Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[No Kings Voter]

Lol Fox News, forgot to follow up that brutal 2020 .... $5.47 MILLION in REFUND .

Conservative news editing at it's best.

[Paranoid Android]

Trump tax audits required by IRS were delayed, panel says



While the panel stopped short of saying "Trump did this personally" I'm just going to say that on my own. There is no other reason that Trump, who told America he was being audited, wouldn't be audited even though that's mandatory federal law.

Umm from what I read last night (don't have source)that these audits were mandatory. Sure we can say that Trump didn't do this personally but ignoring a law generally comes from the top.

[gondrin]

Lol Fox News, forgot to follow up that brutal 2020 .... $5.47 MILLION in REFUND .

Conservative news editing at it's best.

Besides the tax fraud and the like, someone should ask about the 2 years he did have an income that didn't come from the Presidential salary. That is where they should be doing a deep dive to see where that money came from as a President isn't generally allowed to make money outside of the office of the Presidency.

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Umm from what I read last night (don't have source)that these audits were mandatory. Sure we can say that Trump didn't do this personally but ignoring a law generally comes from the top.

Yep, this came with Nixon where they passed a bill that stated the IRS has to audit the President and VP each year since Nixon refused to release his taxes.

[Gorsameth]

Besides the tax fraud and the like, someone should ask about the 2 years he did have an income that didn't come from the Presidential salary. That is where they should be doing a deep dive to see where that money came from as a President isn't generally allowed to make money outside of the office of the Presidency.

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Yep, this came with Nixon where they passed a bill that stated the IRS has to audit the President and VP each year since Nixon refused to release his taxes.

Normally a President leaves his personal businesses when he takes the office. Trump never did that, despite faking to do the paper work for the camera's one day.

I imagine atleast a part of it comes from that.

[Paranoid Android]

IIRC, as per Trump, paying $0 means you're doing it right, right?

Not as many Trumpers or the "rich are gods" people in here as there used to be (except Elon riders). One more time idk how you defend a person who is supposed to be rich not paying his fair share and likely less than you paid in taxes. All this does is pass the tax responsibility to you. It may be some tax, hidden tax or now a program that is cut that greatly affect the you and people around you more than some rich asshole.

Right wing populism is really weird. They go full rant against the elite but then turn around and say this person is brilliant and don't ever tax the rich and corporations.




I just saw this and the post didn't have too much context. The $30 million losses are incredible and this is just 6 years, along with other 2 years of losses. The only defense and once again this is the tax laws, is with real estate and businesses you perhaps can do crazy loss deductions. Common sense here would say back to back $30 million losses would make any small to medium size business collapse, which Trump Org. is.

So Tax Laws saved him or it's some shady tax law bookeeping.

[Gorsameth]

Not as many Trumpers or the "rich are gods" people in here as there used to be (except Elon riders). One more time idk how you defend a person who is supposed to be rich not paying his fair share and likely less than you paid in taxes. All this does is pass the tax responsibility to you. It may be some tax, hidden tax or now a program that is cut that greatly affect the you and people around you more than some rich asshole.

Right wing populism is really weird. They go full rant against the elite but then turn around and say this person is brilliant and don't ever tax the rich and corporations.

America has no poor people, they have temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
They think its great for a millionaire to not pay taxes, because one day they to will be millionaires and then they to will want to pay no taxes.

No, I know they won't be millionaires but that is the lie they have sold themselves.

[gondrin]

Normally a President leaves his personal businesses when he takes the office. Trump never did that, despite faking to do the paper work for the camera's one day.

I imagine atleast a part of it comes from that.

Don't you remember? He had that big stack of beige envelopes stating he was signing over his businesses to his son.

I am sure Pepperidge Farm remembers. Much like everything else Trump does, it was all a lie.

[Gorsameth]

Don't you remember? He had that big stack of beige envelopes stating he was signing over his businesses to his son.

I am sure Pepperidge Farm remembers. Much like everything else Trump does, it was all a lie.

yep, and like a week later the media reported that whatever organisation had to process said paperwork never received it. I bet Giuliani's dog ate it.

[Paranoid Android]

I just saw this and the post didn't have too much context. The $30 million losses are incredible and this is just 6 years, along with other 2 years of losses. The only defense and once again this is the tax laws, is with real estate and businesses you perhaps can do crazy loss deductions. Common sense here would say back to back $30 million losses would make any small to medium size business collapse, which Trump Org. is.

So Tax Laws saved him or it's some shady tax law bookeeping.

Little more reading and tax laws seem to be in favor of the rich. I'm shocked!

In 2015, Trump reported $105 million in business losses left over from more than $700 million in losses reported in 2009, according to Rosenthal.

These were distributed over the years that the JCT performed its examinations of Trump’s returns. For example, in 2015 Trump wrote down a $76 million loss in his “other income” category to wind up at $30 million in the hole.

This accounting trick resulted in a taxable income of $0 and a tax liability of $0 for that year.

“Trump paid nothing in taxes for years and years. How does he do that? Through losses. By using losses as a sheltering device,” Rosenthal said.

“Donald Trump’s tax returns exemplify the shortcomings of our tax code,” Wyden said Wednesday. “These are issues much bigger than Donald Trump. Trump’s returns likely look similar to those of many other wealthy tax cheats—hundreds of partnership interests, highly-questionable deductions, and debts that can be shifted around to wipe out tax liabilities.”

“Donald Trump had big deductions, big credits, and big losses—but seldom a big tax bill,” Ways and Means Committee member Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) said in a statement Tuesday. “Trump claimed tens of millions of dollars in losses and credits without the type of substantiation an ordinary taxpayer would likely provide.”



This does not look good. Unless Congress or whoever does some forensic here, it might be that Trump just exploited the tax laws that were given to him

The $700 million loss in 2008 is amazing and I remember this from reports a long time ago. Yes, according to tax laws Trump could take that $700 million and spread throughout the years. If I remember correctly this is in large part to do with our great real estate tax laws to exploit this. Not sure if 2015 from 2020 is part of this, but again he can just keep repeating this since we have the laws for it.

My commentary here is that almost no other person can take advantage of these tax laws. Once more you are cheering for the rich who don't play by the same rules.

[gondrin]

yep, and like a week later the media reported that whatever organisation had to process said paperwork never received it. I bet Giuliani's dog ate it.

With all that black stuff leaking down his head, I bet Giuliani is the one who ate it all. I mean, he still keeps simping for Trump even after Trump refused to pay him.

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Little more reading and tax laws seem to be in favor of the rich. I'm shocked!

In 2015, Trump reported $105 million in business losses left over from more than $700 million in losses reported in 2009, according to Rosenthal.

These were distributed over the years that the JCT performed its examinations of Trump’s returns. For example, in 2015 Trump wrote down a $76 million loss in his “other income” category to wind up at $30 million in the hole.

This accounting trick resulted in a taxable income of $0 and a tax liability of $0 for that year.

“Trump paid nothing in taxes for years and years. How does he do that? Through losses. By using losses as a sheltering device,” Rosenthal said.

“Donald Trump’s tax returns exemplify the shortcomings of our tax code,” Wyden said Wednesday. “These are issues much bigger than Donald Trump. Trump’s returns likely look similar to those of many other wealthy tax cheats—hundreds of partnership interests, highly-questionable deductions, and debts that can be shifted around to wipe out tax liabilities.”

“Donald Trump had big deductions, big credits, and big losses—but seldom a big tax bill,” Ways and Means Committee member Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) said in a statement Tuesday. “Trump claimed tens of millions of dollars in losses and credits without the type of substantiation an ordinary taxpayer would likely provide.”



This does not look good. Unless Congress or whoever does some forensic here, it might be that Trump just exploited the tax laws that were given to him

The $700 million loss in 2008 is amazing and I remember this from reports a long time ago. Yes, according to tax laws Trump could take that $700 million and spread throughout the years. If I remember correctly this is in large part to do with our great real estate tax laws to exploit this. Not sure if 2015 from 2020 is part of this, but again he can just keep repeating this since we have the laws for it.

My commentary here is that almost no other person can take advantage of these tax laws. Once more you are cheering for the rich who don't play by the same rules.

I always said that the only difference between a rich tax cheat and a poor tax cheat is a rich one has access to good accountants that know all the loopholes. Honestly, one of the only things that came out of the Trump tax bill that he signed in 2017 is the removal of a lot of deductions. They should have just went further and stated that you can only have a personal exemption, exemptions if you have kids or you had a business expense that went toward improving the business itself. Otherwise, standard tax rate applies. No more exemptions for losses in real estate. No more carry over of losses for real estate. That is how Trump go away with paying no taxes for so long is the 700 million loss in 2008.

I will not fault a person for using the tax laws as they are written. However, this should be where the tax laws are changed to remove those loopholes but too many have vested interests in keeping them there as they do benefit from them.

[Paranoid Android]

I always said that the only difference between a rich tax cheat and a poor tax cheat is a rich one has access to good accountants that know all the loopholes.

Not all true. It's about the tax laws. The middle class or poor don't have tax laws to deduct massive amounts of property for tax purposes. They can't invest millions into something than claim losses.

Accountants? I mean sorta but not the biggest factor. I mean the rich can afford the best and I think we can agree that you need millions to say setup up tax shelters here and maybe in foreign countries. In short it's about the money but not matter how much you need laws.

Honestly, one of the only things that came out of the Trump tax bill that he signed in 2017 is the removal of a lot of deductions.

Not really.

For the wealthy, banks, and other corporations, the tax reform package was considered a lopsided victory given its significant and permanent tax cuts to corporate profits, investment income, estate tax, and more.

I'm not tax expert but if you want to argue loopholes I mean they cut corporate taxes from 35% to 21%. You would need an almost ironclad loophole to make up that 14%. Oh also there are many articles that corporations are paying single digits since Trump tax bill. Look at trump 2019 and 202 he is around 4%. Loopholes done?

The Oh btw the middle class tax cuts are done in 2025 while corporate is forever. The good ole make the middle class temporary so when next 2024 election the Republicans can tell the people the Dems want to raise your taxes which depends on how you look at it but sure since those tax cuts may not be renewed.

Many of the tax benefits set up to help individuals and families will expire in 2025.

No more exemptions for losses in real estate.

Umm yeah, you were fooled on this one.

Nonetheless, for the real estate industry, pass-through taxation will likely continue to dominate because the effective rate, considering distribution/dividends, is lower, and disposing of property is simpler from a tax-planning perspective through a partnership; this gives structuring firms options on how they utilize real estate. However, one beneficiary of the reduced corporate rate is the real estate investment trust (REIT). REITs are vehicles that investors use in the real estate industry. The new rate will benefit REITs that distribute 90 percent of their taxable income annually or have taxable REIT subsidiaries. REITs should consider distributing only 90 percent of taxable income to retain more cash for operations and development. Then the remaining 10 percent of taxable income will be taxable to the REIT but at a lower rate.


Cmon this is Trump if he can write the rules he is not going to make a law that kills him.

I will not fault a person for using the tax laws as they are written. However, this should be where the tax laws are changed to remove those loopholes but too many have vested interests in keeping them there as they do benefit from them

I'm sorry this is the con and don't fall for it. You and the rich do not have the same tax deductions. Stop thinking child tax credits or being married is the same of rich being able to buy a 2nd, 3rd or more multi-million dollar homes as tax right offs.

Can you or I should say the average person afford a 2nd home, charity donations, business deduction, depreciation deductions, etc?

[gondrin]

Not all true. It's about the tax laws. The middle class or poor don't have tax laws to deduct massive amounts of property for tax purposes. They can't invest millions into something than claim losses.

Accountants? I mean sorta but not the biggest factor. I mean the rich can afford the best and I think we can agree that you need millions to say setup up tax shelters here and maybe in foreign countries. In short it's about the money but not matter how much you need laws.



Not really.

For the wealthy, banks, and other corporations, the tax reform package was considered a lopsided victory given its significant and permanent tax cuts to corporate profits, investment income, estate tax, and more.

I'm not tax expert but if you want to argue loopholes I mean they cut corporate taxes from 35% to 21%. You would need an almost ironclad loophole to make up that 14%. Oh also there are many articles that corporations are paying single digits since Trump tax bill. Look at trump 2019 and 202 he is around 4%. Loopholes done?

The Oh btw the middle class tax cuts are done in 2025 while corporate is forever. The good ole make the middle class temporary so when next 2024 election the Republicans can tell the people the Dems want to raise your taxes which depends on how you look at it but sure since those tax cuts may not be renewed.

Many of the tax benefits set up to help individuals and families will expire in 2025.




Umm yeah, you were fooled on this one.

Nonetheless, for the real estate industry, pass-through taxation will likely continue to dominate because the effective rate, considering distribution/dividends, is lower, and disposing of property is simpler from a tax-planning perspective through a partnership; this gives structuring firms options on how they utilize real estate. However, one beneficiary of the reduced corporate rate is the real estate investment trust (REIT). REITs are vehicles that investors use in the real estate industry. The new rate will benefit REITs that distribute 90 percent of their taxable income annually or have taxable REIT subsidiaries. REITs should consider distributing only 90 percent of taxable income to retain more cash for operations and development. Then the remaining 10 percent of taxable income will be taxable to the REIT but at a lower rate.


Cmon this is Trump if he can write the rules he is not going to make a law that kills him.



I'm sorry this is the con and don't fall for it. You and the rich do not have the same tax deductions. Stop thinking child tax credits or being married is the same of rich being able to buy a 2nd, 3rd or more multi-million dollar homes as tax right offs.

Can you or I should say the average person afford a 2nd home, charity donations, business deduction, depreciation deductions, etc?

Oh, I agree with you. I was stating that there should be no more deductions for real estate losses and anything else the rich use to offset their taxes. There should be a single deduction for personal, one for children and one for business expenses that go to the improvement of the business. Otherwise, no other deductions. It would remove any loopholes that are there that are generally used.

I know those deductions that were in the bill are gone. They were temporary. Hell, I know I pointed it out on one of these threads that very thing is one of the reasons why it was a bad tax bill to begin with.

The powers that be won't ever change the tax code because the benefit from it.

[Paranoid Android]

Oh, I agree with you. I was stating that there should be no more deductions for real estate losses and anything else the rich use to offset their taxes. There should be a single deduction for personal, one for children and one for business expenses that go to the improvement of the business. Otherwise, no other deductions. It would remove any loopholes that are there that are generally used.

I know those deductions that were in the bill are gone. They were temporary. Hell, I know I pointed it out on one of these threads that very thing is one of the reasons why it was a bad tax bill to begin with.

The powers that be won't ever change the tax code because the benefit from it.

Agree with. Good discussion.

This is why I posted that Trump may not be in as much deep of trouble as it seems. He likely did shady book keeping and tax practices but it is also likely he can hide behind our many unbalanced and favored tax laws to an elite few.

Different post here. Nothing to do with above conversation:

From last year - among the public's top frustrations with the federal tax system was the feeling that 'some wealthy people don't pay their fair share.'
59% of all adults said this bothers them 'a lot,' including 78% of Democrats and 36% of Republicans.

Okay, sorta good(?) that a majority think wealthy don't pay a fair share buy only 59%.

Looking further this is very skewed by only 36% of Republicans who believe this. I will link below but breaks it down by party, age, race, education, income and politics.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ay-fair-share/

[cubby]

Trump tax audits required by IRS were delayed, panel says

The IRS failed to pursue mandatory audits of Donald Trump on a timely basis during his presidency, a congressional panel found on Tuesday, raising questions about statements by the former president and leading members of his administration who claimed he could not release his tax filings because of the ongoing reviews.

A report released by the Democratic majority on the House Ways and Means Committee indicated the Trump administration may have disregarded an IRS requirement dating back to 1977 that mandates audits of a president’s tax filings. The IRS only began to audit Trump’s 2016 tax filings on April 3, 2019, more than two years into Trump’s presidency and just months after Democrats took control of the House. That date coincides with Rep. Richard Neal, the panel chairman, asking the IRS for information related to Trump’s tax returns.

While the panel stopped short of saying "Trump did this personally" I'm just going to say that on my own. There is no other reason that Trump, who told America he was being audited, wouldn't be audited even though that's mandatory federal law.

And his idiot followers will continue to not care about reality. Mildly surprised Faux "News" even mentioned it (I do love that they cited the Committee rather than the IRS for the information though - klassy).

[Twdft]

Even the year he paid a million dollar taxes on an income of over 24m that's just 4% income tax. Fucking crazy. Low earners in Germany pay 14% and it goes up to 45%

[Cthulhu 2020]

You also have to wonder how much of that 2018 positive income was from laundered money donated by foreign powers.

[beanman12345]

This is why I posted that Trump may not be in as much deep of trouble as it seems. He likely did shady book keeping and tax practices but it is also likely he can hide behind our many unbalanced and favored tax laws to an elite few.

I don't agree.

Prosecutors in Manhattan wanted to and would have successfully put Trump in prison from his last 5-10 years of taxes. It wasn't "unbalanced and favored tax laws to an elite" that prevented justice, it was a chickenshit DA who chose a slap on the wrist instead of prison. And the AG of NY is very likely going to succeed in ending the Trump org and preventing Trump and his kids from working in NY ever again.

I'm certainly not convinced, Trump, with a lifetime of cheating and grifting, with the same accountants(one of whom is going to prison for cheating on Trump's taxes) so egregiously broke state tax laws, but managed to keep 100% above board on his federal taxes. Did Trump pay nothing in taxes by using the same loopholes all the mega rich do? Absolutely. Did Trump also commit crimes? I bet he did and after some digging the public will find them. I do agree that I don't think he's in much trouble over this, but only because Garland seems as chicken shit as that DA.

[Breccia]

Umm from what I read last night (don't have source)that these audits were mandatory.

You don't need a source, I cited one.

[D Luniz]

So, in a quick aside to "grifting grifter is grifting"

Remember the Trump NFTs?
Well they weren't his to NFT.

Trump’s Badly Photoshopped NFTs Appear to Use Photos From Small Clothing Brands

[Breccia]

Remember the Trump NFTs?
Well they weren't his to NFT.

To list some of them:

1) The small clothing brand you quoted
2) a tuxedo from Men's Warehouse
3) a Shutterstock (also copyrighted!) image that looks like Top Gun: Maverick
4) a picture of Trump golfing in 2011 --

"Wait, why is that one a problem?"

Because it's a Reuters photo. It is both edited and sold without, one assumes, the permission of the photographer.
5) There's an Abode watermark hidden in the fog of one

I still maintain that Trump, and likely even Team Trump, didn't make these. They were sent to him by his rabid fanbase. That changes nothing, by the way, if someone steals and item and you sell that stolen item, that's a crime.

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So, Trump avoided taxes for years and years because he kept losing money, more than his income. Okay, that's 100% on-brand, we know he's done that in the past. He's a fat orange failure, no question.

Here's the next step: if Trump claims that he lost so much money in real estate, do his loaners and his insurers know that? Because we know he had a serious issue with telling his loaners one value, and his insurers another. Perhaps the IRS could break the tie? Or, perhaps he told the IRS yet a third value -- and lying to the IRS is a big deal. Federal law says he should have been audited in 2020 when he claimed $0 income, which is just one example of course, but he held the IRS back from their due legal dilligence.

I don't think even Trump is stupid enough to outright lie to the IRS -- and I won't cry a tear if I'm wrong, because, you know, felony. But I do imagine his claims of losses are news to the people holding his loans, who should be concerned they're not getting their money back from a repeated public loser.

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In Testimony, Hannity and Other Fox Employees Said They Doubted Trump’s Fraud Claims

Bla bla bla paywall but you know where this is going. Hannity and FOX News in general pushed voter fraud stories that they either (a) had done zero research on and did not know were true, or (b) knew for a fact were false.

"Okay, but FOX News already admitted under oath they're not really a news company and sane people don't listen to Hannity. What does this get anyone, besides of course proving that Trump supporters willingly believed objective liars?"

I can give you one point six billion reasons.

On Nov. 30, 2020, Sean Hannity hosted Sidney Powell on his prime-time Fox News program. As she had in many other interviews around that time — on Fox and elsewhere in right-wing media — Ms. Powell, a former federal prosecutor, spun wild conspiracy theories about what she said was “corruption all across the country, in countless districts,” in a plot to steal re-election from the president, Donald J. Trump.

At the center of this imagined plot were machines from Dominion Voting Systems, which Ms. Powell claimed ran an algorithm that switched votes for Mr. Trump to votes for Joseph R. Biden Jr. Dominion machines, she insisted, were being used “to trash large batches of votes.”

Mr. Hannity interrupted her with a gentle question that had been circulating among election deniers, despite a lack of supporting proof: Why were Democrats silencing whistle-blowers who could prove this fraud?

Did Mr. Hannity believe any of this?

“I did not believe it for one second.”

That was the answer Mr. Hannity gave, under oath, in a deposition in Dominion’s $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against Fox News, according to information disclosed in a court hearing on Wednesday. The hearing was called to address several issues that need to be resolved before the case heads for a jury trial, which the judge has scheduled to begin in April.

FOX News might have some fine print somewhere that they're not really news, but let's review the four stages of defamation.

To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact; 2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person; 3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and 4) damages, or some harm caused to the reputation of the person or entity who is the subject of the statement.

Parts 2 and 4 are objective. Nothing FOX News can say will change those.

Part 1 is damn near a slam dunk, as quoted in the NYTimes article. The "fraud" was pushed as if it was fact, when it was not.

And now, Part 3 is out in the open. Hannity did not believe the things he was saying, yet he said them anyhow. That, at the very minimum, is negligence.

Or, I guess Hannity could recant and say he lied under oath. I don't think, at this point, he would even if it was true. Even being fired is better than jail.

The Dominion lawsuit jury seems like they have a pretty eash verdict to reach.

Hannity was not the only FOX News host and/or exec to admit such under oath and/or to have their communications put into evidence. So it's not just him. And it gets worse.

Another previously unknown detail emerged on Wednesday about what was going on inside the Fox universe in those frantic weeks after the election. A second lawyer representing Dominion, Justin Nelson, told Judge Davis about evidence obtained by Dominion showing that an employee of the Fox Corporation, the parent company of Fox News, had tried to intervene with the White House to stop Ms. Powell. According to Mr. Nelson, that employee called the fraud claims “outlandish” and pressed Mr. Trump’s staff to get rid of Ms. Powell, who was advising the president on filing legal challenges to the results.

Mr. Nelson said that evidence cut straight to the heart of whether the Fox Corporation, which is controlled by Rupert and Lachlan Murdoch, was also liable for defamation. Judge Davis ruled in June that Dominion could sue the larger, highly profitable corporation, which includes the Fox network on basic television and a lucrative sports broadcasting division.

In other words, not only did FOX News know the story was false, they even tried to get Trump to stop telling the falsehood. This, again, is evidence that FOX News willfully pushed a story they knew was false and injurious.

FOX News hasn't batted zero in this lawsuit. The communications I just mentioned are sealed, for example. But it seems likely that FOX News, and therefore one would hope Giuliani and Powell, will get slapped hard by this revalation. Hannity's assertion doesn't mean Powell knew the claims were false, but it's not exactly a mark in their favor. Nor will "nobody should take a WH lawyer seriously".

I'm counting Hannity's revelation as twenty CNN points. Meaning, at this point, I could cite CNN every week for a year, and nobody in Team Trump is allowed to source-shame. If Hannity willfully lies on a scale this big, CNN's bias -- which are not currently at the center of a billion-dollar lawsuit -- is not the problem anymore. Independants, Democrats, and non-Americans may still object to my use of CNN if they wish.