Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Corvus]

So Trump willingly admitted he wanted to be the new Neville Chamberlain and repeat the Sudetenland incident? Maybe someone better remind him what happened after that.

[Kaleredar]

So Trump willingly admitted he wanted to be the new Neville Chamberlain and repeat the Sudetenland incident? Maybe someone better remind him what happened after that.

Not entirely accurate.

It would be more apt vis-a-vis Trump/Putin if Chamberlain had been being paid off by Hitler.

[Breccia]

So it's been a while. Trump made a big showing at CPAC and has been 發*博 like crazy, flooding his own social media with campaign info.

Let's check on that stock price!

Oh...$14.30 at close. That's 1.85% down for the day, and also, down for the week.

(checks again)

Month.

(checks again)

YTD.

(checks again)

I do plan to finish eventually, Kif.

(checks again)

Other than the $10 launch price, this is the lowest it has literally ever been.

I suppose there are people who are dumping now because Trump is taking the run seriously, and expecting him to bail on his own platform and return to FB and Twitter. One, that doesn't make these people selling today smart. They are, after all, investing in a Trump company and stuck with it while it did nothing but decline. They're not smart, they're just not as dumb as people who haven't left.

I suppose there are people who bought at launch, waited until today, then sold. Instead of selling at literally any other day in the stock's existence. Yeah, they're not getting any credit either.

I think we are in "pushing people into the ocean for the last piece of Titanic flotsam" range.

[callipygoustp]

Tucker Carlson said in private messages that he actually hates Trump 'passionately:' 'I can't handle much more of this'

Bullet points at the top of article:

Fox News host Tucker Carlson bashed former President Donald Trump in private, per new court filings.

Newly released texts show Carlson telling a confidant in 2021 that he hated Trump "passionately."

They also reveal how Carlson fantasized about not having to cover Trump after the latter's 2020 loss.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Ivanka Trump throws brothers and father under bus in New York fraud suit

Ivanka Trump, the eldest daughter of former president Donald Trump, has asked for a delay in bringing the $250m fraud lawsuit filed against her, her brothers, her father and their family’s eponymous real estate company to trial because a defence arguing that she wasn’t responsible for fraudulent financial statements issued by the company will take more time to prepare.

In court documents, Ms Trump’s attorneys argue that the fraud complaint filed last year against her and her co-defendants by New York Attorney General Letitia James “does not contain a single allegation that Ms. Trump directly or indirectly created, prepared, reviewed, or certified any of her father's financial statements."

"Other individuals were responsible for those tasks,” her lawyers wrote.

The judge overseeing the fraud lawsuit, New York State Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron, has said the 2 October trial will commence on time “come hell or high water,” but Ms Trump’s request for delay cites the “unique” circumstances of her role in the case and notes that she has not been accused of lying about her father’s finances despite her former role as a top executive at the Trump Organization.

Ivanka Trump’s Latest Legal Move May Signal That She’s Done Protecting Donald Trump

----

I find myself chuckling over this...

Trump family gets other people to prepare statements, signs off on those statements, and when those statements are brought into court, they go "NOW HOLD ON, other people said those things, we just rubber stamped and gave them the thumbs up. We didn't actually think those things up." It seems throwing allies and employees under the bus is a Trump family past time.

[Nymrohd]

Trump family gets other people to prepare statements, signs off on those statements, and when those statements are brought into court, they go "NOW HOLD ON, other people said those things, we just rubber stamped and gave them the thumbs up. We didn't actually think those things up." It seems throwing allies and employees under the bus is a Trump family past time.

To be fair, you can be in plenty of high ranking positions and not at all be involved in certifying financial documents.

[Twdft]

To be fair, you can be in plenty of high ranking positions and not at all be involved in certifying financial documents.

You're still responsible for what you sign/approve though? Why do that if it doesn't mean anything.

[Nymrohd]

You're still responsible for what you sign/approve though? Why do that if it doesn't mean anything.

What I meant is, it is entirely possible Ivanka specifically was in a position where she would not have to approve an audit/financial statement report. They are very much arguing that her signature is in none of those documents and that is entirely possible. Like e.g. if she is VP of the organization and the President already signed, she did not need to sign as well.

[draynay]

To be fair

Does anybody really want that?

[Nymrohd]

Does anybody really want that?

In a common law country where precedent matters? Yes, I think we want to be fair. I am sure she did something else shitty they can hound her for. But if she did not sign those documents, even if she had the authority to do so, she should not be held liable for them.

[Shadowferal]

What I meant is, it is entirely possible Ivanka specifically was in a position where she would not have to approve an audit/financial statement report. They are very much arguing that her signature is in none of those documents and that is entirely possible. Like e.g. if she is VP of the organization and the President already signed, she did not need to sign as well.

*nods* Sometimes it's a stamped-created signature.

[Breccia]

"NOW HOLD ON, other people said those things, we just rubber stamped and gave them the thumbs up. We didn't actually think those things up.".

Let them try that.

It's the company being sued. If that's an admission of company behavior and policy, they're basically pleading guilty.

I would hope, but don't have much confidence in, that a judge would respond to "I just signed the forms without reading them" with "well maybe this judgement against you will change your policy".

[Shadowferal]

Let them try that.
It's the company being sued. If that's an admission of company behavior and policy, they're basically pleading guilty.
I would hope, but don't have much confidence in, that a judge would respond to "I just signed the forms without reading them" with "well maybe this judgement against you will change your policy".

Not reasonable, and you know that.
You'd eventually have to go after companies such as ADP that typically process checks and tax-related info for their respective clients.
Yea...I know it sucks, but that's how our system is today. Anything connected to accounting is contracted out of HR..

[Gorsameth]

Not reasonable, and you know that.
You'd eventually have to go after companies such as ADP that typically process checks and tax-related info for their respective clients.
Yea...I know it sucks, but that's how our system is today. Anything connected to accounting is contracted out of HR..

I wish the notion that the buck stops at the top actually held some meaning.

Top functions get payed insane amounts but when something goes wrong they are never responsible for anything.

[Shadowferal]

I wish the notion that the buck stops at the top actually held some meaning. Top functions get payed insane amounts but when something goes wrong they are never responsible for anything.

An acquaintance of mine once said that a lot of politicians should be strung up on utility poles around the whitehouse and congress, and every 5th pole should be a ceo/president of a major company for what they've done to the country.

Older liberal guy that probably enjoyed the 60s a bit too much, however he thought opening trade with China was a mistake.

R.I.P. dude.

[Breccia]

You'd eventually have to go after companies such as ADP that typically process checks and tax-related info for their respective clients.

I don't agree, in this case. The issue in this lawsuit is that Trump Org the business committed multiple crimes with knowledge and intent. Whether it was Steve in the mailroom forging a form that Trump signed without reading, or Trump himself giving orders from the top, "shouldn't" matter.

A bank issuing or paying a check would not have knowledge or intent.

An accounting firm that conspired with Trump Org to break the law would. Bring charges against them, too, that would be criminal behavior.

However, and I think this is the case here, an accounting firm being told "these are the correct values for our properties, use them to finish our taxes" not only has neither knowledge nor intent of the fraud, but has likely cooperated with the AG already to protect themselves. After all, the accounting firm would have the direct communications from their clients saying "we say these values are accurate", either on the form itself (NY loves to have paragraphs of fine print on everything) or in the contract Trump Org signed with the accounting firm. Not only would the accountants likely be in the clear, in this case, but they'd also be cooperative witnesses to clear their name from the stench of "helped Trump Org cheat NYState out of huge piles of taxes".

If you can prove knowledge and intent, then it's not a slippery slope. It's arresting criminals.

[Nymrohd]

Let them try that.

It's the company being sued. If that's an admission of company behavior and policy, they're basically pleading guilty.

I would hope, but don't have much confidence in, that a judge would respond to "I just signed the forms without reading them" with "well maybe this judgement against you will change your policy".

Again, the defense seems to be that she personally did not really sign any of them. Which would not be weird, you don't need everyone's signature for these things.

[Gorsameth]

I don't agree, in this case. The issue in this lawsuit is that Trump Org the business committed multiple crimes with knowledge and intent. Whether it was Steve in the mailroom forging a form that Trump signed without reading, or Trump himself giving orders from the top, "shouldn't" matter.

A bank issuing or paying a check would not have knowledge or intent.

An accounting firm that conspired with Trump Org to break the law would. Bring charges against them, too, that would be criminal behavior.

However, and I think this is the case here, an accounting firm being told "these are the correct values for our properties, use them to finish our taxes" not only has neither knowledge nor intent of the fraud, but has likely cooperated with the AG already to protect themselves. After all, the accounting firm would have the direct communications from their clients saying "we say these values are accurate", either on the form itself (NY loves to have paragraphs of fine print on everything) or in the contract Trump Org signed with the accounting firm. Not only would the accountants likely be in the clear, in this case, but they'd also be cooperative witnesses to clear their name from the stench of "helped Trump Org cheat NYState out of huge piles of taxes".

If you can prove knowledge and intent, then it's not a slippery slope. It's arresting criminals.

The world would probably be a better place if accounting firms were expected to do their own due diligence as a secondary layer to prevent fraud.

Its all to easy to just say "He gave me bullshit numbers and I never bothered to check if they were correct"

[Breccia]

Again, the defense seems to be that she personally did not really sign any of them. Which would not be weird, you don't need everyone's signature for these things.

A defense which does not help the company at all. The fraudulent mismatched values came from the company. It's the entity at risk.

I am taking Ivanka's "well it wasn't me" as a sign that individuals involved are just now realizing that, not only is the company fucked because of their direct words and actions, but they personally could be next.

In other words, the crew of the Titanic should be asking why the first mate and navigator are getting into a lifeboat.

Its all to easy to just say "He gave me bullshit numbers and I never bothered to check if they were correct"

When a nobody teacher making USA average salary goes to Turbo Tax and says "I paid $1000 in sales tax, I want to deduct that" or whatever, I don't expect Turbo Tax is all that concerned when I get caught by NYState saying "um, no you didn't" They do millions of taxes per year on random-ass people. Turbo Tax will not take a PR hit when I use their product, get audited, get caught, and get penalized. They might not even notice.

When an accounting firm lands a client as big as Trump Org, they brag about that. "Oh, we did X and Y and Z and saved them millions" they say, to attract other rich clients. This is where your "due dilligence" kicks in. Banks, tax professionals, accountants and lawyers who get caught with a cheating client should also take a hit -- and I believe in this case, they already have.

Maybe they can do due dilligence, maybe they just should, but I would bet they have contracts or other paperwork along the lines of a EULA. "If you cheat and we don't bother to find out, it's still your fault" kind of language, to protect them from exactly this.

Hopefully we get a result that actually shows America that not even the rich are above the law. The evidence seems pretty clear. Trump Org could, at best, claim it was all a big accident because the numbers were given by two different departments, which in turn, is admission they're not capable of running a large business. Even that could easily fail in a court of law. Once it's proven that this was intentional behavior, the exact hand that signed the form should no longer matter. The target is Trump Org, for now, not an individual CEO, exec, or file clerk.

[Poopymonster]

I wish the notion that the buck stops at the top actually held some meaning.

Top functions get payed insane amounts but when something goes wrong they are never responsible for anything.

You could replace half the stuffed suits in middle management at a company and not miss a beat.
Louise from Accounting can't get her Email open, the whole fucking place can grind to a halt.