1. #87921
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    He lowered federal tax for everyone across the board, I think it's well argued that the wealthy benefited the mostly. As far as I'll take tough on crime over what we have now, as I said I agree with LAW and Order.

    As for the border specifically aside from the wall, I was in agreement with what he had done there.
    The lowered rate for people earning less than X amount a year (can't remember specifics) ended. The other was permanent.
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  2. #87922
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    1. Lower Taxes.
    2. He has a Tough on Crime approach at least that is what he says.
    3. Strong boarder Control. (I don't mean the stupid wall.)
    1. Which added tons to the debt for no reason, and it especially helped the rich more than anything.
    2. Is he tough on crime when he and his family commit crimes constantly? Also "it's what he says" sort of defeats that argument.
    3. I wouldn't call putting people in concentration camps and losing hundreds of children and scarring them for their entire lives "border control."

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  3. #87923
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    He lowered federal tax for everyone across the board, I think it's well argued that the wealthy benefited the mostly. As far as I'll take tough on crime over what we have now, as I said I agree with LAW and Order.

    As for the border specifically aside from the wall, I was in agreement with what he had done there.
    No.

    It was a tax cut for everyone that turns into a tax increase for everyone except the rich and corporations , who kept their tax cut, at the end of 2025 in order to keep its deficit under 1.5 trillion over 10 years. A requirement for reconciliation which was used to pass it.


    You got scammed and supported what will actually a tax increase for you.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  4. #87924
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    1. Which added tons to the debt for no reason, and it especially helped the rich more than anything.
    Yes collectively, I was talking about individually and short term, over all it contributed to a fuck ton of poverty also, but I was meaning this more as an objective point in his favor in terms of those that it applied to individually and short term
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    2. Is he tough on crime when he and his family commit crimes constantly? Also "it's what he says" sort of defeats that argument.
    Yes 100%, I think Trump has broken just about every law I can think we have short of murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    3. I wouldn't call putting people in concentration camps and losing hundreds of children and scarring them for their entire lives "border control."
    I support Trump on borer Control, on this one I outside of the dumbass wall idea, I won't put on his shoulders, EVERY nation accounts for and controls their borders, right or wrong that is a reality and good policy.

    Children crossing the border is a reality, however dealing with that is what border enforcement is for, and it is an important policy.


    I won't disagree about the ills, nor would I vilify anyone migrating for opportunity, but that being said, those who are also legal residence, also have rights. The system should be improved, but there aren't any systems we are perfect with, but as I said short of the wall I support Trump on this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    No.

    It was a tax cut for everyone that turns into a tax increase for everyone except the rich and corporations , who kept their tax cut, at the end of 2025 in order to keep its deficit under 1.5 trillion over 10 years. A requirement for reconciliation which was used to pass it.


    You got scammed and supported what will actually a tax increase for you.
    Well if you mean in terms of increased poverty, and either the loss of local services, unless local measures are put in place, sure. I am not of the mind the tax cuts were needed or a good idea.


    However from another perspective, more money in peoples pockets for them to individually or as a group decide their needs has it's appeal. It will widely lead to more income inequality as well.

    But then the question becomes where do you stand and at what point with your vote do you decide what is best for you and yours. In the U.S there is Federal and State Taxes, but those aren't the only sources of revenue.

    Cities, Towns, Private equity and Home Owners Associations, not always explicitly taxes, but those are methods of dealing with things like community resources.



    Given a specific example, less taxes, less money for policing, police get federal dollars but they also get funds from other places. Some initiatives have been heavy to defund police. Well while that happens, some other communities might increase police, or in many cases develop HOA, or private security on top of police, unless they simply provide for funding for more police or extra police in some cities, towns etc.

    The same way with schools or any other resources.


    Again tax cuts were stupid IN MY OPINION, BUT


    Many people especially Trump appeals to whether they are honest about it or not, taking money out of things like Federal Income or Taxes of the like can mean more money for what I said.


    Right now, in my opinion I think this political election season based on what I am seeing and what I have experienced, it's more about dividing, breaking down the Union as it were Target the Fed, IRS, Department of Education, FBI, Etc even civil laws.

    If some few believe it can't work for everyone, then maybe everyone pulls back and decides what is best for them, the fracturing, works on appealing to even people who extremally disagree, who all agree with what I am saying.

    It's a campaign strategy and a divide, that's appealing to many.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  5. #87925
    so now you think the tax cuts (there were no tax cuts, but a tax increase unless you plan to die in the next 2 years) are stupid. But you listed tax cuts as a reason why YOU vote for Trump.
    Does that make you stupid?
    So What are some reasons for ME to Vote for Trump though?

    1. Lower Taxes.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  6. #87926
    Honestly shocked anyone is speaking positively about the 2017 Republican tax cut that remains historically unpopular...but here we are.

  7. #87927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Honestly shocked anyone is speaking positively about the 2017 Republican tax cut that remains historically unpopular...but here we are.
    Because it was done to appeal to those who never bothered to look into it other than "Hey I didn't pay that much this year!" and won't until 2025 when "Why did my taxes go up?! Must be that fucking Biden!!" becomes a thing. Remember as Trump said -- He loves the poorly educated.
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

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  8. #87928
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    so now you think the tax cuts (there were no tax cuts, but a tax increase unless you plan to die in the next 2 years) are stupid. But you listed tax cuts as a reason why YOU vote for Trump.
    Does that make you stupid?
    I never voted for him and a this tax cut, but depending one where one stands I can see the benefits. I would love to pay less taxes, I would love to pay no taxes unless it goes towards what I'd support. But tax cuts like tax increases need to make sense.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  9. #87929
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    I never voted for him and a this tax cut, but depending one where one stands I can see the benefits. I would love to pay less taxes, I would love to pay no taxes unless it goes towards what I'd support. But tax cuts like tax increases need to make sense.
    Your unwillingness to accept you were duped is why it will keep happening. You hear only what you want to hear and stick your fingers in your ears whenever someone challenges your views.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  10. #87930
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Your unwillingness to accept you were duped is why it will keep happening. You hear only what you want to hear and stick your fingers in your ears whenever someone challenges your views.
    What’s the challenge here. I said what I felt was appealing about Trump. I didn’t say I was entirely sold. I also didn’t vote for him.

    So how was I duped?
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  11. #87931
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    What’s the challenge here. I said what I felt was appealing about Trump. I didn’t say I was entirely sold. I also didn’t vote for him.

    So how was I duped?
    You presented Trump's tax raise as if it were appealing to you, despite it only being permanent for corporations and the super-rich.

    That you didn't understand it was passed into law as a short-term temporary piece of bait and made things worse in the long term is proof you were duped. How you completely failed to understand this, we have no idea.

    It's like saying "I thought Three-Card Monte was a simple, honest game, I just lost money at it. How was I duped?"

    You seriously don't realize you were duped? C'mon.
    Last edited by Endus; 2023-12-30 at 09:06 PM.


  12. #87932
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You presented Trump's tax raise as if it were appealing to you, despite it only being permanent for corporations and the super-rich.

    That you didn't understand it was passed into law as a short-term temporary piece of bait and made things worse in the long term is proof you were duped. How you completely failed to understand this, we have no idea.

    It's like saying "I thought Three-Card Monte was a simple, honest game, I just lost money at it. How was I duped?"

    You seriously don't realize you were duped? C'mon.
    I wasn’t duped. I wasn’t for it. That said it doesn’t mean some weren’t. As tax cuts go in general I can see many wanting more than less.

    Going forward in terms of appeal more deeper taxes being cut I can see being an appeal.

    As for personally Trump tax cuts helped me and in the long and short term.

    I still didn’t and don’t support it in general, because from him it’s thoughtless I do see it as overall destructive overall. And while it did help save me money and many I know. It was obviously nothing compared to who he meant it for.

    So no I wasn’t duped.


    My entire point was about Trump and the trend going forward. Also statements from him about deeper tax cuts again if he’s elected along with the GOPs mission.

    Cut government spending, social security, affordable care act, department of education’s etc
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  13. #87933
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    I wasn’t duped. I wasn’t for it. That said it doesn’t mean some weren’t. As tax cuts go in general I can see many wanting more than less.

    Going forward in terms of appeal more deeper taxes being cut I can see being an appeal.

    As for personally Trump tax cuts helped me and in the long and short term.

    I still didn’t and don’t support it in general, because from him it’s thoughtless I do see it as overall destructive overall. And while it did help save me money and many I know. It was obviously nothing compared to who he meant it for.

    So no I wasn’t duped.


    My entire point was about Trump and the trend going forward. Also statements from him about deeper tax cuts again if he’s elected along with the GOPs mission.

    Cut government spending, social security, affordable care act, department of education’s etc
    "I wasn't duped, I'm just believing that the guy that said he'd cut taxes last time and didn't totally means it when he says he'll cut taxes this time".

    That's the thing about marks, they'll jump through hoops to convince themselves they're too smart to be fooled.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
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    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  14. #87934
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    "I wasn't duped, I'm just believing that the guy that said he'd cut taxes last time and didn't totally means it when he says he'll cut taxes this time".

    That's the thing about marks, they'll jump through hoops to convince themselves they're too smart to be fooled.
    Despite not advocating nor voting for Trump or those that passed his tax cuts.

    I did personally benefit as did the business I own. Along with others who Trump and the GOP said they’d do more for.

    My initial point was about Trump going forward who I’m again not voting for.

    That said should he get elected tax cuts would be 1 of the 3 good things about it.

    Maybe he’ll lie again maybe it will be a short term small long term thing.

    I hate Trump. That being said I'd hate him for real reasons and his policies. I’m not going to make up reason to hate or like him.

    He’s a real person he’s and he is unfit for any office or leadership role much less President.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  15. #87935
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    Truly amazing how a "homeless" and totally "liberal" defender of a shopping center went from having nothing six years ago to multiple property ownerships and businesses without being completely full of shit.
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

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  16. #87936
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    I wasn’t duped. I wasn’t for it.
    You were duped. You listed as a reason why YOU would vote for him.

    So What are some reasons for ME to Vote for Trump though?

    1. Lower Taxes.
    2. He has a Tough on Crime approach at least that is what he says.
    3. Strong boarder Control. (I don't mean the stupid wall.)
    That's you, boo.

    You still believe that a Trump Presidency means lower taxes for you. You have been duped.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  17. #87937
    That well is dry fellas.
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Their enemies are busy labeling people "shitheads," dodging all the tough arguments (to the extent they acknowledge contrary arguments existing), and going over all the prejudices that make them believe they're arguing with bad people.
    "Dodge tough questions" types the poster with people on ignore who he couldn't handle the tough questions of.

  18. #87938
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Yes collectively, I was talking about individually and short term, over all it contributed to a fuck ton of poverty also, but I was meaning this more as an objective point in his favor in terms of those that it applied to individually and short term
    In the short term it was fucking stupid at best and in the long term it has turned out to be idiocies' second cousin. That "short term" was you being blind to the actual problems of doing a tax cut at the time, which wasn't needed, because Trump flashed some money in your face, making you one of those pigeons that he loves to swindle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    I support Trump on borer Control, on this one I outside of the dumbass wall idea, I won't put on his shoulders, EVERY nation accounts for and controls their borders, right or wrong that is a reality and good policy.

    Children crossing the border is a reality, however dealing with that is what border enforcement is for, and it is an important policy.


    I won't disagree about the ills, nor would I vilify anyone migrating for opportunity, but that being said, those who are also legal residence, also have rights. The system should be improved, but there aren't any systems we are perfect with, but as I said short of the wall I support Trump on this.
    But Trump in no way tried to improve anything about border control. The wall was a stupid idea, the concentration camps were an atrocity, and you fearing brown people doesn't address any of the reasons why people come here nor why it suddenly became an issue 20 years ago, even though it wasn't really a problem then or before, that Republicans have not figured out while having the majority a majority of the time. He doesn't want to fix it, he uses illegals and if he shut the border down all he'd be doing is finding a way to sell children and get illegals into his hotels to work for pennies on the dollar.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    I did personally benefit as did the business I own. Along with others who Trump and the GOP said they’d do more for.
    "It helped me, therefore it was a good idea." Him doing it again would only increase the debt further for little reason other than to placate the ignorant. (Hint)

    That said should he get elected tax cuts would be 1 of the 3 good things about it.
    It wouldn't, and that's the part people responding to you are questioning.

    I’m not going to make up reason to hate or like him.
    You literally are coming up with a reason, three in fact, to like him, and those reasons are not good.

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  19. #87939
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...618bfee27&ei=9

    'I’m finished with this stiff': Trump flips out on Ohio's GOP governor

    Reacting to the news that Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine vetoed a ban on gender-affirming care in his state, Donald Trump raged at the popular Ohio Republican and let him know he would no longer be welcome at his rallies.

    On Friday DeWine declared he would not sign a bill from the GOP-dominated legislature that would not only ban gender-affirming care for residents of Ohio but also those from neighboring states who are forced to travel because their own states have blocked them.

    Announcing his decision, the Ohio Republican explained, "This bill would impact a very small number of Ohio’s children. But for those children who face gender dysphoria, the consequences of this bill could not be more profound. Ultimately I believe this is about protecting human life. Many parents have told me that their child would not have survived, would be dead today, if they had not received the treatment they received from one of Ohio’s children’s hospitals.”

    News of the DeWine decisions set Trump off on his Truth Social platform where he called DeWine a "stiff" doing the bidding of the "Radical Left."

    He wrote, "DeWine has fallen to the Radical Left. No wonder he gets loudly booed in Ohio every time I introduce him at Rallies, but I won’t be introducing him any more (sic)."

    "I’m finished with this 'stiff.' What was he thinking. The bill would have stopped child mutilation, and prevented men from playing in women’s sports. Legislature will hopefully overturn. Do it FAST!!!" he added.

  20. #87940
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Let's compare New Year's musical celebrity endorsements, shall we?

    1) Green Day changes words of "American Idiot" to target MAGA on the national stage.

    Frontman Billie Joe Armstrong drew cheers from the live audience when he sang out, “I’m not part of the MAGA agenda” during his performance. The original line is, “I’m not a part of a redneck agenda.”
    Now, that's a Rolling Stone article, but there's plenty of others. Go ahead and Google "green day" in the last 24 hours.

    By contrast, this article was harder to find:

    2) Vanilla Ice, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle rock out at Trump New Year’s Eve party at Mar-a-Lago

    That's the Palm Beach Post. Not a bad source, just not exactly the national stage. It was them, or AOL.com. No, really, AOL still exists. Not even FOX News covered this. Trump threw a pity party...and nobody cared.

    Nice nice, baby!

    #VanillaIce was trending on Monday, Jan. 1, New Year’s Day, thanks to his New Year’s Eve performance at Mar-a-Lago, the private club of former president Donald Trump.

    Trump rang in the new year, watching passively as rapper Vanilla Ice performed on stage, according to videos on Twitter. Joining the ‘90s rapper? A Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle — likely Michelangelo since he wore an orange mask — dancing with a mix of karate moves next to the rapper. Trump can be seen in the videos toward the back of the room away from the dance floor as people danced or jumped and cell phones snapped video of Vanilla Ice and Michaelangelo.
    "Passively"?

    Other sources at least as good as Some Guy On Twitter used the term "looking miserable".

    "Does Trump have the licensing rights to TMNT?"

    IDGAF.

    Vanilla Ice has headlines for Trump's New Year's before, namely, 2021. Yep, the one where he'd just lost the election but hadn't fully committed a murderous insurrection yet. But, hey, at least his wife was there this time!



    I did say "looking miserable".

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