Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

Democrat politics hit every point on that list as well.

You can't condemn people you claim are on the right, when both parties say and do the exact same shit.

"YAH HUH, BECAUSE I SAY SO!" isn't any more of a compelling argument than, "34 felony indictments are actually misdemeanors." my guy.

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So communism is fascism now? Interesting.

They all proud capitalists, bro. Unless you think the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is actually democratic which would explain why you think the Chinese Communist Party is communist. Like, just because a party/country calls itself something doesn't mean it is that. We're hardly a very United States, for example.

Which i would say theyre pretty close in ideology, the only difference is one socializes based on class rather than national/racial identity. I know that isn't "true communism," but dictators gonna dictate.

Qualify that for us then, broskito. More than a vague sentence. Show us your argument is worth more than a giggle.

[Endus]

They all proud capitalists, bro. Unless you think the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is actually democratic which would explain why you think the Chinese Communist Party is communist. Like, just because a party/country calls itself something doesn't mean it is that. We're hardly a very United States, for example.

Just to make a point; "communism" as an ideology involves the elimination of social/economic classes. That's, like, central to the concept. That everything is communal and no one stands above anyone else.

Now go and look at any "communist" nation in history and see how well that was actually put into practice. Stalinism and those nations that sprang off from its model (so, basically all "communist" nations) began with Stalin's rejection of Marxist communist principles, in favor of a hierarchical system of authoritarian control by a central Party. There's some trappings of communism in and around that, but the central pillar is that authoritarian Party-centric system. But the "evils" of communism always tie into the brutality of that authoritarian regime, not the communist economic elements.

It would really help if people could grasp nuance and, particularly, the idea that sometimes bad people lie to you about what they're doing or want to achieve. See also every idiot who tries to argue that the Nazis were socialists. Because, y'know, they believe and trust the Nazis, for some fuckin' reason.

[fwc577]

So communism is fascism now? Interesting.

Which i would say theyre pretty close in ideology, the only difference is one socializes based on class rather than national/racial identity. I know that isn't "true communism," but dictators gonna dictate.

I decided to consult ChatGPT.

Is China Fascist or Communist?

It's important to note that fascism and communism are two distinct political ideologies, and China's political system is complex and cannot be accurately described as purely one or the other.

The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has been in power in China since 1949 and officially identifies as Marxist-Leninist, which is a form of communism. However, over time, China has developed a unique blend of socialism, nationalism, and authoritarianism, which differs significantly from classical Marxist communism.

China's economic system, for example, is a mix of state-owned enterprises, private companies, and foreign investment, which some experts describe as "state capitalism." While the CCP still officially espouses communist ideology, the Chinese government has increasingly allowed market forces to shape the economy.

In terms of political ideology, the Chinese government is highly authoritarian and does not permit opposition parties or free speech. This approach to governance shares some similarities with fascist regimes, which prioritize the authority of the state over individual freedoms.

Overall, it would be oversimplifying China's political system to label it as purely fascist or communist. The CCP's approach to governance is a unique blend of socialism, nationalism, and authoritarianism that has evolved over time.

Is Belarus Fascist or Communist?

Belarus is officially a presidential republic with a semi-presidential system, where the President is both the head of state and the head of government. While Belarus was previously a part of the Soviet Union and retains some elements of communist ideology, it cannot be accurately described as a communist country today.

Belarus' political system is highly authoritarian and often described as a dictatorship, with the President having significant control over the government, the economy, and the media. The country's political opposition faces significant repression, and there is little room for independent media or civil society.

In terms of ideology, the Belarusian government officially identifies as socialist and claims to prioritize the welfare of the working class. However, in practice, the country's economic policies have largely shifted towards a mixed-market system, with some state control of the economy but also allowing private enterprise.

It would not be accurate to describe Belarus as a fascist country either, as the government does not typically espouse fascist ideology. However, there are some authoritarian tendencies in Belarus' government that share some similarities with fascist regimes, such as suppression of opposition voices and control over the media. Overall, it would be more accurate to describe Belarus as an authoritarian state with some elements of socialism, rather than strictly fascist or communist.

Is North Korea Fascist or Communist?

North Korea is officially known as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) and identifies as a socialist state with a self-reliant, closed economy. However, the country's political system is highly authoritarian, and the ruling Workers' Party of Korea (WPK) maintains tight control over all aspects of society, including the media, education, and the economy.

While North Korea was initially influenced by communist ideology and the Soviet Union, it has developed its own unique ideology, known as Juche, which emphasizes self-reliance, nationalism, and authoritarianism. The country's founder, Kim Il-sung, is still revered as a god-like figure, and the current leader, Kim Jong-un, holds absolute power over the government and military.

In terms of economic policy, North Korea operates a state-planned economy, where the government owns and controls all major industries. However, there are some limited opportunities for private enterprise and foreign investment in the country's special economic zones.

Overall, it would not be accurate to describe North Korea as either purely fascist or purely communist. The country's political ideology and economic system are a unique blend of socialism, nationalism, and authoritarianism, with significant emphasis placed on the cult of personality surrounding the ruling family.

Is Russia Fascist or Communist?

Russia has a complex political and economic system that cannot be accurately described as purely fascist or communist. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, Russia has undergone significant political and economic transformations, moving away from communism towards a mixed-market economy and a more authoritarian political system.

Russia's current political system is a presidential republic, with the President serving as both the head of state and the head of government. While the country maintains some elements of socialism, including state ownership of certain industries, the government has increasingly allowed market forces to shape the economy.

In terms of political ideology, the ruling United Russia party is officially a center-right party that espouses conservative values and supports state control over the economy. However, the government under President Vladimir Putin has been criticized for its increasing authoritarianism, including suppression of opposition voices, crackdowns on civil society, and limitations on freedom of the press.

While some aspects of Russia's current political system share some similarities with fascism, such as the concentration of power in the hands of a single leader and the use of propaganda to control the population, it is important to note that fascism is a distinct political ideology with its own set of characteristics. Russia's political system is best described as a hybrid regime, with authoritarian tendencies and some elements of socialism, rather than purely fascist or communist.

[fwc577]

So, Taifuu is wrong. Thanks.

Bro, if that's all you got out of it, your confirmation bias has robbed you of all ability to critically think and discuss rationally.

[Edge-]

I decided to consult ChatGPT.

https://mashable.com/article/chatgpt-amazing-wrong

Bad, terrible, no-good, awful idea. Don't do that. Ever. It's a curiosity at best.

[Edge-]

Provided the legal definitions between the two. And there is no additional crime that would make them felony counts.

You did, and they proved my point. You were looking at a different criminal statute.

So, theyre capitalists? But not communist or fascist? So the guy mentioning them as fascist is wrong?

Yes, they're capitalists. Capitalists can be fascist. Fascism is disconnected from the economic system. It's not our fault you don't understand the difference between ideologies, forms of government, and economic systems.

What needs to be qualified, exactly? The only difference between Soviet communism, sino communism and Nazism, was the former two killed people based on class and the latter on race. Coincidentally for soviets and Nazis, those groups overlapped quite a bit.

The ONLY difference? That's quite the claim! Surely you've got extensive resources to support this bold claim, no?

[Veggie50]

I decided to consult ChatGPT.

Is China Fascist or Communist?



Is Belarus Fascist or Communist?



Is North Korea Fascist or Communist?



Is Russia Fascist or Communist?

Gotta love that ai…

[Edge-]

Because if they can't prove that the documents were altered to conceal a crime, they aren't felonies. In fact unless they can prove without a doubt another crime was committed, that's an acquittal

That's already established. I'm not going to toy with you pretending reality doesn't exist or thinking that impeachment = indictment. You're wrong, and that's the end of it.

Well, fascists don't believe in private property, though. So....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism

Fascists aimed to promote what they considered the national interests of their countries; they supported the right to own private property and the profit motive because they believed that they were beneficial to the economic development of a nation,[11] but they commonly sought to eliminate the autonomy of large-scale capitalism from the state.

This is trivially untrue, especially at the state we're at now.

They are both awful systems, but they otherwise did the same things.

Is that the ONLY difference as you claim? Clearly you have citations and evidence to support this claim, no?

[Edge-]

You're right, they spoke different languages, too.

I mean, if you wonder why literally nobody takes you remotely seriously here, this is exactly why. It's a trivially obvious lie and bit of bullshit that nobody other than yourself is going to buy.

Kangaroo court gonna kangaroo.

Orange man bad, and I regret to inform you that your president has been the first former president in US history to be criminally indicted.

And there multiple other, more serious criminal investigations into him and his conduct ongoing. I really hope you haven't tied your ego and emotional health to his status, because you're going to be in for a rough time.

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https://www.axios.com/2023/04/07/tru...-losing-streak

Axios with a good roundup of just how tired of winning Trump and Republicans have been recently -

Why it matters: The GOP's political trouble has been unfolding slowly but unmistakably, starting even before Trump's loss to Joe Biden in 2020.

First, the 2018 House elections were a disaster for Republicans: Democrats had a net gain of 40 seats to take over the House — their largest gain since the post-Watergate election of 1974.

Then Trump lost the presidency.

Next, Republicans blew two runoff elections in Georgia and lost control of the U.S. Senate. The runoffs took place a day before Trump backers stormed the Capitol.

Then, Republicans won the legal fight over abortion as Trump-appointed justices helped to ensure the reversal of Roe v. Wade. But the GOP lost a series of political battles over it afterward — a reflection of polls indicating that most Americans support abortion rights. GOP-led state legislatures have shown no signs of slowing their push to enact stricter abortion bans, suggesting continuing political backlash.

Republicans put high-profile election deniers on the 2022 midterm ballot in key state and federal races — only to see several lose winnable elections.

Republicans blew a chance to control the Senate by nominating too many hard-to-elect-in-a-swing-state Trump facsimiles. Their hopes of a big House majority were erased for the same reason, creating constant headaches for new Speaker Kevin McCarthy.

Just this week, progressive Democrats triumphed in two of this year's most consequential elections. Brandon Johnson, a teachers' union organizer, was elected Chicago mayor. In swing state Wisconsin, Democrat-backed Janet Protasiewicz flipped the state Supreme Court to liberals in a landslide, after leaning into her support for abortion rights.

Senate Republicans have been gifted a historically favorable 2024 map — but hard-right candidates who appeal to the GOP base again threaten to inject uncertainty into at least five winnable races.

Trump is driving an agenda dominated by vengeance and victimhood, diverting Republicans from the inflation- and crime-centered messages that helped them in the midterms.

Reality check: Trump, if anything, is stronger and more likely to win the GOP nomination than he was after the November midterms.

Just racking up Trump-related L's. But wait, there's more!

By the numbers: For all his growing popularity among Republicans, Trump remains wildly unpopular nationally.

Polls show Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis — who trails Trump by an average of 26 points among Republicans — would fare far better than Trump in a matchup against President Biden.

Biden's approval rating has hovered around 42%, a dismal figure — but still better than Trump's.

The bottom line: Put polls aside. How likely does it seem that Trump will do better with persuadable voters than his 2020 loss when you toss Jan. 6, a 34-count Manhattan indictment and possible federal indictments into the mix?

[gondrin]

I mean, if you wonder why literally nobody takes you remotely seriously here, this is exactly why. It's a trivially obvious lie and bit of bullshit that nobody other than yourself is going to buy.



Orange man bad, and I regret to inform you that your president has been the first former president in US history to be criminally indicted.

And there multiple other, more serious criminal investigations into him and his conduct ongoing. I really hope you haven't tied your ego and emotional health to his status, because you're going to be in for a rough time.

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https://www.axios.com/2023/04/07/tru...-losing-streak

Axios with a good roundup of just how tired of winning Trump and Republicans have been recently -



Just racking up Trump-related L's. But wait, there's more!

So, for the record, if the GoP wouldn't have put up the crazy clown car of insane election deniers and culture club warriors and instead just put up the standard fare corporate loving Republicans, they would have had a landslide for the most part.

Sounds about right.

[Taifuu]

Provided the legal definitions between the two. And there is no additional crime that would make them felony counts.



So, theyre capitalists? But not communist or fascist? So the guy mentioning them as fascist is wrong?



What needs to be qualified, exactly? The only difference between Soviet communism, sino communism and Nazism, was the former two killed people based on class and the latter on race. Coincidentally for soviets and Nazis, those groups overlapped quite a bit.

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So, Taifuu is wrong. Thanks.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

fascism
noun
fas·​cism ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-
Synonyms of fascism
1
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2
: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
early instances of army fascism and brutality

That's literally the dictionary definition of the term and every country I listed checks those boxes.

[DarkTZeratul]

Says the person posting wekly about the man for almost 7 years.

Says the person who for some reason decided the best use of their time was to bitch and moan daily about what other people are talking about? You know you're perfectly capable of just... Not participating, right? You can find some other thread that piques your interest.

[gondrin]

Says the person posting wekly about the man for almost 7 years.

Because said man has done outright dumb, hateful, bigoted or illegal things for those 7 years. And for all of those things, he has been doing them since the 80s. It is finally catching up to him because for a person who hates to have his personal life under a microscope or criticized, he took the worst job for that to be the case.

[Edge-]

Says the person posting wekly about the man for almost 7 years.

I'm doing well my guy, but thanks for your concern.

I just know a lot of folks are still driving around with 3-4 Trump flags on their trucks and I still see the unemployed Trump supporters on the overpass near me all the time.

[DarkTZeratul]

Damn, not my toilet time.

If you're going to the toilet this much, you should really see a doctor.

[Edge-]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/07/u...e=articleShare

Former President Donald J. Trump has told aides to hire Laura Loomer, a far-right and anti-Muslim activist with a history of expressing bigoted views, for a campaign role, according to four people familiar with the plans.

fuckin rrrroooollllffffffffffff holy shit



Reminder this is the woman that handcuffed herself to Twitter's front door trying to make a big spectacle of it and have herself be removed and...Twitter just gave zero fucks and left her there for as long as she wanted to hang out (which wasn't too long).

Only.

The.

Best.

People.

[D Luniz]

Says the person posting wekly about the man for almost 7 years.

just cause the quote is

If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell

doesn't mean you have to yell like hell

[Taifuu]

Says the person posting wekly about the man for almost 7 years.

The person that is head of one of the two major political parties in the US, is running for President again, and who constantly keeps popping up in the news for a variety of negative reasons? Yeah, crazy that he's still being discussed in a forum titled Politics.

[gondrin]

Dumb, yes. Hateful, no. Bigoted, no. Illegal, TBD.

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Dont hate me because im regular.

Trump is extremely bigoted. Took out a full-page ad calling for the death of 5 black teens who were innocent and when confronted about it, doubled down on his stance. He is also extremely hateful. Everything he says is about hating someone else other than himself or people that like him. Otherwise, he hates you. Not dislike you but actual hate you.

[Edge-]

The person that is head of one of the two major political parties in the US, is running for President again, and who constantly keeps popping up in the news for a variety of negative reasons? Yeah, crazy that he's still being discussed in a forum titled Politics.

No you see, he's really embarrassing and they'd really rather if everyone forgot about him because then they'd have to stop defending him.

We're already seeing Republicans try to memory-hole the Trump years elsewhere, as we all predicted. It's gonna be going on for the rest of our natural lives.