Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Taifuu]

As good a place as any to put this, if it hasn't already been linked in some way.

21% of Fox News Viewers Trust Network Less After Texts Revealed in Dominion Lawsuit: Survey

Much more in the link, including graphs and such.

As low as the numbers are, its still something, I guess.

I am genuinely shocked the number is that high. I hadn't actually expected that to make any difference to any Fox news viewer since just watching them should be obvious that they lie.

[Breccia]

Speaking of FOX News:

FOX News/Tucker Carlson asked 2024 GOP hopefulls about Russia, Ukraine, and regime change in either. Most of the responses, as you can see from the article on FOX News I linked (+1 CNN point) weren't big fans of regime change in Russia. Which I get, it's one thing to support Ukraine against a genocidal invasion/war to help them defend themselves, but it's another thing to attack a superpower-ish country and go after their leaders directly. The answers to "regime change in Russia" was pretty much "no" across the board, and answer I at the very minimum understand. Pence, in particular, suggested that Putin could run out of money by 2024 and barely be able to afford a GOP election.

But um...the FOX News article shown above didn't give the full story of what Carlson said on the air.

Or his Twitter feed.

We should support regime change in the United States, that's far more important

-- Donald Trump

"Whoa whoa whoa, that doesn't mean violence or breaking the law

I mean, he literally tried that once, I think it's valid to assume yes it does.

"No, he means a peaceful transition of power!"

I mean, the commonly agreed-upon definition does not agree with that attempt of What He Meant Was. Wikipedia even says "not to be confused with peaceful transition of power" because they're not the same.

"But they could be!"

I mean, the Oxford English Dictionary also doesn't agree.

"But they could be!"

Or Encyclopedia Britannica.

"You're not getting it. Trump is merely using a definition of a term commonly used by everyone else to mean one horrible thing, but instead meant another with no clarification or context to explain the gap!"

...didn't Trump claim he won in 2020?

"Yes."

So...wouldn't regime change therefore m--

"No no, he meant, a change from a situation where he won and is the leader of the free world but nobody is letting him, to a situation where he won and is the leader of the free world and can go back to persecuting his enemies and violating the Constitution at whim. But he didn't mean with force or breaking the law, despite everything he's said and done since 2015. He just wants the American people to put the right person in power."

So, an election?

"Yes!"

We did that. He lost. The next one is late next year. Did Trump forget we had those? Seems kinda odd considering he's almost the only one running. Did Trump think we forgot we had those?

"Look, when Trump said regime change in the United States, What He Meant Was--"

Question: why didn't you just say Tucker Carlson lied?

"...what?"

I mean, you seem pretty defensive that Trump outright said he wanted to violently overthrow the official and legal US govt. But all we have is Tucker Carlson reading a piece of paper he claims is Trump's. Why not just say "Carlson lied, Trump doesn't want regime change"? We know Carlson lies, there's a whole thread on it.

"Um..."

Is it because you really believe Trump isn't the legal leader of the United States, but wants to be put back in power against the will of its people and government? Because what Carlson said, even if false, is 100% lock-step with Trump's public words and actions?

"..."

Yeah, there's no getting out of this. I'm half-expecting a Trump retroactive clarification via spokestwit but half not because I think his rabid fanbase, including Trump supporters on these forums, agree with what he said. You know the usual drill, Trump supporters are assumed to agree with things Trump says and does unless they say otherwise, and while that might stretch credibility at times (overcooked steak with ketchup), "Trump should be put back into power" has been a pretty consistently solidly-held belief since mid-Nov 2020. I think this isn't a new thing, I think this is a continuation, and I think Trump supporter that didn't believe or agree with this have had years to say so.

If they haven't, they're complicit with terrorism.

- - - Updated - - -

I am genuinely shocked the number is that high. I hadn't actually expected that to make any difference to any Fox news viewer since just watching them should be obvious that they lie.

In retrospect, I'm not. Classic conservatives watch FOX News because they don't have a lot of other places to go. Can you imagine Skroe watching OANN? I can imagine a fair number of people who let themselves be pulled into the Party of Trump to have second thoughts, especially on a sealed poll.

[Taifuu]

Yeah, there's no getting out of this. I'm half-expecting a Trump retroactive clarification via spokestwit but half not because I think his rabid fanbase, including Trump supporters on these forums, agree with what he said. You know the usual drill, Trump supporters are assumed to agree with things Trump says and does unless they say otherwise, and while that might stretch credibility at times (overcooked steak with ketchup), "Trump should be put back into power" has been a pretty consistently solidly-held belief since mid-Nov 2020. I think this isn't a new thing, I think this is a continuation, and I think Trump supporter that didn't believe or agree with this have had years to say so.

If they haven't, they're complicit with terrorism.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...jan-6-rioters/

Among Republicans, 58 percent opposed the attack on the U.S. Capitol while 33 percent backed it and 9 percent said they were not sure.

Just 40 percent of Republicans polled back the Jan. 6 panel compared to 51 percent who do not.

I am surprised that the number isn't higher, but that's still a third of Republicans who just outright oppose democracy.

[Tentim]

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...jan-6-rioters/



I am surprised that the number isn't higher, but that's still a third of Republicans who just outright oppose democracy.

I don't know how many people really believe in democracy including politicans. If they did I doubt the filibuster would exist still. The capital hill debacle is embarrassing all around... but I'm not shocked people think a open democracy is ineffective.

[Edge-]

I don't know how many people really believe in democracy including politicans.

Conservatives really seem to be making it clear how much they hate democracy. Don't project that onto others.

If they did I doubt the filibuster would exist still.

This...is a really weird thing to focus on here and also wholly irrelevant.

The capital hill debacle is embarrassing all around... but I'm not shocked people think a open democracy is ineffective.

Debacle? You mean assault on the Capitol by riotous insurrectionists seeking to overturn the election.

What does open democracy have to do with anything? You're all over the place.

[Tentim]

Conservatives really seem to be making it clear how much they hate democracy. Don't project that onto others.



This...is a really weird thing to focus on here and also wholly irrelevant.



Debacle? You mean assault on the Capitol by riotous insurrectionists seeking to overturn the election.

What does open democracy have to do with anything? You're all over the place.

I think everyone loves democracy when it aligns with what they want. I mean it was a debacle... if they wanted to violently overturn an election they would of just shot them.

It's a weird conversation to have. The entire event was filmed but I've seen such absurd accounts on what occurred.

[Edge-]

I think everyone loves democracy when it aligns with what they want. I mean it was a debacle... if they wanted to violently overturn an election they would of just shot them.

Ah, so because they didn't mass-murder everyone, just violently broke into the building, assaulted dozens of law enforcement officers (including quite a few brutal attacks), ransacked offices and stole property, hung a gallows, some placed bombs around DC, some were actually armed, and many were explicitly and actively searching for members of Congress to "detain", it was just like, not actually that big of a deal then?

It's a weird conversation to have. The entire event was filmed but I've seen such absurd accounts on what occurred.

Yes, so absurd. Clearly there was no crush of rioters assaulting and rushing a doorway being blocked by officers, repeatedly pushing in an attempt to knock them over/back while individuals in front grab at the facemasks and faces of officers there. There was an officer screaming in pain as he was physically crushed in the doorway.

[Tentim]

Ah, so because they didn't mass-murder everyone, just violently broke into the building, assaulted dozens of law enforcement officers (including quite a few brutal attacks), ransacked offices and stole property, hung a gallows, some placed bombs around DC, some were actually armed, and many were explicitly and actively searching for members of Congress to "detain", it was just like, not actually that big of a deal then?





Yes, so absurd. Clearly there was no crush of rioters assaulting and rushing a doorway being blocked by officers, repeatedly pushing in an attempt to knock them over/back while individuals in front grab at the facemasks and faces of officers there. There was an officer screaming in pain as he was physically crushed in the doorway.

First I've heard of explosives. As for the rest can you really not see disconnect between them having weapons and not using them?

It was a debacle but it wasn't some coordinated strike. It was a bunch of boomers stealing office supplies.

[jonnysensible]

First I've heard of explosives. As for the rest can you really not see disconnect between them having weapons and not using them?

It was a debacle but it wasn't some coordinated strike. It was a bunch of boomers stealing office supplies.

the stated goal was stopping the certification (which is why the day was chosen). They had a mistaken belief that Vice President Mike Pence could ignore the Electoral Count Act and unilaterally refuse to count electoral votes from some states or indefinitely delay counting.

It was a sloppy dry run. Meant to be combined with the stolen election lawsuits. Clearly it was coordinated. You have to be living under a rock not to see that.

[Edge-]

First I've heard of explosives.

I mean...it's kinda shocking that you haven't heard of or don't remember unless you've been avoiding all this news: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rewa...ry?id=96184838

As for the rest can you really not see disconnect between them having weapons and not using them?

Short of wanting there to be more of a bloodbath, not really.

Because also - https://www.thetrace.org/2021/01/cap...ts-proud-boys/

Yeah, cops arrested a lot of people before Jan. 6 who brought guns to Washington DC.

Again, you seem to be studiously ignoring any and all information that doesn't conform to your desired view of the attack on the Capitol building.

It was a debacle but it wasn't some coordinated strike. It was a bunch of boomers stealing office supplies.

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/12/11111...ers-proud-boys

Except there was quite a bit of coordination. And stealing government laptops and rifling through paperwork on desks, photographing every page, page by page, isn't "stealing office supplies".

If I didn't know better I'd think you're intentionally lying and repeating long-debunked talking points from far-right extremists like Tucker Carlson.

[Tentim]

You were there, weren't you?

Not sure why else you'd have to downplay to this monstrous extent except to defend yourself and/or others.

It was recorded... there isn't a need for dramatization

- - - Updated - - -

I mean...it's kinda shocking that you haven't heard of or don't remember unless you've been avoiding all this news: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rewa...ry?id=96184838



Short of wanting there to be more of a bloodbath, not really.

Because also - https://www.thetrace.org/2021/01/cap...ts-proud-boys/

Yeah, cops arrested a lot of people before Jan. 6 who brought guns to Washington DC.

Again, you seem to be studiously ignoring any and all information that doesn't conform to your desired view of the attack on the Capitol building.



https://www.npr.org/2022/07/12/11111...ers-proud-boys

Except there was quite a bit of coordination. And stealing government laptops and rifling through paperwork on desks, photographing every page, page by page, isn't "stealing office supplies".

If I didn't know better I'd think you're intentionally lying and repeating long-debunked talking points from far-right extremists like Tucker Carlson.

It was a day before to be fair on the pipe bomber and targeted both parties it seems unrelated... hard to tell till hes caught.

When there are national treasures on display stealing office supplies is still stealing office supplies. It's wrong but like I said there isn't a need to be dramatic

[Edge-]

It was a day before to be fair on the pipe bomber and targeted both parties it seems unrelated... hard to tell till hes caught.

Considering the insurrectionists were seeking to hang Mike Pence and all, that's hardly a defense of them.

I'm glad to see you're still doing everything possible to downplay how dozens of individuals who traveled to DC to attend the riot on Jan. 6 were arrested on weapons charges on Jan. 5 as if their arrest prior to them being able to bring a gun to an insurrectionist riot somehow makes their actions...less bad?

When there are national treasures on display stealing office supplies is still stealing office supplies. It's wrong but like I said there isn't a need to be dramatic

I mean, this is just rank dishonesty from you. But it's not surprising given that you've appeared to drop your "enlightened centrist" act and reverted back to default right-wing shitposting and dishonesty.

[jonnysensible]

I mean, this is just rank dishonesty from you.

talking to a latvian who keeps getting banned from this forum for racism lol

[Breccia]

I don't know how many people really believe in democracy

This sounds like something a Trump supporter would say, trying to "both sides" out of the situation where they committed a murderous insurrection.

When there is a poll saying how Democrats or Independents feel about the Jan 6th violent attacks, do let us know. Until then, we do know how many Republicans don't believe in democracy, and as there hasn't been a violent attack of that kind for, gosh, 150 years or so otherwise, it's pretty much just them.

[masterhorus8]

This sounds like something a Trump supporter would say, trying to "both sides" out of the situation where they committed a murderous insurrection.

When there is a poll saying how Democrats or Independents feel about the Jan 6th violent attacks, do let us know. Until then, we do know how many Republicans don't believe in democracy, and as there hasn't been a violent attack of that kind for, gosh, 150 years or so otherwise, it's pretty much just them.

In before "but it was teh demoncrats that supported slavery!"

[Edge-]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-re...oofed?ref=home

So in some good news for Trump's primary hopes -

At any given fundraiser or VIP room where he’s present, Ron DeSantis is usually easy to find—in the corner, keeping to himself.

Despite having a job that entails exchanging small talk and pleasantries on a daily basis, the Florida governor tends to brush off those obligations and struggles with basic social skills, according to a source close to DeSantis, several of his former staffers, and other GOP operatives who have worked with him and his team.

As DeSantis gears up for a potential White House run in 2024, his aloof public persona is being thought of by his rivals—namely, former President Donald Trump—as his Achilles heel in the retail politics-heavy early primary states.

And even though he hasn’t announced a bid yet, DeSantis’ apparent desire to test the waters of a presidential campaign—while barely dipping a toe into the aspects he recoils from—is already being put to the test.

During his donor retreat in Palm Beach in late February, an attendee stood up and called him “DeSatan,” according to Republicans familiar with the outburst.

At his recent book tour stop in Davenport, Iowa, a volunteer English teacher and seasoned caucus enthusiast posed for a photo alongside the governor with the term “fascist” carved out within her design of a paper snowflake.

The governor’s aversion to pressing the flesh, and his concern over the risk of unexpected interactions with the public, is already so well-known that early primary state players are working to DeSantis-proof their events in order to attract the flinty would-be candidate and his tight-knit team.

The problem is, hosts often have no idea what the DeSantis team wants.

“Easily the least responsive campaign I’ve ever dealt with,” one veteran event host in an early primary state told The Daily Beast, requesting anonymity to avoid alienating the Florida governor.

“We invite, invite, invite, ping, ping, ping. We don’t hear anything,” this prominent event host said.

“He’s been tighter in his requests than other candidates,” a top New Hampshire Republican told The Daily Beast, adding that only former House Speaker Newt Gingrich came to mind as a bigger “nightmare” to deal with.

During his Iowa swing, DeSantis’ apparent use of bike racks to create space between himself and a crowd didn’t go unnoticed elsewhere. “If they want 50 bike racks, we’ll give them 50 bike racks,” a New Hampshire GOP lawmaker quipped to The Daily Beast. A representative for DeSantis did not return a request for comment for this story.

While DeSantis is winning over supporters in the conservative movement for his hard-right brand of politics—and has impressed with his electoral success in once-purple Florida—his untested skills under the bright lights of a presidential campaign have led operatives and pundits to wonder if he is just the second coming of Jeb Bush or Scott Walker.

There's more in the article itself, but the line on his lack of social skills brings new relevance to this picture -



Trump might not be so boned after all if DeSantis really struggles this much to actually portray himself as a personable human being that actually likes people. At least if they don't correct his pronunciation of "Thai" when he intentionally pronounces it wrong.

[The Stormbringer]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-re...oofed?ref=home

So in some good news for Trump's primary hopes -

There's more in the article itself, but the line on his lack of social skills brings new relevance to this picture -

Trump might not be so boned after all if DeSantis really struggles this much to actually portray himself as a personable human being that actually likes people. At least if they don't correct his pronunciation of "Thai" when he intentionally pronounces it wrong.

Why am I not surprised that this cruel weasel of a man appears to also be a misanthrope that hates people?

[Flarelaine]

Why am I not surprised that this cruel weasel of a man appears to also be a misanthrope that hates people?

He is a misanthrope but his struggle with being sociable might be plain neurodivergence. Let's not conflate the two - for the sake of all those people who struggle with their people skills without being fascists.

[Edge-]

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/u...unted-for.html

Donald Trump’s White House has failed to report more than 100 gifts from foreign nations worth more than a quarter-million dollars, and federal officials have been unable to find a life-size painting of Trump given by the president of El Salvador as well as golf clubs from the prime minister of Japan, according to a report Friday from House Democrats.

Among the unreported items are 16 gifts from Saudi Arabia worth more than $45,000 in all, including a dagger valued at up to $24,000, and 17 presents from India that include expensive cufflinks, a vase and a $4,600 model of the Taj Mahal, says the report from Democrats on the House Oversight Committee.

Gifts above a certain amount that foreign officials give to the president, vice president and their families are required under the Foreign Gifts and Decorations Act to be reported to the State Department. The report from House Democrats, citing State Department records, says the number of gifts reported by Trump and his family are lower than the number disclosed by previous presidents.

All told, the report says, though the White House did report some gifts to State between 2017 and 2019, it failed to report more than 100 foreign gifts with a total value of over a quarter-million dollars.

“Today’s preliminary findings suggest again the Trump Administration’s brazen disregard for the rule of law and its systematic mishandling of large gifts from foreign governments, including many lavish personalized gifts that vastly exceed the statutory limit in value but were never reported — some that are still missing today,” Rep. Jamie Raskin, top Democrat on the Oversight Committee, said in a statement.

A Trump spokesman did not immediately return an email seeking comment.

I look forward to the Republican silence on this obvious violation of rules, a violation that makes every member involved a potential security risk.

- - - Updated - - -

Today is just all kinds of not great news for Trump...though that's pretty common.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/17/polit...yer/index.html

In a monumental ruling Friday, a federal judge ordered Donald Trump attorney Evan Corcoran to provide additional testimony as part of an investigation into the former president’s handling of classified documents, a source familiar with the matter told CNN.

Corcoran has the potential to become one of the most crucial witnesses in special counsel Jack Smith’s criminal investigation into possible mishandling of classified records after the Trump presidency and obstruction of justice.

District Judge Beryl Howell said in an order under seal that Justice Department prosecutors have met the threshold for the crime-fraud exception for Corcoran, the source said.

[Breccia]

1) Lordy, There Were MORE Tapes

Okay, most of this is stuff we already knew about Trump's second call to Georgia government officials, I just really liked that headline.

But, there is some new info.

One juror said [at-the-tie Georgia House Speaker] Ralston proved to be “an amazing politician.”

The speaker “basically cut the president off. He said, ‘I will do everything in my power that I think is appropriate.’ … He just basically took the wind out of the sails,” the juror said. “‘Well, thank you,’ you know, is all the president could say.”

Ralston was no liberal squish. He famously opposed mailing absentee ballots to every Georgia voter during the coronavirus pandemic because “This will be extremely devastating to Republicans and conservatives in Georgia. Every registered voter is going to get one of these. … This will certainly drive up turnout.” But even he wasn’t buying what Trump and his pals were selling.

And before anyone asks if Ralston is going to testify, no, he died in November. His last words on the topic may very well be the recorded phone call(s) and any texts/emails he sent.

2) It continues to be amazing to watch as Trump attempts to run for re-election while his own Vice President calls him dangerous. One of Pence's aides used the term "horrifying".

Olivia Troye, who advised Pence on homeland security and counterterrorism before resigning in August 2020, said in a tweet on Thursday that Trump's remarks on the war in Ukraine, NATO and domestic issues could have "dangerous implications" for the future of the country.

Troye was responding to a video originally posted to the former president's Truth Social account earlier in the day. The video features a denouncement of President Joe Biden for siding with Ukraine over Russia, argues that the U.S. should "reevaluate" NATO and claims that "World War III" is on the horizon.

"Horrifying Pro-Putin message from Trump with ongoing dangerous implications for our national security & the future of our country," Troye tweeted. "Republicans need to rebuke this. Full stop."

Yes, she said that before the ICC thing.

3) Cohen has yet more advice for Trump's new lawyer.

He's a fool

...maybe "advice" was the wrong term.

While speaking with CNN's Don Lemon, Cohen was asked to respond to Tacopina's attacks on Cohen's credibility as a witness against his client.

"He is a fool," Cohen stated bluntly. "Worse than that, what's going to happen -— and again I have been by Trump's side so long, I could tell you the playbook ... Donald sent him out in order to lie, in order to continue with the narrative that only Donald wanted. He's failed in that! And so soon he will get cut off, just like so many others when Rudy messed up or Alina Habba messed up or Corcoran or Eastman or the other ones ... Tacopina will be one of many."

Cohen then challenged the notion that he will be a bad witness for prosecutors given that he admitted in the past to perjuring himself in front of Congress.

Among other things, Cohen said, his critics never note that he lied "at the direction of and for the benefit of Donald J. Trump."

Cohen is very likely talking about the "document snatch" interview, if you missed it more info here, but short version, Trump was caught in a lie and Tapioca got frustrated when he couldn't tell the difference between a lie, perjury, and violating an NDA.

4) Despite refusing to reveal his taxes...didn't he say he was under audit in 2016? It's 2023, the fuck...and claiming that fiscal disclosures are better, Trump has refused to hand those over, also.

He asked for a third extension. It was denied, as he's already had the maximum of 90 days.

Sadly, the fine is $200 or something else trivial as opposed to, say, "you didn't follow the rules and now you're not allowed to run".

5) That $8 million Russian loan Trump took for his misinformation site is causing his executives to worry, because they took Russian money to fund misinformation and got caught.

Top executives at Donald Trump’s social media company started to become concerned last spring about $8m that they had accepted from opaque entities in two emergency loans when its auditors sought further details about the payments, according to documents, emails and sources familiar with the matter.

The payments had come at a critical time for Trump Media – which runs the Truth Social platform – because it was running out of cash after its planned merger with a blank check company known as DWAC that would have unlocked $1.3bn in capital stalled pending an SEC investigation.

But the financing, which came in the form of a $2m loan from an entity called Paxum Bank registered in Dominica in December 2021 and a $6m loan from an entity called ES Family Trust in February 2022, had been arranged in a hurry and Trump Media knew next to nothing about the emergency lenders.

I mean...how didn't they see this coming?

Oh, it gets a lot worse.

The executives had good reason to be concerned: a subsequent examination revealed that the trustee of ES Family Trust was simultaneously a director of Paxum Bank, and one of the part-owners of the bank would turn out to be the relation of an ally of the Russian president, Vladimir Putin.

And, months after Trump Media came under criminal investigation for the merger by the US attorney’s office for the southern district of New York, federal prosecutors started to examine whether the company violated money-laundering statutes over the payments, the Guardian revealed on Wednesday.

Around that time, Trump Media’s chief financial officer, Phillip Juhan, weighed returning the money because of the opaque nature of its origins, former Trump Media co-founder turned whistleblower Will Wilkerson recounted in an interview.

But the money was ultimately not returned, Wilkerson said, in part because the $8m represented such a large proportion of the roughly $12m in cash that Trump Media had in its accounts that losing those funds could put the company in a precarious financial position.

That sounds like "majority shareholder" territory. Trump's social media site is, effectively, Russian-owned.