Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

He wasn't "removed" from office.

How many times has the Republican Party said "let the voters decide?"

He was removed. By the voters. By their own logic.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

There's a label for when you flagrantly disobey an order from a judge.
It begins with C. Ends with a T.
No, not that one. Contempt.

Eh, the other one works too.
No, not that one.
Convict. (As a verb and, hopefully as an end result of his other trials, a noun)

Also:

Culprit
Cultist
Caught

- - - Updated - - -

How many times has the Republican Party said "let the voters decide?"

He was removed. By the voters. By their own logic.

First: That's a Republican line. Not Trump's Lawyers.

Second: If the Voters decided Trump would never have been President to begin with.

In Legal Terms, Trump was never removed from Office. He served until the end of his term. He did not win his attempt to gain a second term. It may seem like a minor distinction...but it is important.

The Legal Team's "logic" (if we want to use that term to describe this attemtp) is that he first has to be impeached and convicted by Congress before he can be brought up on Criminal Charges.

[Breccia]

First: That's a Republican line. Not Trump's Lawyers.

Touche. Trump might have used it once in a while, but nowhere near the full force of the GOP.

Second: If the Voters decided Trump would never have been President to begin with.

You and I aren't going to disagree much on the E.C.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

You and I aren't going to disagree much on the E.C.

I think, in terms of the big picture here, there aren't a lot of things we disagree about. We may have disagreements on the route we take to get to the destination...but I think it's the same place.

[Breccia]

We may have disagreements on the route we take to get to the destination

I told you, Exit 17 has a Popeye's Chicken and a Jersey Mike's. How can you pass that up?

Unrelated: a small number of Republicans have dared to publicly object to Trump calling the people who took part in Jan 6th's murderous insurrection, got caught, got arrested, and either found guilty or pled guilty, "hostages".

“I don’t condone that characterization at all, no,” said Senate Republican Whip John Thune (S.D.) when asked about Trump calling Jan. 6-related convicts “hostages.”

“We got a justice system and they’re working through it,” Thune said of the nearly 900 people convicted of Jan. 6-related crimes, including more than 200 people who have pleaded guilty to felonies.

Sen. John Cornyn (Texas), a member of the Senate Republican leadership team, dismissed Trump’s claim — echoed by some other Republicans — that individuals who were convicted of destroying property or assaulting police officers in the Capitol are “hostages.”

“Somebody who’s been duly convicted of a federal crime is not a hostage,” he said.

“Let me say this about Jan. 6: I’ve had remarks that I made on Feb. 13 of ’21 about how I felt about Jan. 6. I recently reread it, I stand by what I said,” McConnell said.

Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.) balked at the notion that people convicted of Jan. 6 crimes are somehow hostages or political prisoners.

“That’s like calling drug traffickers unlicensed pharmacists. At the end of the day, they’re J6 convicts to me. If they were proven guilty in a court of law of a crime, it is what it is."

Now, they'll all still vote for him. But I'll take anything that makes Trump angry, which people disagreeing with him does.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I told you, Exit 17 has a Popeye's Chicken and a Jersey Mike's. How can you pass that up?

But Exit 19 also has a Popeye's...and it's right next to a gas station...so we can minimize stops.

(Full disclosure: I've never had Popeye's Chicken nor Jersey Mike's. Exit 19 may or may not have a Popeye's Chicken and a Gas Station)

[Karreck]

(Full disclosure: I've never had Popeye's Chicken nor Jersey Mike's. Exit 19 may or may not have a Popeye's Chicken and a Gas Station)

I like Jersey Mikes. Nice, honest sub sandwiches that taste better than Subway.
Not a fried chicken fan, so can't say much about Popeye's.

[Kaleredar]

I think, in terms of the big picture here, there aren't a lot of things we disagree about. We may have disagreements on the route we take to get to the destination...but I think it's the same place.

I mean, the problem per say is that both you and @Breccia are arguing about the legal and judicial logic being employed here, and rightly trying to find why it's unsound or the obvious loopholes therein.


But I submit to you both that while it might look like Trump and his lawyers are attempting to argue "legal and judicial logic" that no such thing is actually occurring from them. No, I submit to you that, much like how Russia's "there are nazis in Ukraine/NATO is mean/Ukraine used to belong to Russia" line is actually just a more verbose way for them to say "we want to take over Ukraine," Trump's statements about immunities and moving goalposts around things like suddenly needing impeachments all really just amount to them saying "Trump should not be held accountable because he is Trump."

And they're hoping that, ultimately, the supreme court agrees with that notion. That Trump should be able to do what Trump wants. Because they're going to appeal this and every ruling as far up the chain as they can, to stall for as long as they can, in the hopes that Trump can wind back up in the White House to once again do whatever he wants.

As for his followers and their thoughts on the matter, @Kokolums (likely unknowingly) actually summed up the whole matter rather well when he basically spoke for all of them in the capitol riot thread saying that he thought that the January 6th insurrectionists should "really just go free" and that the justice department should just stop pursuing them. Why? Because he just thinks it's not worth the effort to punish people who broke the law. Because he agrees with them. I actually applaud his straightforwardness in his endorsement of violent lawlessness; that violent political terrorists should be allowed to go free "just because" he agrees with them. But that's what you're dealing with vis-a-vis Trump supporters writ large.

[Poopymonster]

But Exit 19 also has a Popeye's...and it's right next to a gas station...so we can minimize stops.

(Full disclosure: I've never had Popeye's Chicken nor Jersey Mike's. Exit 19 may or may not have a Popeye's Chicken and a Gas Station)

Pass on Jersey Mikes, go for Wawa.

[Breccia]

Mike Rowan, one of the many defendants in the Georgia trial, has filed a motion on the grounds that DA Willis and Special Prosecutor Wade are...let's see...

(turns page)

...having sex with each other. No, really.

"Oh, they have evidence of this clearly improper relationship!"

No.

UPDATE: She has been subpoena'd on this issue. Again, based on no evidence of any kind filed. This is just an annoyance tactic, and I'm disappointed that the prosecutor in your case can be subpoena'd based on the defendant's word alone.

Also, WaWa is awesome.

- - - Updated - - -

Trump predicts stock market crash if he's not elected.

Donald Trump's prediction that the U.S. economy was on the verge of a "very massive recession" hit a wall of skepticism on Sunday from economists who questioned the Republican presidential front-runner's calculations.

In an interview with the Washington Post published on Saturday, the billionaire businessman said a combination of high unemployment and an overvalued stock market had set the stage for another economic slump. He put real unemployment above 20 percent.

Sorry, sorry, I accidentally cited something from 2016. Let me find something more recent.

Trump predicts stock market crash if he doesn’t win in 2024

Oh, deja vu.

Now, nobody here needs a reminder that Trump saw plenty of stock market loss during his administration's COVID problem. If you look at the twenty biggest percentage drops of the DOW, Trump has three (including #2) and Biden has zero. There was no stock market crash after the 2020 election. There was no crash (of significance) during Biden's admin. Nov 2, 2020, the DOW was 26,691 and Jan 20, 2021, it was 31,017.

Trump is fearmongering.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Trump is fearmongering.

He always has been.

[Gorsameth]

Trump bleeding Republican donors dry before the election has even kicked off, still failing to defend himself and (he should) still go to jail. So now Republicans have no candidate and no money for the 2024 elections would be the absolute dream.

[Gigantique]

Trump bleeding Republican donors dry before the election has even kicked off, still failing to defend himself and (he should) still go to jail. So now Republicans have no candidate and no money for the 2024 elections would be the absolute dream.

Aye, considering Republican voters are primed to just believe whatever shite they're served information-wise a party with a vastly diminished ability to run bullshit ads etc could potentially have a huge impact on apathy levels among their voters.

[Flarelaine]

Judge in Trump’s civil fraud trial faces bomb threat ahead of closing arguments

[Breccia]

Judge in Trump’s civil fraud trial faces bomb threat ahead of closing arguments

This looks like the use of threats of violence to obtain a political goal, namely, freeing Trump from the consequences of his actions so he can run for dictator. Hey Flarelaine, what's it called when you use violence, or threats of violence (say, a bomb threat), to obtain a political goal?

And also, how do you feel about leading questions?

Speaking of NBC News, they were one of the many sources reporting on Greene's swatting. She was not thrilled about it, although she does say she gave the police cookies. So I am looking forward to her public declaration that this threat against the judge was also wrong and should not have happened. I'd ask our resident Trump supporters, but...well...

- - - Updated - - -

Once again, it's time for Guess the Speaker! The topic is Trump's town hall, hosted by FOX News, admitted purveyor of defamatory information and known purveyor of blatant lies.

I don’t think that there was very many critical questions.

He’s not done any debates yet. I think it’s because he knows he can get away with that type of gaslighting at that venue. He knows he wouldn’t be able to get away with that if we were just on the debate stage.

He was bragging in 2020 that he shut down the greatest economy in the world. He used to say he saved millions of lives to do that. Now he knows Republican voters think that was a mistake, but he cannot admit that he made a mistake.

I think as a leader, you know, if something doesn’t work, you course correct. And voters appreciate that. It’s refreshing when you acknowledge that you got something wrong. Donald Trump just can’t do that.

"Clearly some commie librul traitor who hates 'Merica!"

The speaker, of course, is losing GOP candidate and person who got his ass kicked by a cartoon mouse Ron DeSantis.

Well that's one point for citing the town hall *ding* but let's add a few more by citing FOX News themselves from their own article about the town hall.

Hmm, interesting, it seems that FOX News seems to use "former President Donald Trump" each and every single paragraph for...some reason. Mixing it up with a few "the GOP frontrunner"s. Feels a little repetitive. Well, you know how much I hate repetition, so I'll edit that out as soon as I'm done having sex with Lindsey Graham's wife.

"I say very simply, we were starting to pay down debt," Trump said during the Iowa Town hall event on Wednesday night. "We were going to pay down a lot of debt when COVID came along. If I didn't inject this country with money, you would have had a depression, the likes of which you have never seen."

Trump continued, "You had to inject money. We gave businesses that were going bankrupt, temporarily bankrupt, but they needed money. We helped businesses. If I didn't do that, you would have had a depression in this country. That was a very good investment. And now what they should be doing instead of the kind of debt that they're building at record levels, they should be paying down their debt and they ought to go into the energy business instead of this green new scam business that they're in."

Were we paying down debt in 2017-2019? I'll take a quick look.

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/data...bt-outstanding

No. No, we were not. To be fair, it's not going down now either, but Biden's not the one telling cameras he paid down debt. Trump was, and nobody challenged him on the objective lie. Score one point for the mystery speaker.

Trump slammed Hunter Biden during his Fox News Town Hall in Iowa on Wednesday night calling him out for selling his artwork for large sums of money.

"I don't get $8 million for doing nothing like Hunter," Trump said. "I don't get I don't get $500,000. I don't get $500,000 for doing a painting. It's not a bad idea, I guess, if you can get away with it. When I heard that when I said there's no way they get away with that. But they got away with that. I guess they got away with it."

Trump was not immediately challenged on his NFT collections, plural. Another unchallenged blatant lie by Trump.

Trump accused Gov. Ron DeSantis, R-Fla., of being "the biggest fan of Dr. Fauci."

"If you go back and look at the record, you will see that the biggest fan of Dr. Fauci was Ron Desanctimonious. He was a big fan," Trump said during a town hall Wednesday. "Ron DeSantis was a big Dr. Fauci fan and nobody wants to cover that."

The Trump administration listed Fauci as an individual recognized for "exceptional efforts on Operation Warp Speed" in 2021, but Wednesday Trump claimed "Dr. Fauci was not a huge factor in my administration. He became a much bigger factor in Biden's administration."

You know, props to the author of this rolling tracker to bring this up, and even brings up an unrelated radio interview where Trump claims he could not fire Fauci. Which we know is false. But it was not brought up in the town hall itself. More unchallenged lies, or at the minimum, another checkbox by the mystery speaker of the gaslighting.

The GOP frontrunner when on to say that “most of the chaos” during his first term in office “was caused by the Democrats constantly going after [him].”

“Remember that with phony Russia, Russia, Russia. I mean, if you look at Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine, everything was phony. The FISA warrants, the lying to Congress, they had chaos. They were the ones that caused the chaos. We didn't have chaos,” Trump said.

The man who started an insurrection, even if he denies it, glosses over the Jan 6th invasion as "we didn't have chaos". Another blatant lie, not challenged in the town hall. That mystery speaker has pointed out Trump refuses to debate for exactly this reason.

Trump accused his Republican opponents, Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis, of wanting to cut Medicare and Social Security as part of their plans to reduce the record national debt facing the nation.

"Wait, I thought Haley said she wanted to 'reform' those programs, so Trump isn't lying."

Actually that's correct. I just like citing the Republican civil war.

Trump railed against the “chaos” at the southern border during a Fox News town hall Wednesday.

“They have chaos at the border,” Trump told a group of voters in Iowa. “The border is a disaster, the worst border in history. I think the worst border in the history of the world. We had the best border in the history of our country. We never had a border like that.”

Trump forgets that Russia invaded Ukraine. Another blatant lie.

So, yes, the mystery speaker is correct. Trump lied so much and so often, without being challenged, that even the author of their summary rolling tracker started to comment that the taste of his tiny limp dick wasn't as good as they remembered.

EDIT: Oh, right, that's four more FOX News citations *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding*

[Edge-]

https://www.salon.com/2024/01/11/con...room-outburst/

Former President Donald Trump on Thursday launched into an extended tirade during the closing arguments in his New York fraud trial.

Trump attorney Chris Kise asked Judge Arthur Engoron to allow Trump to speak on his own behalf after the judge rescinded permission for the former president to deliver part of his closing argument because Kise objected to preconditions that Trump keep to “relevant” matters.

Engoron asked Trump if he would be willing to stick to the facts and the law but Trump launched into a rant without agreeing to the terms.

In a twist nobody could have seen coming, opening the door to allow Donald to speak is just opening the sewage floodgates -

"Well I think, your honor, this case goes outside the facts," Trump said, according to ABC News. "The financial statements were perfect. The banks got all their money back. They were as happy as can be."

Trump ignored the judge’s instruction, claiming that the case is a “political witch hunt that should be set aside.”

“We should receive damages for what we've gone through,” he declared.

Trump also went after New York Attorney General Letitia James.

"I'm an innocent man. I've been persecuted by someone running for office," Trump said. "This statute is vicious. It doesn't give me a jury. It takes away my rights."

Trump referred to a key allegation in the lawsuit, that he tripled the square footage of his Trump Tower penthouse, calling it “an honest mistake.”

"This is a fraud on me. What's happened here sir is a fraud on me,” Trump claimed.

“They found nothing and now she comes in and says she wants to make a $250 million fine a [$370 million], for what!?” he continued, adding that Engoron has his own agenda.

Oh boy, surely that'll go over well with Judge Engoron?

“Haven't you been sued before? Isn’t that a problem?” Engoron asked Trump, according to NBC News.

“They should pay me for what we’ve gone through — reputation and else,” Trump said.

“Mr. Kise, please control your client,” Engoron begged, according to NBC News’ Lisa Rubin.

Gag the loser who has consistently proven himself pathologically incapable of stopping himself from lying or following any rules.

“But it’s too late,” Rubin tweeted. “Everything Trump wanted to say was said. And now, having said it, he has left the courtroom after insisting James should pay him for the havoc she’s wreaked on his company.”

Yup, Engoron gave Donald exactly what he wanted. This is all such a farce, our systems are not built to withstand this kind of bad faith, intentional ratfuckery and dishonesty.

Doesn't help that Engoron apparently had a bomb threat at his home this morning.

[Breccia]

"Well I think, your honor, this case goes outside the facts," Trump said

I'm going to need an expert on this.

@cubby can you think of a single dumber thing you could ever say to the judge, in the case in which you're the defendant? Like, even a hyperbolic one?

[zorkuus]

Omfg what a spineless legal system. Holy hell, how is this possible... ahahaha

[Gorsameth]

https://www.salon.com/2024/01/11/con...room-outburst/



In a twist nobody could have seen coming, opening the door to allow Donald to speak is just opening the sewage floodgates -



Oh boy, surely that'll go over well with Judge Engoron?



Gag the loser who has consistently proven himself pathologically incapable of stopping himself from lying or following any rules.



Yup, Engoron gave Donald exactly what he wanted. This is all such a farce, our systems are not built to withstand this kind of bad faith, intentional ratfuckery and dishonesty.

Doesn't help that Engoron apparently had a bomb threat at his home this morning.

the system is capable of dealing with it. You just need a judge willing to say "I hold you in contempt, Bailiff remove the defendant from the courtroom"

[Breccia]

Okay so I've had another 30 seconds to think it over and thought of two more things.

1) There was no jury. Antagonizing the judge is stupid. Antagonizing the judge, when the judge is the one who decides the outcome, is suicide.

2) I wanted to say, that this was a deliberate choice on Trump's part, creating the narrative that everything was rigged, because he knew he was going to lose. That might even be true. But he could have done that to cameras outside the courthouse. And Trump's lawyers disagree as well, or they'd have made that argument themselves. They didn't.

I cannot see a single benefit of Trump doing this. This wasn't an own-goal, this was punching your own goalie in the dick during penalty kicks.

There's more -- Trump is trying to introduce evidence without going on the stand, you can't do that -- but I think those are the big ones.

I'm a bit at a loss why Engoron allowed Trump to speak at all. The man has shown patience beyond what mere mortals are capable of. He gave Trump enough rope to run around the Earth, and still hang himself.