Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Let's give her the same privacy and respect she gave the teenage survivor of a mass shooting at a school.

I actually read a few articles on this, now that it's public. The husband is claiming it's an equitable end of a separated marriage, and for now, I'm willing to accept that.

*ahem*

But.

Remember Kellyanne Conway? Remember George Conway? They're still married. Which means the issue that made the Greene's split must be worse.

Ouch.

[cubby]

And just the faux Christians and pro-life/pro-family party takes a blow today when Perry Greene, Marjorie Taylor Greene's husband, filed for divorce from batshit qtard Marjorie Taylor Greene.

https://www.floydcourts.com/WebCaseM.../mainpage.aspx
Go to Civil Search, type in Greene in name, type today's date September 28th, and bam, there is the court filing.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out, given other conservative couples haven't actually split once the cards were on the table.

[Edge-]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...uptcy-vendors/

Stop me if you've heard this one regarding Trump or a company associated with Trump -

it has failed to pay its bills

Sound familiar? Welp...

A company that organized a lucrative series of post-White House paid speeches for former president Donald Trump is now struggling to pay vendors, investors and employees, angering Trump allies who supported the effort.

The American Freedom Tour, which struck a multimillion-dollar deal with Trump after he left office, has lost two top executives and canceled events in a number of locations as it has failed to pay its bills, according to people familiar with the activities and documents obtained by The Washington Post. Its founder and owner, who has a history of bankruptcy filings, recently sought bankruptcy protection again.

The group has promised events in a number of locales but canceled them before they began and appears to be banking on a large event at Mar-a-Lago in December to turn its financial position around.

With speakers, affiliates and investors all clamoring for their money, one of the people involved who did get paid was Trump, people close to the former president say. Some Trump advisers have warned against doing future events, though Trump has expressed interest.

It’s not clear what that means for the tour’s advertised upcoming black-tie gala at Mar-a-Lago, with tickets starting at $10,000 a couple to spend time with Trump. The event includes a poolside reception and a formal ballroom dinner. Dinner and a photo with Trump costs $40,000, and a private library meeting with Trump is so pricey that it’s only listed as: “INQUIRE BELOW.” The company declined to say how much Trump is being paid for the event.

The company’s CEO, Brian J. Forte, declined to be interviewed for this article. A Trump spokesman did not respond to requests for comment.

“The tour did have some unexpected scheduling issues over the summer that slowed things down, but we are working through it,” said Larry Ward, a spokesman for the company. “We are positioning the tour for greater strength and success going forward.”

The American Freedom Tour started last October, staging glitzy events around the country that resemble Trump rallies but sell tickets ranging from $55 to more than $4,000. In addition to Trump, the shows featured right-wing celebrities such as Candace Owens and Kimberly Guilfoyle, as well as motivational speakers offering personal finance courses.

Essentially, it was a place where Trump supporters could buy a chance to see him and other conservative luminaries — or pay more for special access — with the money not going to a political campaign, but a for-profit company and Trump himself. It was founded by Forte, a motivational-speaker promoter with a long trail of bankruptcy filings and business disputes across the country.

The tour has had a slate of problems, including angry investors, speakers and vendors who have not been paid, according to people familiar with the situation, who like some others spoke on the condition of anonymity to reveal internal details.

Trump joined the group with little vetting, advisers say, and some of his team was not aware of Forte’s business history when told by The Post.

Some unpaid investors are preparing possible legal action, demanding full payment plus interest, according to a demand letter obtained by The Post. If the company doesn’t pay, the group wants Forte to step aside and give them control of the company, according to the letter. Otherwise, they said they will sue.

“Vendors, speakers and other unpaid participants are lining up to collect,” a lawyer working for the investors said in an email to the group. “The intention is still to put a board of governance in place.”

Forte’s spokesman said he didn’t receive a demand letter. “The tour has a solid relationship with its investors,” Ward said.

Ward said the tour was attempting to pay both investors and speakers. “Unforeseen scheduling issues for the programs caused a delay and we asked a limited number of investors if their payment could be delayed until November,” Ward said.

Several speakers other than Trump have not been paid, including prominent Trump allies, a person with direct knowledge of the tour’s finances said.

“We are working very hard to make them whole, and we are confident they will be made whole very soon,” Ward said.

In July the company missed payroll, according to a note to staff from Forte. “We are experiencing some growing pains and all will be OK,” he said in the internal message reviewed by The Post. The spokesman said the company is currently paying its employees.

Forte recently sought personal bankruptcy protection for a fifth time this summer, according to court filings, saying that he owned 100 percent of the American Freedom Tour, earned $19,900 a month, but owed more than $3 million. In a response seeking to dismiss the case, the Justice Department accused Forte of abusing the bankruptcy system to try to thwart foreclosure proceedings and criticized him for traveling to Puerto Rico rather than “making this fifth bankruptcy case a priority.” The government later withdrew its motion at a hearing.

“The bankruptcy filings were over a dispute with a mortgage company,” Ward said, adding: “Mr. Forte visits Puerto Rico frequently but is a legal resident of Florida.”

The financial pressures at the American Freedom Tour led to business practices that some employees found objectionable. In July, the company canceled a planned event in Milwaukee but continued selling tickets online, according to two people familiar with the matter. At times, the company has continued to sell tickets online for events that organizers knew were unlikely to happen, according to two people familiar with the matter.

When another show was canceled in North Carolina, the company initially said it would honor tickets for a future event before agreeing to issue refunds. “We give the option of refunds or rain checks for postponed or canceled events,” Ward said.

The tour’s website currently lists no upcoming events. A planned show in Birmingham, Ala., was also canceled earlier this year.

To promote the events, the company offered a 25 percent commission for ads and social media posts resulting in sales, according to its website. But a Republican Party county chapter in Texas that helped sign up attendees for an event there went unpaid for at least two months, messages show.

“We are awaiting payment and now four months overdue,” Matt Mackowiak, a Republican consultant who leads the local Republican Party in Austin, wrote in an email on Sept. 7. “I will get loud and litigious if not paid by end of week.”

“As you know from reaching out a few weeks ago looking for your payment, I resigned from the American freedom tour on August 3rd,” Chris Widener, the company’s former president and emcee who quit in August, responded. “You are definitely owed the money and should be paid promptly.”

Widener confirmed his resignation in an email but declined to comment on the exchange with Mackowiak, who said he was paid last Friday afternoon “once The Washington Post sought comment.”

Mackowiak said he vetted the company before entering into an agreement with it and heard from others that while it often was slow to make payments, it eventually did. He said he demanded a written contract, “which took more than a month even though it was a simple document,” according to Mackowiak.

“I hope anyone that is owed money uses every legal channel available,” Mackowiak said. A spokesman for the company said they were sorry Mackowiak’s payment was late.

The company also recently lost its chief financial officer, Dale Ainge. In an interview, Ainge said he left the company in June due to a health issue and wished the company well. He said the company had defaulted on two of its loans before he left, and some vendors were complaining they had not been paid.

“They had to cancel a couple events, which caused some financial issues,” he said. “They were behind on things. They were behind on payments. So for me to say, what kind of financial position they’re in? They were a little bit behind in a couple of the notes. There were a couple accounts payable that were past 60 days.”

Ainge said he was paid by the company and that he believed it would turn its fortunes around when he left in June. Ainge said he was approached by Forte to plan events around Trump and conservative speakers, similar to events he held for a company called Get Motivated.

He said some of the events had made money, but others had not and some were canceled even after expensive marketing. “It’s a start-up,” he said. “There are always challenges.”

When the tour was starting, investors were promised to earn 20 percent on their money in six months, according to loan documentation obtained by The Post. But internal emails show that when the money came due, the company failed to pay.

“We needed a little more time,” Forte assured investors in March. “The investment is intact. Please bear with us a couple of weeks.”

By August, Forte still hadn’t provided the money, the emails show. In one email, Forte explained that he was trying to raise more money domestically and overseas and confirm future event dates with Trump. He offered to pay $5,000 in a week while the company closed other deals to be able to pay in full by November.

One person familiar with Forte’s actions said he was constantly trying to hold off speakers, investors and others who were seeking money — “putting the biggest fire out and holding on.”

“You have been an INCREDIBLE supporter of President Trump and the events we are doing,” Forte told an investor in an email. “We would love if you could attend the Gala” at Mar-a-Lago in December. “We would like to honor you there if you are able to make it,” he wrote.

Ainge said Trump was the highest paid speaker but declined to say how much, citing a confidentiality agreement. “It’s in line with the speaking fee of past presidents,” he said.

He said that Trump was the group’s biggest seller, and many supporters wanted to meet him backstage and were willing to pay “thousands and thousands of dollars to do it.” Trump, he said, was freewheeling and congenial to the guests.

Ward, the spokesman for the tour, said Trump had expressed no reservations about participating going forward.

“President Trump has been fantastic to work with,” Ward said. “He has opened Mar-a-Lago to the American Freedom Tour for a gala December 1st. I’m sure he wouldn’t do that if he had reservations about the tour. President Trump loves speaking on the American Freedom Tour. He wants to do more programs.”

So the company running Trump's speaking gigs, and those of other conservative "luminaries", seems to be yet another low-effort, failing grift.

Why does it seem that organizations run by Trump or that Trump works with all end up falling apart as lazy grifts or scams?

[DarkTZeratul]

Remember Kellyanne Conway? Remember George Conway? They're still married. Which means the issue that made the Greene's split must be worse.

That's not fair. Kellyanne and George Conway clearly get off on being fucking awful to each other in public.

[Breccia]

That's not fair. Kellyanne and George Conway clearly get off on being fucking awful to each other in public.

Huh. Well, to each their own, I guess?

‘Giant Backfire’: Trump’s Demand for Special Master Is Looking Like a Mistake

"Starting"?

Now most of this 24-hour-old article is stuff we already know. But one passage looks useful right now:

For example, the judge has ordered Mr. Trump to submit by Friday a declaration or affidavit verifying the inventory or listing any items on it “that plaintiff asserts were not seized” in the search.

But if Mr. Trump acknowledges that the F.B.I. took any documents marked as classified from his personal office and a storage room at Mar-a-Lago, as the inventory says, that would become evidence that could be used against him if he were later charged with defying a subpoena.

Requiring Mr. Trump’s lawyers to verify or object to the inventory also effectively means making them either affirm in court or disavow a claim Mr. Trump has made in public: his accusation that the F.B.I. planted fake evidence. While it is not a crime to lie to Fox News viewers or on social media, there are consequences to lying to a court.

“They thought it was a win to win the first battle, but they didn’t think through what winning that battle would mean with any reputable judge who is appointed as special master,” Julie O’Sullivan, a Georgetown University professor of white-collar law, said. “They can’t anticipate that every judge will give them a complete pass despite the law. It was a political or a public relations strategy, not a legal one.”

So we see here the motivation to not certify the FBI's list. But

"Because it's damaging to my case!"

is not legal grounds for an objection.

The NYTimes goes on to say

Judge Dearie has said they must categorize each document Mr. Trump claims is subject to privilege. They are to say whether they mean attorney-client or executive privilege. And if they claim executive privilege, then they must also distinguish between records that are merely shielded from disclosure to people outside the executive branch and those the executive branch itself supposedly cannot review. They must also explain why each document qualifies for such status.

"You can't have this" is also not a legal defense. "You can't have this because XXX" can be, depending. If Team Trump refuses to give a reason it's inadmissible, it's admissible. Or at least that's my admittedly nonexpert take on the results so far.

[Poopymonster]

UPDATE: Most of this is now confirmed due to now-public filings, including the document scanning companies thing. So the experts were right.

We also have some new information. Team Trump is refusing to certify the DOJ's evidence list, and refusing to declare which items have what kind of privilege, because the "special master" lacks the authority to ask.

And the DOJ is basically just leaning against the wall making sarcastic comments, because they know how this is going to play out. Dearie has asked the plaintiffs who requested him to explain why he should even be there in the first place. They're refusing. So, Dearie will just declare everything the DOJ said to be correct, that nothing is Executive Privileged, and leave. Team Trump might appeal, but the 11th is sitting there with dirty looks and baseball bats, so they probably won't. As mentioned before, this could be a mix of "please don't make us contradict our four-year-old client in public" and stalling. I don't think Dearie is interested in either motive. I think he means business, something Trump is proven to be horrible at.

Now, maybe Team Trump has a legally-sound point regarding the FBI planting evidence, in that the "special master" was not called to handle that exactly. But, the "special master" was asked to review the evidence collected, and Team Trump is refusing to say what that is.


-- the DOJ response to Team Trump's "defense"

See what I meant by sarcastic? Hey, check it out, they used the word "seized"! I wonder if the dang poster who brought that up will be triggered¹.

This leads again to "why would you call a special master then refuse to let them do the job that you specifically asked for?" followed by Team Trump losing that, too.

No wonder Kise wanted off that ship.

---

¹ I wonder if you're allowed to put a list of known grammar Nazis at the end of your posts? We could call it a "sig feil".

Second fav lawyer put this out today.

[Breccia]

Second fav lawyer put this out today.

Dude cited Cobbledick without cracking a smile. Maybe it stops being funny the 100th time it's brought up in law school?

[Paranoid Android]

Holy Mother Eff this judge!

NEW: Judge Cannon rules that Trump does not have to submit affidavit/declaration (as to items allegedly planted by the FBI) *before he has reviewed the seized documents from MAL.

Attached in Link is the legal document or Cannon's ruling.

So after Special Master ruled, she went and said "fuck that" and now says Trump does not have submit and affidavit/declaration (as to items allegedly planted by the FBI) *before he has reviewed the seized documents from MAL.

Blatant disregard and a delay, delay, delay. This is getting serious in what this judge is attempting.

[Edge-]

Holy Mother Eff this judge!

NEW: Judge Cannon rules that Trump does not have to submit affidavit/declaration (as to items allegedly planted by the FBI) *before he has reviewed the seized documents from MAL.

Attached in Link is the legal document or Cannon's ruling.

So after Special Master ruled, she went and said "fuck that" and now says Trump does not have submit and affidavit/declaration (as to items allegedly planted by the FBI) *before he has reviewed the seized documents from MAL.

Blatant disregard and a delay, delay, delay. This is getting serious in what this judge is attempting.

So uh...I assume this is going to be appealed to fuck by the DOJ because...what's the fuckin point of this order other than to give Trump access to these documents that aren't his to begin with?

[Breccia]

This is getting serious in what this judge is attempting.

While I agree, (a) I wonder if this will be appealed because (b) I don't see how it will matter. Team Trump cannot prove anything was planted. If they had that ability, say a video from the cameras the DOJ already knows existed (they got earlier footage, they know where the cameras are) they would have provided it weeks ago.

It looks like their strategy is "wait until the FBI says what items were the most damaging, then claim those were planted". But that's still an...affirmative defense?...and you can't just say that and expect it to be taken seriously. I don't even think Team Trump can demonstrate motive for planting evidence. The "it was a bigly witch hunt" has already been Will Smith'd by the 11th.

Dearie has got to be sick of this shit. Every time Trump cries wolf, the scale tips closer to the DOJ.

- - - Updated - - -

what's the fuckin point

I mean, they have to have the list already or they couldn't have been asked to verify in the first place. So that can't be it. I think Team Trump is trying to get the "special master" to remove some items for them, then go after a smaller list.

It won't work. Trump wasn't allowed to have any of it.

[Paranoid Android]

@Edge and @Breccia.

I'm sure of an appeal, hearing or whatever is needed but this is there to delay. I don't know how long but this is to delay.

Well, if I'm giving Cannon any credit she wants to delay until they get back into power. I guess more here if this is true, is showing a deliberant and egregious cooperation with Trump.

I mean, they have to have the list already or they couldn't have been asked to verify in the first place. So that can't be it. I think Team Trump is trying to get the "special master" to remove some items for them, then go after a smaller list.

It won't work. Trump wasn't allowed to have any of it.

Once more if these lawyers are really this effin dumb, they could be. I just don't understand how they know in their minds this will work. Yes, lawyers try all avenues. But I still say it's a delay.

[Breccia]

Well, if I'm giving Cannon any credit she wants to delay until they get back into power. I guess more here if this is true, is showing a deliberant and egregious cooperation with Trump.

The problem is, two can play that game. If it's clear Cannon is stumping for Trump, so that he can run again, the DOJ can just arrest him based on the objective evidence.

"That's not how the US works!"

Trump literally asked for it in 2016, by promising to have Clinton investigated during the debates. Also, arresting people for objective evidence of their objective guilt is how the US is supposed to work. No-one is above the law. If he didn't want to be arrested, he shouldn't have stolen 200,000 pages of government information. Until then, he can enjoy Cobbledick shoved up his ass.

- - - Updated - - -

But I still say it's a delay.

Cannon has set and to my knowledge not moved a deadline for the "special master". I think he'll adhere to it, and just side with the DOJ on the grounds of "they provided evidence and Trump didn't".

[Paranoid Android]

The problem is, two can play that game. If it's clear Cannon is stumping for Trump, so that he can run again, the DOJ can just arrest him based on the objective evidence.

"That's not how the US works!"

Trump literally asked for it in 2016, by promising to have Clinton investigated during the debates. Also, arresting people for objective evidence of their objective guilt is how the US is supposed to work. No-one is above the law. If he didn't want to be arrested, he shouldn't have stolen 200,000 pages of government information. Until then, he can enjoy Cobbledick shoved up his ass.".

So not being argumentative here and difficult.

I will just say Trump has been giving privilege all the way through. Protected by one of our two Major political parties, protected I guess by sycophants in key places and just the masses. Meaning I hope using kit gloves until it's too late say come around election and it might be over.

Now, the Special Master to my surprise has been good. 11th Circuit has been good. The DOJ and Garland seem to be pursuing this with a fervor.

[Breccia]

Meaning I hope using kit gloves until it's too late say come around election and it might be over.

Yeah, maybe.

The 2024 race without Trump running (one hypothetical at a time) will be brutal, but if the GOP somehow do that and win, they'll get to ask "do we want to get rid of Trump forever?" and they'll find themselves in the position to do exactly that. Trump has been turning on GOP members, some of whom were in the Capitol when Trump ordered the hit on Pence. It's not entirely unfathomable they'll say "I believe in Law and Order" and do the same thing Biden did, let the DOJ decide.

Or, of course, President Harris could roast Trump alive.

[Gorsameth]

Yeah, maybe.

The 2024 race without Trump running (one hypothetical at a time) will be brutal, but if the GOP somehow do that and win, they'll get to ask "do we want to get rid of Trump forever?" and they'll find themselves in the position to do exactly that. Trump has been turning on GOP members, some of whom were in the Capitol when Trump ordered the hit on Pence. It's not entirely unfathomable they'll say "I believe in Law and Order" and do the same thing Biden did, let the DOJ decide.

Or, of course, President Harris could roast Trump alive.

A reminder that the question isn't if the GOP wants to get rid of Trump, They want to for sure, but if they can afford to lose his voters.

As for the Judge, once again I am reminded to be glad that over here a party can ask for a judge to be replaced if they can show the judge is not being objective. And with amount of bullshit this judge is pulling that no other legal expert in the world seems to agree with that shouldn't be to hard.

[Orange Joe]

Sorry if I don't want legal rights and privileges subject to analysis at who it bothers. First Amendment protected speech bothers an absolute ton of people, who might be tempted to outlaw speech they don't like.

Remind me again. Who is banning books currently?

[fwc577]

Today I was banned from r/conservative.

Someone asked why the student debt relief was bad. I replied because Democrats did it so it's bad.

Banned.

How do I file suit against r/conservative in Texas? Surely there are liberal groups already planning class action suits for these whiny cucks!

[Breccia]

whiny cucks

You might be joking, but I hope that's actually what happens. I don't believe there's anything in the laws we've been talking about that say "only for libruls".

[tehdang]

Words have meanings. If you don't know what they mean, maybe you should stop using some. Clearly you don't know what seize or seizing means.

I'm sorry that you dispute the meaning of "seizure," but I suggest you consult a dictionary before doubling down on your definition of implied legal ownership. I'm afraid it's you that don't know what it means, but maybe you've never had anything seized from you before.

Remind me again. Who is banning books currently?

If you define "banning books" as "removing from some grades in the K-12 educational curriculum," then I think members of both sides are in favor of banning books. Some are more after Huckleberry Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird than All Boys Aren’t Blue or Sex Is a Funny Word.

[Breccia]

If you define "banning books" as--

I'm sorry that you dispute the meaning of "ban," but I suggest you consult a dictionary before doubling down on your definition of removal from public places. I'm afraid it's you that don't know what it means, but maybe you've never had anything banned from you or your children before.