

The judge is a chaotic, unpredictable influence, like a piece of artillery rolling around on a boat...there should be a name for that...and may or may not use Trump's lame-ass limp-dick IMPOTUS excuses, which in turn will hand the DOJ their appeal. Even Team Trump has now admitted under oath they had things they weren't allowed I quoted them in my previous post.

There is no useful defense here, not even privilege.

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Under "Presidential Records":

Very handy, thanks for taking the time. Yes, there's a reason 2201 wasn't on the warrant, it's because it was as irrelevant as Executive Privilege.

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Another line in Team Trump's filing sticks out, but it's one we've seen before.

Second, the Government’s stance assumes that if a document has a
classification marking, it remains classified irrespective of any actions taken during
President Trump's term in office.

See, this is why you can't just think "I deem it declassified" and expect that shit to work. NARA knows full well what was declassified, because you're supposed to write that shit down. Didn't tell anyone? Then you didn't declassify it.

Oh, and of course, Trump isn't allowed to steal government property, even if it's declassified. It's still not his. Master Horus already proved that.

[beanman12345]

Again going to point out if something is executive privilege that makes it by definition government property and thus stolen.

Yeah, Trump's own lawyers conceded this today. But when someone tries to communicate very basic things to the type of person who literally requested sex tapes involving their beloved Trump on an internet forum this past week, I doubt much of anything is getting through.

[Breccia]

Again going to point out if something is executive privilege that makes it by definition government property and thus stolen.

Yeah, Trump's own lawyers conceded this today.

It's not like Team Trump has a choice. He was caught with material he was told he needed to hand over, and not because of Jan 6th, but because he wasn't allowed to have it. And he blatantly didn't do it.

It really feels like Team Trump (and the rabid fanbase) is now trying to defend Trump against the next crime, because they know that the documents he stole could easily be evidence in that case, too. We'll revisit the idea of privilege and the grand jury subpoena later, I'm sure, but that's not the issue with this court case.

I wonder how long before the judge just gives up, names the obviously-biased Trump suggestion for special master, just to get the whole thing appealed so it's not her problem anymore.

[Edge-]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/plaint...ke-my-name-off

Reminder: Don't trust Republicans.

Voter for Laura Loomer (lol) in FL was added on as a plaintiff to a lawsuit claiming election fraud. Lady had no idea she was on the lawsuit and wants the fuck off because she's seen no election fraud. How'd she get on? A fellow Loomer-voter told her to talk to a shady as fuck lawyer, who added her to the lawsuit without asking or telling her.

Just a reminder that the majority of the folks on the right seem to be fairly unethical, undisciplined grifters and liars.

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https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status...88802462261248

British media continuing to do a better job of trying to get Republicans to answer questions by simply repeating them each time the Republican gives a non-answer.

Why did Trump bring hundreds, or more, of classified documents back to his private residence, and maybe also Bedminster?

"It was a paperwork issue."

According to Jared Kushner who really doesn't want to talk about it.

I dunno, but I'm getting big, "Locker room talk" vibes on this one.

[YUPPIE]

I can guarantee that doesn't fucking happen. Trump has only lost support since January 6th.

Relative to the real world, the right-wing control the entirety of the internet. Everywhere you go, it's shilling Trump and the Republicans.

[Edge-]

Relative to the real world, the right-wing control the entirety of the internet. Everywhere you go, it's shilling Trump and the Republicans.

Citation needed*

[YUPPIE]

Citation needed*

what's left of /rdonald largely fragmented, mostly going over to /pol/, Youtube, Facebook.

Those are my cited places. And they're not insignificant but a great threat to projecting misinformation on social media.

[Breccia]

Relative to the real world--

Well, I guess that explains where you're posting from. Wake me when the internet gets a vote. Trump lost and is continuing to lose, get over it.

[Edge-]

what's left of /rdonald largely fragmented, mostly going over to /pol/, Youtube, Facebook.

Those are my cited places. And they're not insignificant but a great threat to projecting misinformation on social media.

So circles that were largely rabidly pro-Trump historically are still rabidly pro-Trump? That's wild, though I do hope you leave your echo chambers every once in a while.

In other news: https://twitter.com/lmresists/status...00820262375424

We don't deserve Al Franken.

For all the crying about CNN being "fAr LEfTIsT", their analyst goes on and tries to claim that what McConnell did to Merrick Garland was fine because "it's what's been done historically with a divided government."

Al Franken repeatedly asks for an example, she is left stumbling over her own words until she admits that the only actual historical example is...Merrick Garland.

Which this is just a reminder about how Roberts and the Republican parties partisan bullshit destroyed the legitimacy of the SCOTUS.

[Endus]

So circles that were largely rabidly pro-Trump historically are still rabidly pro-Trump? That's wild, though I do hope you leave your echo chambers every once in a while.

In other news: https://twitter.com/lmresists/status...00820262375424

We don't deserve Al Franken.

For all the crying about CNN being "fAr LEfTIsT", their analyst goes on and tries to claim that what McConnell did to Merrick Garland was fine because "it's what's been done historically with a divided government."

Al Franken repeatedly asks for an example, she is left stumbling over her own words until she admits that the only actual historical example is...Merrick Garland.

Which this is just a reminder about how Roberts and the Republican parties partisan bullshit destroyed the legitimacy of the SCOTUS.

In a reasonable world, shit like that would get Alice Stewart fucking fired and disgraced. And it shouldn't be Franken's job to call her to account for pushing bullshit propaganda like that, it should've been the host. Jim Acosta is fucking up royally by letting her spread shit like that on his show. That, or he's complicit.

[AntiFascistVoter]

HAs the press figured out what Trump is doing in DC current?
Did he go to Red Lobster with Maggie Haberman?
Did he go to the CNN office to have John Licht kiss ass?

[Edge-]

HAs the press figured out what Trump is doing in DC current?

News media are picking up on the online theorizing and reporting it, many, many, many hours after the pictures/video went public.

We're their content for SEO editorial managers.

[AntiFascistVoter]

News media are picking up on the online theorizing and reporting it, many, many, many hours after the pictures/video went public.

We're their content for SEO editorial managers.

To be fair, only half of the DC press is waiting for their bosses approval.

The other half are saving as an exclusive for their upcoming book.

[Breccia]

HAs the press figured out what Trump is doing in DC current?

No, and the lack of information suggests it wasn't a big deal. If Trump was arrested, his kids would be screaming for a second murderous insurrection by now.

[Edge-]

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-worki...arrest-1742184

So Trump apparently went to DC to "work" at his DC golf course. Which would explain the attire and all, and the local leo showing up as escort.

Darn, who could have guessed Twitter hyperbole wouldn't be remotely accurate.

[Breccia]

Once again, the cultists Trump has drawn to his party.

A Texas woman has been charged with threatening to kill the federal judge presiding over a dispute between Trump and the Department of Justice about records seized in an FBI raid of Trump’s home last month.

An FBI special agent said Tiffani Shea Gish of Houston left three threatening voicemails for the chamber telephone of Judge Aileen Cannon of U.S. District Court in southern Florida, according to a criminal complaint filed Sept. 6.

Identifying herself as the fictional Russian agent Evelyn Salt, Gish claimed to be “in charge of nuclear” for the government, a federal agent and “Trump’s hitman” who had a “license to kill,” according to transcribed excerpts of the calls included in the complaint.

Gish’s pseudonym is the same name as the protagonist played by Angelina Jolie in the 2010 action film Salt.

Trump is “marked for assassination and so are you,” Gish said in--

"Whoa whoa whoa! Why would Trump's hit man mark Trump for execution?"

Please, stop trying to put logic and reason into Trump supporters.

Trump is “marked for assassination and so are you,” Gish said in the expletive-filled messages, the complaint showed. “You’re full of shit, and I’m going to fucking have you shot myself. I’ve already ordered snipers and a bomb to your fucking house,” Gish allegedly said in the voicemails, all of which were made on Sept. 1.

When agents came to her residence on Sept. 4, Gish would initially only speak through a balcony window, but eventually invited the agents in and spoke with them for about 45 minutes

I swear, I'm not making that up.

the complaint said. Gish in that interview said she left the voicemails from her cellphone, and also confirmed that a Facebook account with posts echoing the language of the voicemails belonged to her, according to the complaint.

Gish was charged in U.S. District Court in Houston with one count of influencing a federal official by threat and one count of interstate communications with a threat to kidnap or injure.

Magistrate Judge Peter Bray on Friday ordered Gish detained pending trial, saying she “appears to suffer from severe mental impairments with symptoms including paranoia and delusions.”

"OMG, gee, what was your first clue that she was insane?"

Her name is "Tiffani" with an i.

A federal prosecutor had asked for a competency examination of Gish, writing in a court filing that her “past conduct shows delusional conduct where she claimed to be a CIA agent, a Navy SEAL, an Army Ranger, and someone familiar with nuclear weapons or war, all while intermixing threats to public officials such as Former President Donald Trump or former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.”

"Whoa whoa and again whoa! If she's threatening both sides here, how do we know she's a Trump supporter?

Well, she's insane. Based on what we've heard in court so far, that's Trump's camp.

Also, I decided, on a whim, to wander over to her facebook page and...this.

WE HAVE 100,000 SNIPERS IN THE AREA
TRUMP IS IN FACT PRESIDENT
CROOKS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE ANYWAY
SHEA IS OUR STAR AGENT IN THIS

And this

BUT SHEA IS ACTUALLY A FEDERAL AGENT AND WORKS FOR THE CIA, TRUMP, PUTIN AND OUR TRUE COVERT TEAM WHO ARE IN FACT METALLICA, KEANU, DAVID WHO ALSO IS A FEDERAL AGENT, KEVIN JAMES AND MELISSA MCCARTHY
ZUCKERBERG IS HEAD OVER OUR TEAM.
SURPRISE FUCKNUTS
YOU WILL ALL BE SHOT AT MINIMUM

-- both Oct 2017

So, yeah. Insane + all caps = Trump supporter until proven otherwise. I have to admit, however, I'd not only 100% believe Keanu was a CIA hitman, but also, I would pay $100 to see him jam with Metallica.

[Edge-]

Identifying herself as the fictional Russian agent Evelyn Salt, Gish claimed to be “in charge of nuclear” for the government, a federal agent and “Trump’s hitman” who had a “license to kill,” according to transcribed excerpts of the calls included in the complaint.

Seriously, for how much they hate Hollywood and all, these people all think their the stars of some wild action/spy movies and shit.

WE HAVE 100,000 SNIPERS IN THE AREA

Big disappointed we didn't get the navy seal copypasta outta her. Daughter, I am disappoint.

[Breccia]

Seriously, for how much they hate Hollywood and all, these people all think their the stars of some wild action/spy movies and shit.

I mean, Trump did say he'd run into a school shooting. That perfectly matches your theory.

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So Trump apparently went to DC to "work" at his DC golf course.

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/0...lub-on-monday/