Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Trump must testify in the rape/defamation suit.

Completing those depositions -- which already have been delayed for years -- would impose no undue burden on Mr. Trump. The defendant should not be permitted to run the clock out on plaintiff's attempt to gain a remedy for what allegedly was a serious wrong.

-- the judge

That sounds like, I dunno, super duper illegal?

Pfft. You sound like literally everyone who's commented so far.

Former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti noted in a Twitter thread, during the employee's first interview, he lied to the FBI, denying handling documents. His story changed during the second interview."

"The employee is unlikely to be charged if he continues to cooperate. But his testimony suggests that Trump tried to keep documents from the DOJ, which had already served a grand jury subpoena for the documents *before* the employee was ordered to move them," Mariotti explained. "This testimony, combined with other facts (such as the false certification to the DOJ) suggests an effort to hide the documents from the federal government. This evidence is an aggravating factor that could weigh in favor of charging Trump."

Former federal prosecutor Richard Signorelli agreed.

"This increases the chance of Trump being indicted after the upcoming election unless [AG Merrick] Garland is dead set against it," Signorelli wrote.

Former Pentagon special counsel Ryan Goodman thought it could also influence a future jury.

"Astonishing level of evidence. That would convince jurors," he wrote.

Goodman noted the story said the testimony was corroborated by security footage.

Former Mueller prosecutor Andrew Weissmann said, "Between this and the testimony of Alex Cannon (to name just two recent developments) Trump's MAL goose is cooked. As I have oft said, the issue is no longer the proof, but DOJ's will."

Harvard Law's Laurence Tribe wrote, "Day by day the evidence that proves Trump personally orchestrated the theft and concealment of top secret documents becomes stronger. Any shadow of a doubt about his guilt is rapidly vanishing."

Trump Threatened to Out Confidential Sources From Russia Investigation

Trump in the final days of his presidency repeatedly threatened to out government sources involved in the Trump-Russia investigation, an anti-Deep State revenge fantasy he still obsesses over to this day, according to two former senior Trump aides and another person familiar with the matter.

One of these sources tells Rolling Stone that in the days after the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, the then-president, sometimes while brandishing pieces of paper, would loudly complain that none of the identifying facts in the highly sensitive Russia documents should be blacked-out. Trump would insist, the source says, that it should “all be out there” so that the American people could see the truth of who “did it” to the president.

Ultimately, top intelligence officials and other Trump lieutenants talked him out of publicizing the sources’ identities before he left the White House, the sources say. Instead, Trump’s team bargained him down to vetting a series of heavily redacted reports that they argued would help safeguard the work and safety of Russia-related informants.

But a third source familiar with the situation says that this obsession with outing the confidential sources is ongoing. The former president, the source says, still sporadically talks about the need to get “the names” out into the public record.

I believe it's not just possible, but likely, that Trump, well-known petty petty person, took documents specifically related to this threat, as we've heard multiple reports that there are known human sources in there.

The number of Republicans who believe Trump’s 'big lie' has fallen since the Jan. 6 hearings

The--

"Is it zero yet?"

Um...no.

"Then it's still too high, and everyone who still believes it is a traitor who can fuck right off."

Speaking of:

Judge sentences entire Texas family for role in Jan. 6 attacks

"Well, I feel better."

Prosecutors asked the judge to sentence parents Dawn and Thomas Munn to one month in prison. A sentence of 21 days in jail was recommended for the couple's three adult children.

In court on Wednesday, Howell stopped short of prison time for the children, according to CBS correspondent Scott MacFarlane.

Kristi Munn received 3 years probation with home detention. Josh Munn and Kayli Munn also received three years probation but avoided home detention.Judge sentences entire Texas family for role in Jan. 6 attacks

"They plead out? Good. So they admit their guilt."

Um...

Before her sentencing, Dawn Munn ranted that she deserved answers about the 2020 election.

"I do not understand why our election is not secure," she told the judge.

"This is not the kind of remorse that indicates some assurance that they're not going to engage [again]," [the judge replied]

- - - Updated - - -

Tied into the ongoing debate about Twitter and free speech --

"Um, it's not a debate. Twitter isn't the government."

See, that's the thing. The emerging alt-right talking point is "companies are as powerful as the government, so it should still apply".

"Wasn't giving companies more money and more power basically a Republican ideal?"

Yes. But they're still bitchy little hypocrites when their own actions turn against them. In this delightfully dense OP ED, the author laments PayPal charging a $2,500 fine for people who spread misinformation. Then goes onto say that, because PayPal is imposing crime-like penalties, they should be treated as the government.

"Um...the PayPal thing was an error. They said so three days ago. What is this author on about?"

Yeah, I guess he couldn't find a better example?

"Doesn't it completely deflate his point if he has no actual examples?"

I did say delightfully dense. But I expect this narrative to continue. YouTube, Twitter, anyone except platforms they own, their blocking of people will be framed as "effectively government actions" despite, you know, them not being a government.

Fortunately, this argument is so dumb even I already have a reply to it: if you want XXX to be treated like the government, you should pay them taxes. Otherwise, they don't work for you. Our government does work for us, that's why we pay them. So unless you're actually paying Twitter's (or whoever's) salary yourself, they're not the government, they're a private body. Just one you disagree with.

And until that day happens, until you start paying taxes to Twitter, TikTok, Reddit or whoever, until you declare them to be a government, that means the real government can't stop them from expressing their point of view. Because you argued that companies are people too for decades, now they're acting like it.

[Edge-]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/13/n...e=articleShare

Days before the New York attorney general filed a lawsuit accusing Donald J. Trump and his company of fraud and seeking to shut down some of their business in the state, Mr. Trump’s lawyers created a new company in Delaware.

The new company’s name had a familiar ring to it: the Trump Organization, the same name as his old company, now threatened by the lawsuit. And on Sept. 21, the day the suit was filed, the new Delaware company filed paperwork in New York, seeking to be recognized there as the Trump Organization II.

Those maneuvers were detailed for the first time in a court filing on Thursday from the attorney general, Letitia James, who raised the prospect that Mr. Trump was seeking an end run around some of her lawsuit’s harshest potential punishments.

But her filing acknowledged that Mr. Trump’s lawyers had explicitly said they had not — and would not — take any steps to avoid the potential consequences of the lawsuit. Mr. Trump’s lawyers, according to the court filing, also offered to provide “assurances and advance notice” to address Ms. James’s concerns.

And because the new company was formed before the lawsuit was filed, Mr. Trump’s lawyers would not have known the specific consequences the attorney general was seeking.

Ms. James, however, remained concerned about the company’s motives and sought intervention from a judge. Her Thursday filing requested an order from the judge that would prohibit the Trump Organization from transferring its assets without court approval.

“Since we filed this sweeping lawsuit last month, Donald Trump and the Trump Organization have continued those same fraudulent practices and taken measures to evade responsibility,” Ms. James said in a statement. “Today, we are seeking an immediate stop to these actions because Mr. Trump should not get to play by different rules.”

Alina Habba, a lawyer for the former president and his company, said in a statement that Ms. James’s filing was “simply another stunt.”

“We have repeatedly provided assurance, in writing, that the Trump Organization has no intention of doing anything improper,” she said.

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Ms. Habba also accused Ms. James of using the filing to keep the case before Arthur F. Engoron, the state judge who had overseen disputes between Mr. Trump’s lawyers and Ms. James’s office during her investigation, before the lawsuit was filed. Justice Engoron ordered Mr. Trump to sit for a deposition and at one point held him in contempt of court, fining him $110,000.

After the lawsuit was filed, Ms. Habba requested that the case be overseen by a different judge, a request that is pending. She said Ms. James’s filing on Thursday was, “nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to keep this case with Justice Engoron.”

The former president has denied all wrongdoing and accused Ms. James, a Democrat, of pursuing a partisan witch hunt against him.

In her lawsuit, which accused Mr. Trump of lying to his lenders and insurers by fraudulently overvaluing his assets by billions of dollars, Ms. James asked a judge to impose a variety of punishments that would restrict his ability to do business in New York. She is seeking to bar Mr. Trump and the Trump Organization from acquiring commercial real estate there for five years and to prohibit him and three of his adult children from running companies in the state.

While Ms. James stopped short of trying to dissolve the Trump Organization, her lawsuit indicates that she wants to shut down at least a portion of the former president’s New York operations. Her lawsuit asks that a judge cancel the business certificates that allow some of his properties there to function, including his flagship commercial property at 40 Wall Street in Lower Manhattan.

Ms. James is also asking that the Trump Organization be made to forfeit some $250 million that she says it improperly reaped by misleading lenders and insurers about Mr. Trump’s net worth. Her Thursday filing expressed concern that, if the company is able to transfer its assets out of state, it might skirt those payments.

In the filing, Ms. James also asked a judge to immediately install a monitor to oversee the company’s disclosures to lenders and insurers, the issue at the heart of her case.

The lawsuit, citing “substantial, persistent and repeated fraudulent and misleading conduct,” centers on Mr. Trump’s annual financial statements, yearly records that include the Trump Organization’s estimated value of its holdings and debts. The company provided the statements — which wildly inflated the worth of nearly every one of its marquee properties, Ms. James said — to lenders and insurers “to obtain beneficial financial terms,” including lower interest rates and premiums.

In the filing on Thursday, Ms. James asked a judge to prohibit the company from submitting the annual statements without additional disclosures about the methods used to calculate the value of Mr. Trump’s assets. She also asked that a trial date be set in early October 2023.

Ms. James’s lawsuit accused Mr. Trump, three of his children and his company of “staggering fraud” in the valuation of some of his most well-known properties, including Trump Tower and 40 Wall Street in Manhattan and Mar-a-Lago in Florida. When interviewed under oath by her office, Mr. Trump invoked his Fifth Amendment right, refusing to answer all substantive questions.

The lawsuit coincides with a litany of other legal woes for Mr. Trump, including a number of criminal investigations involving his conduct in the final weeks of his presidency. In August, the F.B.I. searched Mar-a-Lago as part of an investigation into his removal of sensitive material from the White House; federal prosecutors are scrutinizing his efforts to reverse his 2020 election loss; and a Georgia district attorney is investigating his potential interference in the state’s election results.

Mr. Trump has not been accused of wrongdoing, and it is unclear whether any of those inquiries will lead to criminal charges against him.

In Manhattan, the district attorney’s office has been conducting a criminal investigation into some of the same conduct at the center of Ms. James’s lawsuit. Prosecutors had been marching toward an indictment of Mr. Trump early this year, before pulling back.

The district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, has said the investigation is continuing.

Huh, so is Trump starting another company that will likely go bankrupt to protect assets from the NY AG lawsuit? Sure could be.

He keeps starting companies and they keep going under. Doesn't seem like a very good businessman.

[Breccia]

Doesn't seem like a very good businessman.

Not even Delaware's shady as fuck corporate laws will help here. Trump starting another P. O. Box company and putting money in it, just like he did in his 2016 campaign by lending millions to himself from a company worth $15,000 might seem like a decent idea in general for a thief like Trump has proven himself to be. But committing fraud to avoid penalties for fraud is a dumb business move, even by Trump standards. And DE and NY are pretty good friends (I-95 between NYC and tax-free shopping does wonders for a relationship). DE owes Trump nothing and, while the letter of the DE laws will probably allow Trump to organize there just like other bastions of morality Twitter and Bill Cosby, they won't sit by while a company in their state commits criminal fraud in another state and do nothing. This is just one example of the states working together.

Simply put, at this point, if Trump tries to pull an Alex Jones then claim he's broke, while public filings prove he's lying, Trump would face criminal charges. NY would be done with his bullshit and just drag him off in handcuffs. Even a shift of the civil case from Trump Org 1 to Trump the fat orange sack of feces "person" would be action that would make this transparent dodge pointless.

[Paranoid Android]

RepKinzinger
on Trump signed order requiring troop withdrawal Afghanistan & Somalia: "Keep in mind the order was for an immediate withdrawal. It would have been catastrophic. And yet President Trump signed the order."

So this seems that Trump wanted to inflict complete chaos in Afghanistan mainly by immediate withdrawal. Now, projecting here, but this would likely have led to more of a disaster than so called Biden's withdrawal. Playing more of political game this shows Trump ordered a withdrawal, not Biden. Semantics and this has been argued but still.

[Edge-]

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/jan-...g-hearing.html

Jan. 6 Committee planning to subpoena Trump today, or at least hold a vote on it. We'll see what happens. Doesn't seem to be anything super spicey in today's hearing so far otherwise.

- - - Updated - - -

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3...t-we-lost/amp/

Former President Trump told his then chief of staff “this is embarrassing,” and “I don’t want people to know that we lost,” after the Supreme Court ruled against him on a key 2020 case about the election, former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson told the Jan. 6 panel.

Lol, Trump is a fuckin loser. What a sensitive, delicate snowflake. I thought Republicans hated snowflakes?

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...m_npd_nn_tw_ma

The Supreme Court handed former President Donald Trump a loss Thursday in his dispute with the Justice Department over documents seized from his Mar-a-Lago residence, rejecting his request that a special master be allowed to review classified papers.

The justices denied Trump’s relatively narrow emergency request in a brief unsigned order. There were no noted dissents.

The decision does not affect the Justice Department’s access to the same documents as part of a criminal investigation. The more than 100 documents marked as classified are just a small portion of the 11,000 records seized by federal agents in August amid concerns that Trump had unlawfully retained official White House records after leaving office.

The high court left in place part of a Sept. 21 decision by the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that barred the special master, federal Judge Raymond Dearie, from reviewing the documents. Trump had not contested the separate part of that ruling allowing the Justice Department to use the documents.

Color me pleasantly surprised!

Is anyone keeping track of Trump's court losses? They have to be in the hundreds by now.

[Paranoid Android]

JUST IN: The Supreme Court DENIES Trump's request to intervene in the dispute over documents with classified markings taken from Mar-a-Lago. The court offers no explanation for its decision (as is common for actions on the shadow docket), and there are no recorded dissents.

So the last, possibly frightening hurdle is over. The chance of Clarence Thomas somehow ruling on 11th Circuit or just SCOTUS as a whole giving Trump some unquestioned Presidential powers. I'm still a cynic but this can now proceed I guess(?).

[Breccia]

"in a brief unsigned order."

Those fucking pussies ah, I get it. The nine are looking out for each other. If nobody says anything, then it comes collectively from the group without any one/five being singled out.

[Zan15]

As a regular connoisseur of the bell from the southern border, I will tell you what I would buy if someone handed me $28 and said, spend it all now and give me back change, all food is yours:

2 Grilled Cheese Burrito Box Deluxes

--2x Grilled Cheese Burritos
--2x Chalupa Supreme
--2x Doritos Loco Taco
--2x Nachos w/ Cheese
--2x Baja Blast

2 Cinnamon Twists

12 Pack of Cinnabon Delight Combos

The total for me would be $27.45

If anyone was wondering, that's about 4,500 calories.

I'd spend the whole 28 on Grilled Cheese Burritos!!

[Ausr]

I'd spend the whole 28 on Grilled Cheese Burritos!!

People like the Grilled Cheese Burritos?

Just get like 20 Cheesy Fiesta Potatoes if you want something good.

[Drutt]

Just get like 20 Cheesy Fiesta Potatoes if you want something good.

If you want something good, you don't go to Taco Bell.

[Shadowferal]

This thread is giving me gas.
I see Trump was subpoenaed...

[Gorsameth]

I look forward to the many court cases as he tries to weasle out of it. And for him to refuse to answer literally anything if/when he shows up.

But lets start the speculation, will the committee order Trumps arrest when he inevitably ignores this subpoena and gets held in contempt?

[Edge-]

But lets start the speculation, will the committee order Trumps arrest when he inevitably ignores this subpoena and gets held in contempt?

The committee doesn't have that authority. I believe they can criminally refer him to the DoJ if he fails to respond to the lawful subpoena, at which point it would be in Merrick Garlands very non-confrontational hands.

[Gorsameth]

The committee doesn't have that authority. I believe they can criminally refer him to the DoJ if he fails to respond to the lawful subpoena, at which point it would be in Merrick Garlands very non-confrontational hands.

details details. Will the committee refer his arrest to the DoJ when he inevitably fails to show up.

[Edge-]

details details. Will the committee refer his arrest to the DoJ when he inevitably fails to show up.

I mean, he can just delay until after the elections if Democrats don't keep the House, then the subpoena dies.

Otherwise if he shows up he pulls a Donald Trump/Roger Stone and pleads the Fifth in response to every question.

Because according to Trump, only mob bosses who are guilty plead the Fifth.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.baltimoresun.com/politic...pla-story.html

In a move that elections experts say could further erode confidence in the voting process, a group of Maryland voters aligned with Republican gubernatorial nominee Dan Cox’s campaign plans on challenging the legitimacy of ballots across the state immediately after Election Day.

Republicans aren't even waiting. They're just preemptively arguing that fraud happened.

Fuckin pathetic, anti-democratic losers. It's wild watching a formerly semi-functional political party go full on authoritarian in real time.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...-investigation

According to an anonymous source close to Trump, Fox News is claiming Trump "loves" the idea of testifying to the committee so he can talk about Pelosi and the corrupt election.

Now I don't entirely disbelieve this, it sure sounds like something Trump would say!

But I'll note that Fox News as an organization has been pretty down on other media outlets use of anonymous sources, and their readers have been vocally opposed to believing any reporting based on "anonymous sources". Yet nobody seems much to mind this "anonymously" sourced report.

Curious!

[Poopymonster]

The committee doesn't have that authority. I believe they can criminally refer him to the DoJ if he fails to respond to the lawful subpoena, at which point it would be in Merrick Garlands very non-confrontational hands.

Maybe I'm optimistic about this, but Garland is non confrontational because he does not have the air tight slam dunk you would need to arrest a former president. Close every loophole you can, do everything by the goddamn book. Somehow holding a job for 4 years and being fired by over 70 million people makes you harder to arrest.

I hope that once Garland has it locked down perfect, then "non-confrontational" becomes "goddamn combative".

[Edge-]

Maybe I'm optimistic about this, but Garland is non confrontational because he does not have the air tight slam dunk you would need to arrest a former president.

No, he's just a spineless loser who is so terrified of the appearance of political bias that he's doing nothing about multiple Trump administration officials who are slam-dunk cases for lying under oath to congress or lying to law enforcement during an investigation.

He desperately wants to avoid being called partisan in his actions, which is stupid and pointless because Republicans are doing it anyways. All he's doing is letting criminals from within the Trump administration get away scott-free.

I hope that once Garland has it locked down perfect, then "non-confrontational" becomes "goddamn combative".

He's not primarily overseeing the investigation. He signed off on the warrant and all, but last I recall he's very much letting the team handling the investigation run with it and is doing his best to appear neutral throughout the matter. As if that matters worth a shit.

[postman1782]

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/jan-...g-hearing.html

Jan. 6 Committee planning to subpoena Trump today, or at least hold a vote on it. We'll see what happens. Doesn't seem to be anything super spicey in today's hearing so far otherwise.

Looks like you were wrong, Ronna McDaniel, RNC chair, said that Trump was behind the fake electors, no one else has said Trump as far as I know, most of them were saying it was Eastman.

[Blur4stuff]

I would be glad for Trump to answer questions under oath in private. Anything else would just be giving him a platform to spew more lies.

[Breccia]

I would be glad for Trump to answer questions under oath in private. Anything else would just be giving him a platform to spew more lies.

I look forward to Trump spewing more lies under oath. But his lawyers would probably rather Trump die than be caught perjuring himself on the stand. He'll claim he wants to testify, but he can't, his lawyers won't let him and the whole thing is rigged, he's already done that.