1. #84161
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    It has nothing to do with any reaction by his base. And the only cowardice involved is that they know they can't get a result in going after someone like this, so they don't bother. The only reason Trump is seeing any sort of consequences now is because he's basically run out of competent lawyers to hire to bog down the system (the actual reason people like him never get more than a slap on the wrist in our system, while "normal citizens" would never see the sun as free people ever again).
    This. It's not that the American justice system cannot deal with Trump specifically, it's that the American legal system has evolved to let Ultra-high-net-worth assholes with the proper connections evade serious consequences for their actions. The failure to hold Trump to account in court is that part of the system working as intended. The larger problem is that he's threatening the stability of the whole edifice (which wasn't particularly stable to begin with, thanks you decades of misgovernment).

    Part of his appeal to his supporters is that he threatens the status quo. But his supporters either don't understand or don't care that Trump isn't offering some broad, New Deal style reform - he's "offering" to turn the United States into something like Putin's Russia. And while the current American establishment has a great many flaws, it's better than Putin's government by quite a bit.
    "For the present this country is headed in directions which can only carry ruin to it and will create a situation here dangerous to world peace. With few exceptions, the men who are running this Government are of a mentality that you and I cannot understand. Some of them are psychopathic cases and would ordinarily be receiving treatment somewhere. Others are exalted and in a frame of mind that knows no reason."
    - U.S. Ambassador to Germany, George Messersmith, June 1933

  2. #84162
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    This. It's not that the American justice system cannot deal with Trump specifically, it's that the American legal system has evolved to let Ultra-high-net-worth assholes with the proper connections evade serious consequences for their actions. The failure to hold Trump to account in court is that part of the system working as intended. The larger problem is that he's threatening the stability of the whole edifice (which wasn't particularly stable to begin with, thanks you decades of misgovernment).

    Part of his appeal to his supporters is that he threatens the status quo. But his supporters either don't understand or don't care that Trump isn't offering some broad, New Deal style reform - he's "offering" to turn the United States into something like Putin's Russia. And while the current American establishment has a great many flaws, it's better than Putin's government by quite a bit.
    The biggest issue with his base is that they also think they will be the "in crowd" in that reality when in fact, unless you are rich, they will still be the same as they are now. People who are going to be left behind and will be in a worse situation as to Trump, all they are is resources to be extracted. The moment you don't have anything for him or nothing of value for him, out you go.

  3. #84163
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    This. It's not that the American justice system cannot deal with Trump specifically, it's that the American legal system has evolved to let Ultra-high-net-worth assholes with the proper connections evade serious consequences for their actions.
    I'd clarify that they don't evade; they postpone indefinitely.

  4. #84164
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    This. It's not that the American justice system cannot deal with Trump specifically, it's that the American legal system has evolved to let Ultra-high-net-worth assholes with the proper connections evade serious consequences for their actions. The failure to hold Trump to account in court is that part of the system working as intended. The larger problem is that he's threatening the stability of the whole edifice (which wasn't particularly stable to begin with, thanks you decades of misgovernment).

    Part of his appeal to his supporters is that he threatens the status quo. But his supporters either don't understand or don't care that Trump isn't offering some broad, New Deal style reform - he's "offering" to turn the United States into something like Putin's Russia. And while the current American establishment has a great many flaws, it's better than Putin's government by quite a bit.
    Agreed. Lack of accountability for those with the means to buy it is inherent in the system. Trump is just a more public and outspoken beneficiary than most.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  5. #84165
    Watched a few more clips and Trump is going to kill Biden.

    On Russia-Ukraine he did a great job of once more going to how Europe pays less than us. Always transactional with this guy. Yet, this is going to get most Americans on his side. People look at it as a war in another country and we are flipping the bill. This is a win. Military Aid even this complex of us saving the world does not work for most Americans.
    "Buh dah DEMS"

  6. #84166
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    Watched a few more clips and Trump is going to kill Biden.

    On Russia-Ukraine he did a great job of once more going to how Europe pays less than us. Always transactional with this guy. Yet, this is going to get most Americans on his side. People look at it as a war in another country and we are flipping the bill. This is a win. Military Aid even this complex of us saving the world does not work for most Americans.
    The US’ support for Ukraine is very high across the political spectrum. Trump bandying on about “military expenditure” will get him nowhere, especially when all Biden has to do is point out the civilian mass graves, rape, and wholesale debauchery perpetrated by Russia and how we’re fighting it… effectively, mind you… with zero American boots on the ground.

    Russia has been an enemy in the American zeitgeist for going on 70 years now. One orange baboon trying to clear a Russian paycheck isn’t going to change that, especially as Russia is being actively horrible.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #84167
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    ...we’re fighting it with zero American boots on the ground.
    Not zero, unless you're defining ground strictly as initiating combat missions.

  8. #84168
    Yes, zero. They're protecting the US Embassy, which is technically US soil. They are not "in" Ukraine, they are in US territory within Ukraine. Which that article makes pretty clear.

  9. #84169
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yes, zero. They're protecting the US Embassy, which is technically US soil. They are not "in" Ukraine, they are in US territory within Ukraine. Which that article makes pretty clear.
    They've also always been there, long before Russia's invasion, and are in no way providing support to Ukraine.

  10. #84170
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yes, zero. They're protecting the US Embassy, which is technically US soil. They are not "in" Ukraine, they are in US territory within Ukraine. Which that article makes pretty clear.
    Unlikely given their role in deployment of materiel. Pretty hard to do if they're strictly constrained to the embassy. Of course, no one's going to confirm that one way or the other for opsec reasons.

  11. #84171
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    They've also always been there, long before Russia's invasion, and are in no way providing support to Ukraine.
    Per the article, it's unlikely special forces were there prior to the start of the war. But their presence there given the war is not unusual.

  12. #84172
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    What's the dumbest thing you can do after being found in court to have defamed someone? Defame them again.

    After Defamation Finding, Trump Again Says Carroll Lied
    UPDATE: Carroll heard. She's considering suing.

    E. Jean Carroll is weighing whether to file a new defamation lawsuit against former President Donald J. Trump in the wake of his diatribe against her during a CNN town hall Wednesday night, when he said her claim of a decades-old sexual assault was “fake” and a “made-up story,” her lawyer said on Thursday.

    Mr. Trump’s comments on CNN came one day after a federal jury in Manhattan awarded Ms. Carroll $5 million in damages after finding Mr. Trump liable for sexually abusing her in the mid-1990s and liable for defaming her last year when he described her claim of assault as a “complete con job,” a “Hoax and a lie” in a social media post.

    Ms. Carroll said on Thursday morning that she had been asleep as Mr. Trump talked about her on the town hall program. She said that her lawyer, Roberta A. Kaplan, had sent her the transcript of his comments, and that she had read only the first paragraph.

    “It’s just stupid, it’s just disgusting, vile, foul, it wounds people,” Ms. Carroll said in an interview with The New York Times, adding that she had been “insulted by better people.”

    On Thursday, Ms. Kaplan said no decision had been made on whether a new defamation suit would be filed in light of Mr. Trump’s latest comments.

    “Everything’s on the table, obviously, and we have to give serious consideration to it,” Ms. Kaplan said. “We have to weigh the various pros and cons and we’ll come to a decision in the next day or so, probably.”
    Yeah, as pointed out already, Trump willingly discussed the story of how he was found liable in court and somehow the sexual assault the jury decided within hours he'd committed...was somehow funny.

    Then, Trump blamed the victim.

    What kind of a woman meets somebody and brings them up and within minutes you’re playing hanky-panky in a dressing room?
    The answer is "the kind you raped".

    Speaking of Trump raping people, I can't help but notice @tehdang hasn't responded yet. Well, this is a fast-moving thread, and as he's a Trump supporter, comments that Trump said that make an audience of Trump-supporting members laugh is something he would view positively. This is exactly what the "mention" ability is for. So I think it's fair to bring him in. Hey tehdang, what do you think of Trump making jokes about the sexual assault he's been found liable of committing? No, "you have me on ignore" is not an acceptable answer, this was a high-profile situation, surely you've seen it and, as a Trump supporter, your opinion on the subject is called for.

  13. #84173
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    UPDATE: Carroll heard. She's considering suing.
    I feel like there's at least an implied "don't fuckin' say it again" clause to being found liable for defamation. And that if you ignore said implicit clause, we shouldn't just be considering allowing a further lawsuit, we should be considering massive direct fines by the courts for noncompliance and/or contempt of court.

    Let's say to the tune of "the same judgement again, every time you say it", so $5m more every time he says a thing that defames Carroll. Like, every time; if he makes 5 separate defamatory statements in one rambling paragraph, that's $25m.

    And we're not talking additional charges/court time, we're just talking the court issues a bill or seizes property. So no complaints about taking up the court's time; they're more than compensating themselves for taking that time.

    Like, if I called someone here a "shithead", and got myself banned, and came back from that ban and my first post "hey, remember that guy I called a shithead? He's still a shithead.", I'd get super banned again, and I'd deserve it.


  14. #84174
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I feel like there's at least an implied "don't fuckin' say it again" clause to being found liable for defamation.
    I think the term is "punative damages".

  15. #84175
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I think the term is "punative damages".
    I keep hoping for the day Trump's "mouth writes a check his ass can't cash" but after almost a decade I don't see that happening.

  16. #84176
    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    I keep hoping for the day Trump's "mouth writes a check his ass can't cash" but after almost a decade I don't see that happening.
    You mean a check his supporters can't cash. They're the ones basically subsidizing all of his court losses, after all.

  17. #84177
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I feel like there's at least an implied "don't fuckin' say it again" clause to being found liable for defamation. And that if you ignore said implicit clause, we shouldn't just be considering allowing a further lawsuit, we should be considering massive direct fines by the courts for noncompliance and/or contempt of court.

    Let's say to the tune of "the same judgement again, every time you say it", so $5m more every time he says a thing that defames Carroll. Like, every time; if he makes 5 separate defamatory statements in one rambling paragraph, that's $25m.

    And we're not talking additional charges/court time, we're just talking the court issues a bill or seizes property. So no complaints about taking up the court's time; they're more than compensating themselves for taking that time.

    Like, if I called someone here a "shithead", and got myself banned, and came back from that ban and my first post "hey, remember that guy I called a shithead? He's still a shithead.", I'd get super banned again, and I'd deserve it.
    Well, part of what Caroll was asking for was a retraction of the comments made...I don't think that repeating the defamatory comments qualifies as a retraction. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me it's at least possible he could be held in contempt of court.
    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

    - H. L. Mencken

  18. #84178
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Hope that incredibly irresponsible town hall gave CNN the ratings they were looking for. Because it certainly had no other real reason to exist.

    News networks got too much of a taste for "journalism" during the Trump years, and they'll do absolutely everything to bring those days back.
    It didn't. Trump got 3.1 million viewers for this town hall. By comparison, in 2020 Biden got over 20.3 million viewers for his town hall.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    Watched a few more clips and Trump is going to kill Biden.

    On Russia-Ukraine he did a great job of once more going to how Europe pays less than us. Always transactional with this guy. Yet, this is going to get most Americans on his side. People look at it as a war in another country and we are flipping the bill. This is a win. Military Aid even this complex of us saving the world does not work for most Americans.
    No he won't. I can pretty much guarantee it. No one willingly believes Trump.

  19. #84179
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post

    No he won't. I can pretty much guarantee it. No one willingly believes Trump.
    I mean, That's just not factually true. He's got sycophants for days.

    I think most people support Ukraine and I don't think Trump is going to change a lot of minds on that front... but he wouldn't be dangerous if no one beleived him.
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2023-05-11 at 08:52 PM.
    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

    - H. L. Mencken

  20. #84180
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    …which I am.

    Boots weren’t put on the ground in Ukraine to combat Russians.

    The US’s support for Ukraine under Biden’s leadership is probably the single highest return-on-investment piece of geopolitical dealing in modern American history as we watch the collapse of Russia as a global power practically in real time. For just a fraction of the defense budget all while committing no American lives to the cause the US gets to contribute to the defanging of a hostile major nation.

    Trump would’ve seen Ukraine surrender in those three days. And if that didn’t work he’d probably have tried to send aid to Russia.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

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