Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Ripster42]

The article I quoted threw cold water on the idea.

I couldn't find the word discovery in either of the axios articles you linked. Discovery occurs in basically all civil trials. The conspiracy theory is nonsense. It's just musk either trying to get out of the deal or trying to renegotiate the price. Who knows if it will work, but if he gets sued, he'll absolutely get discovery.

[Edge-]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/01/polit...-us/index.html

Rep. Chip Roy, a Texas Republican, has twice in the past three days promoted a fictional online rumor that Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau fled to the United States because of a protest in Ottawa by a group of truck drivers and others opposed to vaccine mandates, Covid-19 restrictions and Trudeau himself.

Roy even called for Trudeau, who was not in the US, to be deported.

Chip Roy is a fucking dishonest retard. That's all.

[Breccia]

I couldn't find the word discovery in either of the axios articles you linked.

It does say

they're peddling a theory that Musk only walked away to spark a lawsuit that will force Twitter to reveal additional "bot" data in court

which I believe is the issue you were talking about.

[Ripster42]

It does say
which I believe is the issue you were talking about.

Yeah, those people are dumb, but the article isn't saying musk isn't going to get discovery, just that that's a dumb take.

[Endus]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/01/polit...-us/index.html

Chip Roy is a fucking dishonest retard. That's all.

Reality: Truck convoy morons claimed they were gonna retake the Capital after their failed bullshit last time, and a grand total of like 40 people actually showed up. I've been to family reunion barbeques in the park with more people present.

They were basically being arrested and towed as soon as they got into the downtown area, if they were trying to pull shenanigans.

Oh, and Tamara Lich got her bail revoked for flagrantly ignoring the terms of her bail; https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...ch-denied-bail

Anyone selling you the idea that the trucker convoy idiots are anything but an ongoing hilarious embarrassment to themselves and their movement is selling you disinformation.

[solinari6]

Axios has tracked down a theory just wild enough to be Trumpian: this was all part of Musk's master plan for Twitter to sue, then in court, reveal how many bots they had. Which wouldn't work. Musk is the one walking away from the contract, he has to prove there's a problem to break the contract.

Here's another theory
How Elon’s bizarre Twitter takeover saga could have just been a cover for him to sell $8.5 billion in Tesla stock

[Breccia]

Yeah, those people are dumb, but the article isn't saying musk isn't going to get discovery, just that that's a dumb take.

We'll find out. Musk will have to be convincing enough that Twitter didn't turn everything over when they said they did. He is claiming that in his filing.

[DarkTZeratul]

Here's another theory
How Elon’s bizarre Twitter takeover saga could have just been a cover for him to sell $8.5 billion in Tesla stock

That one feels more plausible, though it seems like every day I'm less and less convinced that he's a mad genius, and more and more convinced that he's just mad.

This Twitter thread lays out what I think is the most likely sequence of events, which I'm reproducing here because it's frankly not that long:

This is how I remember things: Sometime in April, Elon tried to buy Twitter. Twitter adopted a poison pill. Someone conservative made a stern warning about something something something. (I don’t remember who it was, and googling “Twitter” “poison pill” “warning” isn’t helpful.) So at that point, Twitter (I think) felt like they had to give it the old college try to avoid being sued by people who had money and power. Hence, this merger. I don’t personally know Elon, this is rank speculation, but everything he’s done makes me think that he’s deeply impulsive, incredibly reactive, hyperfocused when he’s on and completely uninterested when he’s not. So: in April, Elon, egged on by his muskrats, thinks that he can save free speech by buying Twitter and liberating it from wokeness and bots. He’s SUPER DUPER into being seen as this. Twitter negs him enough with the poison pill that now he really wants to show them. So now Twitter is negotiating, and Elon wants to get this deal DONE so that he can strike a pose wearing a cape as Free Speech Man.

Twitter…probably super doesn’t love the idea of Elon? But they also love not being sued. So they’re like, “okay, look, we’re negotiating, right? Let’s just make this contract language EGREGIOUS. And then we can say we didn’t come to terms etc etc etc.” But Elon doesn’t WANT to not come to terms. He wants to be Free Speech Man with a cape made of specific performance. So his lawyers are like, “yo, Elon, you REALIZE that if you want to walk away from this deal, you will be ON THE HOOK?” In this moment, Elon—remember, my head canon of him is both reactive and focused and impulsive, and I don’t actually know him personally!—says, “but I don’t WANT to walk away! Why do I care about this thing that will never come to pass?” So that’s how Elon signed.

And then reality set in. People weren’t hailing him as a defender of free speech—not enough of them. People were like “UGH Elon, he actually wants to DESTROY all our fun, he’s a fun hater who wants the NAZIS to take over everything." People were saying things like, “okay Mr. Musk is your position that people can just post endless photos of tubgirl to this bird app? Because that will destroy it completely.” And Elon’s advisors were saying things like, “um, yes, so what exactly IS your plan for dealing with things like tubgirl?” And he was like, “UGH this is hard can’t we just make it all free speech?”

No, Elon, not unless you want this app to become tubgirl spam. So he wasn’t getting praise and adulation and instead he was being asked to think about how to deal with the people who just take delight in being little shits. Not for free speech. Not for politics. Just to be little shits. In the mean time, people are questioning his judgement as Mr. Great Leader. Owning Twitter is becoming less like a beautiful, billowing free speech cape and more like spiked shackles where every spike is a minute detail that he truly does not care about. At this point, he wants out of the deal. And so he goes to his lawyers and says, “so how do we get out of this?” His lawyers very likely hang up the phone after the conversation and scream “AAAAAAAH!” at top volume for fifteen minutes straight, and then bill him for the time.

This is the point when he starts in on the bot stuff. He asks for an annoying level of information about bots. Some of what he asks for is very likely not actually generated or monitored by Twitter. But he asks for it. Retrospectively. Daily. “We don’t keep that level of detail,” Twitter says. This is great, from Elon’s perspective. He can say that he asked and ASKED and asked and Twitter didn’t provide. In the meantime, Tesla stock is tanking and Elon is probably realizing that it’s gonna be way more expensive than the thought to finance his purchase, and possibly it may not even be doable. But he ABSOLUTELY CANNOT say “I don’t have the money” because that will disrupt everyone’s view of him as the Deal Guy With Money. They’re going to think of him as the person whose check for Twitter bounced.

So he goes harder on the bot thing. He tells everyone he materially relied on Twitters statements about the bots, even though when the deal was inked he was like, “wow this place is FULL of bots, I’m gonna fix that,” which sure indicates he didn’t rely on that. He fucks around on Twitter, making fun of individuals and getting his followers to go after them, hoping that Twitter will try to back out of the deal first. Finally, when it’s clear that Twitter is just not going to let him off scot free when he signed a contract legally requiring him to pay 44 billion dollars, he claims they’ve materially breached the requirement to give him the data he wants.

Now: Do I know that this is what happened? No. Because I’m not psychic and I wasn’t there. But does this fit the facts and my profile of Elon as someone impulsive who loves praise? Yes. Very much.

[Breccia]

The show must go on. Bannon's attempt to delay his trial has failed.

Bannon will now go to the stand to explain why he didn't respond to a Congressional subpoena. Well, "explain" isn't enough. He'll need documents at this point. I don't think "I forgot" or "I just didn't want to" is enough in this case. The judge has already thrown out Bannon's "defense strategy" that said the prosecution had to prove Bannon knew he had to comply. You know, mind reading.

I'm curious why he even tried it, barring the "throw everything at the wall" spray-and-pray approach of course. When was the last time any of y'all said "Your Honor, the police needs to prove I saw the stop sign". Or, just as good, when was the last time just not showing up to trial meant the ticket went away? I'm guessing "never" but please leave your answers as replies. As per usual, anyone who doesn't respond with a personal anecdote is assumed to have never done this, or at least not successfully.

Having followed this case with, let's be honest, unrestrained glee, I have a prediction: Bannon won't bother defending himself in any conventional way, and instead, make pleas to the jury along the lines of "if they do this to me, they can do it to you!" Which, yes, if a jury member does later get involved in committing treason, yes they're going to get called to the stand. Anyhow he's going to try to sucker at least one jury member to dismiss, and quite frankly, that's his best shot. He has no valid legal defense left and is guilty as hell.

But let's get this out of the way -- as many of you have pointed out, Bannon wasn't a WH employee at the time. He had no reason to believe he had privilege. As I posted in the last 24 hours or so, Trump never gave Bannon privilege anyhow. And changing his mind and responding to a subpoena now, does not change that he refused to when it was served. "The cops eventually caught me" does not make you innocent of resisting arrest.

He might not be convicted, but he's going to squirm, on camera I hope, for a while.

[Gorsameth]

The show must go on. Bannon's attempt to delay his trial has failed.

Bannon will now go to the stand to explain why he didn't respond to a Congressional subpoena. Well, "explain" isn't enough. He'll need documents at this point. I don't think "I forgot" or "I just didn't want to" is enough in this case. The judge has already thrown out Bannon's "defense strategy" that said the prosecution had to prove Bannon knew he had to comply. You know, mind reading.

I've never been subpoenaed but I assume they don't just put a notice in the local paper that you have to turn stuff over. You can't claim to not know you have to comply after someone physically hands you the legal document stating you have been subpoenaed.
How would such a defence ever work Oo (obviously it doesn't which is why the judge threw it out).

[Edge-]

https://apnews.com/article/campaigns...d667a773aefce3

Let's talk about the Republican Senatorial Committee, and Oklahoma PAC boosting Republicans (obviously).

Well...they won't exist for much longer as they're dissolving following paying a $60K fine after violating multiple campaign finance rules.

Now this isn't much of a victory lap since they'll surely reform under a new name with almost all the exact same people, but it's a least a bit of extra cash for the states general fund and will take them some time/money to spin up a new PAC.

[Breccia]

How would such a defence ever work

I think, and this is giving Bannon's team more credit than Trump's, that Bannon was clinging to "I have privilege" for dear life, and it finally bucked him hard. If that's the case, Bannon was trying to force the prosecution to prove that he knew privilege didn't apply.

Like you said, it didn't work. But considering Bannon never had a real defense, you can't blame him for trying Alternative Defenses. Well, of course you can, he's making a mockery of the justice system, but he had nothing else except admitting guilt.

[gondrin]

I think, and this is giving Bannon's team more credit than Trump's, that Bannon was clinging to "I have privilege" for dear life, and it finally bucked him hard. If that's the case, Bannon was trying to force the prosecution to prove that he knew privilege didn't apply.

Like you said, it didn't work. But considering Bannon never had a real defense, you can't blame him for trying Alternative Defenses. Well, of course you can, he's making a mockery of the justice system, but he had nothing else except admitting guilt.

You know, they have a thing for Alternative stuff. Alt-right, Alternative facts, defenses. They like to accuse liberals of living an alternative lifestyle and being counter culture but all I see is the far right embracing the Alternative stuff. Projection must still be the rule of the day.

[Kaleredar]

I've never been subpoenaed but I assume they don't just put a notice in the local paper that you have to turn stuff over. You can't claim to not know you have to comply after someone physically hands you the legal document stating you have been subpoenaed.
How would such a defence ever work Oo (obviously it doesn't which is why the judge threw it out).

I think they're hoping against hope that they can stall this out until enough sympathetic people can be placed into positions of power at the state, federal, and congressional levels that their trials effectively get tossed out and/or they get pardoned.

[cubby]

I think they're hoping against hope that they can stall this out until enough sympathetic people can be placed into positions of power at the state, federal, and congressional levels that their trials effectively get tossed out and/or they get pardoned.

I would agree.

Trump's entire life has been about breaking the law and then suing his victims into submission. Those subpoena's can be appealed before they are complied with, and that's where him and the GQP/Y'all-Quida asshats are headed. They are hoping to wait out until 2023 when the Jan 6 Committee will be dissolved (assuming here that the GQP wins the House), making all that go away. And then of course holding out as long and as hard as possible until 2025, when a GQP President will stand down all investigations and trials of Trump and his co-conspirators. 2025 is a LONG way away, and it will be interesting to see how the Attorney General's investigations and trials play out while the GQP House is Impeaching Biden every other week.

[Breccia]

"Everyone" is posting about Musk vs. Twitter, but it's nothing but predictions at this point. Expert predictions, but predictions.

So instead, I'll link this NYTimes poll that says 49% of Republicans would vote for Trump in the 2024 primaries if he ran. Yes, he's under half.

Yes, DeSantis is second.

[Kathandira]

"Everyone" is posting about Musk vs. Twitter, but it's nothing but predictions at this point. Expert predictions, but predictions.

So instead, I'll link this NYTimes poll that says 49% of Republicans would vote for Trump in the 2024 primaries if he ran. Yes, he's under half.

Yes, DeSantis is second.

After all that has come out, he still has a 49% approval rating among conservatives....that is scary.

[Drutt]

After all that has come out, he still has a 49% approval rating among conservatives....that is scary.

Yes, but not very surprising when you consider that they believe the media lies about literally everything yet some anonymous post on 4chan or some random Youtuber is the absolute truth.

Once you close down all sources of credible info, you can continue to believe anything.

[CastletonSnob]

Trump was objectively a worse president than Bush Jr, and it's not really close.

• Only president to be impeached TWICE
• First President in DECADES to leave office with fewer jobs than when they entered office.
• Was a Russian puppet
• Tried to stage a coup
• Actively made a pandemic worse, causing the death of hundreds of thousands of Americans

[Biglog]

It's kind of the same reason that the right makes a lot of comments about Biden's age or they highlight any small stumble. Trump is only 3 years younger than Biden, and he had far more obvious age-related issues during his term like serious issues with simple activity like walking stairs or holding cups. We certainly never saw Trump on a bike.

Yet conservative media today is questioning whether Biden is too old for a 2nd term, oblivious that it means they are arguing Trump is too. Viewers gobble it up because they've thrown all critical thinking out the window. They could tell them up is down and they'd not just believe it, they'd put a sticker for their car and wear a shirt supporting it, and tell everyone they know that they should think the same.