Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[s_bushido]

So the question seems less "if" but "which". There seems to be a pretty substantial list of things Trump is objectively guilty of.

We live in the timeline where Trump was President. I don't think it's a good idea to bank on there actually being charges until charges are filed. I'm not holding my breath that anything will happen to Trump legally.

[Paranoid Android]

What Hope Hicks just testified about is documented on pg. 153 of Peril, Trump's one-on-one meeting with Hicks in the days after the election.

"I don't care about my legacy," Trump told her. "My legacy doesn't matteer. If I lose, that will be my legacy."

I swear can we boil this down to Trump's narcissism. Did Trump try to do an insurrection just cause his ego and he didn't want to be a loser. Would be something.

Of course it's deeper. Namely him trying to accrue power for him and especially cover his criminal activities.

[Kathranis]

Trump’s numbers were not much different from Romney’s. The deplorables voted for Romney. They just weren’t as loud about it.

They’ll still show up for whatever shithead the GOP puts out in 2024.

Trump got 63m in 2016, 74m in 2020. That's 11m new voters that he politically activated and who voted for him in spite of him showing what kind of man he really was. 11m pieces of shit who said, "Yeah, more of that, keep it coming." More than 11m, actually, since he lost a substantial amount of moderates and independents, many who were willing to give him a shot in 2016 just to fuck with the status quo.

Of course, Biden picked up 15m votes over Hillary, a mix of those same moderates and independents, and left-leaning voters who didn't want a repeat of 2016.

Anyway, point is, 11m matters. The last presidential election that had a wider gap than 11m was Reagan v Mondale.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Kinda surprised this thread hasn't been updated yet.

The 1/6 committee refers trump and others to the DoJ for 18 USC 1512c2 (obstructing), 2383 (insurrection), 1001/371 (conspiracy to make false statements), and 371 (conspiracy to defraud the US). The committee refers FOUR members of congress to the Ethics committee.

Insurrection:
-Trump

Obstruction of official proceeding:
-Trump
-Clark
-Eastman
-Chesebro

Conspiracy to defraud US:
-Trump
-Eastman
-Clark
-Chesebro
-Meadows
-Giuliani

Conspiracy to make false statement:
-Trump
-Eastman
-Chesebro

Jan. 6 Referrals to House Ethics Committee:
-McCarthy
-Jordan
-Perry
-Biggs


Notably: Cheesebro is either a really pog or a really unfortunate name.

[Breccia]

Kinda surprised this thread hasn't been updated yet.

It's as monumental as it is insignificant.
1) No former WH resident has ever been charged.
2) They still haven't.

Everyone knew this was going to happen, but it still happened. Congress has substantial evidence that Trump willingly spread falsehoods as facts, to serve as a platform to, well, terminate the Constitution and crown himself dictator. Now, I don't know if that charge will stick, including that I don't know if Trump will end up pleading out. But the conspiracy charges seem pretty black-and-white based on text messages. Obstruction is, in my opinion, the big one that Trump will face. Not only did Trump lie about winning the election, he blocked any investigation into it by refusing repeatedly to comply with a lawful investigation.

The new special investigator will have all the evidence the Jan 6th committee has, and will get more. Congress had to ask the DoJ for help when Bannon, etc. refused to comply, because they're not Executive Branch.

That ends now.

[Endus]

It's as monumental as it is insignificant.
1) No former WH resident has ever been charged.
2) They still haven't.

Everyone knew this was going to happen, but it still happened. Congress has substantial evidence that Trump willingly spread falsehoods as facts, to serve as a platform to, well, terminate the Constitution and crown himself dictator. Now, I don't know if that charge will stick, including that I don't know if Trump will end up pleading out. But the conspiracy charges seem pretty black-and-white based on text messages. Obstruction is, in my opinion, the big one that Trump will face. Not only did Trump lie about winning the election, he blocked any investigation into it by refusing repeatedly to comply with a lawful investigation.

The new special investigator will have all the evidence the Jan 6th committee has, and will get more. Congress had to ask the DoJ for help when Bannon, etc. refused to comply, because they're not Executive Branch.

That ends now.

I'd argue this is the really big charge; https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?...&edition=1999#

Not for fines or jail time, but for this part of the penalty tacked on after those elements; "and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

That charge, if convicted, ends his 2024 plans, and forestalls any other efforts to involve himself as a political official, at any level.

It's the kind of thing they might plead him down to; "plead guilty and we'll give you no jail time and a slap on the wrist fine". Because he's still permanently barred from office.

It also means, in the horrible timeline where he's elected in 2024 and this still isn't settled, if the courts come back before he can pardon himself, his election is nullified. He's forbidden from office. The VP takes over. He can appeal, but he can't be President while appealing the decision.

That's all presuming Garland can get off his fucking ass and do his job for once, mind you.

[Breccia]

"and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

Potentially. It's harder to prove, and I insist that Trump is unelectable if he's in prison, regardless of the charge.

[Kaleredar]

I'd argue this is the really big charge; https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?...&edition=1999#

Not for fines or jail time, but for this part of the penalty tacked on after those elements; "and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

That charge, if convicted, ends his 2024 plans, and forestalls any other efforts to involve himself as a political official, at any level.

It's the kind of thing they might plead him down to; "plead guilty and we'll give you no jail time and a slap on the wrist fine". Because he's still permanently barred from office.

It also means, in the horrible timeline where he's elected in 2024 and this still isn't settled, if the courts come back before he can pardon himself, his election is nullified. He's forbidden from office. The VP takes over. He can appeal, but he can't be President while appealing the decision.

That's all presuming Garland can get off his fucking ass and do his job for once, mind you.

This is probably what the establishment republicans want above all else: to not have to support trump, to ensure that trump can’t run, to not have to be forced to take a stand on trump’s past doings, and to blame trump’s inability to run on the democrats.

Either that or having trump drop dead. The establishment GOP have wanted to wash their hands of the “says the quiet part loud,” unpredictable, uncontrollable, toxic asset trump for a while. But they can’t visibly do that, lest trump run as a spoiler out of spite or his followers whom the dwindling demographics of the GOP need abandon the party.

If this does come to pass (and I certainly hope trump is taken to task for his blatant and repeated crimes) then the GOP cannot be allowed to simply “slough off” the blight of trump that they in no small part helped inflict upon the nation and the world.

[Paranoid Android]

I'd argue this is the really big charge; https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?...&edition=1999#.

That's all presuming Garland can get off his fucking ass and do his job for once, mind you.

My pessimism is always here. I wish Congress would have moved faster such as been done last year this time or barely into 2022. That's life.

Now comes Garland and he can't be doing this crap in say October of 2024. Let's face it, has a lot of politics and my example would be very political in the middle of a Presidential campaign. So even end of of July? In short get to prosecuting.

Once more the Republicans who are openly bitching right now about Trump have such an easy avenue to finish him for good if they half cooperate and say little and let Trump get prosecuted hopefully. Yes, then vote for the 14th Amendment, Section 3.

- - - Updated - - -

This is probably what the establishment republicans want above all else: to not have to support trump, to ensure that trump can’t run, to not have to be forced to take a stand on trump’s past doings, and to blame trump’s inability to run on the democrats..

I just replied with same statement here to Endus. I guess good luck with Republicans helping with the final blow to Trump. As much as I call the Dems a bunch of wusses, the Republicans easily out distance a Democrat here on if a Democrat President did this.

So speculate here, this will rally the people behind Trump and what's silly the worst kick off to a campaign so far, this help galvanize Trump a little and maybe boost him. Rally behind Trump and let's see how far this carries into 2024 and his nomination.

[Gorsameth]

I'd argue this is the really big charge; https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?...&edition=1999#

Not for fines or jail time, but for this part of the penalty tacked on after those elements; "and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

That charge, if convicted, ends his 2024 plans, and forestalls any other efforts to involve himself as a political official, at any level.

It's the kind of thing they might plead him down to; "plead guilty and we'll give you no jail time and a slap on the wrist fine". Because he's still permanently barred from office.

It also means, in the horrible timeline where he's elected in 2024 and this still isn't settled, if the courts come back before he can pardon himself, his election is nullified. He's forbidden from office. The VP takes over. He can appeal, but he can't be President while appealing the decision.

That's all presuming Garland can get off his fucking ass and do his job for once, mind you.

I really don't see this getting resolved before the 2024 election. Trump will keep using every stall tactic in the book.

[Poopymonster]

This is probably what the establishment republicans want above all else: to not have to support trump, to ensure that trump can’t run, to not have to be forced to take a stand on trump’s past doings, and to blame trump’s inability to run on the democrats.

Either that or having trump drop dead. The establishment GOP have wanted to wash their hands of the “says the quiet part loud,” unpredictable, uncontrollable, toxic asset trump for a while. But they can’t visibly do that, lest trump run as a spoiler out of spite or his followers whom the dwindling demographics of the GOP need abandon the party.

If this does come to pass (and I certainly hope trump is taken to task for his blatant and repeated crimes) then the GOP cannot be allowed to simply “slough off” the blight of trump that they in no small part helped inflict upon the nation and the world.

Trump, the Healthiest Manliest Bestest Genetics Third Coming of Christ, drops dead?
Has to be a Demoncrap conspiracy. We'll check back in 3 days, if he's still dead, they did it.
He could be a portrayed as a martyr, dead meat, I mean, red meat for the base.

[Ivanstone]

Trump got 63m in 2016, 74m in 2020. That's 11m new voters that he politically activated and who voted for him in spite of him showing what kind of man he really was. 11m pieces of shit who said, "Yeah, more of that, keep it coming." More than 11m, actually, since he lost a substantial amount of moderates and independents, many who were willing to give him a shot in 2016 just to fuck with the status quo.

Of course, Biden picked up 15m votes over Hillary, a mix of those same moderates and independents, and left-leaning voters who didn't want a repeat of 2016.

Anyway, point is, 11m matters. The last presidential election that had a wider gap than 11m was Reagan v Mondale.

He didn't pick up 11m new voters. He picked up 11m deplorable couch potatoes and got almost the same voter percentage as Romney. These people already existed. In past years they just didn't care to show up. One could say that they're new but Biden got his share of couch potatoes. 2020 wasn't about new voters, it was about getting your laziest supporters to the polls.

The alleged moderates and independents typically just show up to vote against the party in power. 2022 was probably the real outlier here since all of the GOP gains were because of districting manipulation rather than any real support for their vile policies.

[D Luniz]

House Committee Approves Release of Trump’s Taxes

Gift link used, so no paywall issues

[Cthulhu 2020]

I love the "Release Trump's tax returns, and we'll release the SCOTUS member's tax returns!" as if it's some kind of threat. Then everyone on the left is like "SURE, DO IT PUSSY". What, did the right think we'd be scared of holding our government officials accountable?

[Paranoid Android]

Getting late for me, but Trump cheated on his taxes, gave his kids money so they might be implicated and for 2 years the IRS did not audit, which they are supposed to do.

[Edge-]

I love the "Release Trump's tax returns, and we'll release the SCOTUS member's tax returns!" as if it's some kind of threat. Then everyone on the left is like "SURE, DO IT PUSSY". What, did the right think we'd be scared of holding our government officials accountable?

I'm thinking that's less a "threat" directed towards us, and more a plea for help from the conservative SCOTUS.

[fwc577]

I'm thinking that's less a "threat" directed towards us, and more a plea for help from the conservative SCOTUS.

“The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us! '… and I'll look down and whisper 'No. '”

[Breccia]

For people not keeping track, DWAC stock price is down 17.40% over the last 5 days.

It is now trading at $16.85 which, barring the opening price, is just about the lowest it's ever been, which in turn was Sept 23. It briefly spked peaked speed bumped up to $25 and change Nov 11, you know why of course, but it's been in a state of decline recently, you know why of course.

Last I checked, DWAC wasn't due to hold a vote for some time. Trump's futures have taken a dire turn for anyone fucking stupid enough to invest in his brand. Not only does it seem pretty likely that DWAC will eventually give up and refund all the money -- themselves losing the money they needed to stay afloat all this time -- but it also seems pretty likely Trump will return to Twitter, desperate for an audience.

1) His polls are plummeting.
2) The GOP is backing away from him.
3) His tantrums and screaming aren't getting results.
4) Trump knows full well that running for such a major office will require a broader audience than what he has. Nothing he has been doing has been expanding CyberTrump 2077's user base. Literally hundreds of thousands of people are leaving every month.
5) Musk named and shamed CyberTrump 2077, meaning Trump can't even get his word through Twitter by carbon copy proxy.
6) Sites I've been going to, at least, are far less likely to link a Trump post than a Twitter post, instead simply copying it down or giving an image. So he's not even getting incidental views.

With the sale most likely failing to go through anyhow, Trump will simply ignore the contract he signed -- I know, right? talk about a long shot bet there -- and start posting on Twitter, desperate for attention, desperate for likes, desperate for someone to tell him he's not a fat orange failure.

[D Luniz]

I love the "Release Trump's tax returns, and we'll release the SCOTUS member's tax returns!" as if it's some kind of threat. Then everyone on the left is like "SURE, DO IT PUSSY". What, did the right think we'd be scared of holding our government officials accountable?

he did toss in a "private citizens, business and labor leaders" before dropping the Justices
but considering how they hate PBS he wouldn't understand "one of those things is not like the others, one of those things just doesn't belong"

[Breccia]

Trump cheated on his taxes, gave his kids money so they might be implicated and for 2 years the IRS did not audit, which they are supposed to do.

Trump tax audits required by IRS were delayed, panel says

The IRS failed to pursue mandatory audits of Donald Trump on a timely basis during his presidency, a congressional panel found on Tuesday, raising questions about statements by the former president and leading members of his administration who claimed he could not release his tax filings because of the ongoing reviews.

A report released by the Democratic majority on the House Ways and Means Committee indicated the Trump administration may have disregarded an IRS requirement dating back to 1977 that mandates audits of a president’s tax filings. The IRS only began to audit Trump’s 2016 tax filings on April 3, 2019, more than two years into Trump’s presidency and just months after Democrats took control of the House. That date coincides with Rep. Richard Neal, the panel chairman, asking the IRS for information related to Trump’s tax returns.

While the panel stopped short of saying "Trump did this personally" I'm just going to say that on my own. There is no other reason that Trump, who told America he was being audited, wouldn't be audited even though that's mandatory federal law.