Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Benggaul]

Yeah its important to remember that Trump is miles ahead of his competition in the primary because the majority of voters are basically neo nazis. That isn't some leftist conspiracy, that is just literal facts based on their voting patterns.

He is a symptom, not the cause.

I'm going to assume you meant the majority of voters in the GOP primaries because according to the last two presidential races the majority of voters overall aren't buying his bullshit.

[Endus]

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...n/71882561007/

According to a poll of registered Republicans in Iowa -

55% are more likely to vote for Donald because he's going to "seriously look into Obamacare alternatives" (he said this last time, nothing happened)
50% are more likely to vote for him because he's promising to send the Gaspacho out to go door to door to ask for "PAPERS, PLEASE" and if you don't have them he'll send you to a concentration camp.
43% are more likely to vote for him because he calls liberals "radical left thugs that live like vermin" and need to be rooted out, just a bit Nazi.
42% are more likely to vote for him because he says illegal immigrants are poisoning the blood of America, which is very explicitly Nazi.
42% seem to honestly believe only he can prevent WWIII (rofl)
40% believe him when he says he's the "most pro-life president in American history"

Thankfully these last numbers aren't that nightmarish

19% are more likely to vote for him because he says he'll have "no choice" but to jail his political opponents if he wins
14% are more likely to vote for him because they believe the Big Lie that Donald won 2020 and think that the "fraud" justifies the termination of the US Constitution.

Just a reminder of where the extremist plurality of the Republican base seems to be.

Just as important is the percentage who'll vote for him despite these things.

If you'll vote for the ethnic purging of non-whites, you're just as Nazi as the guy with the swastika tattoo on his face. Your vote demonstrates you endorse such things. The only people who vote for Nazi-adjacent rhetoric are Nazi-adjacent voters. The German family who voted for Hitler because they "had concerns about the economy, but weren't sure about all this ant-Jew stuff" were exactly as much a family of Nazis as the Goebbels' and Himmler's of the Party. That's what being a Nazi means.

[Breccia]

42% are more likely to vote for him because he says illegal immigrants are poisoning the blood of America, which is very explicitly Nazi.

FOX News defends Trump's Nazi-esque language by saying "yes, what he said was full of hate, but you have to understand--"

Fox News host Brian Kilmeade defended Trump’s comments over the weekend in which he said immigrants are “poisoning the blood of our country,” remarks that have earned widespread rebuke.

“He was talking about the border. He was talking about people coming from other countries, coming from prisons. And they wanted to focus on all the Sunday shows, Lawrence, on the word he used, ‘poison,’” Kilmeade said of Trump. “He’s just trying to say we want to keep America, America. We want to build up the border and find out who’s coming in and out. And they tried to say that this language was the problem.”

Kilmeade said leading Democrats and media figures are trying to make people “fearful” of a second Trump term so they will “hold their nose” and vote for Biden.

"You're just trying to make the person who said all those horrible things sound bad" isn't exactly the defense he thinks it is.

Trump's declaration that he would crown himself a dictator--

"Just for one day!"

Hmm. What is the correct amount of time for America to have a dictator? Because I think it's zero. We had a war about it. Two, techincally, 1812 counts. Anyhow, in addition to what Edge- said about him already trying to build up the border and, well, mostly failing (he did get a bunch of violent thugs in the border patrol but there was no Wall) and leaving aside the part where things like motive matter (especially in crimes, more on that soon enough) let's remind everyone that
a) Trump's grandfather fled to America and was let in by the very process Trump has called "chain migration"

The 16-year-old Friedrich Trump, who spoke little English, would not have hopped on a ship and came to America without a family member already in place to help him. In 1885, when Friedrich immigrated, he joined his sister Katherine, who “had immigrated to New York a year earlier,” according to Gwenda Blair.

After building up his finances, Friedrich went back to Germany and fell in love with Elizabeth Christ, who eventually became Donald Trump’s grandmother. Elizabeth Christ Trump immigrated to America with Friedrich and one of their children was Fred Trump, Donald Trump’s father. Ironically, Blair points out, Donald Trump's grandmother did not assimilate well to America and she and her husband returned to Germany but could not stay because Friedrich Trump had not performed compulsory military service.[/qu

The same pattern of an earlier family member helping another close relative can be seen with Donald Trump’s mother, Mary Anne MacLeod, who many people may be surprised to learn was an immigrant. Mary Anne MacLeod’s sister was married and lived in Queens. That allowed Mary Anne to immigrate to America from Scotland in 1930 as an 18-year-old with few skills with the help of her sister, who she lived with upon arrival, according to Blair. In 1936, Mary Anne attended a party with her sister and met Fred Trump. The couple married and had children, including a son named Donald Trump.

b) Melania basically got her visa on the grounds that she was a valuable expert, when she was a model.

Reports that the first lady, Melania Trump, received an immigrant visa reserved for “individuals with extraordinary ability” in 2001, when she was a model, have thrust the EB-1 visa program into the spotlight. The news, first reported by The Washington Post, raised questions about whether Mrs. Trump had truly qualified for the visa.

But several immigration lawyers rebuffed those questions, saying the requirements for the EB-1 immigrant visa leave far more room for interpretation than its nickname and its best-and-brightest reputation suggest.

While the program may be the pinnacle of the merit-based immigration policies supported by critics of the visa lottery and family-based migration — indeed, by President Trump himself — the decision of what constitutes merit, while based on established criteria, is ultimately subjective and often surprising.

“Recipients are supposed to be the best of the best,” said Rita Sostrin, a Los Angeles-based lawyer who has written extensively about EB-1s, “but meeting the criteria is no guarantee. An adjudication officer makes a judgment call.”

The “extraordinary ability” immigrant visa category is one of the few visas for which an applicant does not require an employer or family sponsor. Only 5,530 people received a green card through that program in the fiscal year that ended in September 2016, the latest for which data is available, out of some one million issued. In 2001, when Mrs. Trump got hers, even fewer were granted.

Note the visa was from 2001. Trump met Melania in 1998 and started dating.

Trump would have kicked out his own grandfather and a mistress who would eventually become his wife.

[Edge-]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/18/polit...ast/index.html

In a video posted by his campaign in early December, former President Trump blasted President Joe Biden and “his henchmen” for allegedly trampling on the First Amendment rights of Douglass Mackey, a longtime supporter of the former president who ran an anonymous, notorious Twitter account in 2016. Trump accused Biden of seeking to jail Mackey for “sharing a joking meme about Hillary Clinton several years ago. Nobody ever heard of anything like that.”

While the former president criticized the legal action taken against Mackey, Trump Jr. lauded the content featured on Mackey’s Twitter feed. He praised Mackey on his December 7 podcast as “maybe my favorite Twitter account of all time” and said the Biden administration wanted the former influencer in prison.

Donald and his shitty elder son apparently went all in on defending this Mackey guy.

Mackey, however, was under federal investigation for conspiracy to suppress votes in the 2016 presidential election during Trump’s administration. Mackey was charged seven days after Biden took office and convicted earlier this year. He was sentenced to seven months in prison but is currently out pending an appeal of his case.

Prosecutors said Mackey, 34, targeted Black voters on Twitter with a tweet meant to look like a campaign advertisement that falsely claimed they could vote for Clinton through text messages during the 2016 election.

Mackey’s Twitter account at the time featured a slew of hateful content and he was ranked as 107th in a list of “election influencers” in the runup to the 2016 election, according to an analysis conducted by the MIT Media Lab.

In a statement to CNN, an attorney for Mackey said the tweets don’t reflect his client’s current views, and that Mackey now regrets the tone and substance of his posts.

“However, he does not regret using his anonymous account to promote conservative political ideas or then-candidate Donald Trump,” attorney James Lawrence said in the statement. “Doug is grateful that former President Trump, his son, and thousands across the political spectrum can see through these smears and distractions and recognize that his case is about protecting the First Amendment rights of all Americans.”

Uh huh.

On Twitter, Mackey had regularly shared racist caricatures of people of color, amplified demeaning stereotypes and belittled entire groups with racial slurs. He used the N-word in multiple posts, and he described Black people as “feral.” Antisemitism was another popular theme for him, and he routinely shared memes reminiscent of Nazi propaganda.

One post, for example, included a comment about decorating a cake with a Jewish slur, a reference to putting Jews in gas chambers and praise for Hitler. In another post, he hinted at retribution for Jewish Americans if Trump won presidency in 2016.

“The jews fear that Donald Trump is Hitler because they know that they have done great evil in America. They fear justice will be done,” he wrote in December 2015.

Again, when Nazis really like someone, I'm instantly inclined to dislike that person that the Nazis like. Especially when that person also talks like a Nazi.

- - - Updated - - -

https://themessenger.com/politics/tr...-federal-court

Mark Meadows has heard back from the federal court of appeals: He's still going to stand trial in Georgia for racketeering and his case will not be moved to federal court.

I believe this is at least the third time that the courts of ruled to this effect, let's see how many more times he wants to try to see if he'll get a different answer.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...ion-rcna130329

Rudy is getting sued in civil court. Again.

Days after being awarded $148 million in damages against Rudy Giuliani in a defamation suit, two former Georgia election workers have filed a new lawsuit against the former Trump lawyer over remarks he made about them immediately following Friday's verdict.

The new suit by Ruby Freeman and Wandrea “Shaye” Moss seeks a court order permanently barring Giuliani "from persisting in his defamatory campaign" against the mother and daughter pair, arguing that he's continued to falsely accuse them of committing election fraud even after a federal jury handed down last week's verdict in Washington, D.C.

The lawsuit notes that Giuliani told reporters after the trial that his long-debunked allegations "were supportable and are supportable today." He also told Newsmax that "he was in possession of video evidence demonstrating the truth of his allegations."

In Monday's filing, attorneys for Freeman and Moss said they'd asked for Giuliani to stop smearing their clients, and said he would not.

Seems pretty reasonable: You've been found liable for defamation and owe $150M, you should probably stop repeating the defamatory statements.

Rudy hit bedrock and called in the heavy duty driller, there seems like there may be no bottom for "America's Mayor".

- - - Updated - - -

https://themessenger.com/politics/tr...direct-verdict

A day for legal losers, eh?

For at least the fifth time, former President Donald Trump on Monday lost an attempt to dismiss his civil fraud case through a maneuver seeking a directed verdict in his favor.

In tossing Trump's latest challenge, Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron reminded the former president that "a lie is still a lie."

"At least five times during the recently concluded ten-and-a-half-week trial of this matter, defendants moved for a directed verdict," Engoron wrote in a three-page ruling. "The first such time was at the close of plaintiff's case, which is when defendants normally move for such relief. This court took that motion, and most of the others, under advisement. It denied two of them on the spot."

Unsurprisingly, his apparent fifth attempt to dismiss the case resulted in failure just like the first four attempts.

"Valuations, as elucidated ad nauseum in this trial, can be based on different criteria analyzed in different ways," the ruling states. "But a lie is still a lie. Valuing occupied residences as if vacant, valuing restricted land as if unrestricted, valuing an apartment as if it were triple its actual size, valuing property many times the amount of concealed appraisals, valuing planned buildings as if completed and ready to rent, valuing golf courses with brand premium while claiming not to, and valuing restricted funds as cash, are not subjective differences of opinion, they are misstatements at best and fraud at worst."

But Donald had experts!

"Bartov is a tenured professor, but all that his testimony proves is that for a million or so dollars, some experts will say whatever you want them to say," Engoron wrote.

A research professor at New York University's Stern School of Business, Bartov conceded that he billed nearly $877,500 to Trump for his testimony, and he said that money came from the Trump Organization and Save America PAC, the former president's primary fundraising vehicle.

Experts paid nearly a million dollars by his company to say what he wants them to say because they want to retire too, yo.

[Gorsameth]

I'm going to assume you meant the majority of voters in the GOP primaries because according to the last two presidential races the majority of voters overall aren't buying his bullshit.

Majority of Republican voters I meant, yes currently fortunately its 'only' ~47% of all voters who are...

[cubby]

CNN has a breakdown:

Here's the breakdown:
$16,171,000 to Ruby Freeman for defamation.
$16,998,000 to Shaye Moss for defamation.
$20 million to Freeman for emotional distress.
$20 million to Moss for emotional distress.
$75 million in punitive damages to both plaintiffs.

Thrall Kaioken Go'El, that's a lot of punative damages. Yes, it'll be appealled, but holy shit, you can't send a much clearer message than this.
@cubby you might want to see this!

- - - Updated - - -

I have more from Giuliani's lawyer.



I do like that earnest plea at the end. "Please don't find my client liable for his highly partisan crimes, because that would be partisan."

This is fantastic.

[Vankrys]

FOX News defends Trump's Nazi-esque language by saying "yes, what he said was full of hate, but you have to understand--"

Why is it that for the past 8 years, every time Trump opens his mouth, there's someone right after going "What the president really meant to say is..."

As the saying goes, when they tell us who they are, believe them.

[Gelannerai]

Why is it that for the past 8 years, every time Trump opens his mouth, there's someone right after going "What the president really meant to say is..."

As the saying goes, when they tell us who they are, believe them.

Yeah, always good for a laugh when GOP voters tell you they like Trump/Bannon/Cruz/Gaetz/Greene/shit-sandwich because they “tell it like it is,” but then immediately have to act as a Fascist-to-English translator to try to cover for the aforementioned trash.

[Gabriel]

If Trump wins I'll be expecting all the 2A nutters to actually keep their word about opposing tyranny.

[Twdft]

If Trump wins I'll be expecting all the 2A nutters to actually keep their word about opposing tyranny.

It's only 1 day, not much they can do about it due to travel time.

[zorkuus]

If Trump wins I'll be expecting all the 2A nutters to actually keep their word about opposing tyranny.

I'm pretty sure that if the dictator-to-be told them to hand over their guns (and which dictator wouldn't?), these cultists would do it gladly.

[Gabriel]

I'm pretty sure that if the dictator-to-be told them to hand over their guns (and which dictator wouldn't?), these cultists would do it gladly.

Not so sure about that. The gun nutters support Trump because they think there is a chance that he will let them shoot the gays and the trans and the blacks, but if Trump came after their guns they would first bluescreen and then revolt against him.

[Templar 331]

Not so sure about that. The gun nutters support Trump because they think there is a chance that he will let them shoot the gays and the trans and the blacks, but if Trump came after their guns they would first bluescreen and then revolt against him.

I feel like he wouldn't take their guns but ask them to give him their guns. And a lot of them would "blue screen" (lol, very accurate) but there would be some that would give them up if it meant they were hurting certain people.

"Our ICE agents, very fine, very nice agents, who love this country, need your help! They don't have guns! Biden, the most worst businessman ever, who can't even get his kids into a successful business, who doesn't know how to balance the budget, doesn't have enough money to stop the illegals!"

[Edge-]

https://themessenger.com/politics/tr...otice-withdraw

Attorneys for Trevian Kutti, one of Donald Trump's co-defendants in the Georgia election racketeering case, filed notice on Monday night they no longer intend to represent the embattled publicist who has gained notoriety for her outlandish public statements.

The three-page notice provides no rationale for her Chicago and Atlanta-based lawyers seeking to jump ship. Reached by phone, Darryl Cohen, Kutti’s Atlanta-based attorney, said that “in order to have a good lawyer-client relationship, the client has to listen, the client has to be on board and you have to be paid.”

“All these things have to happen,” Cohen added. “I'm not saying any of those things did or didn't happen, but you can extrapolate.”

Cohen, insisting he was speaking generically, continued: “This case is so unusual and so high profile with everybody looking at it under a microscope, that you've got to be very careful as to what you say because you never know who's coming after you.”

Kutti’s Chicago-based lawyers did not immediately respond to requests for comment. Kutti also did not immediately respond to an emailed request for comment or a message on Instagram.

A one-time publicist for Ye, the rapper and singer-songwriter formerly known as Kanye West, Kutti faces racketeering and witness intimidation charges in Fulton County. She has pleaded not guilty and is free on a $75,000 bond.

However, her bond agreement may be in peril, following her making statements on Instagram live that appeared to threaten Fulton County election worker Ruby Freeman.

"There's a woman sitting somewhere who knows this whole thing is a lie. Who knows I never did anything to her. Who knows I never. Who knows she begged me for help. There's a woman sitting somewhere who knows that I'm going to f**k her whole life up when this is done," Kutti said in the Instagram Live video.

Kutti has also posted claims on social media that she would be tapped to serve as Trump’s press secretary were he to be elected in 2024.

One of her most recent posts on Instagram from Monday appeared to show her with Jacob Chansley, otherwise known as the QAnon shaman who served jail time for his participation in the Jan. 6 Capitol Riot, flipping off the camera. The photo was seemingly taken at the America First Fest, a MAGA-centric convention taking place in Phoenix, AZ and organized by Turning Point USA, a conservative advocacy nonprofit.

Gee, it's no wonder that lawyers don't want to work with MAGA folks.

They don't listen to legal advice and frequently specifically do the opposite of what they were advised by their lawyers to do. Shame they'll end up with dogshit quality lawyers because anyone remotely competent won't want to deal with nightmare clients. Not really, though, these people are genuinely awful and deserve to fuck themselves over with their own voluntary behavior.

[Breccia]

“in order to have a good lawyer-client relationship, the client has to listen, the client has to be on board and you have to be paid.”

I feel like, if we were to 80's-movie-montage this entire Trump ShitShow thread, this would be the chorus of the rock balladn playing over it.

[Gabriel]

I feel like he wouldn't take their guns but ask them to give him their guns. And a lot of them would "blue screen" (lol, very accurate) but there would be some that would give them up if it meant they were hurting certain people.

"Our ICE agents, very fine, very nice agents, who love this country, need your help! They don't have guns! Biden, the most worst businessman ever, who can't even get his kids into a successful business, who doesn't know how to balance the budget, doesn't have enough money to stop the illegals!"

I'm 100% sure that 99% of gun nutters support Trump only as long as he doesn't step on their right to own and fingerfuck firearms.

The moment that Trump goes on tape calling for the rednecks to disarm is the moment he will get a bullet to the head.

Like... They might hate the left and the minorities, but they love their guns more.

[Lenonis]

Seems pretty reasonable: You've been found liable for defamation and owe $150M, you should probably stop repeating the defamatory statements.

I truly don't understand what is going on with Rudy, and I'm starting to seriously consider that there is something legit wrong with him that isn't just "Hi I'm in a cult."

Because this is pretty much nuts - for him to get slapped with a judgement I have no doubt he can't pay and then IMMEDIATELY turn around and say "yeah I meant it all and I'll say it again" is insane.

[Kaleredar]

I'm pretty sure that if the dictator-to-be told them to hand over their guns (and which dictator wouldn't?), these cultists would do it gladly.

I doubt it. I remember very early on in trump’s presidency that he was rolling the idea around about assault weapons bans. It didn’t go very far and the right wing dragged him for considering it.

These 2A nutters having guns doesnt affect trump’s goals in any particular way: self-enrichment. And even if they fall on hard economic times while trump and his toadies are living large, they’ve been conditioned to blame the minorities for their plight, instead of the rich people with money.

[shimerra]

I truly don't understand what is going on with Rudy, and I'm starting to seriously consider that there is something legit wrong with him that isn't just "Hi I'm in a cult."

Because this is pretty much nuts - for him to get slapped with a judgement I have no doubt he can't pay and then IMMEDIATELY turn around and say "yeah I meant it all and I'll say it again" is insane.

At this point only two things make sense. He has dementia or some sort of age related degenerative mental disease or he realizes he is so thoroughly screwed either way he might as well act out even harder because burning at a million and one degrees is basically the same as a million degrees.

[Edge-]

I truly don't understand what is going on with Rudy, and I'm starting to seriously consider that there is something legit wrong with him that isn't just "Hi I'm in a cult."

Because this is pretty much nuts - for him to get slapped with a judgement I have no doubt he can't pay and then IMMEDIATELY turn around and say "yeah I meant it all and I'll say it again" is insane.

There are a group of conservatives who genuinely seem to believe if you can create your own reality through force of will alone, and if they repeat the lies that form the foundation of their reality enough then they'll be true.