Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

it would be nothing but her filling the airtime with corrections.

That sounds like journalism. Shame we didn't get any.

They'll probably fact-check him later, but the damage is done. Oh well. Not like you didn't see it coming.

[Edge-]

So it's happening now? Just going by the CNN live feed of it... -

Still says he won 2020 election

Defends his Jan. 6 action and continues lying

Doesn't owe Pence an apology for instigating a mob that was trying to lynch him

Again promises to pardon a bunch of Jan. 6 insurrectionists

Continues to say he doesn't know who E. Jean Carroll is despite him having years to check in on the civil case he just lost

Doubling down on drilling for oil to deal with economic headwinds

Encourages US default if House Republicans don't get everything they want

Something about protecting the Second Amendment

So it seems to be going about as expected. CNN lobbing plenty of softballs and Trump being Trump. Whoever could have imagined something different.

Don't worry though, I'm sure the NYT Pitchbot will have an article about how brave and significant the lady interviewing is for wearing a white pantsuit.

[Breccia]

So it's happening now?

Well, if nothing else...and there is nothing else...the remaining three or four people who didn't know Trump was a lying deplorable barely sentient life form might have seen it.

Nobody here's going to get anything out of the recap.

[Logwyn]

I wonder if Bill Cosby will share a pudding pop with Trump now that they are in the same club as sex abusers?

[Breccia]

Well I've been--

Not a single word of this post is on-topic. This thread is about Trump, not your issue with a magical 51% threshhold that had no bearing in Trump's lost case.

[Edge-]

Oh, apparently his jokes about Carroll are getting laughs from the audience. Sounds like a friendly audience, rofl.

I'm giggling at this, but that I'm reading headlines about how the audience laughed at some joke about her speaks to the TMZification of political media. Though hey, at least this was a Rolling Stone headline, so while they absolutely do some great reporting it's not exactly the bastion of pure serious journalism.

[Endus]

Well I've been doing my new favorite thing, playing with ChatGPT, and I feel comfortable with what it says (even if it sometimes can be really flawed):

"In short, the preponderance of evidence standard requires the plaintiff to present evidence that is sufficient to convince the judge or jury that it is more likely than not that the defendant is responsible, not just evidence that suggests the odds are in their favor."

And ChatGPT isn't a valid source. Try looking up actual sources rather than playing with deeply flawed and entirely unreliable AI algorithms.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I guess it all comes down to something more mundane - I didn't think there was much concrete evidence, jury (and most of you) disagreed.

It isn't meant to be "concrete evidence".. that's for criminal trials. It just has to be the most likely explanation. They didn't "disagree" that there wasn't concrete evidence...it just isn't the standard of proof required.

And, let's be clear here, none of us know the full extent of the evidence presented. We weren't there. The Jury was.

Again, the deliberations were over in ~3 hours. This does not indicate that it was very difficult for the jury to come to a unanimous decision that:

a) There was not enough evidence to prove that Trump raped E. Jean Carroll
b) There was enough evidence to prove that he did sexually abuse her
c) There was clear and convincing evidence (which, again, is a higher standard of proof than preponderance) that he defamed her when he said she was a crazy liar that he never met(or whatever the actual statements were) for accusing him of sexually assaulting her.

[Breccia]

And, let's be clear here, none of us know the full extent of the evidence presented. We weren't there. The Jury was.

Well, we do know the evidence Trump provided.

None.

Well, none willingly. His deposition was added to Carroll's list of evidence, despite his protests.

There is nothing about this case to suggest it was a 50/50 split. Therefore, there is no reason to discuss a hypothetical 51% cutoff in this thread. Nobody reading this thread thought the case was close. Hypothetical 51% cutoffs in cases other than this one can form their own thread.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Well, we do know the evidence Trump provided.

None.

Well, none willingly. His deposition was added to Carroll's list of evidence, despite his protests.

There is nothing about this case to suggest it was a 50/50 split. Therefore, there is no reason to discuss a hypothetical 51% cutoff in this thread. Nobody reading this thread thought the case was close. Hypothetical 51% cutoffs in cases other than this one can form their own thread.

Yeah, and like I said, it was a 3 hour deliberation... that really means they didn't have to debate the evidence very much to arrive at their verdicts. Clearly not a borderline decision. Trump's attorney asked that the jurors be polled indivually, which confirmed that the verdict was unanimous. Even the Trump supporting, Tim Pool follower was convinced about the sexual abuse.

Also, his attorneys did the usual tact of attacking the victims for not coming forward sooner and for not fighting harder. Some statements Ive heard from people that were in the room were that that tact did not seem to win over the jury.

[Corvus]

So Trump refused to say he wants Ukraine to win the war, plus the usual blather about how he could stop it in 24 hours (ie by surrendering to pootie.)

Not going to watch it, but did he really say this? “His mistake was going in. He would never have gone in if I was president, we used to talk about it too.” Did he admit that he and pootie used to talk about pootie invading Ukraine and never told anyone about it at the time?

[Edge-]

Well, if any independent voters with short memories needed a reminder of who Trump is, they sure got one.

[Shadowferal]

I guess it all comes down to something more mundane - I didn't think there was much concrete evidence, jury (and most of you) disagreed.

There's a world of difference between the truth, and your ill-informed opinion.

[diller]

In reading about it, my problem is with the standard of evidence - 51% is too low in my opinion. Based on the 51% standard this verdict makes sense, but I think that's too low a standard.

It's not a criminal trial the burden of evidence is lower add to that that there was literally NO defense or witnesses brought by Trumps lawyer, the outcome was pretty much a given and probably by 100%.

[Paranoid Android]

All I will say is the force of Trump is effin scary.

Yes I'm about to do all politicians lie and for the most part get away with it. Trump just does so much lie after lie that unlike what the media favors as establishment politicians, they want to catch and own Trump in his. Basically over compensating. Yet Trump just attacks and in the end he wins.

Then as far as that crowd laughing along a sexual assault story and some others. They don't care what he does.

So it's obvious his cult is with him. Yet working with maybe 20% of the electoric is super thin.

[Poopymonster]

I wonder if Bill Cosby will share a pudding pop with Trump now that they are in the same club as sex abusers?

"Grab em by the Pudding"
Trump Cosby 2024.

[Surfd]

All I will say is the force of Trump is effin scary.

Yes I'm about to do all politicians lie and for the most part get away with it. Trump just does so much lie after lie that unlike what the media favors as establishment politicians, they want to catch and own Trump in his. Basically over compensating. Yet Trump just attacks and in the end he wins.

Then as far as that crowd laughing along a sexual assault story and some others. They don't care what he does.

The issue with Trump isn't that he's scary. He's not. He's a fucking clown who should have had his shit stomped into oblivion decades ago.

The issue is that the "law" is too afraid of what his shitgoblin base would do if they were to do anything more than slap his wrist in regards to basically any transgression he might make, and the toothless response from the people who should be nailing his balls to the wall just makes him bolder every time they let him slip away from meaningful consequences.

This whole thing could have been solved years ago if your legal system wasn't basically filled with toothless cowards too afraid to hold him accountable for all the shit he has done and properly punish him for it. If any normal citizen had done 1/10th of what he has, that person would be a smoking stain on the floor. Trump instigates treason, sucks up to national enemies, and waltzes out of the whitehouse with boxes full of classified doccuments and barely gets a stern talking to. He's literally thumbing his nose at your law and spitting in your faces and you guys are just standing there taking it like simps.

[s_bushido]

The issue with Trump isn't that he's scary. He's not. He's a fucking clown who should have had his shit stomped into oblivion decades ago.

The issue is that the "law" is too afraid of what his shitgoblin base would do if they were to do anything more than slap his wrist in regards to basically any transgression he might make, and the toothless response from the people who should be nailing his balls to the wall just makes him bolder every time they let him slip away from meaningful consequences.

This whole thing could have been solved years ago if your legal system wasn't basically filled with toothless cowards too afraid to hold him accountable for all the shit he has done and properly punish him for it. If any normal citizen had done 1/10th of what he has, that person would be a smoking stain on the floor. Trump instigates treason, sucks up to national enemies, and waltzes out of the whitehouse with boxes full of classified doccuments and barely gets a stern talking to. He's literally thumbing his nose at your law and spitting in your faces and you guys are just standing there taking it like simps.

It has nothing to do with any reaction by his base. And the only cowardice involved is that they know they can't get a result in going after someone like this, so they don't bother. The only reason Trump is seeing any sort of consequences now is because he's basically run out of competent lawyers to hire to bog down the system (the actual reason people like him never get more than a slap on the wrist in our system, while "normal citizens" would never see the sun as free people ever again).

[Surfd]

It has nothing to do with any reaction by his base.

Nah, there is still a fairly heavy element of them being scared of what the GOP and Right Wing component of the country would do if Trump was handled as he should be. I mean, once upon a time, your government actually still had a spine, as well as at least a moderate amount of integrity. Nixon resigned in disgrace because the legal apparatus at the time would have thrown the book at him if he hadn't. But modern USA? You guys are straight fucked. Far too much of your legal system is corrupted by blatantly partisan trash who are actively colluding with the Right wing elements hell bent on ruining your country, and the few elements who remain who aren't are too ineffectual to do much more than piss on the fire slowly roasting them. The DOJ should have had Trump and half his administration nailed to the wall by their balls years ago, but they are too paralyzed by the thought that if they actually did throw the book at him they just might give the GOP an excuse to try to start a second civil war because someone finally had the balls to hold them accountable for their shit.

It's like watching a football game where the home team is blatantly cheating their asses off and playing dirty and the Reffs are too cowardly to do much more than throw token flags for fear that the fan will storm the field if they get called on their shit.

[ringpriest]

It has nothing to do with any reaction by his base. And the only cowardice involved is that they know they can't get a result in going after someone like this, so they don't bother. The only reason Trump is seeing any sort of consequences now is because he's basically run out of competent lawyers to hire to bog down the system (the actual reason people like him never get more than a slap on the wrist in our system, while "normal citizens" would never see the sun as free people ever again).

This. It's not that the American justice system cannot deal with Trump specifically, it's that the American legal system has evolved to let Ultra-high-net-worth assholes with the proper connections evade serious consequences for their actions. The failure to hold Trump to account in court is that part of the system working as intended. The larger problem is that he's threatening the stability of the whole edifice (which wasn't particularly stable to begin with, thanks you decades of misgovernment).

Part of his appeal to his supporters is that he threatens the status quo. But his supporters either don't understand or don't care that Trump isn't offering some broad, New Deal style reform - he's "offering" to turn the United States into something like Putin's Russia. And while the current American establishment has a great many flaws, it's better than Putin's government by quite a bit.