1. #83561
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Two additions.

    One, he didn't need to admit them. We have proof of both. Daniels and Cohen were very clear as witnesses, and the FBI left with boxes and boxes of stuff. Trump's admission isn't doing him any favors, of course. Hell, throw in Georgia too.

    Two, Trump's defense is the same entitled narcistic white-privilege bullshit: I did it, but it wasn't a crime because I did it.

    Paying hush money? Not a crime, because Trump said so.
    Taking classified intel? Not a crime, because Trump said so.
    Threatening Georgia elected officials? Not a crime, because Trump said so.
    Instigating a murderous insurrection? Not a crime, because Trump said so.

    Trump hasn't declared he's innocent. He's declared that he did everything, but doesn't care that it was wrong. That's bordering on an insanity defense. All his cries of "they had to twist these laws so that I broke them" are his shattered, broken mind unable to grasp that rules actually do apply to him. He's just always been in a position of power that made him immune to consequences...often at the expense of other people's careers and lives.

    Hopefully, the jury pool is filled with people who see that. That someone is asking for immunity to consequences which would be slapped down hard and unavoidable for any of them. What happens to a small business owner who doesn't pay their employees? What happens to any normal person who has their adultery broadcast to the city, the state, the country?

    "I did it, but it wasn't a crime" is a perfectly valid defense in some cases, not denying that. Self-defense is the primo example. But what happens when someone uses it over and over for so many unrelated actions? Are they the victim of the world's cruelest set of coincidences? Or are they just a criminal for breaking all those laws?
    Funny thing is if it was just paying Daniels to not talk about his affair with her so that his wife didn't find out, that is actually not a crime. As long as it came out of his own pockets. Him taking money from his business then falsifying said records is when it became illegal.

    Most NDAs are predicated on that fact that you will receive something of value and you cannot talk about the thing you saw.

  2. #83562
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Funny thing is if it was just paying Daniels to not talk about his affair with her so that his wife didn't find out
    I disagree with the bolded.

    Melania knew what she was getting into, and Trump's third prenup almost certainly did not have any penalty for Trump if Trump cheated on her. I'm also fairly sure Melania already either "knew", or knew. The affair took place in 2006 and was publicly known.

    Daniels knew what gold she had in Trump's 2016 run and 100% blackmailed him, or she would have cost him 70,000 votes and the election. Trump knew that. That's why what he did was a crime.

  3. #83563
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I disagree with the bolded.

    Melania knew what she was getting into, and Trump's third prenup almost certainly did not have any penalty for Trump if Trump cheated on her. I'm also fairly sure Melania already either "knew", or knew. The affair took place in 2006 and was publicly known.

    Daniels knew what gold she had in Trump's 2016 run and 100% blackmailed him, or she would have cost him 70,000 votes and the election. Trump knew that. That's why what he did was a crime.
    Paying Daniels still wasn't a crime. He would be perfectly in the clear if he didn't falsify records to hide the payment.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  4. #83564
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I disagree with the bolded.

    Melania knew what she was getting into, and Trump's third prenup almost certainly did not have any penalty for Trump if Trump cheated on her. I'm also fairly sure Melania already either "knew", or knew. The affair took place in 2006 and was publicly known.

    Daniels knew what gold she had in Trump's 2016 run and 100% blackmailed him, or she would have cost him 70,000 votes and the election. Trump knew that. That's why what he did was a crime.
    The crime wasn't the payment itself. It was the falsifying of business records. It isn't illegal for anyone, at least in the US, to pay someone else to keep quiet about a seedy act. As long as it comes out of their own pocket.

    Granted, there could be other things that deal with the payment as far as election related but when it comes to paying her, no, it isn't a crime.

  5. #83565
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Paying Daniels still wasn't a crime.
    I mean, Bragg's case revolves around "yes it was". Falsifying documents is a felony it it's done to hide a crime, but a misdemeanor otherwise. Bragg's case revolves around Trump paying her off to help his campaign, a crime, and falsifying business records to hide it, therefore a felony.

    Daniels came forward in 2016, and not, say, 2011 or 2013, for a reason. Trump paid her off for that very same reason.

    Now, you might be trying to say "Bragg didn't charge Trump for the payoff" and you're correct. Pretty sure. But that's not necessary, and could be counterproductive. Imagine if the jurors are asked to decide first if the payoff was a crime. They could decide the answer is "no" and that rules out the falsifying documents felony charge. If they are not given that authority, they can't handwave the falsification.

    It is this discussion that have some experts saying Bragg's case is weak, but as others have said, Bragg wouldn't kick down the doors of Trump Tower with anything other than ironclad proof of guilt. Daniels. Cohen. That Pecker from the National Enquirer. Maybe Weaselberg?

    The case requires that paying Daniels be a crime, namely an undisclosed campaign contribution, which the context of the situation definitely fits. Otherwise, Trump might as well have been given 34 parking tickets.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    As long as it comes out of their own pocket.
    Well, you still can't make an illegal campaign contribution out of your own pocket. But yes, if Trump hadn't cheaped out like he does with everything else, the crimes he was charged with yesterday would not have been charged. At best, other crimes, likely involving tax fraud. At worst, no crimes from this case.

  6. #83566
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...york-rcna78301

    So I guess "DEFUND THE POLICE" is now a Republican platform position? Or at least "DEFUND THE FEDERAL POLICE" is.

    Y'all, this is a weird as shit reality.

  7. #83567
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...york-rcna78301

    So I guess "DEFUND THE POLICE" is now a Republican platform position? Or at least "DEFUND THE FEDERAL POLICE" is.

    Y'all, this is a weird as shit reality.
    Its typical. They're all for things when they screw over people they don't like, but when these things effect them or what they care about, suddenly its a deep rooted issue that needs to be torn out.

    Its just become especially obvious now that they're latched onto so many criminals and losing battles.

  8. #83568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...york-rcna78301

    So I guess "DEFUND THE POLICE" is now a Republican platform position? Or at least "DEFUND THE FEDERAL POLICE" is.

    Y'all, this is a weird as shit reality.
    Even if they kill 100% of the FBI and DOJ's budget AND prevent them from spending any money they currently have, that still does nothing about the NY and GA state investigations. This is truly the dumbest fucking timeline.

  9. #83569
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    So I guess "DEFUND THE POLICE" is now a Republican platform position? Or at least "DEFUND THE FEDERAL POLICE" is.
    "We're going to defend the FBI! Then, we're going to investigate Hunter Biden!"
    "How?"
    "Uh..."

  10. #83570
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    "We're going to defend the FBI! Then, we're going to investigate Hunter Biden!"
    "How?"
    "Uh..."
    In the House! Where they actually can't compel anyone to testify, especially without asking the DoJ, which they want to defund, to use their lawful authority to try to compel someone (IIRC).

    So basically..."DO SOMETHING!!!"

  11. #83571
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    which they want to defund
    I just want to add, Trump is still the head of the Republican Party. He's in the 2020 RNC platform, he's the leading candidate running right now, and he has the most support.

    Any Republicans who disagree with "Republicans want to defund the police" is free to speak up, but unless they do, their political opinion shall be logically inferred by the party they're in.

    Sorry. I don't make the rules. Y'all let Trump make the rules, and I'm just seeing to it they're enforced. Any Trump supporter who does not say otherwise, even those who previously criticized "defund the police", is now saying they want to defund the police by their silence until broken.

    "Surely they mean the police should be defunded because of their improper actions. You know, like a fine."

    Hmm. How did the whole "defund the police" issue start the first time?

    "Democrats were upset about police acting improperly and wanted to penalize them. You know, like a fine."

    And the circle becomes complete. I am 100% in favor of police found to act illegally or corruptly facing consequences for that. Cutting the FBI's budget for something NYPD did is just fucking stupid.

    Also, wasn't "defund the police" started when talking about police abusing their power by arresting or executing innocent nonwhite Americans? Trump is facing some white-collar crimes. Well, they were white until he put them on, now they're orange. But to denounce the same campaign for wanting to save innocent lives, but to embrace it for business fraud, shows everyone where Republican loyalties lie.

    Until they say otherwise.

    Any day now.

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaany day now.

  12. #83572
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I just want to add, Trump is still the head of the Republican Party. He's in the 2020 RNC platform, he's the leading candidate running right now, and he has the most support.

    Any Republicans who disagree with "Republicans want to defund the police" is free to speak up, but unless they do, their political opinion shall be logically inferred by the party they're in.

    Sorry. I don't make the rules. Y'all let Trump make the rules, and I'm just seeing to it they're enforced. Any Trump supporter who does not say otherwise, even those who previously criticized "defund the police", is now saying they want to defund the police by their silence until broken.

    "Surely they mean the police should be defunded because of their improper actions. You know, like a fine."

    Hmm. How did the whole "defund the police" issue start the first time?

    "Democrats were upset about police acting improperly and wanted to penalize them. You know, like a fine."

    And the circle becomes complete. I am 100% in favor of police found to act illegally or corruptly facing consequences for that. Cutting the FBI's budget for something NYPD did is just fucking stupid.

    Also, wasn't "defund the police" started when talking about police abusing their power by arresting or executing innocent nonwhite Americans? Trump is facing some white-collar crimes. Well, they were white until he put them on, now they're orange. But to denounce the same campaign for wanting to save innocent lives, but to embrace it for business fraud, shows everyone where Republican loyalties lie.

    Until they say otherwise.

    Any day now.

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaany day now.
    To be fair, people like MTG and the rest on the far right have been calling for the abolishment of the FBI and federal police departments for decades. Hell, Alex Jones used to make that a mainstay on InfoWars for years. They just now have the loudest person in the room asking for it.

  13. #83573
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    In my opinion it’s pretty much been established if you have money and/or popularity you can get away with anything.

    I think Trump in recent events is going to drag this NYC case out because the justice system will allow it.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  14. #83574
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    I think Trump in recent events is going to drag this NYC case out because the justice system will allow it.
    Because he's guilty.

    If he was innocent, he'd want this all over and done with as fast as possible.

  15. #83575
    Quote Originally Posted by Taifuu View Post
    Even if they kill 100% of the FBI and DOJ's budget AND prevent them from spending any money they currently have, that still does nothing about the NY and GA state investigations. This is truly the dumbest fucking timeline.
    No, but it would impact the big investigations into him stealing government records so classified they weren't allowed out of the buildings they were in and then after they were found and ordered returned how Trump is accused to going through them personally to attempt to keep the ones he wanted the most and the 2 billion or more his family has gotten from foreign nations since he left office who would also be highly interested in those documents which include some of our nuclear secrets and possibly our methods and sources for spying on other nations.

    Quite literally charges that could get one of us locked up for life or executed if we had done it or even gotten near those documents.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  16. #83576
    https://twitter.com/dieworkwear/stat...76383677317120

    Twitter user points out that Donald apparently showed up to court with some serious makeup staining on the collar of his suit jacked. Some great tips in the thread on how to avoid such an embarassment!

    Maybe Donald should be selling those mugshot T-shirts to raise money for dry cleaning or a new suit instead?

  17. #83577
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Because he's guilty.

    If he was innocent, he'd want this all over and done with as fast as possible.
    Yeah but this is what the justice system has become a bit. Don’t have to obey the law if you have a good enough excuse. Then even if found guilty we can’t dare punish people.

    Trump uses his influence and money on top of that. Do we’ll see what happens.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  18. #83578
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Because he's guilty.

    If he was innocent, he'd want this all over and done with as fast as possible.
    That's not always necessary. Some people would want to drag it out as a giant middle finger slash protest to the system if they were innocent. That's not the case here, but still, it does rarely happen.

  19. #83579
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Twitter user points out that Donald apparently showed up to court with some serious makeup staining on the collar of his suit jacked.
    Wait a minute...

    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Trump is facing some white-collar crimes. Well, they were white until he put them on, now they're orange.
    That was my joke line!

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Yeah but this is what the justice system has become a bit.
    Trump is hardly the first, but it would be nice to see a change in this situation. Bragg could, correctly, point out to the judge that his case really should be finished up before the election, claiming that Trump's schedule would get packed and he's stop attending court dates. And with the unspoken implications being "the voters need to know this guy is a felon, and also, he keeps claiming 'absolute immunity' and we don't want him to even have that option".

    I know everyone is saying "this could take years" but honestly, it has already taken years. This time, we need answers before the election.

    Or, and I think this is more likely, we need more charges before the election. Either because classic Republicans could do in 2024 what they did in 2020, stay home, or because the Republican Party would actually break and Trump would run third-party, when Trump's facing too big of an obstacle for anyone with reason and common sense to back. The rabid fanbase is too far gone, but what few moderates are left could tip the scales again, and "man on three or four different criminal trials at once" is not what most sensible people back.

  20. #83580
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    That was my joke line!
    Apologies, it's hard to keep up with the developments.

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