Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Reminder, these absolute fucking jokes of human beings will run this committee in a few months.

Maybe, but while their primary goal will be to make the original panel look like a partisan WITCH HUNT! the original panel will baton-pass to Garland and/or the special prosecutor. They will objectively use this objective information to make objective decisions that are not based on conspiracy theories, misinformation, or QAnon. They'll just prosecute whoever they have enough evidence on, while the RNC screams impotently but can do nothing to stop it.

I mean, what can they do? There is a damn near zero point negative zero percent chance Cheney (etc.) broke any laws here.

[Edge-]

I mean, what can they do? There is a damn near zero point negative zero percent chance Cheney (etc.) broke any laws here.

Make a lot of smoke with their smoke machine and then spend years convincing America that this actually means there's a fire.

I don't think I need to remind us, but we need only look back at Benghazi to see how fantastically successful of a political tool these "kangaroo courts" are.

[Fugus]

I mean, I don't see how. He knows like everyone knows Cheney will strut across DC carrying the evidence to Garland. Maybe literally. And that the evidence was collected long before he made this statement.

His statement sounds so odd because it almost sounds bipartisan. Which McCarthy has never been. He's claiming the American people want transparency, but the Jan 6th committee has had all those public meetings. At best, he might be implying there's exculpatory evidence but he knows full well there isn't -- and even if there was, by law, the prosecution has to bring it up anyhow.

It just feels so...empty, and why make such a public empty threat?

"Now don't you move, or I'll shoot you next."
"No you won't, you're using a S&W 0.38 Special with five shots and I counted, you're out."
"I will shoot you!"
"Dude, I can see the chambers from here. They're all empty."
"Shoot you, I will!"

Remember, these are the same people who chant Benghazi while ignoring the 10 or so investigations that cleared her. They don't care about the truth, they care about the optics and their media outlets don't call them out on it either.

Step 1: The committee finds McCarthy is involved.
Step 2: McCarthy says he will investigate the committee.
Step 3: The committee starts questioning McCarthy about his involvement further in the stuff that directly implicates him.
Step 4: McCarthy claims that their looking into him is political retaliation for looking into the committee.

To anyone involved, he would come off as stupid and lying, to the Republican base, he will come off as the victim because they don't recall that far back and their "News" sources never mentioned the previous stuff before nor will they now because that isn't the narrative that helps their party while their commentators lie through their teeth about it because they legally aren't news nor do they have to be honest because they aren't new, they are entertainment.

[Breccia]

Make a lot of smoke with their smoke machine and then spend years convincing America that this actually means there's a fire.

Hopefully Garland shows up with a bucket of ice water, then.

Unrelated: Trump Org claims this was all Weaselberg's fault.

The prosecution's case rests on one thing: trying to convince you, the jurors, that Mr. Weisselberg's actions were done in behalf of the company. They were not. They were done solely to benefit himself. And that is the critical issue in this case.

Let's pretend this was true. I have no issues believing Weaselberg is self-serving to the point of non-exaggerated evil. Um, Trump still signed off on it. So did a lot of his kids. And you know who agrees with me? Weaselberg. He said as much under oath. The fact that Weaselberg is guilty of crimes doesn't absolve Trump Org, in fact, it is considered evidence against them.

For added fun, the defense tried, in their closing arguments, to bring up issues that they'd tried to bring up in court, had objected to, and the objection was sustained. The judge even yelled at them for it. The defense also explained what NYState meant with the phrasing of their own law, and the judge yelled at them for that, too.

The defense is also, yep, pleading ignorance.

Bender never told the owner of the Trump Corporation, Trump, that there was anything wrong. There can be no claim that Trump had any knowledge or belief that the fringe benefits were illegal.

For the person who claims he knows the most about anything, including taxes specifically

I think nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world. Nobody knows more about taxes.

-- Trump, May 2016, right about the time he said he'd release his taxes when the audit was over. Yes, that was six years ago.

this is an interesting thing to go for under oath. Trump admitting ignorance under oath by proxy should be shameful. But this also smacks of Trump admitting a crime under oath, but claiming that it's okay because he didn't know it was a crime. And expecting it to work.

In the end, the defense is apparently trying to confuse the jury and/or exploit a not-very-well-phrased loophole in NYState law, putting the motive ahead of the actions. In other words, blaming the assassin that pulls the trigger but claiming the dude who hired the assassin is somehow blameless. It might work, legal codes are a maze that require graduate-level education to thread and the defense only needs one gullible and/or stupid juror to believe that Trump's signature on the get-out-of-taxes-free form means nothing.

A victory for NYState here would be largely symbolic, but the real issue is what banks think about the trial -- win or lose. Trump has, by some miracle, managed to get banks to give extensions to him they'd never give for any other non-paying customer. If the investigations show their risk is higher than they thought, they would have all the reason to just enforce the contract Trump signed and ask for their money back on time.

That, and in the trial, it was said out loud and is therefore now effectively public knowledge that Trump Org lost a billion dollars over a two-year span a decade ago. I'm not convinced that's a selling point for bankers, either. That, and the soon-to-be-leaked IRS returns, should be all the justification they need to hold the line and stop giving someone who never pays anyone more free money.

- - - Updated - - -

Step 1: The committee finds McCarthy is involved.
Step 2: McCarthy says he will investigate the committee.
Step 3: The committee starts questioning McCarthy about his involvement further in the stuff that directly implicates him.
Step 4: McCarthy claims that their looking into him is political retaliation for looking into the committee.

I agree with this assessment. I hope it turns out to be irrelevant. If McCarthy is proven to have been involved, I hope he's arrested for whatever the DOJ can make stick. Doesn't have to be treason, but that'd be a show-stopper.

I don't actually think McCarthy was foolish enough to actually be involved in the direct transition from "rally" to "murderous insurrection". I think he was hoping things would go well without splashing onto him, but he strikes me as too big a weasel to actually get his hands dirty. That said, there might be a few juicy texts or emails he replied to in a "let me know how your murderous insurrection works out" way that could be really embarrassing to see in public.

[Fugus]

I agree with this assessment. I hope it turns out to be irrelevant. If McCarthy is proven to have been involved, I hope he's arrested for whatever the DOJ can make stick. Doesn't have to be treason, but that'd be a show-stopper.

I don't actually think McCarthy was foolish enough to actually be involved in the direct transition from "rally" to "murderous insurrection". I think he was hoping things would go well without splashing onto him, but he strikes me as too big a weasel to actually get his hands dirty. That said, there might be a few juicy texts or emails he replied to in a "let me know how your murderous insurrection works out" way that could be really embarrassing to see in public.

With McCarthy, I honestly wouldn't be surprised. Wasn't he the same guy who tried to only put people already implicated with Trump on the committee to investigate him? That reeks of desperation to derail it.

Even if he isn't directly involved in the January 6 stuff, he acts like he knows he is guilty of something that they are close to finding or already found.

[Edge-]

With McCarthy, I honestly wouldn't be surprised. Wasn't he the same guy who tried to only put people already implicated with Trump on the committee to investigate him? That reeks of desperation to derail it.

Even if he isn't directly involved in the January 6 stuff, he acts like he knows he is guilty of something that they are close to finding or already found.

Yes, he tried to put folks like Gym Jordan on the committee, and when Pelosi said, "No thanks, but if you have someone that's not a potential accomplice to suggest we'd happy allow them on." and so McCarthy took his toys and went home thinking he'd make some big win in painting the committee as a partisan witch hunt. Which while it hasn't exactly been changing all the hearts and minds in the US, has been a major political miscalculation on his part and resulted in fairly extensive criticism.

This is the kind of political genius that's set to lead the House, with a deeply fractured party that makes the rifts between establishment moderate Democrats and the younger progressives look like a tiff over whether that dress is blue and black or white and gold.

[Fugus]

Yes, he tried to put folks like Gym Jordan on the committee, and when Pelosi said, "No thanks, but if you have someone that's not a potential accomplice to suggest we'd happy allow them on." and so McCarthy took his toys and went home thinking he'd make some big win in painting the committee as a partisan witch hunt. Which while it hasn't exactly been changing all the hearts and minds in the US, has been a major political miscalculation on his part and resulted in fairly extensive criticism.

This is the kind of political genius that's set to lead the House, with a deeply fractured party that makes the rifts between establishment moderate Democrats and the younger progressives look like a tiff over whether that dress is blue and black or white and gold.

Yeah, with everything that happened and how involved many of them appear to have been to the point Trump had them as moles for the Mueller investigation. It makes me wonder if that was less a political calculation that he messed up on and more a genuine attempt to protect his own behind. That maybe, while he didn't participate in the January 6th stuff, he did some other illegal stuff in his attempt for power that he doesn't want coming out.

[Edge-]

Yeah, with everything that happened and how involved many of them appear to have been to the point Trump had them as moles for the Mueller investigation. It makes me wonder if that was less a political calculation that he messed up on and more a genuine attempt to protect his own behind. That maybe, while he didn't participate in the January 6th stuff, he did some other illegal stuff in his attempt for power that he doesn't want coming out.

No, he was doing Trump's bidding at the time as IIRC Trump was saying not to put anyone on the committee as it was a "witch hunt".

Honestly I don't think McCarthy as remotely as culpable as other Republicans, especially given that IIRC he was flying off the handle at Trump on that day. McCarthy's a piece of shit, but he's not a full MAGAhead, he just pretends to be one for as long as it's beneficial to his political career.

He's just not good at politics overall. He's good at Republican politics, but not exactly an overall political wiz-kid.

[Fugus]

No, he was doing Trump's bidding at the time as IIRC Trump was saying not to put anyone on the committee as it was a "witch hunt".

Honestly I don't think McCarthy as remotely as culpable as other Republicans, especially given that IIRC he was flying off the handle at Trump on that day. McCarthy's a piece of shit, but he's not a full MAGAhead, he just pretends to be one for as long as it's beneficial to his political career.

He's just not good at politics overall. He's good at Republican politics, but not exactly an overall political wiz-kid.

Understood, hope they got something on him, either way will be interesting watching him trying to negotiate with the treason caucus for power to avoid working with Democrats.

[Edge-]

Understood, hope they got something on him, either way will be interesting watching him trying to negotiate with the treason caucus for power to avoid working with Democrats.

I'm skeptical. He's not afraid to be a sketchy fuck, but I doubt he's dumb enough to actually be directly involved in anything that could harm him politically from a legal perspective. He doesn't have the spine for it, honestly, he's much more of a "sway with the wind" kinda guy.

But yes, after watching how spectacularly ineffective Paul Ryan was and how little control he had over the House when he only had to deal with the early incarnations of the Freedom Caucus and whatnot, and with McCarthy being barely half the politician Ryan is (have you ever seen McCarthy take silly photo's of him working out in the WH gym? I THINK NOT!), this is setting the stage for some terrifying, and fairly delightful, drama and backstabbing within the Republican caucus unless something major changes int he next few months.

[Shadowferal]

McCarthy is playing politics. He isn't Speaker yet. And he has to play stupid for the mtg crowd whose votes he might need.

[Resurgo]

Womp womp…

https://www.axios.com/trump-mar-a-la...2263c7508.html

[Breccia]

Womp womp…

Appeals court removes "special master" from Trump case.

“The law is clear,” the appeals court wrote. “We cannot write a rule that allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. Nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so.”

“Either approach would be a radical reordering of our caselaw limiting the federal courts’ involvement in criminal investigations. And both would violate bedrock separation-of-powers limitations.”

“Accordingly, we agree with the government that the district court improperly exercised equitable jurisdiction, and that dismissal of the entire proceeding is required,” it continued.

“To create a special exception here would defy our Nation’s foundational principle that our law applies ‘to all, without regard to numbers, wealth, or rank.’”

[gondrin]

Appeals court removes "special master" from Trump case.

Twitter chinese knockoff tweetfest rage in 3, 2, 1.......

[Edge-]

Appeals court removes "special master" from Trump case.

Wait, so the Appeals court affirmed that judges do not write legislation? Has anyone told that to Chief Justice Roberts?!

[Flarelaine]

McCarthy's a piece of shit, but he's not a full MAGAhead, he just pretends to be one for as long as it's beneficial to his political career.

I'm not sure that's better. It might be worse.

[Sunseeker]

Appeals court removes "special master" from Trump case.

In some regards I suspect Cannon knew this, but did it anyway to play the loyalty card.

[ringpriest]

Yes, he tried to put folks like Gym Jordan on the committee, and when Pelosi said, "No thanks, but if you have someone that's not a potential accomplice to suggest we'd happy allow them on." and so McCarthy took his toys and went home thinking he'd make some big win in painting the committee as a partisan witch hunt. Which while it hasn't exactly been changing all the hearts and minds in the US, has been a major political miscalculation on his part and resulted in fairly extensive criticism.

When it comes to self-owns by political leaders, McCarthy's decision there was on par with Stalin deciding to boycott the UN in 1950.

[Paranoid Android]

Trump like a deposed dictator is asking the government to be overthrown and constitution to be suspended and him reinstated. This is what every third world deposed dictator says.

I sorta wish he was on Twitter and tweeted this. But Elon probably would keep this up making up some bs that it doesn't violate rules. This reaches to anyone who supports this guy when a ex-President or any person with political power would tweet this is calling for insurrection.

[Breccia]

Trump like a deposed dictator is asking the government to be overthrown and constitution to be suspended and him reinstated

Once again, it is our duty as logical human beings to challenge any Trump supporter with Trump's repeated declarations that he actually won and should be put in charge, despite no evidence supporting this in any way. By virtue of being Trump supporters, it is assumed they agree unless they specifically and directly refute it -- this isn't his favorite color or sports team, it's his biggest political statements over and over.

Simply put, the question should be "if Biden loses the election in 2024, is he allowed to declare himself the winner, with no evidence of fraud at all?" Because if Trump is saying it should be done for the loser in general, then Biden wins 2024. If Trump is saying it should only be done for Trump, that's not how the government works. And if the Trump supporter tries to split hairs, possibly citing Some Guy On Twitter as proof (he isn't), just say "Well what if Biden does the same?"

If any of the, erm, mysteriously absent Trump supporters ever dare to return, this is what they should be challenged with first and foremost, regardless of what issue they choose to bring up. Because the issues they'll try to bring up are deflections and distractions from their own willfully backing a known dictator.