Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Belize]

Any of the Dems would have beat Trump. Trump got beat by Covid, not Biden.

Respectfully disagree. There was no way COMMUNIST SOCIALISM Sanders was beating Trump, neither was Kamala Harris as POTUS.

The former is too scary for the average American, the latter lacks any kind of mass appeal. Harris is a fine and efficient politician, but she didn't have the charisma and relatability.

[jonnysensible]

Respectfully disagree. There was no way COMMUNIST SOCIALISM Sanders was beating Trump, neither was Kamala Harris as POTUS.

The former is too scary for the average American, the latter lacks any kind of mass appeal. Harris is a fine and efficient politician, but she didn't have the charisma and relatability.

a donkey with a blue ribbon could have beaten donald trump.

if you control the senate, house and presidency but refuse to do anything about this you need your teeth kicked in. Thats it. Maybe they got distracted with the juul.

[Kaleredar]

a donkey with a blue ribbon could have beaten donald trump.

if you control the senate, house and presidency but refuse to do anything about this you need your teeth kicked in. Thats it. Maybe they got distracted with the juul.

They don’t control the senate in anything but technical numbers.

Here’s what you need to do when you imagine what it’s possible for the democrats to pass.

Think to yourself: “do manchin and sinema both want this?”

If the answer is “no,” you aren’t getting it. And no threat of “primarying them” or “talk really mean about them” is going to change their mind or coerce them; it hasn’t thus far.

[jonnysensible]

They don’t control the senate in anything but technical numbers.

Here’s what you need to do when you imagine what it’s possible for the democrats to pass.

Think to yourself: “do manchin and sinema both want this?”

If the answer is “no,” you aren’t getting it. And no threat of “primarying them” or “talk really mean about them” is going to change their mind or coerce them; it hasn’t thus far.

if you technically control something, you control it. Its wether you can be bothered to wield the power or not. But you do have it.

All this manchin + sinema shit is a boring excuse, if you cant do things with your power whats the point in you.

[Kaleredar]

if you technically control something, you control it. Its wether you can be bothered to wield the power or not. But you do have it.

All this manchin + sinema shit is a boring excuse, if you cant do things with your power whats the point in you.

Because it’s not power they actually… have?

Like, what does Biden do to make manchin and sinema do what he wants if they don’t want to. Explain the process, in detail.

[gondrin]

if you technically control something, you control it. Its wether you can be bothered to wield the power or not. But you do have it.

All this manchin + sinema shit is a boring excuse, if you cant do things with your power whats the point in you.

Thing is, the Democrats don't control the Senate. Both Manchin and Sinema are independents running as democrats as independents generally don't get voted for. Right now, there are 46 actual democrats that will generally vote the way democrats do. 2 of the people that caucus with the democrats are listed as Independent. Manchin and Sinema are literally conservate Democrats.

The makeup for the Senate is 48 Democrats, 2 Independents and 50 Republicans.

[Malkiah]

a donkey with a blue ribbon could have beaten donald trump.

if you control the senate, house and presidency but refuse to do anything about this you need your teeth kicked in. Thats it. Maybe they got distracted with the juul.

respectfully, i have to disagree - there is no dem now who could have beaten trump, and i don't know that any dem at any point in the last 100 years could have beaten trump, for 2 major reasons:

1. it was the republican's turn to be president.
look at the last 80+ years in the US. one party gets a president for a term or two, and then enough voters from the other party are pissed off about the last 8 years to show up and vote, so the other party gets to be president. back and forth.
every now and then you get an extra 1 term president, in my lifetime that was has been two republicans (bush and trump), but those are outliers in what has otherwise been an unbroken tradition since at least 1900.

2. trump is the perfect republican candidate and nobody could have beaten him.
trump as a human being is like if you took the whole of the US conservative ideology and manifested it into living flesh - he is everything conservatives admire in a human being, everything they want to be, and everything they look up to in a public figure and a leader.
trump is probably the best candidate (in terms of being exactly what his voter base wants in a presidential candidate) in the last 200 years, there was just no way that the DNC was going to get anyone with that much base appeal coming off of 8 years of a tepid conservative presidency (obama).

everyone acts like 2016 was this huge shocking moment where 'everything changed' but it absolutely wasn't.
it was simply the normal every day swing of presidential elections in the US, surrounded a bit by a cloud of the changing culture of US conservative politics because after bush and obama they realized the age of needing to pretend to be civil was truly over, and they could just say the quiet part loud because there is no longer a need to be quiet about it.

[Fugus]

respectfully, i have to disagree - there is no dem now who could have beaten trump, and i don't know that any dem at any point in the last 100 years could have beaten trump, for 2 major reasons:

1. it was the republican's turn to be president.
look at the last 80+ years in the US. one party gets a president for a term or two, and then enough voters from the other party are pissed off about the last 8 years to show up and vote, so the other party gets to be president. back and forth.
every now and then you get an extra 1 term president, in my lifetime that was has been two republicans (bush and trump), but those are outliers in what has otherwise been an unbroken tradition since at least 1900.

2. trump is the perfect republican candidate and nobody could have beaten him.
trump as a human being is like if you took the whole of the US conservative ideology and manifested it into living flesh - he is everything conservatives admire in a human being, everything they want to be, and everything they look up to in a public figure and a leader.
trump is probably the best candidate (in terms of being exactly what his voter base wants in a presidential candidate) in the last 200 years, there was just no way that the DNC was going to get anyone with that much base appeal coming off of 8 years of a tepid conservative presidency (obama).

everyone acts like 2016 was this huge shocking moment where 'everything changed' but it absolutely wasn't.
it was simply the normal every day swing of presidential elections in the US, surrounded a bit by a cloud of the changing culture of US conservative politics because after bush and obama they realized the age of needing to pretend to be civil was truly over, and they could just say the quiet part loud because there is no longer a need to be quiet about it.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you.

A goat with syphilis could have beaten Trump in a legit election. Which is why Trump tried to hard to cheat against Biden and why he lost against Clinton by the largest margin in US history and still become president due to the electoral college. And Clinton was the single most unpopular president in US history.

While Trump's base is loud and violent, they aren't and have never been the majority and only shed support as he went.

While I agree that Trump took the mask off the GOP and got many of them to show whom they really are, the Republican party is literally the 3rd biggest party in a 2 party system that has had to lie, cheat, and steal for power as is.

[Gorsameth]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you.

A goat with syphilis could have beaten Trump in a legit election. Which is why Trump tried to hard to cheat against Biden and why he lost against Clinton by the largest margin in US history and still become president due to the electoral college. And Clinton was the single most unpopular president in US history.

While Trump's base is loud and violent, they aren't and have never been the majority and only shed support as he went.

While I agree that Trump took the mask off the GOP and got many of them to show whom they really are, the Republican party is literally the 3rd biggest party in a 2 party system that has had to lie, cheat, and steal for power as is.

That's all nice and dandy but what does it matter?
The GOP achieved their goal. The country is divided, the political system is locked up and useless, the courts are packed and dismantling whatever they feel like. With Roe vs Wade gone Conservatives have scored their biggest victory in god knows how long.

Today doesn't look like the GOP losing. They don't need to control the federal government when they can just stop the Democrats from getting anywhere and achieve more through the court then they ever could in power.

[Fugus]

That's all nice and dandy but what does it matter?
The GOP achieved their goal. The country is divided, the political system is locked up and useless, the courts are packed and dismantling whatever they feel like. With Roe vs Wade gone Conservatives have scored their biggest victory in god knows how long.

Today doesn't look like the GOP losing. They don't need to control the federal government when they can just stop the Democrats from getting anywhere and achieve more through the court then they ever could in power.

The country was divided long before this, they just pulled the mask off and showed how one sided it's been where the GOP attacked us while pretending they weren't.

The courts have been packed, but can be unpacked as well while showing the nation how useless they are and you will see more starting to defy them because of it.

Row V Wade may very well turn into a Pyrrhic Victory that ends up being relatively short lived.

Remember, the majority of voters fucked in the head enough to support this will be dead within the next decade while the states will make sure it never goes into full effect.

[Gorsameth]

The country was divided long before this, they just pulled the mask off and showed how one sided it's been where the GOP attacked us while pretending they weren't.

The courts have been packed, but can be unpacked as well while showing the nation how useless they are and you will see more starting to defy them because of it.

Row V Wade may very well turn into a Pyrrhic Victory that ends up being relatively short lived.

Remember, the majority of voters fucked in the head enough to support this will be dead within the next decade while the states will make sure it never goes into full effect.

Looking at recent (2 decades) American history, I'm not buying it. When bad shit happens Americans don't decides that enough is enough, they just settle on a new normal and wait for shit to get worse.

[DarkTZeratul]

if you technically control something, you control it. Its wether you can be bothered to wield the power or not. But you do have it.

They don't in any meaningful way that allows them to wield power to actually do anything. A 50/50 split means 100% of Democrats have to be on board for literally anything, or they have to get Republicans to cross the line (which will never fucking happen). 50/50 (with Kamala Harris as the tie-breaking vote) means we don't have Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. That's not nothing, but you can't assume it means anything more than that because it very much does not. Especially with Manchin and Sinema being staunchly opposed to basically every aspect of the Democrats' agenda.

[Fugus]

Looking at recent (2 decades) American history, I'm not buying it. When bad shit happens Americans don't decides that enough is enough, they just settle on a new normal and wait for shit to get worse.

You also notice its all coming from a single party that is struggling more and more by the year to maintain control and have turned to full on fascism to hold control now as their support dies off and those left largely are turning away from them.

The main thing that has allowed them the power they have now is the Democrats trying to play nice and weak with kid gloves when it comes to them which is getting harder and harder for them to justify to their voters as well.

And I have looked at the last 20 years, but also look at the past 200 years and the progress that has been made. The current GOP has caused a lot of backsliding over the past 50 years but progress has still been made and will likely slingshot forward after they are the voting minority and the minority in the houses assuming they don't destroy us on their way out.

I have no illusions that the GOP is fucking us up as a nation for power and will do massive damage that will last well past the point I die of old age before it is all cleaned up, but progress will march on even if the world as a whole ends up having to leave us behind as a nation.

As far as this abortion crap goes, it won't work too well when the military, half the states, all the major businesses, the countries on our northern and southern boarder and a sizable (if not majority) population of the states attacking it all are against it. So their abortion stuff will largely be defeated while causing massive support against them and even if they tried to pass a federal ban on it it would be as enforceable as the anti-weed laws are becoming now.

These are people trying their best to hold onto power but short of them going full on Taliban killing the majority of the nation, they will lose in the long term with the main thing giving them power is the fact the majority refuse to vote which they are also giving them more of a reason to participate against them with this as well.

[Gorsameth]

You also notice its all coming from a single party that is struggling more and more by the year to maintain control and have turned to full on fascism to hold control now as their support dies off and those left largely are turning away from them.

The main thing that has allowed them the power they have now is the Democrats trying to play nice and weak with kid gloves when it comes to them which is getting harder and harder for them to justify to their voters as well.

And I have looked at the last 20 years, but also look at the past 200 years and the progress that has been made. The current GOP has caused a lot of backsliding over the past 50 years but progress has still been made and will likely slingshot forward after they are the voting minority and the minority in the houses assuming they don't destroy us on their way out.

I have no illusions that the GOP is fucking us up as a nation for power and will do massive damage that will last well past the point I die of old age before it is all cleaned up, but progress will march on even if the world as a whole ends up having to leave us behind as a nation.

As far as this abortion crap goes, it won't work too well when the military, half the states, all the major businesses, the countries on our northern and southern boarder and a sizable (if not majority) population of the states attacking it all are against it. So their abortion stuff will largely be defeated while causing massive support against them and even if they tried to pass a federal ban on it it would be as enforceable as the anti-weed laws are becoming now.

These are people trying their best to hold onto power but short of them going full on Taliban killing the majority of the nation, they will lose in the long term with the main thing giving them power is the fact the majority refuse to vote which they are also giving them more of a reason to participate against them with this as well.

I'm sure the steady progress since the dark ages is great comfort to those who suffer from the GOP today and will keep suffering as you say 'past the point you die of old age'.

'It won't happen'. It just did. Abortions are, or will soon be in some fashion, illegal in 16 states.
No, this likely won't immediately effect you if your living in NY for example but this is just the beginning.

First they came for the abortions, and I did not speak out because it didn't effect me.
...
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

[Fugus]

I'm sure the steady progress since the dark ages is great comfort to those who suffer from the GOP today and will keep suffering as you say 'past the point you die of old age'.

'It won't happen'. It just did. Abortions are, or will soon be in some fashion, illegal in 16 states.
No, this likely won't immediately effect you if your living in NY for example but this is just the beginning.

First they came for the abortions, and I did not speak out because it didn't effect me.
...
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

And when I finally die, the nation will still be BETTER off than when I got here and even if you were born 10 years ago, it will still likely be better when you die of old age than when you came into it.

And abortion is illegal in 16 states which will still be ignored by the majority of those trying to get one within those states.

You are right that this is just the beginning, but it won't end like they expect it to when the majority is against them and growing.

First the came for the abortion and while they stripped the laws protecting it, the FAILED to ban it with the majority against it.

You are mistaken, it isn't that I am not speaking out, I very much will and bring it to the attention of those around me, its that see this as a short lived victory that will cost them more than it gains them. They didn't ban abortion, they stripped away protections with the majority of the nation still supporting it without those protections and won't ban it.

[jonnysensible]

And when I finally die, the nation will still be BETTER off than when I got here and even if you were born 10 years ago, it will still likely be better when you die of old age than when you came into it.

ut oh you are going to summon pc2

[Fugus]

ut oh you are going to summon pc2

lol, I have largely skipped over anything that shockjock ever posts typically.

But, I see this as a massive step back and will take a lot of work to clean up, but it will be cleaned up one way or another and will likely speed up the nation turning its back on the GOP in the process and creating an even bigger push to stack them or actually push look into their histories.

As I have said before, we can quite literally remove Kavanaugh right now if we wanted to legally as he committed perjury which is 5 years in prison and he is still under the statute of limitations, we just don't.

One of the issues is the current stock of Democrats in office don't really support the stuff they claim, they just pay lip service to them for votes. I keep bringing up gay marriage as an example of it, the Democrats only ever came out in favor of it after the Supreme Court took the issue out of their hands, before that, they didn't do much of anything with this current Supreme Court ensuring that they don't have to give in to stuff like that again short of a major push from voters where they know its getting done or they are going to be done.

But as the current generation of politicians and voters die off and the younger ones get in, this will be a short lived change. If the those 50 and younger would just vote more, this wouldn't be an issue now.

[jonnysensible]

ur nasty gov cutting free school meals for poor kids as well? We can send Rashford over hes doing fuck all at the moment