1. #83381
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    DOJ files rapid appeal of appointment of "special master".

    "Why?"

    Well, the rapid part is pretty obvious. And it's really fast.

    The DOJ’s proposed timeline would have it submit an opening brief by Oct. 14, Trump respond by Nov. 4 and the department submit a rebuttal by Nov. 11.

    The 11th Circuit Court had originally set the initial deadline for the government’s brief as Oct. 19, followed by Trump’s no later than Nov. 18. The DOJ would then need to respond by Dec. 9.

    But the department notes that any extensions given to either party could require the case to go into 2023.
    The DOJ went on to say "look, the 11th filed a ruling in six days, so this is clearly something we can do quickly, and national security is on the line, so tick tock".

    And the change in plans? Well, the 11th Will Smith'd Cannon's ruling so hard that she had to change it -- and the DOJ is now arguing that the "special master" basically no longer matters anymore. With the issue of those 100 documents settled, and of course with Team Trump refusing to do literally anything Dearie asks on the shreds of Cannon's ruling that survived the storm, Dearie's role is largely symbolic at this point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    All 16 Florida GOP Reps and both Senators voted against the stopgap spending bill.

    Which includes Hurricane Ian relief.

    Immediately following this, Rubio and Scott (who voted against it) then asked the Senate to provide more help to Florida anyhow.

    "Surely they were voting against the spending bill and the hurricane relief was being held hostage."

    That's what they'll try to say, yes. Of course, one could counter-argue that quickly attaching a rider about spending money to a bill about spending money makes a lot of sense. And you could also make the argument the bill had enough votes to pass anyway, so they could have said "I'm doing this for my voters" and gotten away with it. In any event, I do hope the next month of Rep elections brings up their voting record on every single TV in Florida that still works after the storm tore the state a new dickhole.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That new Haberman book shows just how much damage Trump inflicted on the WH by--

    "Wait, Trump's WH stuffed pictures of Hunter Biden into the WH air conditioning manual?"

    That's not the point--

    "Dude, that's just juvenile and petty. Like, super petty. Isn't the WH supposed to hire professionals?"

    Well, yeah, but I'm not here about some random staffer who apparently thought Trump's four-year-old temper tantrump personality was something to emulate. I'm talking about Mark Meadows.

    Haberman reported both “rank-and-file” staffers and members of the senior staff from the Trump administration, including then-chief of staff Mark Meadows, were not cooperative with their incoming successors, per Politico.

    Referring to Trump’s false claims that the 2020 election was stolen from him, Meadows reportedly told incoming chief of staff Ron Klain that he knew the former president was “saying these things,” but it would all be worked out.

    After Klain asked Meadows for Biden to begin receiving daily intelligence briefings, Meadows asked how many days per week Biden wanted it. Klain was reportedly “dumbstruck” by the question and told Meadows that Biden wanted it every day.

    Meadows responded that “no president ever does that” and that it’s “never happened.”

    “It seemed so beyond Meadows’ own experience that he could not comprehend it,” Haberman said in the book, according to Politico.
    Mark Meadows, the WH Chief of Staff...did not think the "daily" in "daily intelligene briefing" had any meaning. Because he'd seen Trump refuse to take briefings, and just assumed everyone else did too. Because Trump did.

    That's yet more of the damage Trump did. He was so intentionally incompetent, so intentionally nonstandard, so intentionally wrong, that he had to get a staff who thought that was the way things were done. Remember, this conversation happened after Trump fairly and legally lost the election. His term was up. There was no longer any "well he'll learn the job" going on.

    The President's Daily Brief has its own dot-gov website explaining what it is. It took me 30 seconds to find it, and only because several news sources also use that name, so I had to scroll halfway down the first page. Nobody, especially Meadows, should have thought it was strange that something called "daily" happens every day.

    There is no defending Trump. It seems every action of his was purely to cause chaos. Any disagreement to that statement can wait in line until the remaining murderous insurrectionists are sentenced.

  2. #83382
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    "Wait, Trump's WH stuffed pictures of Hunter Biden into the WH air conditioning manual?"

    That's not the point--

    "Dude, that's just juvenile and petty. Like, super petty. Isn't the WH supposed to hire professionals?"
    That is kind of funny. As in funny that they thought they were really "sticking it to Biden" with that. Reminds me of when the outgoing Clinton staffers took the Ws off of a bunch of White House keyboards.

  3. #83383
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    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    Reminds me of when the outgoing Clinton staffers took the Ws off of a bunch of White House keyboards.
    Yeah, that was unprofessional too. Funny yes, but unprofessional.

  4. #83384
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    And again you fail to understand the basics here, well you do but you are just a forum troll peddling disinformation. trump never had ownership of those documents even while he was president. They were always property of the government. He also cannot just declassify shit by thinking about it. He never went through the proper process to declassify anything that was recovered, and much of what was recovered, is not subject to declassification.

    I have had property seized, but it was property I owned. trump never owned those documents, so they were recovered.
    You started with
    Well you must since you use seized, which would assert those documents were Trumps property and not that of the governments
    I made no such implication by using seize, which only implies possession, not ownership. See, for example, improper seizures (evaluating an act that doesn't imply legal ownership, but must be evaluated), or synonym "confiscate" or the meaning of the clause "take possession of."

    I never made an ownership claim, so please respond to whatever poster that comes by and makes that claim. You're either trolling on semantics, or not reading the posts you're responding to.

    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    No, you were whining about the first amendment
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Biden's level of control of executive documents while he is in the executive office does not bother anyone.
    Sorry if I don't want legal rights and privileges subject to analysis at who it bothers. First Amendment protected speech bothers an absolute ton of people
    I'm using the First Amendment of an example of the dangers in asserting something wrong or right based on whom it bothers. Any whining you detect is purely fictitious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    you even believe Trump could declassify documents with his mind
    I don't believe it, nor ever said it.

    that he retains the powers reserved only for presidents after he has left office is all we need to see to know that you want him to have absolute power.
    He retains the ability to make that assertion, until a judge says otherwise. One just did for the subset of documents that were found to be classified. None have yet for the other twelve thousand. The DOJ acted as if it were the judicial branch with the ability to render court judgments, and now a special master is appointed to do that process for them.

    If you really think this has bearing on absolute power, maybe take a little time to reconsider the actual gravity on forcing investigators to wait a little longer to complete a review of documents it seized. Absolute power isn't a fair description of a prosecutorial delay of months. Unless you're really, really anxious.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  5. #83385
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    He retains the ability to make that assertion
    I can assert something is classified. But I can't actually do it. Trump also cannot remove classification while out of office. Which is why your following line about the judge is a lie. You are lying.

    You are also lying about the DOJ acting as the judiciary. The documents were classified, no record exists they were ever declassified, therefore, they were doing their executive office job. You are lying about that, too.

    Also, Trump has yet to say anything about the record under oath. The DOJ have. So it doesn't matter what you say about Trump's ability anyway, because Trump is not using that ability. In fact, he was asked to demonstrate he used that ability, and he refused. So not only are you lying, your lies are irrelevant.

    Stop lying.

  6. #83386
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    He retains the ability to make that assertion, until a judge says otherwise. One just did for the subset of documents that were found to be classified. None have yet for the other twelve thousand. The DOJ acted as if it were the judicial branch with the ability to render court judgments, and now a special master is appointed to do that process for them.

    If you really think this has bearing on absolute power, maybe take a little time to reconsider the actual gravity on forcing investigators to wait a little longer to complete a review of documents it seized. Absolute power isn't a fair description of a prosecutorial delay of months. Unless you're really, really anxious.
    A judge already has said that Trump doesn't have that assertion. He only has that option if he is the current sitting president. He is not, so he can't make that assertion anymore.

  7. #83387
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    A judge already has said that Trump doesn't have that assertion.
    Plus, he has it backwards. Because he's lying. Trump has not made the assertion the items are classified. His lawyers have been asked, and refused, to discuss the topic. So the opposite of what he said is true. A judge has said, I think technically four of them have, but Trump hasn't.

    You would think someone trying to defend Trump would pick something relevant to lie about. Instead he's hiding behind what "seize" means, which incidentally, he's wrong there, too. The word has a specific, legal meaning, so trying to dance around synonyms is just further proof he either is lying, or making claims about things he doesn't know as if they were fact, which is arguably worse.

  8. #83388
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...onal-archives/

    National Archives says they're still missing records.

    So they've asked for them.

    They've subpoena'd them.

    They've had the FBI execute a lawful search warrant to retrieve them.

    They still don't have them all.

    This is the first president I can think of where this problem has ever existed, much less been this severe.

    Just how many documents did Trump steal, and why is he so reluctant to give them all back?

  9. #83389
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...onal-archives/

    National Archives says they're still missing records.

    So they've asked for them.

    They've subpoena'd them.

    They've had the FBI execute a lawful search warrant to retrieve them.

    They still don't have them all.

    This is the first president I can think of where this problem has ever existed, much less been this severe.

    Just how many documents did Trump steal, and why is he so reluctant to give them all back?
    the most benign answer is "he's a little crybaby who doesn't like being told what to do by the administration that beat him"
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  10. #83390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    They still don't have them all.
    This is a massive problem. These things are not supposed to go missing.

    Simply put, based on what we know -- Trump had 200,000 pages of documents he wasn't allowed to -- the most logical explanation is Trump took them, then either sold, lost, or destroyed them. Yes, it could be someone else, but until there's any hint of another bad actor, we should be looking at the person who took everything else.

    I don't know what weight "Trump had them last, now they're gone" will have in court -- probably none. But in the existing cases, this can and should be brought up. In the surely upcoming trial when Trump is confronted with the items we did find, he surely will be asked about the items we didn't find.

    The next step is NARA disclosing what the missing items are...not to us, probably. If the DOJ has reason to believe Trump took and then either lost, sold, or destroyed a few pictures and meeting notes, it might not come up again. If more of the missing items are classified (Trump did not declassify them, or he would have said so under oath) for a good reason, the DOJ might have to start kicking in other doors. I wonder if Ivanka and Kushner mistreat their domestic staff? Because that's a good way for their location to get leaked to the feds.

  11. #83391
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...onal-archives/

    National Archives says they're still missing records.

    So they've asked for them.

    They've subpoena'd them.

    They've had the FBI execute a lawful search warrant to retrieve them.

    They still don't have them all.

    This is the first president I can think of where this problem has ever existed, much less been this severe.

    Just how many documents did Trump steal, and why is he so reluctant to give them all back?
    Does explain why they want a list of documents before they claim what was planted. The last thing they want to do is claim the FBI planted something they haven't found yet.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  12. #83392
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Does explain why they want a list of documents before they claim what was planted. The last thing they want to do is claim the FBI planted something they haven't found yet.
    They were given a list of documents and asked (by the special master, even) to verify it for accuracy. They could have claimed anything on that list was planted. They refused to engage with it at all.

  13. #83393
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    They refused to engage with it at all.
    I acknowledge that Team Trump has a tough legal route to follow while I also say I have no sympathy for them. They can't repeat Trump's lies on the stand, and they can't contradict him. That leaves a variety of "We refuse to answer" which, as we've seen, only Cannon is okay with.

  14. #83394
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    They were given a list of documents and asked (by the special master, even) to verify it for accuracy. They could have claimed anything on that list was planted. They refused to engage with it at all.
    They can't claim on the stand that any of it was planted, because none of it was, and claiming that it was would be them lying.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  15. #83395
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    They were given a list of documents and asked (by the special master, even) to verify it for accuracy. They could have claimed anything on that list was planted. They refused to engage with it at all.
    Not forcing him to verify the contents, in this case, is actually a ruling I agree with. It's basically forcing him to testify that he committed a crime, as affirming that he had a bunch of classified material he wasn't authorized to have is at the core of the espionage act case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  16. #83396
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    UPDATE: WaPo is not having it. This OP ED calls it "a new standard of despicable".

    Outrageousness, of course, is Trump’s political brand, and ignoring his rants is usually the best thing to do. His spokesman insisted that his reference to a death wish referred to a political one, rather than literal one.

    But to dismiss all of this as just Trump being Trump is to ignore what is really going on here. The Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol by his crazed followers, after a rally in which the then-president urged them to “fight like hell” to overturn the 2020 election result, should have put to rest any doubts that his words can summon violence. (Trump’s beef with Chao is fueled by the fact that she resigned from his Cabinet the next day.)

    Knowing all of this, you have to wonder: Where are McConnell’s Republican colleagues in the Senate? Why do they remain silent when Trump does something like this? Is this sort of behavior by their party’s de facto leader acceptable to them, particularly coming fewer than 40 days before an election in which they are trying to pick up the single additional seat that would give them control of the chamber? Their timidity has fostered the free-fire environment in which Trump operates.

    Also worth raising is the question of whether the stopgap spending bill was actually what triggered Trump’s eruption. It is probably no coincidence that Trump’s attack came just three days after McConnell threw his weight behind a badly needed piece of bipartisan legislation that would reform the antiquated Electoral Count Act of 1887.

    That old law lays out the process for tallying and certifying electoral votes in presidential elections; its language, however, contains ambiguities, which is what Trump and his forces were trying to exploit on Jan. 6 — the day Congress met to certify the tally of the 2020 election. Among other things, Trump pressured Vice President Mike Pence, whose role in the exercise was supposed to be ceremonial, to throw out valid votes; Pence, properly, refused.

    McConnell’s honorable decision to support reforming the Electoral Count Act, despite the fact that opposing it has become a litmus test of support for Trump, has greatly increased its chances of passing, because it now appears likely to easily muster more than the 60 votes necessary to overcome a filibuster.

    “Congress’s process for counting their presidential electors’ votes was written 135 years ago. The chaos that came to a head on January 6th of last year certainly underscored the need for an update,” McConnell said on the Senate floor. “The Electoral Count Act ultimately produced the right conclusion … but it’s clear the country needs a more predictable path.”

    The right conclusion, in this case, was that Joe Biden was legitimately elected president of the United States. But by refusing to accept Trump’s lies to the contrary, McConnell has guaranteed himself a continued place in Trump’s crosshairs.

    No doubt Trump will escalate his dangerous and vile attacks on McConnell, because that is simply who he is. But let’s be clear that there is plenty of fault to go around. The Republican Party’s refusal to denounce him for it makes them complicit.
    As a reminder, yes, people can admit they were wrong, ask for forgiveness, and try to make amends. All of those are actions. Doing nothing means you either think what you did is the right thing, or know it's wrong and did it anyhow. Neither are redeeming traits.

  17. #83397
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    You started with I made no such implication by using seize,
    You did

    I'm using the First Amendment of an example of the dangers in asserting something wrong or right based on whom it bothers. Any whining you detect is purely fictitious.
    You know we can look at your post history and see all of the whining you've done the last month, right? Every "but Hillary", whataboutism, and conspiracy theory of yours is pure whining. Hilarious as it was, and still is, it's absolutely whining.

    He retains the ability to make that assertion,
    He doesn't.

    Perhaps you can explain why Trump hasn't turned over every document? Don't know why I'm asking, you still haven't explained why it was okay for Trump to steal documents to begin with, almost as though your bias is showing.
    Last edited by Dontrike; 2022-10-02 at 01:41 AM.

    Dontrike/Shadow Priest/Black Cell Faction Friend Code - 5172-0967-3866

  18. #83398
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    You started with I made no such implication by using seize, which only implies possession, not ownership. See, for example, improper seizures (evaluating an act that doesn't imply legal ownership, but must be evaluated), or synonym "confiscate" or the meaning of the clause "take possession of."

    I never made an ownership claim, so please respond to whatever poster that comes by and makes that claim. You're either trolling on semantics, or not reading the posts you're responding to.


    I'm using the First Amendment of an example of the dangers in asserting something wrong or right based on whom it bothers. Any whining you detect is purely fictitious.

    I don't believe it, nor ever said it.

    He retains the ability to make that assertion, until a judge says otherwise. One just did for the subset of documents that were found to be classified. None have yet for the other twelve thousand. The DOJ acted as if it were the judicial branch with the ability to render court judgments, and now a special master is appointed to do that process for them.

    If you really think this has bearing on absolute power, maybe take a little time to reconsider the actual gravity on forcing investigators to wait a little longer to complete a review of documents it seized. Absolute power isn't a fair description of a prosecutorial delay of months. Unless you're really, really anxious.
    Yeah you did by using the word seized. But again, you don't understand the meaning of words you use. It's pretty obvious.

  19. #83399
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Simply put, based on what we know -- Trump had 200,000 pages of documents he wasn't allowed to
    Just for illustration, this is what 200k pages of paper look like:



    Together 1100kg.

  20. #83400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Together 1100kg.
    Ah....this takes me back. Remember this?


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