Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Lenonis]

He has a $4.5 condo, he has money.

He has assets. That doesn't mean he has money.

I posted tongue-in-cheek - but as much as Guiliani has jumped on the crazy train I can't imagine he thought he could just stop paying taxes. I'm assuming he's in this situation because his behavior in the last decade has caused all of his cash-on-hand to vanish and he can't leverage his assets enough or fast enough to pay his taxes.

It's also possible his tax liabilities came from playing games with the tax code and didn't come from actual income which could pay those taxes. Who knows.

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1710777385153368153

Donald randomly brings up Silence of the Lambs at a rally. Claims Hannibal Lector said "I love Donald Trump" proudly to a cheering audience.

Is apparently unaware that Hannibal Lector is a fictional character portrayed by three different actors over the years, none of whom have ever spoken positively of Donald.

Is apparently still struggling to separate fantasy and reality as he lies his way through ever speaking engagement.

I thought Republicans hated Hollywood and didn't care about celebrities? Why bring up this fake celebrity endorsement?

Anyways, another drop in my bucket for the theory that there sure seems to be a problem within the Republican party of differentiating fantasy and reality, which explains a lot.

[DarkTZeratul]

I thought Republicans hated Hollywood and didn't care about celebrities? Why bring up this fake celebrity endorsement?

A fake celebrity endorsement by a cannibalistic mass murderer, at that.

[Surfd]

Nobody:
Absolutely Nobody:
Donald Trump: Cannibal Psychos really love me!

[Breccia]

Claims Hannibal Lector said "I love Donald Trump" proudly to a cheering audience.

(sighs)

There's a reason some of the fucking cowards who support Trump refuse to actually acknowledge his behavior.

Of course, Trump is lying.

Hopkins has not publicly supported Trump and neither have other actors who have portrayed Hannibal Lecter including Mads Mikkelsen and Brian Cox, the latter of whom called Trump “such a fucking asshole” and “so full of shit.”

Hopkins, who was born in Wales and later became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2000, told The Guardian that he doesn’t care for Trump and explained that he doesn’t vote because he doesn’t “trust anyone.”

“We’ve never got it right, human beings. We are all a mess, and we’re very early in our evolution,” the actor said in 2018.

When looking for, well, literally anything that would make sense of this, yes that's me attempting to defend Trump I can't stand that half the country and some of our own posters voted for an obvious incompetent liar who's possibly insane as well, I found "Hopkins might have played Trump in the documentary about his complete and abject failure" and this LinkedIn profile which I assume is just coincidence. But, stranger things have happened than Trump bragging about being loved by horrible human beings.

There are a lot of killers. You think our country’s so innocent?

-- Trump, defending Putin, just before millions voted for him twice then pretended to be independents

So there's oh wait I forgot, Hopkins and Don Jr. share a birthday.

[alach]

A question, not really about Trump, but I don't want to start a new thread for it. Also its relevant.

I am becoming increasingly aware of more and more people around me that seem to be falling into this conspiracy rabbit hole so to speak. I just found out about some friends and family that have become so brainwashed by this nonsense they are neglecting their job and wife and children. He will spend hours watching youtube videos on how the vaccines are the devil, how the deep state is trying to steal the working man's coal and then those andreochromes or whatever.
My question is how to counter this? Outside of an intervention. Its almost like a drug. How can we get these people off this stuff. Is there resources online like truth videos that are still entertaining, or something that explains the facts in simple yet compelling ways? Maybe along the lines of John Oliver, but shorter.
I am asking here because I know there are a handful of posters that are very good at squashing the nonsense and laying out the truth.
By the way, I did get the vaccine and sadly didn't become magnetic, and my 5g hasn't ratted me out to the chinese government yet, just in case there were any lingering doubts.

[diller]

Nothing much you can do, once they are in the rabbit-hole no one can get them out - explaining the truth won't matter since they aren't concerned with the actual truth.

[Lenonis]

My question is how to counter this?

The simple answer is you can't. Like any addiction or mental health issue the person needs to decide they want to change first.

So the question becomes how to handle it that stays true to you. Here are some options:
- Stage an intervention where friends and family share their concerns. You would have to judge if this would have an impact or not. The problem with this particular cult is the demonization of anyone who disagrees - which may make people just label those friends and family as evil commie liburals or whatnot.
- Whenever crazy topics are brought up either confront them or shut it down. You should do this only to make yourself feel better - do not delude yourself into thinking you can change their mind.
- Probably the best and toughest choice - cut them out of your life. First, for your own sanity and mental health. As this person gets more and more brainwashed the odds of them turning to violence increases - and you don't want that around you. Second, the people who have left the cult often cite consequences as a reason - mainly the loss of friends and family and the isolation making them realize they aren't doing the right thing.

But more than anything just realize there is nothing you can do the convince them they are wrong. It's the same with people who become religious fanatics...they have to decide to leave...no one will be able to successfully tell them to.

[Breccia]

My question is how to counter this? Outside of an intervention. Its almost like a drug

You've identified the problem.

The very idea of someone being "reasonable" is that you can reason with them. Republicans can be reasonable. Trump cultists cannot.

Let's talk about a headline I haven't brought up yet. Famously, Clinton just a couple days ago outright said Trump followers were cultists and need to be deprogrammed. Yes, she used that exact word. Yes, a lot of people jumped on that. But even FOX News couldn't deny the basis for that statement.

"I really need everyone to spare me the faux outrage and the pearl clutching about this," Fox News' Jessica Tarlov said, speaking about Hillary Clinton's recent remarks that "at some point maybe there needs to be a formal deprogramming of [Trump's] cult members."

Tarlov served up a what she called a "little collection of things that Donald Trump and high-ranking Republicans call liberals on a daily basis: 'anarchists,' 'anti-American,' 'deranged,' 'communist,' 'corrupt,' 'compromised,' 'groomers and perverts,' 'thugs,' and 'traitors.'"

"Now," Tarlov continued, saying Clinton "was explicit that she was talking about a subsection of the Republican Party, the same way that Joe Biden is when he talks about MAGA extremism."

"But you tell me, if the leader of the Democratic Party – so that that would be Joe Biden – was facing four indictments with 91 felony counts, he had been found liable of sexually assaulting a woman and defaming her – that's E. Jean Carroll – guilty of fraud, sharing the nation's secrets – not only in the Mar-a-Lago indictment but there was a report yesterday from ABC News that he had shared information about our nuclear submarine capacities with an Australian billionaire who's a member of Mar-a-Lago, who had then gone on and shared that with dozens of other people," Tarlov rattled off, "and included specifics as to how many nuclear warheads they carry, and how close they can get to Russian subs without being detected."

"And then I told you, so all of that is happening, and he's shooting up in the polls. And when you see those interviews of Trump supporters outside of the rallies, they're like, 'none of this is true. It's the big lie, he won the election,' etc. And you wouldn't say to me, 'you guys are in a cult?' It's actually tame to what Hillary Clinton was saying."

Again, that's FOX News *ding*. Wanna see the video?

Now, I'll also remind everyone, Clinton is not in power and cannot round people up and put them in camps. And anyone upset by her saying that, remember, Trump is claiming "I won the election and I was robbed by election fraud" is the First Amendment, so anyone upset with Clinton's statements but not Trump's, their problem isn't what Clinton said. It's who she said it about. And, yes, we're right back on your topic.

Cultists are not reasonable, they are not rational, and the reason Clinton said "deprogramming" is because you have to do that shit when people are that far gone. You cannot go to your friend and family and say "Trump lost the election, he tried in court sixty times and lost sixty times because he had no evidence, and there still isn't". They will counter-claim based on their feelings and their bias, and nothing else, and to them, that's enough. Cultists work on faith, and faith does not require proof.

"This sounds dangerously close to a comment about religion."

Actually, there's a massive difference. Faith is a powerful thing, and many religions are based on faith of the unprovable. Trump's cult, by contrast, is based on faith on things very very disprovable. There is no way to demonstrably prove there is, or isn't, a benevolent, all-knowing God who cares for us. You can prove there were stolen documents in Trump's house. You can prove that Trump lied on federal forms and bank records. You can prove that Trump knew he lost the election, but took steps to force the results to his favor anyhow.

My solution? There's nothing you can do. Trump will have to do it for you. Trump is going to have to de-religion himself. And there's a finite number of ways that can happen, none of which you can force.

1) It's possible that his age and mental infirmity will eventually get out of his, and his handlers', control, and he'll basically dissolve into word potato salad. We've seen hints of that, but it's not happening fast enough to end 2024.

2) He could be deposed by Trump 2.0 a better cult leader. This is a tall order, and I don't see that happening, and even if it did it wouldn't really help, would it?

3) People have faith in something more powerful than themselves. Trump could lose so badly in 2024 and also in multiple courts that he goes to jail broke and alone. This, of course, is the ideal solution, and seems to be a realistic outcome. Trump is rapidly running out of friends and money capable of shielding him from the consequences of his actions, but he's not running out of enemies, even in the party he stole, and there's no shortage of evidence against him. If Trump is taken from them, if his money and power and freedom are removed, yes they will be upset, some will even be violent -- we've all seen it, a thousand people charged with violent terrorism on Trump's direct call -- but over time, they will lose their faith, because Trump will not be powerful enough to put faith into.

4) Or, he could die. It wouldn't end their zealous devotion of his cultists, but they would at least have no actions to take. There is no such thing as vice-cult leader. Sure as fuck ain't Pence or his kids.

5) Or...and this is by far the worst solution...a combination of factors like being anti-vax and claiming the evil Deep State is behind everything, will lead to a mass of violent surges, Trump supporters will realize how outnumbered and outgunned they really are, and a lot of the cultists will die. If, and boy do I hope this doesn't happen, if the most fanatical go full violent terrorist and show their true colors, the remaining faithful might finally see how far they've been led astray and back away. This outcome will cause massive, irrepairable damage to the United States, and thankfully, I don't see it happening. Trump is a coward and his followers are cowards. He took his best shot Jan 6th and, while that was a permanent historical national embarrassment, the country got a black eye but is still standing. If Trump couldn't mobilize a working army then, I don't see one starting now.

This probably isn't the answer you're hoping for. But, again, these people are not reasonable. Look at our very own posters, who when asked to provide evidence to back their claims, refuse, and laugh.

You cannot get them to accept facts and evidence. They thrive on the lack of, and the opposite of, those things. Vaccines having microchips, the earth being flat, Biden and Clinton running a child slavery ring out of a pizza shop. You've seen all of this.

There is nothing you can do, except isolate yourself, and minimize the damage to you and the people you care about.

Sorry.

[Gorsameth]

Trump is a symptom, not a cause. You can remove Trump (either because his heart finally fails or because he is isolated under house arrest) and his cultists will just move on to the next best thing.

It doesn't matter if that person is a better cult leader or not because the cultists are already indoctrinated. They are already primed to accept whatever someone says that vaguely appeals to them.

[Breccia]

Trump is a symptom, not a cause. You can remove Trump (either because his heart finally fails or because he is isolated under house arrest) and his cultists will just move on to the next best thing.

Agreed...but the "next best thing" won't be nearly as bad. There is no person currently still alive that would have the power to draw in a cult like Trump has. It would, at the minimum, be a short-term solution.

Keeping there from being a "next Trump" would require a massive change in public behavior. One might say, "deprogramming".

[Gorsameth]

Agreed...but the "next best thing" won't be nearly as bad. There is no person currently still alive that would have the power to draw in a cult like Trump has. It would, at the minimum, be a short-term solution.

Keeping there from being a "next Trump" would require a massive change in public behaviour. One might say, "deprogramming".

Your just making me feel salty about the 'Basket of Deplorables". People gave her so much shit over that but even at the time it was clear she was entirely right. There has part of the Republican party that can simply not be reasoned with and publicly proud of being unreasonable since atleast Obama.

A black man becoming President really made America go insane.

[Breccia]

A black man becoming President really made America go insane.

Ann Coulter Says Obama Was ‘The Most Articulate President We’ve Probably Ever Had’ and Trump ‘Has a Vocabulary of 50 Words’

One thing I’ve noticed about presidents is we tend to go back and forth, I mean it’s like me going back and forth on boyfriends, the smart, ugly one and the good-looking, stupid one.

And you just keep going back and forth, back and forth.

And the voters similarly seem to go back and forth between highly articulate presidents and marbles in their mouth presidents. So [Ronald] Reagan: Unbelievably articulate. I mean it drove Democrats crazy and oh, Hollywood, Hollywood. And then we get marbles in his mouth George Bush one. Then we get Mr. Smooth, Bill Clinton and oh, melts in your mouth. And then we go from there to another marbles in your mouth Bush to oh my gosh, the most articulate president we’ve probably ever had, Barack Obama, to Trump who has a vocabulary of about 50 words.

There's more, but I thought that was pretty appropriate -- and recent, that's two days ago -- to your comment.

[alach]

Thanks for the insight.

This spread of disinformation really is the plague of the 21st century.
Its so strange seeing a normal hard working person go to a mindless zombie praising Putin and communism and screeching about George Soros' deep state in only a year.
Oh well.

[diller]

Thanks for the insight.

Usually bad things happen to these people that makes them understand what they were doing was wrong, like this woman

[Sunseeker]

He has assets. That doesn't mean he has money.

I posted tongue-in-cheek - but as much as Guiliani has jumped on the crazy train I can't imagine he thought he could just stop paying taxes. I'm assuming he's in this situation because his behavior in the last decade has caused all of his cash-on-hand to vanish and he can't leverage his assets enough or fast enough to pay his taxes.

It's also possible his tax liabilities came from playing games with the tax code and didn't come from actual income which could pay those taxes. Who knows.

I'm not terribly concerned with what the answer is.

My point is that if you own a $4.5M asset and can afford to keep it, but cannot figure out how to leverage it, you probably shouldn't be owning a $4.5M asset.

As the old saying goes "A fool and his money are soon parted."

Or maybe he could pay his bills by cutting back on Starbucks and avocado toast.

[Poopymonster]

I blame the status of the GOP on the combination of Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, and the end of the Fairness Doctrine.

Rush mostly. He radicalized and brainwashed millions of listeners that Democrats and liberals were evil. Once that's established, it wouldn't matter if Jesus Christ himself was the Democrat nominee, he would be run out of town. Not to mention, he perfected the the classic "my vices are okay because I'm a conservative" defense.

For those unaware of the reach of Limbaugh, Rolling Stone put out a good article about his impact on US politics.

Rush Limbaugh Did His Best to Ruin America



It is my contention that all the trolls in the GOP can trace their inspiration back to Rush.

Do you think he ever forgave his lungs for turning black?
I mean before he died that is.

[Nymrohd]

Your just making me feel salty about the 'Basket of Deplorables".

I don't really get why that mattered. Who would have voted for Hillary but did not because of that comment?

[Captain N]

Limbaugh put out propaganda books aimed at children. His brainwashing bullshit was to convince people from young ages the Conservative version of American History.

[Attackrabbit]

I don't really get why that mattered. Who would have voted for Hillary but did not because of that comment?

There's at least one guy on the forums who has said that is explicitly the reason as to why they didn't vote for Hillary :s