Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

... even though those seats were for the family.

Actually, Trump could have been invited regardless. He wasn't. Kind of conflicts with the narrative he's trying to spin about how the UK loved him so much.

Boris Johnson was invited, tho.

[Flarelaine]

Actually, Trump could have been invited regardless. He wasn't. Kind of conflicts with the narrative he's trying to spin about how the UK loved him so much.

Boris Johnson was invited, tho.

All former Prime Ministers were, so nothing special there.

Side note: A commentator in the stream mentioned that her first Prime Minister (Churchill) was 101 years older than her last (Truss). Mindboggling.

[Breccia]

In the ongoing effort to prove he is a loathsome sentient life form, Trump calls out the GA DA by suggesting she sleeps all the time.

Based on...something...I guess?

He was, of course, talking about the phone call in which he demanded Raffensperger find more votes.

He claimed that those on the call “had no problems with the call, and didn’t voice any objections or complaints about anything that I said on the call which could be construed as inappropriate.”

Um...that's the opposite of what's true. Raffensperger did have a problem and did raise objections. Now, Trump might be suggesting that nobody said anything during the call itself. Of course, we have the transcript so...yeah.

I suspect Trump is raging about it recently because it came up recently. I think there was a court development that Trump doesn't like. Wonder what it is.

[Paranoid Android]

Videos show allies of Donald Trump and contractors who were working on his behalf handling sensitive voting equipment in a Georgia county weeks after the 2020 election. It was not immediately clear what, if anything, was done with any data.

So this is new evidence of them actually inside the office of where the machines were handled (video in link). First it was reported that they were just outside of the office and not in the room. One person said it was only minutes but now this new video shows it was hour(s).

In the CNN link they lead off that "spent hours inside the restricted area. The same day a voting system was breached". So none of this hard evidence of them breaking into and manipulating the machines just yet. There is now evidence of the lie of time spent and them having access to a restricted area that they should not have.

[Breccia]

In the CNN link they lead off that "spent hours inside the restricted area. The same day a voting system was breached".

Let me make this clear: unless it turns out this was a secret but sanctified, official exam -- I feel it's safe to say it wasn't -- then there is no defense for this behavior. Even "We were looking for fraud but found none" is not an acceptable defense. Incidentally, I think this is what happened. I think some cultists were so divorced from reality that they actually believed Trump won because he said so, and went looking for fraud, and either found nothing or actually found proof there was no fraud. Either way, they broke in and hacked an election machine. You don't get to do that without going to jail, regardless of your intentions.

Those machines should be replaced. They were probably going to do that anyhow. If the people in the video are caught, they should also bear the cost of that replacement. I don't think they will, I think voting machines are probably surprisingly expensive, but let them declare bankruptcy on the way to jail. I hear it's about to be very popular with cultists...

[Edge-]

https://www.lawfareblog.com/trump-fi...eventh-circuit

This investigation of the 45th President of the United States is both unprecedented and misguided. In what is at its core a document storage dispute that has spiraled out of control, the Government wrongfully seeks to criminalize the possession by the 45h President of his own Presidential and personal records.

That's the opening line to Trump's response to the DOJ.

To clarify a few things -

This is technically a "documents storage" issue, but it involves classified documents so it's a bit more serious than just, "Trump kept some photographs he was supposed to give back to the White House."

But also worth noting: Trump does not own any government documents. Every document marked classified or otherwise is the property of the federal government. He does not own them. Similarly, documents produced in an official capacity while he was president are the property of the federal government. There are mechanisms to request the original documents, or copies, through the archives if he would like to retain some of the non-classified federal documents from his time in office. But he didn't do that so...here we are.

[Breccia]

But he didn't do that so...here we are.

Hey, if these were "his" personal records, why did he give the first batch back?

[Endus]

https://www.lawfareblog.com/trump-fi...eventh-circuit

That's the opening line to Trump's response to the DOJ.

To clarify a few things -

This is technically a "documents storage" issue, but it involves classified documents so it's a bit more serious than just, "Trump kept some photographs he was supposed to give back to the White House."

But also worth noting: Trump does not own any government documents. Every document marked classified or otherwise is the property of the federal government. He does not own them. Similarly, documents produced in an official capacity while he was president are the property of the federal government. There are mechanisms to request the original documents, or copies, through the archives if he would like to retain some of the non-classified federal documents from his time in office. But he didn't do that so...here we are.

Remember, espionage is just a "documents storage issue", apparently. Just like bank robbery is just a "currency storage issue".

[Gelannerai]

Remember, espionage is just a "documents storage issue", apparently. Just like bank robbery is just a "currency storage issue".

It’s yet more non-committal pablum from Trump’s legal team, because the only two actual defenses they could bring to bear in this case are also admittance to criminal acts. It’s a painfully obvious stall, because that’s all they have now.

[cubby]

Trump has violate the law, objectively, and should be facing criminal charges, of Espionage and other related crimes.

Which is why we see Trump doing what he's done his entire life, dodging and diverting, lying and conniving, attempting to avoid responsibility for his actions. He's a liar and con man, the worst of everything that embodies Grifters, and the GQP decided he should be Resident, because "her emails" - and all the other lies the GQP put forth in their multi-decade hate campaign.

That Trump will be indicted is almost a foregone conclusion. I think Garland is only delaying because of the elections, which is a whole other can of discussion worms.

The biggest issue that I see coming is how they will pick a jury to hear the case. At the least, Trump can't know who the jurors are - they would almost certainly be killed, and for sure lifetime victims of harassment by the fuckwit ignorant right. There is precedent for having a jury be not visible to the defendant - mob cases are a good example. I have some ideas about how I would do it, but I'm sure Garland has a small team of legal geniuses working on this right now.

- - - Updated - - -

Remember, espionage is just a "documents storage issue", apparently. Just like bank robbery is just a "currency storage issue".

It's really the best defense they can try to bring, in a case where Trump is objectively guilty of the crime. And I don't use that term lightly, objectively guilty, but the requirements for the charge are so cut and dried - that Trump is defacto guilty of violating the Espionage Act.

[Rasulis]

... even though those seats were for the family.

According to British newspaper The Telegraph, the leader of the U.S.—whoever they would have been at the time of the queen's death—would have been seated in the same fashion, with members of the royal family, past and present U.K. prime ministers, and Commonwealth leaders taking precedent.

With royal protocol dictating that Commonwealth leaders outrank those from other parts of the world at the Queen's funeral, it meant that Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was seated nine rows ahead of Biden.

According to the newspaper, governor-generals from realms where the British sovereign was retained as head of state were seated first, with elected Commonwealth leaders behind them.

In accordance with protocol, the governors-general of the realms that retain the monarch as their head of state, were seated first with and elected Commonwealth leaders behind them.

This meant that leaders of such countries as Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, and the Caribbean islands Jamaica, St. Lucia, and St. Vincent and the Grenadines were included among those who would have been seated ahead of the U.S. president.

Despite the seating position, Biden was allowed one major privilege, as he was granted permission to arrive at the service in the presidential armored limousine, dubbed "The Beast," which had been flown over from the U.S. for the brief visit.

Yes. Trump probably would have thrown a fit.

[Edge-]

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...-lago-00057805

Judge Raymond Dearie pushed Trump’s lawyers repeatedly for refusing to back up the former president’s claim that he declassified the highly sensitive national security-related records discovered in his residence.

“You can’t have your cake and eat it too,” said Dearie, the “special master” picked by U.S. District Court Judge Aileen Cannon to vet Trump’s effort to reclaim the materials taken by federal investigators.

Trump has argued that the 11,000 documents taken from Mar-a-Lago were rightfully in his possession, including about 100 bearing classification markings that suggest they contain some of the nation’s most closely guarded intelligence.

Methinks they can't actually prove these were declassified because they're not actually declassified.

[Gelannerai]

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...-lago-00057805



Methinks they can't actually prove these were declassified because they're not actually declassified.

Think they’re regretting going for the Special Master yet? The guy is preemptively shredding what little credible defense they could’ve mounted.

[Edge-]

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...-lago-00057805



Methinks they can't actually prove these were declassified because they're not actually declassified.

More on this - https://lawandcrime.com/trump/as-far...ns-at-hearing/

“The government gives me prima facie evidence that these are classified documents,” Dearie said, referring to the plain markings on the records. “As far as I’m concerned, that’s the end of it.”

Dearie gave Trump’s lawyer James Trusty ample opportunity to explain why his consideration shouldn’t end there.

Want to know where the cake line came from? It was in direct response to this -

On the eve of the hearing, Trump’s lawyers had filed a four-page letter urging Dearie to back off from his demand that they disclose declassification arguments.

“We respectfully submit that the time and place for affidavits or declarations would be in connection with a Rule 41 motion that specifically alleges declassification as a component of its argument for return of property,” Trusty wrote in the filing. “Otherwise, the Special Master process will have forced the Plaintiff to fully and specifically disclose a defense to the merits of any subsequent indictment without such a requirement being evident in the District Court’s order.”

The government showed their homework that yes, these are indeed still classified documents.

Thus far Team Trump has not shown their homework, but they swear it's done and sitting in their backpack. Pinky swear.

[cubby]

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...-lago-00057805

Judge Raymond Dearie pushed Trump’s lawyers repeatedly for refusing to back up the former president’s claim that he declassified the highly sensitive national security-related records discovered in his residence.

“You can’t have your cake and eat it too,” said Dearie, the “special master” picked by U.S. District Court Judge Aileen Cannon to vet Trump’s effort to reclaim the materials taken by federal investigators.

Trump has argued that the 11,000 documents taken from Mar-a-Lago were rightfully in his possession, including about 100 bearing classification markings that suggest they contain some of the nation’s most closely guarded intelligence.

Methinks they can't actually prove these were declassified because they're not actually declassified.

Trump can't. Because he would have had to follow the rules and ask permission - two things he's genetically unable to do. Anyone who is familiar with Trump and knows the declassification process will know that Trump didn't declassify any documents.

Those poor fuckers who represent Trump are in a world of hurt, but they knew what they were getting into.

[Breccia]

Think they’re regretting going for the Special Master yet?

No.

If they hadn't pushed for one, the FBI would already have everything by now. They are trying to stall, not win.

[Rasulis]

No.

If they hadn't pushed for one, the FBI would already have everything by now. They are trying to stall, not win.

“How am I going to verify the classification? ... What business is it of the court?” Dearie asked during the Tuesday hearing. The judge suggested that the DOJ had given “prima facie evidence” that the records were classified and said that “as far as I’m concerned, that’s the end of it.”

Trump's legal team next move?

[Edge-]

Trump's legal team next move?

"Nuh uh"

Probably.

[Rasulis]

Trump can't. Because he would have had to follow the rules and ask permission - two things he's genetically unable to do. Anyone who is familiar with Trump and knows the declassification process will know that Trump didn't declassify any documents.

Those poor fuckers who represent Trump are in a world of hurt, but they knew what they were getting into.

Christopher M. Kise, formerly the solicitor general of Florida, agreed to defend Trump with an "unusually high" $3 million retainer, The New York Times reported on Friday, citing two unnamed sources familiar with the matter.

Somebody is being smart. Did the other attorneys in the team also got paid in advance?

[Breccia]

“as far as I’m concerned, that’s the end of it.”

"Team Trump picked the wrong guy!"

No. Team Trump could never have won this fight.

As @cubby and others...soooo many others...keep saying, except maybe that one guy, the issue with classified documents is they're fucking classified. That doesn't magically turn off because Trump waves his hand and thinks hard. No record of declassification = still classified.

Team Trump did finally admit the relevant by refusing to say anything under oath -- they know they're about to see their client charged but don't know which of the many laws he broke will be first. They should also strongly suspect by now, if not outright know, Trump didn't declassify anything but they can't contradict him either.

The next legal move? If I had to guess, it's "piss off the judge". Team Trump has already been given far more credit than he deserves on the merits. If he asks for yet more help, I don't think even this judge will be so forgiving.