Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Endus]

I will say, it's either a gift for Trump, or Chutkan just said "Strike two."

Frankly, I think Chutkan is giving Trump enough rope that when he flagrantly violates orders for the third time, she can slap the noose on without having to worry about cries of persecution or bias.

The moment Trump gets slapped with contempt charges, he can be hauled in and held incommunicado in a cell until he makes a heartfelt and honest retraction and apology for his statements, admitting he was wrong. Which, of course, Trump would refuse to do. But that's fine, he can sit in a cell with no contact to anyone but his lawyers until trial, in that case.

While this could've been a first step move, giving him three chances means there's no real contest that she's got the right and authority to do this.

[Odinfrost]

Frankly, I think Chutkan is giving Trump enough rope that when he flagrantly violates orders for the third time, she can slap the noose on without having to worry about cries of persecution or bias.

The moment Trump gets slapped with contempt charges, he can be hauled in and held incommunicado in a cell until he makes a heartfelt and honest retraction and apology for his statements, admitting he was wrong. Which, of course, Trump would refuse to do. But that's fine, he can sit in a cell with no contact to anyone but his lawyers until trial, in that case.

While this could've been a first step move, giving him three chances means there's no real contest that she's got the right and authority to do this.

That is what I mean with "Strike two." He keeps going, and it's three strikes, so he's out.

[Breccia]

I will say, it's either a gift for Trump, or Chutkan just said "Strike two."

Well that matches with

Trump's 'kid-gloves' treatment by the courts could be coming to a halt

According to MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirschner, the courts -- so far -- have been granting the former president great leeway in what he has said about the judges overseeing his multitude of criminal cases as well as his attacks on prosecutors and investigators.

Depending on the severity of Chutkan's ruling -- which could ban him from inciting his followers at rallies and on his struggling Truth Social platform -- other judges could feel free to clamp down on the former president's out-of-court shenanigans.

As Kirschner writes, "Regarding court-imposed limitations on a defendant’s speech, in 1991 the Supreme Court made it clear that courts can restrict extrajudicial statements that pose a “substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing” a judicial proceeding without running afoul of the First Amendment’s free speech guarantees."

He then notes that Trump has been given more than enough rope by judges

*cough cough @Endus cough*

who have balked at making controversial rulings fearing the appearance of bias.

"I cannot recall ever seeing a defendant on pretrial release in a felony case threaten the life of a witness — or, in Trump’s case, suggest that a witness should be executed — and remain on pretrial release," he argues. "The judicial system’s casual treatment of Trump’s unending threats, harassment and intimidation of witnesses is as perplexing as it is alarming."

Accordingly, he says Chutkan has the opportunity this week to end the "kid-gloves" treatment of the former president.

"Will the courts continue to leave him free to endanger witnesses and poison jury pools? Or will they begin treating him the way they tend to treat those without power, wealth and influence and hold him accountable for his extraordinarily dangerous and damaging rhetoric? Our criminal justice system is being tested — now it must rise to the challenge," he argues.

Now where I was going was, Trump steps out of line, he's hauled in for a contempt hearing, his lawyers spend a couple days trying to prove why Trump calling the judge a cunt in public isn't disrespectful, and everything is pushed back.

Yes, there's a line he could cross that will get him thrown in jail. He'll edge up on it slowly and stop when it's "only" fines that are more than any of us make in a year.

- - - Updated - - -

The trials continue. Amongst the highlights today, Trump Org flat-out said under oath they lied about their cash on hand.

Trump Hotels chief accounting officer Mark Hawthorn testified that in 2018 he inadvertently overstated the value of Trump's assets by relying on Trump's statement of financial condition.

When an outside accounting firm requested the amount of Trump's liquid assets, Hawthorn said he consulted the financial statement that listed "cash equivalents in excess of $290 million."

The New York attorney general alleges that Vornado Partnerships, a separate company with whom Trump has a limited partnership interest, owned 30% of the "cash and cash equivalents" Trump claimed in his 2018 statement.

In his testimony, Hawthorn said that information was not disclosed in the statement. He also said that he only was able to view the statement briefly in a 20-minute Google Meet session.

"It appears to have been overstated," Hawthorn said of the representation of Trump's assets on the statement.

That's an $87 million lie on his financial statement. Well, one of his many financial statements.

In related testimony, he also said that he volunteered to help with this, erm, maybe not perfectly accurate financial statement and was qualified to do so. His offer was rejected.

[Edge-]

That's an $87 million lie on his financial statement. Well, one of his many financial statements.

In related testimony, he also said that he volunteered to help with this, erm, maybe not perfectly accurate financial statement and was qualified to do so. His offer was rejected.

A "small" loan of a million dollars.

A "small" fraud of overstating your liquid assets by eighty seven million dollars.

Very small things.

[Breccia]

Ladies and gentlemen and @cubby

Mike Lindell has chosen to represent himself in court.

This. Could be. Glorious.

Neama Rahmani, president of the West Coast Trial Lawyers law firm, said that Lindell is making a major error in representing himself.

"Lindell is making a mistake. He's not a lawyer and has never tried a case. Dominion's attorneys are going to run circles around him.

"Adding the fact that he has no filter and isn't careful about what he says, which got him here in the first place, he's likely to turn off the judge and jury. This all has the makings of a large judgement against Lindell," he said.

[Odinfrost]

Rahmani, no disrespect, but as MMOC's second-favorite lawyer keeps saying: Always have a lawyer, even if you're a lawyer.
Lindel not being a lawyer is a non-factor

[draynay]

Ladies and gentlemen and @cubby

Mike Lindell has chosen to represent himself in court.

This. Could be. Glorious.

[Edge-]

Ladies and gentlemen and @cubby

Mike Lindell has chosen to represent himself in court.

This. Could be. Glorious.

Let's see if the "My Cousin Vinny" strategy works for him. Somehow I doubt he's using his pre-trial time studying relevant laws, case law, and precedent and preparing to vigorous legal defense. I imagine he might actually be watching "My Cousin Vinny" for some tips, though.

[Paranoid Android]

Ladies and gentlemen and @cubby

Mike Lindell has chosen to represent himself in court.

This. Could be. Glorious.

You are welcome people from Minnesota.

Yeah he is one of our crazies and while his business seemed like a scam from the start it's crazy watching this dude go down in flames. Idk how may people he employed or if his business is still up but damn way to burn this mofo down. Too bad his family didn't face the consequences but as usual they will be protected and while not worth $100's of millions, will walk around with pocket change of $10's of million.

Not an uber capitalist but he had net worth of $200-$400 million and was the case of the hidden Republican. The "small" business owner who is a multi-millionaire supporting Republicans for the goodness forbid I have to pay 5% in more taxes that would never effect him in anyway. What's crazy is these type of people easily flipped to the fascism of the now Republican Party.

Why? Likely fascism puts down any type of labor or social uprising that interferes with their business. Umm, they are straight bigots, look at billionaire Mercers. Lindell went crazy and he has a sketchy past. I'm all for a former user turning his life around, but I think he seems like one of those that needs a purpose in his life and Trump cult was it.

[Kaleredar]

You are welcome people from Minnesota.

Yeah he is one of our crazies and while his business seemed like a scam from the start it's crazy watching this dude go down in flames. Idk how may people he employed or if his business is still up but damn way to burn this mofo down. Too bad his family didn't face the consequences but as usual they will be protected and while not worth $100's of millions, will walk around with pocket change of $10's of million.

Not an uber capitalist but he had net worth of $200-$400 million and was the case of the hidden Republican. The "small" business owner who is a multi-millionaire supporting Republicans for the goodness forbid I have to pay 5% in more taxes that would never effect him in anyway. What's crazy is these type of people easily flipped to the fascism of the now Republican Party.

Why? Likely fascism puts down any type of labor or social uprising that interferes with their business. Umm, they are straight bigots, look at billionaire Mercers. Lindell went crazy and he has a sketchy past. I'm all for a former user turning his life around, but I think he seems like one of those that needs a purpose in his life and Trump cult was it.

I think you’re ascribing too much forethought to this guy. He seems like a right loon. If he were trying to do some shrewd 27-d chess to further his business it probably wouldn’t involve him destroying his business at the same time.

[Paranoid Android]

I think you’re ascribing too much forethought to this guy. He seems like a right loon. If he were trying to do some shrewd 27-d chess to further his business it probably wouldn’t involve him destroying his business at the same time.

Naw he wasn't grifting his business. I'm with you. He went off the rails for the few I gave example of or something else. I was just tying into the part of these small business owners, who are actually very wealthy in the 1% of 1% and they embraced the fascism. Is it that they know fascism can suppress any resistance to their capital gains? Perhaps like Lindell you just go too far down that rabbit hole.

I'm psycho over analyzing here too but mention that he seems to whatever his past was he thinks he needs a purpose for the rest of life. Yes, as you mentioned. I never claimed this guy brilliant. He was a grifter though with the pillows, but hey people sell shit products everyday.

[Breccia]

Not an uber capitalist but he had net worth of $200-$400 million

I legit do not understand someone worth $100 million refusing to pay his lawyers $1 million for protecting him in a lawsuit seeking $800 million.

But then, I also don't understand denying broke people food stamps while giving money to someone claiming to be a rich billionaire who also doesn't pay his lawyers for keeping him out of jail.

[Kaleredar]

Naw he wasn't grifting his business. I'm with you. He went off the rails for the few I gave example of or something else. I was just tying into the part of these small business owners, who are actually very wealthy in the 1% of 1% and they embraced the fascism. Is it that they know fascism can suppress any resistance to their capital gains? Perhaps like Lindell you just go too far down that rabbit hole.

I'm psycho over analyzing here too but mention that he seems to whatever his past was he thinks he needs a purpose for the rest of life. Yes, as you mentioned. I never claimed this guy brilliant. He was a grifter though with the pillows, but hey people sell shit products everyday.

I imagine he was a rather senseless person prone to persuasion and paranoia that got in with the right wing at some point because he liked their let's say "pro-CEO" political stances, then hopped on the trump hype train because Trump was a "big manly business man that told it like it was" that could "put all those weak libs in their place." And then he spiraled down the conspiracy nut rabbit hole that Trump dug.

[Odinfrost]

I legit do not understand someone worth $100 million refusing to pay his lawyers $1 million for protecting him in a lawsuit seeking $800 million.

But then, I also don't understand denying broke people food stamps while giving money to someone claiming to be a rich billionaire who also doesn't pay his lawyers for keeping him out of jail.

But how can you become a billionaire if you actually pay your bills?

(Is it common for rich people to actually not pay for stuff and get away with it?)

[Breccia]

(Is it common for rich people to actually not pay for stuff and get away with it?)

I would assume so, but I'm talking about the lawyer whose one job you hired them for is to keep you from having no money at all, or, to keep you from going to jail. Not paying them, specifically. Like, I can understand not having a scratch or dent on your car fixed, or delaying having that Check Engine light looked at, but if you don't buy gas your car does not move.

[Ivanstone]

I imagine he was a rather senseless person prone to persuasion and paranoia that got in with the right wing at some point because he liked their let's say "pro-CEO" political stances, then hopped on the trump hype train because Trump was a "big manly business man that told it like it was" that could "put all those weak libs in their place." And then he spiraled down the conspiracy nut rabbit hole that Trump dug.

He’s a drug and gambling addict. He switched his addiction to religion.

Unfortunately for him the religion he’s addicted to is the Cult of Donald.

- - - Updated - - -

I legit do not understand someone worth $100 million refusing to pay his lawyers $1 million for protecting him in a lawsuit seeking $800 million.

Is he worth that much still? I’m under the impression that he set his fortune on fire.

[Endus]

But how can you become a billionaire if you actually pay your bills?

(Is it common for rich people to actually not pay for stuff and get away with it?)

Constantly.

Look at it this way; if you have a million dollars in investments earning a consistent, reliable return, if you can fuck around and not pay a million-dollar bill for 6 months or a year, you've been earning on that million while it sits in your investment portfolio for that entire time, and there's often no penalty for late payment or that penalty is dwarfed by the return you've gotten until your were legally forced to pay the money. And sometimes, they might decide it's not worth the legal battle, and you don't have to pay it at all!

If your primary concern is your own wealth, you'd be an idiot to actually pay your bills up front and on time. Complete moron. There's no benefit to you whatsoever, and a lot of negatives.

[Edge-]

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...israel-1835318

Donnie Jr. is very, very, very, very, very concerned about armed paragliders landing in your backyard and wants to make sure you're ready to defend yourself.

I will say, if Republicans ever start buying up a lot of parachutes and things of the sort I'll take up his advice. But as-is my neck of the woods is incredibly peaceful (violent crime went down in 2022 nationally, too!) so I'm not thinking that's an expense I need to take on right now.

[Breccia]

Is he worth that much still?

Some articles suggest that, but it's the proportions that were key.

[Edge-]

https://www.newsweek.com/aileen-cann...easier-1835497

Judge Cannon continues the absurd orders.

Judge Aileen Cannon delivered a victory to former President Donald Trump in his classified documents case on Tuesday.

Cannon is overseeing Trump's trial in the Department of Justice (DOJ)'s investigation into whether he mishandled classified documents found at his Mar-a-Lago residence in Florida. Federal prosecutors accused Trump of removing the documents from the White House when he left office in January 2021, and the former president has pleaded not guilty to the 37 counts, including 31 counts of willful retention of national defense information. Trump, who is running in the 2024 Republican presidential primary, maintains his innocence, accusing prosecutors of targeting him for political purposes.

...

"The parties are advised that production of classified discovery to defense counsel is deemed timely upon placement in an accredited facility in the Southern District of Florida, not in another federal district," Cannon's paperless order reads. "It is the responsibility of the Office of the Special Counsel to make and carry out arrangements to deposit such discovery to defense counsel in this District, in consultation with the Litigation Security Group for security purposes."

"In the meantime, the CISO informed the Government and the defense that the defense SCIF and a second Florida location had been approved for review and discussion for all classified discovery, resolving the outstanding access issues—another fact that the defense omitted from its pleading. The Government promptly arranged for delivery of the remaining materials to the SCIF for review upon counsel's arrival this week," the filing reads.

...

"This is an absurd order. As I understand it, there are at least three classified documents that legally *can't* be removed from D.C. Also, Trump never actually requested these documents be locally reviewed. Cannon is just taking it upon herself to demand this for... some reason," wrote Matthew Chapman.

"Accredited facility is what you use for storage units — not classified documents — that sounds like a Trump vocab move to start changing the narrative," political consultant Julie Zebrak wrote.

Now if there are indeed documents that can't legally leave DC, or that this "accredited facility" is not an actual standard for storing classified documents I don't know for certain. But I'm inclined to believe those folks over judge Cannon given her fairly questionable history.