1. #81601
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    phasing...
    Posts
    24,549
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Thing is that pleading the 5th doesn't automatically equal guilt. Pleading the 5th can't be used against someone in a criminal case, for example.

    It CAN, however, be used against them in a civil case, which apparently New Yorks investigation into Trump is.
    I mean, is it not essentially saying "The plaintiff says X, Y and Z. I will neither confirm nor deny that statement."
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #81602
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    73,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I mean, is it not essentially saying "The plaintiff says X, Y and Z. I will neither confirm nor deny that statement."
    That's basically the difference. A criminal court needs to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, so there's a hill to climb, and a defendant refusing to testify against themselves can make that hill unclimbable.

    But civil cases are held to the standard of the preponderance of the evidence, basically "is it more likely they did it than that they didn't", and there, pleading the 5th is really weak, because you provide no counterargument, and then the weight of the evidence on the plaintiff's part meets the preponderance standard, and you lose. Not so much because you pled the 5th, but because they made claims and you didn't have an explanation or defense or contradiction.


  3. #81603
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    AND THERE'S MORE - https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1556782165689507841

    "This is absolutely going to enrage the country..."
    Learning math and history enrages that part of the country.

    Dontrike/Shadow Priest/Black Cell Faction Friend Code - 5172-0967-3866

  4. #81604
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Allegedly Trump pleaded the 5th over 440 times during his deposition today.

    Looking real innocent there. /s
    Attorney: "Sir, is your name Donald J. Trump?"
    Trump: "I plead the fifth."
    Attorney: "Sir, all I am doing is..."
    Trump: "FIFTH!"
    Attorney: "Sir.."
    Trump: "FIFTH!!!!"
    Attorney: "If this guy says fifth one more time, I am going to drink a fifth."
    Trump: "FIFTH!!!!!!!!"

    I can imagine this being the exchanges between Trump and lawyers. He did read that statement numerous times he put out too during his time there.

  5. #81605
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy73...einhart-doxxed



    I eagerly await for the Republicans, in a unified voice, to condemn these threats and the attempts to dox this judge with all the anger and vigor they did so when SCOTUS Justices were *checks notes* being peacefully protested. Except that one loser that called himself into the cops, which still fuck that guy.

    They want to go after his kids, too. So much for the #SaveTheKids crowd.
    Yeah, that's... totally normal stuff O_O These are the same people that cried over peaceful protestors outside the houses of SCOTUS members.

  6. #81606
    Man, CNN's been trying to have some shitty right wing takes on all of this. Desperate to pull some Fox News nutters? Just loads of articles that play down the actual legality, and spend most of their time creaming over how good this is for Trump politically as the Ultimate Victim - and it's only positive for him politically if outlets like CNN keep trying to give him positive attention for it. CNN's always dabbled at throwing democracy under the bus for clicks, but they're really going a few steps too far with this one.

  7. #81607
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    36,394
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Keep an eye on the news. If Trump was, in fact, sold out by a close friend or family member, the symptoms in his increasingly claustrohomophobic mind will not be subtle.
    UPDATE: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA (deep breath) MUAHAHAHAHAHA

    With Feds Circling, Trump Asks Allies: Who’s ‘Wearing a Wire’?

    Donald Trump is worried he may have a rat — or multiple rats — in his midst. He’s wondering if his phones are tapped, or even if one of his buddies could be “wearing a wire.”

    As the federal and state investigations into Trump and his orbit swell, so have his suspicions, according to two sources familiar with the matter and another two people close to the twice-impeached former Oval Office occupant.

    This summer, Trump has asked close associates if they think his communications are being monitored by the feds, or — per his phrasing — “by Biden.” As a source close to Trump describes it to Rolling Stone: “He has asked me and others, ‘Do you think our phones are tapped?’
    That's a rare typo from Rolling Stone. The word, as we all know, is 'taped'.

    Given the sheer volume of investigations going on into the [former] president, I do not think he’s assuming anything is outside the realm of possibility.”

    The source adds, “He’s talked about this seriously [in the past few months], but I know of one time when he made a joke that was something like, ‘Be careful what you say on the phone!’”

    Moreover, on at least a couple of occasions since May, Trump has wondered aloud if there were any Republicans visiting his clubs who could be “wearing a wire,” according to another person close to Trump and a different source familiar with the matter. Trump and his allies are baselessly floating the idea that federal agents could be guilty of “planting” incriminating evidence at his private resort. And the ex-president and several of his longtime advisers are trying to figure out if they have, in their terminology, a “mole” or a “rat” in Trump’s inner sanctum who is slipping his secrets to the feds.

    Multiple people with knowledge of the situation say that as of Wednesday afternoon, Trump and his cohort do not have any evidence to support their groundless talking point that the FBI planted evidence during their search of Trump’s home at the Mar-a-Lago club in Florida earlier this week. Still, the sources say, the upper crust of MAGAland has already begun wildly speculating about who the snitch could be, if such a turncoat exists at all. On Wednesday morning, Axios reported that “Trumpworld is abuzz with speculation about which close aide or aides has ‘flipped’ and provided additional sensitive information to the FBI about what Trump was keeping at” his Florida estate. Later that day, intelligence writer William Arkin reported that “the raid on Mar-a-Lago was based largely on information from an FBI confidential human source.”

    One Trump adviser tells Rolling Stone that since Tuesday, MAGA loyalists have been asking to pass their suspicions to Trump, telling him not to trust certain individuals and to investigate them for possible contacts with federal authorities. “I’m getting a lot of messages saying [things like], ‘This guy must be the informant,’ and others … calling for the [former] president to start doing phone checks of his staff,” says the adviser. “To be honest, a lot of it feels like people trying to screw over the ones they don’t like [in Trumpworld].”

    Though Trump’s paranoia is so often fueled by unhinged conspiracy theories, in this case, he has reason to worry. There are various criminal, civil, and federal investigations into Trump, his sprawling family business, and his political allies in his attempts to subvert the 2020 presidential election. But some of his paranoid habits that have cropped up this summer are reminding a few Trump confidants of his term in the Oval Office. During the Mueller investigation, then-President Trump went as far as to ponder to a small number of people whether his own White House counsel Don McGahn was — in identical wording — “wearing a wire” for the supposedly Trump-loathing federal prosecutors.

    “When I worked for him,” says Stephanie Grisham, a former senior Trump aide who has since fallen out with the MAGA royalty, “it was an everyday obsession [about] who was leaking, who was cooperating with what. He’d regularly ask me and others, ‘Do you think I can trust this person?’ or ‘Do you trust this person?’ or tell me to ‘go find the leaker.’”

    “Shockingly, I feel bad for the guy today, as funny as that sounds,” she adds. “Trump demands total loyalty, and yet he turns on people at a moment’s notice. And he’s now in this situation where he and his people are wondering who among them could be giving some of his most closely held information to the FBI.”

    Grisham concludes, “I mean, who can he trust? It’s just a shitty, sad way to live.”
    There's more in the article, including that Trump is now flat-out telling people he's looking at a 2024 run to provide legal immunity. [Note: he's also telling his friends that this immunity applies only to him, which is a stupid time to tell the truth for the first time in your life] Which, of course, law enforcement already knows. The RNC will have to decide if they really want Trump as a fat, bloated figurehead who could be literally arrested during a campaign rally, leaving them with nobody.

    "Being arrested or convicted doesn't mean you can't run or be elected."

    Not by the Constitution, no, but by the voters yes. If Trump is arrested, it will be because the evidence is overwhelming to the point of being objective, and that evidence will be held up on every TV screen and computer monitor in the world. "We're not arresting him because he's running," the FBI will say, "we're arresting him because he broke the law. Man, he probably regrets some of the shit he said to Wray in 2020 right now." Not only will the few remaining classic Republicans stay home election night, probably sobbing themselves to sleep in front of Matlock, a good chunk of Trump's rabid fanbase will also refuse to vote under the grounds that the whole thing is rigged...and hand President Harris a landslide.

    At one point, I heard that running for President meant you couldn't be arrested. It was decades ago, on some random TV show, and I can't find any evidence of it now. If that's true, please let me know how you found out. But under the assumption that it isn't, Trump has two years and change to officially declare his candidacy and all the restrictions that come with it; beat out all the other non-under-investigation Republicans in the primaries; get the "Republican" Party to allow this; survive the debates, and yes I do mean both versions of survive considering he nearly literally died the last time; and get more votes than he did the last time -- all while under multiple federal and multiple states' civil and criminal investigations, all of whom know there's a time limit.

    That is a fat order.

    "The state ones don't have a time limit."

    They kind of do, scheduling a trial around a WH schedule would be a tactical nightmare.

    I'm waiting for Georgia and NYState to jump in with an unlikely tag-team, flanking Trump for bonus Sneak Attack d6's while his main focus is the misguided belief Biden is attacking him. Biden's too busy saving the country from Trump's damage. He has people he trusts to do their job, because Biden actually hires experienced, qualified people. This search of Mar-a-Lago wasn't just a warning shot, it was a starter's pistol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    Man, CNN's been trying to have some shitty right wing takes on all of this.
    Mulvaney goes on CNN to say

    I didn’t even know there was a safe at Mar-a-Lago, and I was the chief of staff for 15 months.
    *ahem* Acting. You were acting Chief of Staff.

    So this would be someone who was handling things on day-to-day, who knew where documents were at. So it would be somebody very close...my guess is there’s probably six or eight people who have that kind of information
    Translation: "It wasn't me that ratted Trump out, please don't threaten my life."

    This further feeds into the paranoia, of course, which may even be Mulvaney's intent -- especially if he was the FBI informant. Mulvaney also said Trump taking the Fifth 400+ times was funny and Trump could make the search warrant public whenever he wanted. Trump fired Mulvaney in early 2020 and, therefore, Mulvaney could easily be telling the truth that he's no longer in Trump's inner circle. The safe? Eh...coin flip.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Speaking of people who know Trump is paranoid: Cohen has been quadruple-booked of late.

    "One thing for certain, Donald is not so much concerned that the FBI came to Mar-a-Lago," Cohen told CNN in an interview that aired Thursday. "What he's concerned about is he knows what information exists in the boxes that were taken."

    "That's what's concerning him, that coupled with who is it that is providing the information because right now he feels trapped," Cohen added. "He feels all alone and he should, he should feel this way because rest assured, whatever the person that provided the feds with the information, they're willing to provide more."

    Cohen continued, "They will continue to do so until ultimately, and one thing, you know, when the feds raid, usually what comes after that is an indictment and incarceration and nobody knows that better than I."
    Cohen worked for Trump for years, until Trump woke up one day deciding Cohen's lifetime of loyalty meant nothing. He is 100% credible as a witness to Trump's state of mine. That's three people in under an hour I've cited who Trump fired, who are now force-feeding his paranoia. How appropriate that Trump is now being treated like the villain in an episode of Burn Notice.

    "What's that?"

    Um...Leverage.

    "What's that?"

    Um...Mission: Impossible?

    "Oh, with Tom Cruise?"

    (sighs) Look, there's a lot of TV where the bad guy is fed enough intel to believe his actually-loyal followers are traitors until the villain expels or kills them. Trump is just past the half-hour mark on those.

    Also:

    Trump and his allies have also suggested that the FBI planted evidence during the raid.

    "Everyone was asked to leave the premises, they wanted to be left alone, without any witnesses to see what they were doing, taking or, hopefully not, 'planting'," Trump wrote on his social media app Truth Social. But Trump's own lawyer shot down these suggestions.

    Cohen called that statement "reckless" and "despicable" in his CNN interview.
    - - - Updated - - -

    And just like that, Lincoln Project.


  8. #81608
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    And just like that, Lincoln Project.

    I do hope that liberals have stopped throwing money at this group by now, at least.

  9. #81609
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    UPDATE: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA (deep breath) MUAHAHAHAHAHA

    With Feds Circling, Trump Asks Allies: Who’s ‘Wearing a Wire’?



    That's a rare typo from Rolling Stone. The word, as we all know, is 'taped'.



    There's more in the article, including that Trump is now flat-out telling people he's looking at a 2024 run to provide legal immunity. [Note: he's also telling his friends that this immunity applies only to him, which is a stupid time to tell the truth for the first time in your life] Which, of course, law enforcement already knows. The RNC will have to decide if they really want Trump as a fat, bloated figurehead who could be literally arrested during a campaign rally, leaving them with nobody.

    "Being arrested or convicted doesn't mean you can't run or be elected."

    Not by the Constitution, no, but by the voters yes. If Trump is arrested, it will be because the evidence is overwhelming to the point of being objective, and that evidence will be held up on every TV screen and computer monitor in the world. "We're not arresting him because he's running," the FBI will say, "we're arresting him because he broke the law. Man, he probably regrets some of the shit he said to Wray in 2020 right now." Not only will the few remaining classic Republicans stay home election night, probably sobbing themselves to sleep in front of Matlock, a good chunk of Trump's rabid fanbase will also refuse to vote under the grounds that the whole thing is rigged...and hand President Harris a landslide.

    At one point, I heard that running for President meant you couldn't be arrested. It was decades ago, on some random TV show, and I can't find any evidence of it now. If that's true, please let me know how you found out. But under the assumption that it isn't, Trump has two years and change to officially declare his candidacy and all the restrictions that come with it; beat out all the other non-under-investigation Republicans in the primaries; get the "Republican" Party to allow this; survive the debates, and yes I do mean both versions of survive considering he nearly literally died the last time; and get more votes than he did the last time -- all while under multiple federal and multiple states' civil and criminal investigations, all of whom know there's a time limit.

    That is a fat order.

    "The state ones don't have a time limit."

    They kind of do, scheduling a trial around a WH schedule would be a tactical nightmare.

    I'm waiting for Georgia and NYState to jump in with an unlikely tag-team, flanking Trump for bonus Sneak Attack d6's while his main focus is the misguided belief Biden is attacking him. Biden's too busy saving the country from Trump's damage. He has people he trusts to do their job, because Biden actually hires experienced, qualified people. This search of Mar-a-Lago wasn't just a warning shot, it was a starter's pistol.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Mulvaney goes on CNN to say



    *ahem* Acting. You were acting Chief of Staff.



    Translation: "It wasn't me that ratted Trump out, please don't threaten my life."

    This further feeds into the paranoia, of course, which may even be Mulvaney's intent -- especially if he was the FBI informant. Mulvaney also said Trump taking the Fifth 400+ times was funny and Trump could make the search warrant public whenever he wanted. Trump fired Mulvaney in early 2020 and, therefore, Mulvaney could easily be telling the truth that he's no longer in Trump's inner circle. The safe? Eh...coin flip.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Speaking of people who know Trump is paranoid: Cohen has been quadruple-booked of late.



    Cohen worked for Trump for years, until Trump woke up one day deciding Cohen's lifetime of loyalty meant nothing. He is 100% credible as a witness to Trump's state of mine. That's three people in under an hour I've cited who Trump fired, who are now force-feeding his paranoia. How appropriate that Trump is now being treated like the villain in an episode of Burn Notice.

    "What's that?"

    Um...Leverage.

    "What's that?"

    Um...Mission: Impossible?

    "Oh, with Tom Cruise?"

    (sighs) Look, there's a lot of TV where the bad guy is fed enough intel to believe his actually-loyal followers are traitors until the villain expels or kills them. Trump is just past the half-hour mark on those.

    Also:



    - - - Updated - - -

    And just like that, Lincoln Project.

    You know, this is probably the truest thing that Trump would ever do as he was ALWAYS worried about people talking, hence the insane NDAs. Thing is, he surrounds himself with people that will absolutely throw him under the bus the first chance they will get if they can profit off of it.

    He wants loyalty but he only knows how to buy it, like how he has to for love.

    This honestly reminds me of the South Park episode where they throw Cartman under the bus literally.

  10. #81610
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    36,394
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    You know, this is probably the truest thing that Trump would ever do as he was ALWAYS worried about people talking, hence the insane NDAs.
    Which, as we've recently heard, are not going to be enforced.

  11. #81611
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Which, as we've recently heard, are not going to be enforced.
    So do I hear some loud squealing in the distance? Should the Feds put out some cheese for the rats to find? Stay tuned for the next episode of "As The Donald Sweats".

  12. #81612
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    36,394
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Stay tuned for the next episode of "As The Donald Sweats".
    Thanks for that mental image. Even I don't always go that far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    it's because Jones is trying to taint the other two jury pools
    There's a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally obvious joke I could have made right there.

  13. #81613
    So, was listening to an interview on NPR last night about the current Republican reaction to all of this and the guest was pointing out how the rhetoric (violent, anti-government) we're seeing from conservatives online and from Republican lawmakers is eerily similar to the tone of rhetoric from those groups in the mid 90's before the Oklahoma City bombing of the FBI building there.

    And then I pop open the news today - https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...hio-trump-raid

    Ohio State Highway Patrol officers reportedly exchanged fire Thursday morning with a man who tried to break into an FBI building in Cincinnati, Ohio.

    Interstate I-71 North was shut down after the suspect drove away from the scene and reportedly started firing at police from a cornfield, NBC 15 News reported. FBI negotiators have also arrived on the scene.

    The suspect was described as a white male over police scanner traffic, according to the News Journal.

    “Blood splatter on his shorts. Right thigh area,” an officer in a police helicopter said over the radio. “Part of windshield shot out ... Suspect on knees, holding rifle.”

    "Rifle down for the moment. He is on his knees,” the officer added about 15 minutes later.
    Sure is a coincidence, even if we have no motive or evidence this attack is related to the recent raid on Trump's safe.

  14. #81614
    someone shootin at the fbi in ohio lol

  15. #81615
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    So, was listening to an interview on NPR last night about the current Republican reaction to all of this and the guest was pointing out how the rhetoric (violent, anti-government) we're seeing from conservatives online and from Republican lawmakers is eerily similar to the tone of rhetoric from those groups in the mid 90's before the Oklahoma City bombing of the FBI building there.

    And then I pop open the news today - https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...hio-trump-raid



    Sure is a coincidence, even if we have no motive or evidence this attack is related to the recent raid on Trump's safe.
    For a lot of the far right, they have always been violent anti-government types. As bad as it sounds, I could honestly see another bombing of a random government building by one of the crazies out there as they have never had any issue on using violence against law enforcement or the government in general. History has shown it time and time again. It isn't a matter of if and a matter of when.

    I would say I am surprised but Ohio is known for 1 big thing, serial murderers. And I live in Ohio.

    Off topic, I live literally about 3 miles from one of the more disturbing cases in history. Look up the Sexton family that lived in Jackson Township back in the 80s/90s. There is a true crime book about them and all of it is true.

  16. #81616
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    36,394
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Sure is a coincidence
    Could be. Sounds like the suspect is alive, and in custody. Posibly literally retarded person going to where the guns and training are and shooting at them, regardless of the reason.

  17. #81617
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    And of course there's more.



    I mean, not even Biden was told. FBI director Wray doesn't report to Ruibo.

    But if I had to hazard a guess, the answer would be "you would have warned him". Rubio is not a member of law enforcement. His authority, and role, in this is zero.
    He's not part of the executive.

    Why should he be told ahead of time? There's no more reason for it than there was reason to tell me about it ahead of time.

  18. #81618
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    36,394
    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    He's not part of the executive.

    Why should he be told ahead of time?
    So he could protect Trump, most likely by obstructing justice and warning the target of a criminal investigation. Like you said, it wasn't his job, at all. Hey, the second he wants to push a bill that says "You can't investigate Trump" he's welcome to do that. Little late now, but he's free to try.

  19. #81619
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/11/polit...est/index.html

    CNN previously reported that federal investigators visited Mar-a-Lago in June to discuss White House records they believed were still being held at the Palm Beach property with the former President and his attorneys.

    Trump was present at the beginning of the meeting to greet investigators but did not stay to answer questions. During the meeting, Trump's attorneys showed the investigators documents -- some of them had markings indicating they were classified. The agents were given custody of the documents that were marked top secret or higher, according to a person familiar with the matter.
    So this wasn't a "raid" done out of the blue and without any preceding efforts. There were. Trump already met with federal investigators over the classified documents he was illegally retaining. Trump was there, but didn't stay to answer questions. But the meeting did prove that Trump still had classified documents, which were given to the investigators at the time.

    Guess they didn't believe this was all of them, or had reason to believe that Trump or someone working for him had done something more like shared these documents with others.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cp...tic-terrorists

    So remember that, "WE ARE ALL DOMESTIC TERRORISTS" banner at CPAC? Did you think that was just some clever editing?

    Well, Snopes checked in and...nope, it was not clever editing. It was legit.

    Present on that panel was Julie Pickren, a Texas State Board of Education candidate who claimed the title was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, the Houston Chronicle reported. “Nobody in this room is a domestic terrorist,” she reportedly told the crowd of attendees.
    It was supposed to be "tongue-in-cheek", but uh...like...did they forget Jan. 6? What's tongue-in-cheek about it? There have to be better ways. It's one thing to embrace the "basket of deplorables" line, that's weird but whatever. But embracing "We are domestic terrorists" seems uh...a bit far?

  20. #81620
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ziltoidia 9
    Posts
    18,568
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    So remember that, "WE ARE ALL DOMESTIC TERRORISTS" banner at CPAC? Did you think that was just some clever editing?
    I love the "Awake, not Woke". That is like saying, "Automobile, Not Car"

    Absolutely morons.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •