Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Fact checking after the fact and telling your viewers to look it up is major malpractice.

They had to make the choice between informing their viewers, and keeping their subject from running off camera.

Note to self: endeavor to never have to make this choice in my own life. Oh, wait, I teach math.

[Edge-]

Fact checking after the fact and telling your viewers to look it up is major malpractice..

There's no way Donald is sitting in an interview that live fact-checks him.

Also, news shows are still desperate for ratings and Donald can still deliver that. Integrity? Ethics? Professionalism? Those all get in the way of the bottom line!

[Muzjhath]

They had to make the choice between informing their viewers, and keeping their subject from running off camera.

Note to self: endeavor to never have to make this choice in my own life. Oh, wait, I teach math.

There should be no live interviews with Trump.
Should record it, insert factchecks between statements.

[Breccia]

There should be no live interviews with Trump.
Should record it, insert factchecks between statements.

They get one shot at that. The first time someone does it, Trump refused to go on interviews until they agree to stop.

Honestly, that might not be the worst result.

[gondrin]

So, I guess Trump wants to release the Krakhead, I mean, the Kraken defense for one last time.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...5b328351&ei=13

Trump jumps on the ‘Kraken’ bandwagon one more time in bid to torpedo entire Georgia RICO prosecution

Former President Donald Trump on Monday filed court papers adopting an argument made by “Kraken” lawyer Sidney Powell in a bid to dismiss the overarching racketeering (RICO) count he faces in Georgia as violative of “fundamental constitutional principles.”

The brief Monday filing from recently hired Trump defense lawyer Steven Sadow referenced “Part III” of general demurrer that Powell filed last Friday, Sept. 15.

“President Trump hereby adopts the general demurrer timely filed by co-defendant Powell as to count one. Specifically, President Trump adopts Powell’s particularized argument in Part III that count one must be dismissed for violation of fundamental constitutional principles of due process and fair warning,” the motion said. “WHEREFORE, President Trump respectfully ADOPTS the general demurrer timely filed by co-defendant Powell.”

The Powell demurrer and motion to dismiss the RICO charge (count 1), asserted that the Georgia statute is unconstitutionally vague in its present application by Fulton County DA Fani Willis (D).

“If the Georgia RICO statute reaches the conduct alleged here, then it is unconstitutionally vague. Already, its application has necessarily been decided on a case-by-case basis. It has enabled the District Attorney’s office to make life-altering choices of those to indict — when thousands of people fall within the prosecutors’ definition of RICO here,” the demurrer said. “The State has even indicted First Amendment protected speech and conduct.”

Powell argued that the “only way the Georgia RICO statute can survive constitutional scrutiny is if the Court reads into it an element of criminal financial gain for the individual and enterprise, and the economic or physical threat or injury.”

Without those elements, the demurrer continued, the statute “raises ‘grave and doubtful constitutional questions’ of both overbreadth and vagueness” and “allows punishment of speech and political conduct long and fully protected under the First Amendment.”

The Trump move comes a matter of days after Powell successfully severed her case from co-defendants not named Ken Chesebro, an attorney who drafted a legal memo asserting that the election outcome could be overturned by then-Vice President Mike Pence on Jan. 6.

Now the former president is once again embracing a legal argument put forth by Sidney Powell, whose tantalizing “Kraken” claims after the 2020 election briefly made her a member of Trump’s “elite strike force” legal team and just as briefly vaunted Powell into the conversation of being appointed as special counsel to investigate the very claims of election-stealing fraud she never proved in court.

Trump last week also adopted a motion to quash filed by Rudy Giuliani, asserting that the RICO indictment was “fatally defective as drafted, and thus incapable of supporting a conviction.” The filing also raised concerns about double jeopardy issues, considering that special counsel Jack Smith is currently prosecuting Trump federally in Washington, D.C., for “perpetrat[ing] three criminal conspiracies” and using “unlawful means of discounting legitimate votes and subverting election results” on Jan. 6. As part of his investigation, Smith is reportedly following the money — and that apparently includes fundraising efforts by alleged co-conspirator Powell and her non-profit, Defending the Republic.

Trump similarly embraced Chesebro’s motion to dismiss under the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution and Chesebro’s demurrer as to the overarching charged RICO offense, claiming the indictment is “beyond the ambit” of Georgia’s RICO statute and “fails to allege a nexus between the enterprise and the racketeering activity as required to survive a demurrer.”

Fulton County Superior Court Judge Scott McAfee, when disposing of a separate complaint from RICO co-defendants late last week, including Powell, noted that the “substantive and unprecedented legal arguments generated by this case will require many hearings.”

Such hearings may include clashes between the prosecution and defense over the DA’s use of the Georgia RICO statute in this case.

[Edge-]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-wrot...y?id=103226113

One of former President Donald Trump's long-time assistants told federal investigators that Trump repeatedly wrote to-do lists for her on documents from the White House that were marked classified, according to sources familiar with her statements.

As described to ABC News, the aide, Molly Michael, told investigators that -- more than once -- she received requests or taskings from Trump that were written on the back of notecards, and she later recognized those notecards as sensitive White House materials -- with visible classification markings -- used to brief Trump while he was still in office about phone calls with foreign leaders or other international-related matters.

The notecards with classification markings were at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate when FBI agents searched the property on Aug. 8, 2022 -- but the materials were not taken by the FBI, according to sources familiar with what Michael told investigators.

When Michael, who was not present for the search, returned to Mar-a-Lago the next day to clean up her office space, she found the documents underneath a drawer organizer and helped transfer them to the FBI that same day, sources told ABC News.

The sources said Michael also told federal investigators that last year she grew increasingly concerned with how Trump handled recurring requests from the National Archives for the return of all government documents being kept in boxes at Mar-a-Lago -- and she felt that Trump's claims about it at the time would be easy to disprove, according to the sources.

Sources said that after Trump heard the FBI wanted to interview Michael last year, Trump allegedly told her, "You don't know anything about the boxes."

It's unclear exactly what he meant by that.

Again, literally never want to hear Republicans talk about information security ever again.

Also, VERY UNCLEAR WHAT THE VERY OBVIOUS INTENT BEHIND THE PHRASE MIGHT HAVE BEEN.

[Paranoid Android]

So maybe this is copium or getting too smart for ourselves.

Neal Katyal explains how Trump screwed himself in today's interview:

"Donald Trump's defense to Jan. 6 has been 1 basic thing: I relied on the advice of my lawyers, I didn't have bad criminal intent, it's my lawyers who were telling me to do it...And she got him to say, 'Oh no, I did it myself'...

If you're Jack Smith this morning, you're going 'thank you.'"
(Video: MSNBC)

https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/...NNJyCshYQ&s=19

Basically Trump's defense was he was following his lawyers but now professed he fired lawyers until he found lawyers he liked. Now vehemently says he is always in charge .

Other source from Meet the Press.

WATCH: Kristen Welker asks former President Trump to clarify if he was listening to his lawyers’ advice or his own instincts after he lost the 2020 election.

Trump: “It was my decision.”

https://twitter.com/MeetThePress/sta...1dppt94Xg&s=19

[Breccia]

If you're Jack Smith this morning, you're going 'thank you.'"

Increasingly looking forward to Trump not taking the stand and letting a TV show force a guilty verdict.

- - - Updated - - -

Chesebro asks for charges to be thrown out because the fake electors were duly elected.

...by the Republican Party.

The indictment alleges Chesebro and other defendants allegedly helped file Georgia’s GOP slate of electors despite knowing it made false claims, describing the electors as “the duly elected and qualified Electors for President and Vice President of the United States of America from the State of Georgia” who “do hereby certify” that Trump won Georgia.

Chesebro claimed in his filing that statement is actually accurate, because “the Republican presidential electors were qualified and elected by the Republican Party.”

Yeah, the fake electors flat-out said they represented Georgia. The losing party doesn't get to cast their votes just because they represent the losing party.

Chesebro looks to be fishing for a loophole. The actual filings these people gave to actual government officials is more telling than what Chesebro thought to say three years later.

- - - Updated - - -

Everyone having a good evening? Coffee, zucchini bread, cream cheese? No? Just me? (sip) Pity.

Could be worse. Giuliani is being sued by his former lawyers.

The lawsuit comes from firm Davidoff Hutcher & Citron, which alleges Giuliani failed to pay them for legal services related to his defense in the Georgia election interference case and in the criminal investigation into the Jan. 6 attack.

The firm says Giuliani paid $214,000 of the total bill, leaving a total of $1,360,196.10 outstanding.

Well someone didn't get much money from that BBQ after all!

[Muzjhath]

They get one shot at that. The first time someone does it, Trump refused to go on interviews until they agree to stop.

Honestly, that might not be the worst result.

It'd be the best result for anyone but their budget offices.

[Breccia]

As expected, PolitiFact got their hands on the Trump interview and it's exactly what you'd expect.

A new favorite? Trump said Biden claimed he was a pilot and lied. There is no public evidence of Biden claiming to be a pilot. Trump is such a projecting liar, he made up a lie that someone else lied, but lied.

[bladeXcrasher]

I’ve never heard of claims to being a pilot, but he has made some false “aviation” claims/statements—In 2008, he claimed his helicopter was 'forced down' by enemy fire in Afghanistan, but later confessed it was due to a snowstorm. Then in 2019, he said he was 'shot at' in Iraq, but later clarified he was near where a shot landed and felt the impact of a nearby blast.

- - - Updated - - -

He also told a false war story during his campaign, claiming to save a soldier...

That's wonderful, if this was the Biden/Harris thread. I guess the threat of you not getting to vote for trump in 2024 weighs heavy on you.

[Mekh]

As expected, PolitiFact got their hands on the Trump interview and it's exactly what you'd expect.

A new favorite? Trump said Biden claimed he was a pilot and lied. There is no public evidence of Biden claiming to be a pilot. Trump is such a projecting liar, he made up a lie that someone else lied, but lied.

Biden wears aviator sunglasses. That's like stolen valor to pilots!

[Breccia]

I’ve never heard of claims to being a pilot, but--

That's because Trump made them up. On which you said nothing. You are supporting Trump in his lies by refusing to call them out, and instead changing the subject.

You are now an admitted Trump supporter and will be labeled as such.

In 2008, he claimed his helicopter was 'forced down' by--

*loud annoying buzzer*

Biden did not say it was forced down by enemy fire. He said it was forced down. It was. You couldn't even link your rebuttal and it took me 40 seconds to destroy it.

You are a Trump supporter who is hiding out, cowering in the digital shadows. And now, you're even lying like Trump does to support Trump. Everyone else, the 24-hour challenges are back in play, and Imbas has volunteered to be the target of every single one, by admitting to being a Trump supporter.

Sorry. I don't make the rules. I just enforce them. Think about that while explaining to your daughter why groping a man's penis in public is considered a bastion of morality.

[Lenonis]

I will not be voting for Trump--I hope he's imprisoned before our election.

Press 'x' to doubt.

[gondrin]

I will not be voting for Trump--I hope he's imprisoned before our election.

He should be behind bars but that won't happen due to the fact he is the former president. That, however, isn't the worst punishment for him. The worst punishment for him would be forced to wear something around his head that he couldn't remove that would force him to tell the truth. He literally couldn't lie anymore. His narcissism would literally cause him to never speak again as it would cause him to lie. Along with never being able to post online for any reason.

[Breccia]

What kind of website is Mother Jones?

One that cited other sources, such as CNN, the Boston Globe, and even the FOX News article you cited, debunking that. Maybe you should have read it? Or, you know, not posted something false while defending serial liar Trump.

EDIT: I'm not done with you, liar defending serial liar Trump.

In 2008, he claimed his helicopter was 'forced down' by enemy fire in Afghanistan, but later confessed it was due to a snowstorm.

Your own post does not say this.

You lied, even more than your source FOX News. You posted something false, I called you out, and your source says nothing that helps you.

You are a liar, and this is not a genuine post. Please post constructively.

[Gelannerai]

What kind of website is Mother Jones?

Here’s where I read it

Only a media outlet that has a FAR stronger and lengthier history of factual reporting than the source you cited has ever had in its existence.

[Myradin]

In a Baltimore speech last week, Biden said: "If you want to know where Al Qaeda lives, you want to know where (Usama) bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me. Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."

Two days later, in Cincinnati, he said Al Qaeda has re-established a safe haven and it's not in Baghdad. "It's in the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan," he said, "where my helicopter was recently forced down."

Odd how neither quote says it was forced down by enemy fire.

[Edge-]

In a Baltimore speech last week, Biden said: "If you want to know where Al Qaeda lives, you want to know where (Usama) bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me. Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."

Two days later, in Cincinnati, he said Al Qaeda has re-established a safe haven and it's not in Baghdad. "It's in the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan," he said, "where my helicopter was recently forced down."

At a Sept. 9, fundraiser, Biden addressed his national security credentials by talking about "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan where my helicopter was forced down. John McCain wants to know where bin Laden and the gates of Hell are? I can tell him where. That's where Al Qaida is. That's where bin Laden is."

In February, Biden and fellow senators John Kerry and Chuck Hagel were flying in a helicopter over Afghanistan in a fact-finding trip when a snowstorm closed in.

"It went pretty blind, pretty fast and we were around some pretty dangerous ridges," Kerry told The Associated Press afterward. "So the pilot exercised his judgment that we were better off putting down there, and we all agreed."

He said the group waited for about three hours until a convoy with U.S. troops took them to Bagram Air Base.

"We sat up there and traded stories," Kerry joked. "We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to do it."

He added: "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."

The area was reported as not being under Taliban control. But Wade noted "it's the wild west out there" and the senators were transported under guard and with air cover from an F-16.

Though Biden never said his helicopter was shot at in Afghanistan, last year he asserted that he was "shot at" in Iraq. He amended that later, saying the quarters he was staying in while visiting Baghdad's protected Green Zone shook from a nearby blast, and "I was near where a shot landed."

But this isn't the Biden thread, though. You should post about this in the Biden thread if you want to dredge up relatively ancient political history.

[Breccia]

(does not use the term "by enemy fire")

Like I said, your own post doesn't back what you said. Please post constructively.