Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

Trump supporters HATE China, but love to spread their propaganda since the Epoch Times and NTD are both owned by the Chinese propagandists.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-epoch-times/

Toby Faire they're not CCP chills, they're anti-communists. Which doesn't inherently mean they're good/better/less bad, because they're pretty dogshit, too.

[Poopymonster]

tRump is a test to the system. And clearly the system has some big flaws.

And the party he leads is seeing "Just how far CAN we go before we get our dicks stomped on."

[ringpriest]

They didn't even hit him with another, larger fine? What the fuck is this judge doing? WARNINGS WITH ZERO CONSEQUENCES DON'T MATTER, AND SMALL CONSEQUENCES ALSO DON'T MATTER. Multiple the fine by ten every time he says some dumb shit.

To play devil's advocate for the judge, there are multiple angles he has to keep in mind on this:

1) holding a rich white male to account in the US is always tricky, the whole system is designed around letting people like Trump, but with a little more common sense and who are a little less reprehensible basically skate if they can spend enough money on lawyers. So nailing a slimy cockroach like Trump is very hard.


2) when the rich white male in question is a former President, and a Presidential candidate with a violent cult following, and who is engaged in insurrection, using the very fact that he in on trial for (some of) his crimes as a rallying cry against the government, and for more terrorism. (I mean, he's basically screaming, "Will no one rid me of these troublesome judges and prosecutors?" every day, but most of his supports are cowards, so he hasn't managed to trigger anything major, yet.) The judge doesn't want to give him anything to fling to his base.


3) both the in court of public opinion, and it the actual courts, it's important to not leave any wiggle room when nailing a slimy cockroach like Trump. It is quite possible that Engoron is giving Trump enough rope so that when Engoron pulls the noose tight and throws the book at him, not even the most Trump-sympathetic judge will have any room under the law to let him out.

Engoron could have thrown Trump in jail today and been within his rights... but a sympathetic judge in a higher court might let him out. I suspect Engoron wants to say something like As Mr. Trump has had every chance possible to moderate his behavior, and I have repeatedly clearly outlined the boundaries of unacceptable conduct that puts my staff at risk, and Mr. Trump has repeatedly chosen to issue threats in response, I have no choice but to order him held in confinement until I have issued my decision" with absolutely no fear that even a hudges as biased as Cannon & Thomas (who obviously have no jurisdiction here - I'm only using them as stand ins for any extremely biased judge) would hesitate before letting Donald back on the street.

[Malkiah]

tRump is a test to the system. And clearly the system has some big flaws.

respectfully, I think you give him way too much credit..
my assessment of history and politics is that Trump is merely a symptom, not the cause.

christofacism is the real test to the system that we are currently failing. Trump is nothing more than a cold sore growing off the anus flap of US politics - sure it itches and it's unsightly, but it's simply the manifestation of a disease that exists within the system.

[Breccia]

Trump struggles to play 1D checkers, accuses Cohen of lying on the stand.

Trump claimed Cohen, New York Attorney General Letitia James’s “star” witness in the fraud case, “lied like a dog on the stand today, and then admitted I did NOTHING WRONG. … A total SleazeBag.”

“The New York State Attorney Generals case against me is DEAD, but the Radical Left Judge REFUSES to end it. He just can’t let it go,” Trump wrote on Truth Social, repeating his frequent attack on the judge in the case.

“Letitia James should focus on Violent Crime, which is out of control. So unfair. I don’t even get a Jury Trial. A blight on the New York State Judicial System,” he continued. “Businesses are watching all over the world, and never coming in, only moving out. The Governor should get involved.”

He added, “Election Interference by my Political Opponent!”

"Is he still going on about the jury trial he refused?"

Yes.

"Isn't there a gag order?"

Would it matter if there was?

"Who, specifically, is the political opponent?"

Honestly at this point, he might be talking about Biden or Obama pulling the strings. It's just a label he slaps on anything that looks like the consequences of his actions.

"What is he even talking about, tho?"

Okay, so as I think I posted earlier, Cohen was asked about 100 questions and 99 times said "Trump did a crime" and one time said "I don't remember Trump doing that crime". Trump is cherry-picking so hard, he got elected head of a fire department.

At no point once did Cohen say "Trump did nothing wrong". He merely refused to claim knowledge of something he didn't have.

And of course, Trump said all that from the fleeting comfort of "not on the witness stand". If he has proof Cohen lied, he's free to, nay, encouraged to bring it. Considering his name is signed on a shitload of fraudulent forms, claiming "I didn't know all these forms I signed were fraudulent" is a tall order anyhow. Cohen saying "Trump knew they were fraudulent, and I know because I was his lawyer during that time and he told me" isn't helping Trump. What Trump has are sound bites outside the courthouse, and witness intimidation. Nothing else. A he said/Trump said with no evidence would not normally have been brought, NYState has more than Cohen's word. Nothing about his testimony yet has called for a dismissal. Quite the opposite.

Just as an example, here's NPR:

During his testimony, Cohen said that Trump had asked him to "increase the total assets based upon a number that he arbitrarily elected."

His responsibility, along with that of former Trump Organization Chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg, "was to reverse engineer the very different asset classes, increase those assets in order to achieve the numbers" Trump had asked for.

I admit it's physically possible for Cohen to be lying. I see no reason why a rational person would do that in this context. If it's proven he's lying, he gets slammed with a bunch of really ugly consequences, and Cohen must know what forms Trump filed because he's the one who filed them.

But all Trump has are his empty words to the cameras. He can't say this in the courtroom, actually wait, he can, he will be asked, he will refuse. Trump is almost certainly taking the stand but will refuse to answer questions, I must be 1000th or more in line for "calling it now", Trump knows what he did and this could literally send him to jail. He'll let his Org die, like everything else he touches -- the country, the love his family was supposed to show for him, his penis -- but hide, sobbing, in the corner rather than say "No, I am not a criminal" on the stand.

Trump supporters, I hope you enjoy these sound bites, they're about to raise in value. Not like Trump will get a lot of them in prison.

[Edge-]

https://archive.ph/BFazY

The Economist and YouGov this week became the latest to publish a head-scratching poll showing Republicans rejecting basic facts about Trump and his legal jeopardy.

The poll asked people whether Trump was “involved in an attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election in Georgia.” He, of course, was. Myriad pieces of evidence make that abundantly clear. We have a literal recording of him asking Georgia’s secretary of state to “find” just enough votes to overcome his deficit, and Trump on the call explicitly cited “flipping” the results in the state.

But to most Republicans, this apparently never happened. Just 18 percent in the YouGov poll said Trump was involved in trying to overturn Georgia’s results, compared to 59 percent who say he wasn’t.

It’s now the second poll to show the vast majority of Republicans saying Trump wasn’t even involved in trying to overturn the election. YouGov asked similar, non-Georgia-specific questions in August. Republicans said just 38-30 percent that there was an attempt to overturn the election. That’s shocking in and of itself. But then it showed only half of that 38 percent said Trump was personally involved.

So in both polls, only about 1 in 5 Republicans said Trump tried to overturn the election — the very basic threshold fact that undergirds two of his four indictments.

The Republican party seems truly lost from reality and living in a fictional fantasy world. I'm unsure how you're supposed to have dialogue with or expect any productivity out of a group that literally rejects basic facts of reality.

[Breccia]

The Republican party seems truly lost from reality and living in a fictional fantasy world.

It's that, or it's worse.

They could have said "no" not because they think Trump wasn't involved -- he was, we have the phone call -- but because they don't see it as an attempt to overturn the election results. Or they do, and don't see it as wrong. Or they do, but don't care.

None of these are redeeming qualities.

[The Stormbringer]

It's that, or it's worse.

They could have said "no" not because they think Trump wasn't involved -- he was, we have the phone call -- but because they don't see it as an attempt to overturn the election results. Or they do, and don't see it as wrong. Or they do, but don't care.

None of these are redeeming qualities.

"Trump can't be "overturning" the results of the election, because he WON the election! It's the DEMOCRATS that overturned the results! You're all just too blind to see it!" -These people, presumably

[zorkuus]

"Trump can't be "overturning" the results of the election, because he WON the election! It's the DEMOCRATS that overturned the results! You're all just too blind to see it!" -These people, presumably

Yeah and it was Antifa! who were rioting on jan 6th.

[Edge-]

Yeah and it was Antifa! who were rioting on jan 6th.

People still unironically argue this. They were all proud patriots but they were also antifa/blm/fbi! it was a gathering of patriotic americans but also a federal honeypot!

up is also down! left is also right! where was obama on 9/11 and why was he not in the oval office?!?!?!?!?!

[Breccia]

So, funny story, if you're a lawyer and you plead guilty to being a lawyer who used their being a lawyer to break the law...your ass gets disbarred.

According to local reports, her guilty plea appears to trigger a review by Colorado Attorney Regulation Counsel Jessica Yates, who investigates allegations of lawyer misconduct.

A criminal conviction obliges a lawyer who is licensed to practice in Colorado to report the conviction to report the conviction to Yates' office within 14 days.

When Colorado Newsline asked Yates about the issue, she reportedly declined to discuss the case specifically but is quoted as saying lawyers are prohibited from committing "a criminal act that reflects adversely on the lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness, or fitness as a lawyer in other respects," and added, in an email:

When Colorado Newsline asked Yates about the issue, she reportedly declined to discuss the case specifically but is quoted as saying lawyers are prohibited from committing "a criminal act that reflects adversely on the lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness, or fitness as a lawyer in other respects," and added, in an email:

Meanwhile, speaking to 9News, legal analyst Whitney Traylor said admitting to the "aggressive attempt" to "overthrow the election with no constitutional basis" may "ultimately hurt her in regard to her law license" because she told the judge in the case she failed to do her due diligence.

"That is the standard of a lawyer," he continued. "When you look at when you are going to get disbarred it's a matter of 'did you meet your due diligence? Did you do what a reasonable lawyer would do?' And she's acknowledging, 'no I didn't do that,' so she's going to have a really tough case when that comes around."

While that's going on, let's check on Trump.

Writer Maggot Hagerman of the Failing New York Times--

"You spelled her name wrong."

No, I didn't.

Writer Maggot Hagerman of the Failing New York Times wrote almost her entire FAKE story today about the Trump Hating Judge’s Gag Order (They love to silence me!), rather than the Racist Attorney General’s STAR witness chocking like a dog on the Witness Stand (Perry Mason?)

"Perry Mason?"

He's a TV game show host, remember.

"You spelled choking wrong."

No, I didn't.

"...is he suggesting using Cohen to stop his airplane from rolling away?"

I mean, he does like throwing people under the bus.

Then it just kind of devolves into all-caps stuff we've seen before, such as Trump saying Cohen said Trump did nothing wrong and therefore the case is Trump Hating Judge corrupt crime ridden bias Maggot. Anyone who thinks Biden is having trouble speaking needs to be shown Trump writing, a situation in which he has more time and a proofreader.

Trump has bigger problems than his lack of filter, or spelling mistakes that would embarrass a ten-year-old. Ivanka is testifying in his trial, which means one of three things:
1) She takes the 5th, or
2) She takes the blame, seems unlikely, I don't think she had that much rank to pull, or
3) She throws Trump under the bus.

"Trump is innocent" is an option I'm summarily handwaving.

New York Supreme Court Judge Arthur Engoron on Friday decided that her dismissal from the case doesn’t absolve her of taking the stand after being subpoenaed by the attorney general’s office. Her testimony won’t be scheduled before Nov. 1, to give her lawyers time to appeal, the trial judge ruled.

Both Ivanka and Trump's lawyers, yes they have different lawyers isn't that interesting, have objected, with Trump saying it's harassment and Ivanka saying she doesn't even live in New York. Both defenses were handwaved, as Ivanka is still doing business in the state of New York, as is Trump Org, which she's still part of, and is the subject of this trial. Otherwise, everyone running a business would live in a different state.

Man, Team Trump is not doing well with the legal issues. It's like they can't get any air, like they're being strangled, like something's stuck in their throat.

There should really be a word for that.

[Edge-]

I believe this is the second time Donald has invoked Perry Mason's name in his legal battles over the past year.

If Perry Mason was alive to respond today, I imagine it would be along the lines of -

[Resurgo]

To play devil's advocate for the judge, there are multiple angles he has to keep in mind on this:

... edited for brevity

The big problem I see here is that it, yet again, illustrates the dichotomy of rich people vs even an average joe...

$15,000 is a pretty hefty sum of money for most of us.

This just sends the message that it's not illegal for rich people. You're only paying a license to do the illegal/threatening things everyone else isn't supposed to be able to do.

[Edge-]

The big problem I see here is that it, yet again, illustrates the dichotomy of rich people vs even an average joe...

$15,000 is a pretty hefty sum of money for most of us.

This just sends the message that it's not illegal for rich people. You're only paying a license to do the illegal/threatening things everyone else isn't supposed to be able to do.

This is how fines work in general and why non-scaling fines are regressive and fucking stupid.

I always think back to a story a woman shared about a guy she dated a while back. Super rich guy, like, apparently "money is literally never an issue" rich. As they were dating she started noticing that he'd park his nice car in red zones and other no-parking zones where he'd always get a ticket. She asked him about this at one point and why he paid for all these parking tickets and his response was that was just the cost of convenient parking for him.

The ticket, the fine, wasn't a penalty. That was just the basic cost for convenience.

But it's unlikely we'd ever see scaling fines as those with money would never want to conceive of the notion that they might ever actually suffer financial penalties for any wrongdoing. They are rich, after all.

[arandomuser]

So i thought trump voters were economically anxious and just wanted blue collar factory jobs back
we have 4.9% gdp growth
record manufacturing jobs re shoring
*inflation adjusted* wage growth -whether or not people believe it its literally what the facts say
yet polls show the end democracy guy is ahead
do people really just hate lgbtq people and immigrants that much? i dont buy it ANY economic reasoning for not supporting biden those people are motivated by social issues which i guess everyone knew aside from the dozens of NYT articles painting them as economically anxious material based voters

[Edge-]

https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-jud...ed-2023-10-27/

Huh, unsurprisingly press want to air Donald's witness testimony on TV. Also pretty unsurprisingly, prosecutors don't want Donald on TV on the stand, live.

U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan in Washington asked Trump’s lawyers to give their opinion by Nov. 10 on media requests to broadcast the trial, which is scheduled to begin in March 2024.

Now it could absolutely blow up in his face and all, but IMO there's just no public benefit or benefit to anyone by giving him a huge platform to tell a bunch of lies and perjure himself on so he can complain about it later.

[Malkiah]

yet polls show the end democracy guy is ahead

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mille...114652508.html

Millennials and Gen Z won’t answer the phone so the U.K. has had to change how it measures unemployment
It’s getting harder and harder to know how the labor market is going to perform each month.

Britain's Office for National Statistics (ONS) released new experimental statistics Tuesday to measure employment, unemployment, and economic inactivity in the U.K., citing “increased uncertainty” around the previous Labor Force Survey and its usual methodology.

The shift came from a significant drop in response rates for its usual survey, which made the classic measure no longer reliable.

this is true for the US as well - young people don't answer their cell phones, and don't even have land lines, and most polls are conducted via phone via landline, so polls are showing you that old people who were willing to answer the phone and then spend 10 minutes taking a survey about their political opinions are generally more favorable towards trump... which makes total sense, because old people are naturally fucking retarded.

now the flip side there is that olds vote more often than younger people do so it's not that this polling data can be completely dismissed - it IS an indicator that these past-the-expiration-date fucks are a bunch of simpering nimrods who will vote for trump in 2024, so the real issue of discourse comes down to what ratio of younger people are more on the sane side of the spectrum and what percentage of those will also vote in 2024.

[postman1782]

Trump can't even pay his fines in the New York case. Alina Habba did.

[Edge-]

Trump can't even pay his fines in the New York case. Alina Habba did.

He has a history of not paying his legal team, either, so I imagine she's eating this cost and won't be reimbursed, rofl. I wonder if she knows this.

[postman1782]

He has a history of not paying his legal team, either, so I imagine she's eating this cost and won't be reimbursed, rofl. I wonder if she knows this.

Well, considering almost all of his money that he has gotten as donations has gone to his legal defense fund. And he is running out of money there, she will know soon if she doesn't now.