Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Elegiac]

Not necessarily. Reagan won the popular vote both times and he was basically proto-Trump.

You're correct in that a popular vote wouldn't preclude figures like Trump from coming to office; and it isn't the point anyway since the reason for a popular vote is one of fairness rather than making liberalism undefeatable or whatever.

But I don't agree with calling Reagan a proto-Trump for similar reasons that Malkiah points out - while many of the changes leading to America's present state of political and economic paralysis occurred during his presidency, his conduct while in office was within the 'normal' bounds for American federal policy. The proto-Trump in the sense of a deeply unpleasant and highly corrupt individual that lies and cheats their way to success was actually Nixon.

Indeed, I'd argue Nixon's legacy is just as damaging as the specter of fascism Trump raised because Watergate was one of the key points in the 1970s that helped destroy America's trust in its public institutions and facilitate the privatization of its civil society.

[Gestopft]

Doesn't the relevant act say you don't have to be convicted for it to apply though?

It says "...shall have engaged in insurrection..."

So it doesn't specify a conviction, but it's not unreasonable to assert that a conviction or some other very high standard of proof would be necessary to prove that the disqualified engaged in said activity

[ringpriest]

It says "...shall have engaged in insurrection..."

So it doesn't specify a conviction, but it's not unreasonable to assert that a conviction or some other very high standard of proof would be necessary to prove that the disqualified engaged in said activity

The Congress and President President Biden labeled it an insurrection back in 2021, and a Congressional Report (among many other things) directly linked to Donald Trump to the planning of said insurrection. The United States government, and all its subsidiary sub-entities take far more aggressive actions on far less evidence every day without a peep from the GOP (or most of the public in general).

The only reasons kicking Trump off the ballot is controversial is that Republicans hate being held to account for their actions (it's the core of their whole political philosophy, insofar as they have one), and because those same Republicans are done with the Constitution, the law, and elections. The only thing that keeps them even pretending to play along is that they're all cowards, and they're afraid that a coup won't succeed.

[Poopymonster]

The Congress and President President Biden labeled it an insurrection back in 2021, and a Congressional Report (among many other things) directly linked to Donald Trump to the planning of said insurrection. The United States government, and all its subsidiary sub-entities take far more aggressive actions on far less evidence every day without a peep from the GOP (or most of the public in general).

The only reasons kicking Trump off the ballot is controversial is that Republicans hate being held to account for their actions (it's the core of their whole political philosophy, insofar as they have one), and because those same Republicans are done with the Constitution, the law, and elections. The only thing that keeps them even pretending to play along is that they're all cowards, and they're afraid that a coup won't succeed.

I can see a reply already.
It's there in the distance.
It's a straw man walking a red herring up a slipper slope.

[CastletonSnob]

Trump will be allowed to stay on the ballot in California.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...he-2024-ballot

Let's be real, though, there's a better chance of Jeffrey Dahmer becoming a vegetarian than there is of Trump winning California.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Things I don't like and never liked about Biden. He's not very liberal or left, or at least politically through out his career he has never been. If I had my preference I would pick Hillary then Bernie, and likely Bernie over Hillary on Policy.

Hillary could be argued as more Center but she is far more to the left than Biden. As for Bernie I would say I match 99% with his policies, the problem is for a life time of service and the good will I believe he has earned despite where I seriously disagree with him. I DO NOT think his policies for the most part have a snow balls chance in hell of ever becoming policy.

And any policy that someone like Bernie could get like healthcare for all, even if a MIRACLE happened and it was voted on. There are enough who would hate it that it would be sabotaged at every turn like with the Affordable Care Act A.K.A Obamacare.

So going back to Biden as opposed to Trump, Biden for as OLD as some claim he knows what he is doing and so far has made the best out of the bad situation put on his shoulders. He gets things done, not to the degree I would like say with Hillary, or Bernie but moving forward even if it slow is better then nothing at all or going backwards, which is what Trump represented.

OT: As for Trump, I'm a Democrat so my Preference is for a Democrat, however if Bush was running against Trump, I would vote Bush, or Christie, or YES even DeSantis. Over Trump. If it came down to it I would Vote Biden in a Coma vs Trump.

But it's worth mentioning I think whether you LIKE or DISLIKE anyone personally is a bad reason to decide to vote for them. I HATE TRUMP!


Despite my dislike for this man also as a human being, the Reason he is completely unacceptable has very little to do with what he has SAID, and more to do with his every action and character as a man, a business man, and Representative.


So What are some reasons for ME to Vote for Trump though?

1. Lower Taxes.
2. He has a Tough on Crime approach at least that is what he says.
3. Strong boarder Control. (I don't mean the stupid wall.)


Reasons not to vote for Trump.

1. He has ZERO actual values, and I do mean NONE! This man has on more then a few occasions talked about having sex with his daughter. His own WIFE, HIS WIFE couldn't genuinely come up on her own with ANYTHING to say in terms of LOVE or actual value she had for her husband on the very day he got the Republican Nomination.


2. He is the singular biggest reason Russia has been emboldened, This fucking Moron literally hamstrung out National Defenses and NATO or Putin, who as a former KGB lead a country who was actively Hostile towards the U.S. and almost went to Nuclear war.


3. He has in my opinion KILLED over a MILLION U.S Citizens because of his arrogance and stupidity, and Jealousy of a man and men before him who put measures in place that could have prevented or seriously limited the Impact of Covid- 19

"Well he made a mistake, He's New Presidents make mistakes" Yeah he fucking Compounded that mistake by fucking doing almost NOTHING WHEN he finally was told by his own HANDPICKED EXPERTS and almost every effort along the way didn't know enough to know he didn't know enough, and was advocating bullshit like light therapy and bleach to treat Covid, While an Active Pandemic was happening.

4. His Tax initiatives are a HUGE reason for Inflations NOT stimulus checks or Covid, those things had an impact, but if the tax cuts he implemented had been in place, we wouldn't be nearly as in the RED as we are now.


So NO, my reasons for not voting for Trump has ZERO to do with MEAN things or stupid things he said on Twitter. He is an abject Failure IN EVERY capacity as a human being and more importantly as any kind of representative.




That however dos NOT mean I worship Biden, or that HE is above the law or that I don't seriously disagree with him.


But there would have to be a viable option besides for him and Robert Kennedy Jr who has literally done Nothing, and who's entire family I personally view him admiration, and suspicion. Isn't especially qualified over Biden because he panders to the insane.


I do think that Trump FFS will get the Republican Nomination, but I'm hoping he doesn't the News media is pumping this moron up though, because for them he means Drama and Drama = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ over any journalistic integrity.

[Ivanstone]

So What are some reasons for ME to Vote for Trump though?

1. Lower Taxes.
2. He has a Tough on Crime approach at least that is what he says.
3. Strong boarder Control. (I don't mean the stupid wall.)

He only lowered taxes for the wealthy. He increased it for everyone else.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. He is crime. Also tough on crime doesn't work.
Half-assed measures that don't address any problems isn't border control.

[Doctor Amadeus]

He only lowered taxes for the wealthy. He increased it for everyone else.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. He is crime. Also tough on crime doesn't work.
Half-assed measures that don't address any problems isn't border control.

He lowered federal tax for everyone across the board, I think it's well argued that the wealthy benefited the mostly. As far as I'll take tough on crime over what we have now, as I said I agree with LAW and Order.

As for the border specifically aside from the wall, I was in agreement with what he had done there.

[CastletonSnob]

How fucked would Trump be if he were disqualified from the primary ballot in Georgia or Pennsylvania?

[Muzjhath]

He lowered federal tax for everyone across the board, I think it's well argued that the wealthy benefited the mostly. As far as I'll take tough on crime over what we have now, as I said I agree with LAW and Order.

As for the border specifically aside from the wall, I was in agreement with what he had done there.

The lowered rate for people earning less than X amount a year (can't remember specifics) ended. The other was permanent.

[Dontrike]

1. Lower Taxes.
2. He has a Tough on Crime approach at least that is what he says.
3. Strong boarder Control. (I don't mean the stupid wall.)

1. Which added tons to the debt for no reason, and it especially helped the rich more than anything.
2. Is he tough on crime when he and his family commit crimes constantly? Also "it's what he says" sort of defeats that argument.
3. I wouldn't call putting people in concentration camps and losing hundreds of children and scarring them for their entire lives "border control."

[Gorsameth]

He lowered federal tax for everyone across the board, I think it's well argued that the wealthy benefited the mostly. As far as I'll take tough on crime over what we have now, as I said I agree with LAW and Order.

As for the border specifically aside from the wall, I was in agreement with what he had done there.

No.

It was a tax cut for everyone that turns into a tax increase for everyone except the rich and corporations , who kept their tax cut, at the end of 2025 in order to keep its deficit under 1.5 trillion over 10 years. A requirement for reconciliation which was used to pass it.


You got scammed and supported what will actually a tax increase for you.

[Doctor Amadeus]

1. Which added tons to the debt for no reason, and it especially helped the rich more than anything.

Yes collectively, I was talking about individually and short term, over all it contributed to a fuck ton of poverty also, but I was meaning this more as an objective point in his favor in terms of those that it applied to individually and short term

2. Is he tough on crime when he and his family commit crimes constantly? Also "it's what he says" sort of defeats that argument.

Yes 100%, I think Trump has broken just about every law I can think we have short of murder.

3. I wouldn't call putting people in concentration camps and losing hundreds of children and scarring them for their entire lives "border control."

I support Trump on borer Control, on this one I outside of the dumbass wall idea, I won't put on his shoulders, EVERY nation accounts for and controls their borders, right or wrong that is a reality and good policy.

Children crossing the border is a reality, however dealing with that is what border enforcement is for, and it is an important policy.


I won't disagree about the ills, nor would I vilify anyone migrating for opportunity, but that being said, those who are also legal residence, also have rights. The system should be improved, but there aren't any systems we are perfect with, but as I said short of the wall I support Trump on this.

- - - Updated - - -

No.

It was a tax cut for everyone that turns into a tax increase for everyone except the rich and corporations , who kept their tax cut, at the end of 2025 in order to keep its deficit under 1.5 trillion over 10 years. A requirement for reconciliation which was used to pass it.


You got scammed and supported what will actually a tax increase for you.

Well if you mean in terms of increased poverty, and either the loss of local services, unless local measures are put in place, sure. I am not of the mind the tax cuts were needed or a good idea.


However from another perspective, more money in peoples pockets for them to individually or as a group decide their needs has it's appeal. It will widely lead to more income inequality as well.

But then the question becomes where do you stand and at what point with your vote do you decide what is best for you and yours. In the U.S there is Federal and State Taxes, but those aren't the only sources of revenue.

Cities, Towns, Private equity and Home Owners Associations, not always explicitly taxes, but those are methods of dealing with things like community resources.



Given a specific example, less taxes, less money for policing, police get federal dollars but they also get funds from other places. Some initiatives have been heavy to defund police. Well while that happens, some other communities might increase police, or in many cases develop HOA, or private security on top of police, unless they simply provide for funding for more police or extra police in some cities, towns etc.

The same way with schools or any other resources.


Again tax cuts were stupid IN MY OPINION, BUT


Many people especially Trump appeals to whether they are honest about it or not, taking money out of things like Federal Income or Taxes of the like can mean more money for what I said.


Right now, in my opinion I think this political election season based on what I am seeing and what I have experienced, it's more about dividing, breaking down the Union as it were Target the Fed, IRS, Department of Education, FBI, Etc even civil laws.

If some few believe it can't work for everyone, then maybe everyone pulls back and decides what is best for them, the fracturing, works on appealing to even people who extremally disagree, who all agree with what I am saying.

It's a campaign strategy and a divide, that's appealing to many.

[Gorsameth]

so now you think the tax cuts (there were no tax cuts, but a tax increase unless you plan to die in the next 2 years) are stupid. But you listed tax cuts as a reason why YOU vote for Trump.
Does that make you stupid?

So What are some reasons for ME to Vote for Trump though?

1. Lower Taxes.

[Edge-]

Honestly shocked anyone is speaking positively about the 2017 Republican tax cut that remains historically unpopular...but here we are.

[Captain N]

Honestly shocked anyone is speaking positively about the 2017 Republican tax cut that remains historically unpopular...but here we are.

Because it was done to appeal to those who never bothered to look into it other than "Hey I didn't pay that much this year!" and won't until 2025 when "Why did my taxes go up?! Must be that fucking Biden!!" becomes a thing. Remember as Trump said -- He loves the poorly educated.

[Doctor Amadeus]

so now you think the tax cuts (there were no tax cuts, but a tax increase unless you plan to die in the next 2 years) are stupid. But you listed tax cuts as a reason why YOU vote for Trump.
Does that make you stupid?

I never voted for him and a this tax cut, but depending one where one stands I can see the benefits. I would love to pay less taxes, I would love to pay no taxes unless it goes towards what I'd support. But tax cuts like tax increases need to make sense.

[Gorsameth]

I never voted for him and a this tax cut, but depending one where one stands I can see the benefits. I would love to pay less taxes, I would love to pay no taxes unless it goes towards what I'd support. But tax cuts like tax increases need to make sense.

Your unwillingness to accept you were duped is why it will keep happening. You hear only what you want to hear and stick your fingers in your ears whenever someone challenges your views.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Your unwillingness to accept you were duped is why it will keep happening. You hear only what you want to hear and stick your fingers in your ears whenever someone challenges your views.

What’s the challenge here. I said what I felt was appealing about Trump. I didn’t say I was entirely sold. I also didn’t vote for him.

So how was I duped?

[Endus]

What’s the challenge here. I said what I felt was appealing about Trump. I didn’t say I was entirely sold. I also didn’t vote for him.

So how was I duped?

You presented Trump's tax raise as if it were appealing to you, despite it only being permanent for corporations and the super-rich.

That you didn't understand it was passed into law as a short-term temporary piece of bait and made things worse in the long term is proof you were duped. How you completely failed to understand this, we have no idea.

It's like saying "I thought Three-Card Monte was a simple, honest game, I just lost money at it. How was I duped?"

You seriously don't realize you were duped? C'mon.