Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

If you define "banning books" as "removing from some grades in the K-12 educational curriculum"

And from school and local libraries as well.

Which some "liberal" Libraries are fighting back against by giving access to those books digitally for folks who the library doesn't serve: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...brary-00057828

then I think members of both sides are in favor of banning books.

Bad whataboutism that's in desperate need of qualification and context.

Some are more after Huckleberry Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird than All Boys Aren’t Blue or Sex Is a Funny Word.

Have liberals actually managed to ban those books in school districts? Or are they doing what you say that Republicans are doing - removing it from required reading lists but not actually banning it - https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/1/...nges-continues

And for what it's worth, since I'm sure you'll go here quickly: No, I don't agree with removing it from the curriculum either. But I don't live there, I don't go to school there, and I don't have kids that go to school there so I don't get a say in the vote in the decision to remove the book from the required reading list.

Because there's no actual analog to what Republicans are doing nation-wide, both in schools and at their local libraries.

[Endus]

I'm sorry that you dispute the meaning of "seizure," but I suggest you consult a dictionary before doubling down on your definition of implied legal ownership. I'm afraid it's you that don't know what it means, but maybe you've never had anything seized from you before.

If you define "banning books" as "removing from some grades in the K-12 educational curriculum," then I think members of both sides are in favor of banning books. Some are more after Huckleberry Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird than All Boys Aren’t Blue or Sex Is a Funny Word.

You realize it's largely the same groups on one single side banning both sets of books, right?

[tehdang]

And from school and local libraries as well.

Which some "liberal" Libraries are fighting back against by giving access to those books digitally for folks who the library doesn't serve: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...brary-00057828

Yes, let me add. Some people define banning books as removing from school curriculum. Some define banning books as removing from elementary and high school libraries. Both of them see them for sale and distribution in bookstores as not mattering to their status as banned.

Bad whataboutism that's in desperate need of qualification and context.

I cited examples of current and past book bans from curricula. The news stories surrounding them weren't faked. Are you not aware of what certain activists found objectionable in them?

No, I don't agree with removing it from the curriculum either.

I'm glad to have a solitary example of you bucking the trend. It matters. I'm saddened that your opinion isn't as broadly shared among those in your ideological movement.

[Breccia]

Some people define banning--

You don't get to both claim "seize" has a specific meaning, while "ban" does not. Well, unless you admit you're trolling.

[postman1782]

Sorry if I don't want legal rights and privileges subject to analysis at who it bothers. First Amendment protected speech bothers an absolute ton of people, who might be tempted to outlaw speech they don't like. Prosecutors and cops are really bothered by getting stuff like warrants and demonstrating guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. So if you really want to talk about executive powers, don't act like that's the same thing as questioning what bothers whom.

I do enjoy when people say that public quotes are actually lies, in their pursuit of casting all criticism as lies. When you said "There was no illegitimate election," this contradicts the person Trump ran and won against. It's your quote. Don't pretend you're both contradicting someone, but also not yourself bringing the contradiction into relevance by inveighing against it.

It's pretty easy to keep the same opinion on separation of powers and working within existing systems of power. I don't judge their worth based on the reaction of left-wingers. They have different conceptions on the use and limits on the use of power, and obviously prefer their own when that comes into conflict.

Again, you don't get free speech with ANYONE or ANYTHING, but with the government. So if you are bitching about being banned from Twitter, or Youtube, or even MMO-Champion, you have nothing you can do but suck it up and either make a new account, as long as it isn't bypassing ToS like ban evading like on this website or anything else.

[tehdang]

Again, you don't get free speech with ANYONE or ANYTHING, but with the government. So if you are bitching about being banned from Twitter, or Youtube, or even MMO-Champion, you have nothing you can do but suck it up and either make a new account, as long as it isn't bypassing ToS like ban evading like on this website or anything else.

So, in response to my response to a poster talking about how Biden's executive actions "does not bother anyone," you want to rail against bans from websites. Ok, dude. Maybe you meant to post in another thread, or respond to another poster, because this is entirely non sequitur.

[postman1782]

So, in response to my response to a poster talking about how Biden's executive actions "does not bother anyone," you want to rail against bans from websites. Ok, dude. Maybe you meant to post in another thread, or respond to another poster, because this is entirely non sequitur.

No, you were whining about the first amendment, tell me, where is the government banning your fucking free speech? Again, you were the one whining about it, you better prove it, and don't do it as badly as you did about Trump claiming executive privilege when he doesn't have any.

[The Stormbringer]

Judge Cannon continues to show her colors as the most biased and corrupt judge in all of the US. At least, the most publicly biased and corrupt. What a piece of shit.

Trump: I want a special master!
Cannon: Okay, here you go. Here's one you chose.
Special Master: Trump, do these things.
Trump: I don't wanna!
Cannon: He doesn't have to.

This whole situation is so childish and stupid.

[Cthulhu 2020]

The most recent case had people arguing that Biden's power was absolute, as concerns assertions of executive privilege. Maybe update your rhetoric in light of the behavior of most progs in these parts.

Biden is the current president, and thus has the powers of the executive branch, and nothing more. Trump is the former president and has jack shit for executive powers. That is what people have been saying.

Keep up.

The mere fact that you even believe Trump could declassify documents with his mind, or that he retains the powers reserved only for presidents after he has left office is all we need to see to know that you want him to have absolute power. You don't understand executive authority, you just want to hand it all to a guy who lost a fair election.

Throughout Trump's entire presidency and even into modern day, so many conservatives seem to believe Trump's power is absolute, when in reality they're wrong. They still want Trump to be a king, but they're wrong.

[Twdft]

Throughout Trump's entire presidency and even into modern day, so many conservatives seem to believe Trump's power is absolute,

Funnily enough they don't seem to think Bidens power is absolute. A king would have just thrown Trump into prison and tossed the key.

[Ripster42]

Biden is the current president, and thus has the powers of the executive branch, and nothing more. Trump is the former president and has jack shit for executive powers. That is what people have been saying.
\

Well, sorta. What I've been saying is that his comms with advisors during his presidency don't maintain executive privilege in the face of a legitimate gov't interest, which a criminal investigation is. If there wasn't a criminal investigation (or some other legitimate gov't interest) his comms with advisors while president would still be privileged (and still technically are, you can't file a FOIA request for them, just not from the gov't itself).

[Orange Joe]

I'm sorry that you dispute the meaning of "seizure," but I suggest you consult a dictionary before doubling down on your definition of implied legal ownership. I'm afraid it's you that don't know what it means, but maybe you've never had anything seized from you before.

If you define "banning books" as "removing from some grades in the K-12 educational curriculum," then I think members of both sides are in favor of banning books. Some are more after Huckleberry Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird than All Boys Aren’t Blue or Sex Is a Funny Word.

That is THEE definition of banning yes. Show me a link of democrats banning books

[Cthulhu 2020]

Well, sorta. What I've been saying is that his comms with advisors during his presidency don't maintain executive privilege in the face of a legitimate gov't interest, which a criminal investigation is. If there wasn't a criminal investigation (or some other legitimate gov't interest) his comms with advisors while president would still be privileged (and still technically are, you can't file a FOIA request for them, just not from the gov't itself).

Of course. There's probable cause to believe Trump committed a crime. He DID commit a crime by holding state secrets on nuclear technology. So everything else he "kept" becomes fair game for investigation.

Maybe if he'd just complied with the initial requests to have the records returned, he wouldn't be having these problems. But Trump's life is designed by bad decisions. Daddy gave him millions of dollars and even bailed his ass out. Trump hasn't run successful business in his life without committing multiple crimes to turn a profit. I don't see why anyone thought he'd be any different now. Was probably planning to or already did sell state secrets, and the fucking GQP thinks that's perfectly fine because Trump is their king. Nay, their messiah.

[Breccia]

Stephen Miller suggest Biden should be put in a home for asking about a congresswoman who had died less than a year ago.

"Can you imagine if Andrew Jackson had heard that?" Miller added. "He'd be livid, if he wasn't too busy stopping the Civil War with Frederick Douglass."

[Edge-]

https://wgntv.com/news/bullet-found-...ary-mayor/amp/

Because Republicans are still nice, reasonable people, a local drag show bingo for teens that was to be hosted at a library in Downers Grove has been canceled after the library received a threatening letter with the Confederate flag on it as well as a bullet.

This continues to basically be tantamount to domestic terrorism.

And it seems clear who did it given that the return address was the "MAGA", and the whole Confederate flag bit being pretty exclusive to a singular political party.

[Breccia]

And it seems clear who did it given that the return address was the "MAGA", and the whole Confederate flag bit being pretty exclusive to a singular political party.

Aww, someone's mad that Trump isn't the prettiest at the drag show. They still have Giuliani.

[Corvus]

If there is any doubt where trumps and CPAC's loyalty lies, cpac tweeted then hastily deleted a tweet saying putin had annexed Ukrainian-occupied territories and complained the money being sent there wasn't being used at the southern border.

The internet remembers though.

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/s...NYRxEjBRl6j9QQ

[Kaleredar]

If there is any doubt where trumps and CPAC's loyalty lies, cpac tweeted then hastily deleted a tweet saying putin had annexed Ukrainian-occupied territories and complained the money being sent there wasn't being used at the southern border.

The internet remembers though.

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/s...NYRxEjBRl6j9QQ

Well I mean, let's review:

-Russia is a well documented supporter of Trump and other right-wing groups
-With Russian money basically frozen, these groups cannot get funding from Russia
-Support for Ukraine is exceptionally popular among the American people
-Biden and the democrats have fastidiously supported Ukraine since the beginning and continue to do so

The war in Ukraine is bad news for right-wing groups; Not only does it mean their income is stymied, it gives Biden and the democrats a powerful token of good will with the American people. Since gas prices have settled back down, inflation has proved to be a non-starter, and Trump being legally dragged through the mud is a now-daily occurrence, the GOP is falling back to the tried and true "oh no, the mexicans."

Here's hoping this all royally bites them in the ass.

[Breccia]

Well. Glad I have some CNN points to spend.

Trump launches direct attack on McConnell a month out from midterm elections

Trump on Friday night directly ridiculed Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, saying on his social media platform that the Kentucky Republican had a “death wish” for supporting “Democrat sponsored bills.”

Trump, in his Truth Social post, also mocked McConnell’s wife, Elaine Chao – who was born in Taiwan and served as Trump’s secretary of transportation – referring to her as McConnell’s “China loving wife, Coco Chow!”

I literally do not know if this was some kind of Coco Chanel joke or not. There is a Coco Chow on affordableart.com but I don't think that's what Trump meant.

Trump’s broadside at McConnell and mockery of Chao came hours after Congress approved and President Joe Biden signed a stopgap funding bill to avert a federal government shutdown. The bill cleared the Senate on a 72-25 vote Thursday and the House on a 230-201 vote Friday.

In addition to money to keep government agencies afloat, the short-term funding measure provides around $12 billion for Ukraine, and it includes funding for disaster relief. The measure funds the government through December 16.

“Is McConnell approving all of these Trillions of Dollars worth of Democrat sponsored Bills, without even the slightest bit of negotiation, because he hates Donald J. Trump, and he knows I am strongly opposed to them, or is he doing it because he believes in the Fake and Highly Destructive Green New Deal, and is willing to take the Country down with him?” Trump wrote. “In any event, either reason is unacceptable. He has a DEATH WISH. Must immediately seek help and advise from his China loving wife, Coco Chow!”

It was not clear what bills Trump was criticizing on Friday, or what he meant as he accused McConnell of believing in the Green New Deal, a package of progressive proposals that McConnell blocked from coming to the Senate floor for a vote when he was majority leader.

I think it is clear. Mitch McConnell gives big boost to electoral bill in response to January 6 attack was a headline from the 27th. Trump is mad that McConnell likes the rule of law and order and doesn't like murderous insurrections.

"What does that bill do?"

It says "Pence was right, he can't object to the election and tell Fake Electors to make something up."

In a clear response to Trump’s efforts to get then-Vice President Mike Pence to reject the electoral results of states that President Joe Biden won, both bills establish the vice president’s role as purely ceremonial. The Senate bill would deny the vice president the power to “solely determine, accept, reject, or otherwise adjudicate or resolve disputes over the proper list of electors, the validity of electors, or the votes of electors.”

It shouldn't be necessary, but then, we shouldn't have a sociopath trying to become a dictator through mob rule, so here we are.

Trump has attacked McConnell before, but this is different. He's now saying McConnell is siding with Democrats because he hates Trump. Because, to Trump, it's always about Trump.

By the way, I can't wait to see Trump rally against McConnell at McConnell's re-election, trying to turn the crowd against him. In 2026. Trump can say whatever he wants for another four years, McConnell isn't going anywhere.

[Beefhammer]

I'm sorry that you dispute the meaning of "seizure," but I suggest you consult a dictionary before doubling down on your definition of implied legal ownership. I'm afraid it's you that don't know what it means, but maybe you've never had anything seized from you before.

If you define "banning books" as "removing from some grades in the K-12 educational curriculum," then I think members of both sides are in favor of banning books. Some are more after Huckleberry Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird than All Boys Aren’t Blue or Sex Is a Funny Word.

And again you fail to understand the basics here, well you do but you are just a forum troll peddling disinformation. trump never had ownership of those documents even while he was president. They were always property of the government. He also cannot just declassify shit by thinking about it. He never went through the proper process to declassify anything that was recovered, and much of what was recovered, is not subject to declassification.

I have had property seized, but it was property I owned. trump never owned those documents, so they were recovered.