Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

That's been kicked around for a while. The rest I don't know, I'm not informed enough to know if that means "he can't even get an appeals court to listen" versus "they'll listen, but he won't have a case when they do" or if that difference matters.

I'm not super familiar myself with how it all shakes out in regards to that. I'm not even sure if that's the reason why Engoran is being so accomodating.

I'm just aggravated by all of this "performative fairness".

[Gorsameth]

Some talking heads i saw on TV today say Engoron is just trying not to give Trump any grounds for appeal. Can't really cry that the judge was biased agaisnt you when he went above and beyond to make sure Trump was afforded ever opportunity.

The issue I take with that is "the judge cut me off while I was ranting during the closing arguments because I decided to speak instead of my lawyer" is not, and will never be, grounds for an appeal.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

The issue I take with that is "the judge cut me off while I was ranting during the closing arguments because I decided to speak instead of my lawyer" is not, and will never be, grounds for an appeal.

I agree. Except it aggravates me because they would never be that "fair" to anyone else.

[Kokolums]

No. Under the 22nd Amendment it's 2 terms period. Doesn't matter if consecutive or not.

this is factually incorrect. Trump can serve UNLIMITED terms as president. the text of the 22nd amendment is as follows.

"No person shall be ELECTED to the office of the President more than twice..."

getting elected is NOT the only way to become president. You can also become president via line of succession. Which means the House can name you as Speaker which puts you second in line of succession. Then if the president and vice-president both resign, you become "acting" president. The thing is, no-one expects that to ever happen on purpose, although some devoted members of Trumps camp could in theory do it to reinstall Trump as much as they like. In fact this whole thing by the republicans where they have begun destabilizing the office of Speaker by booting McCarthy could be seen as setting it up. Still, Trump is very very old and might die in office in the next 4 years if anything.

[postman1782]

this is factually incorrect. Trump can serve UNLIMITED terms as president. the text of the 22nd amendment is as follows.

"No person shall be ELECTED to the office of the President more than twice..."

getting elected is NOT the only way to become president. You can also become president via line of succession. Which means the House can name you as Speaker which puts you second in line of succession. Then if the president and vice-president both resign, you become "acting" president. The thing is, no-one expects that to ever happen on purpose, although some devoted members of Trumps camp could in theory do it to reinstall Trump as much as they like. In fact this whole thing by the republicans where they have begun destabilizing the office of Speaker by booting McCarthy could be seen as setting it up. Still, Trump is very very old and might die in office in the next 4 years if anything.

He can't be president without being elected. How fucking DENSE are you? And he will never be speaker, being speaker requires him to actually do work, he would never do that.

[Mayhem]

So Team Trump is currently working hard to load the gun for Biden and hand it to him.

Did I get this right?

Not saying that Biden would actually do any of that shit Team Trump is currently arguing for but if their defense holds he could just assassinate all the Republicans in the House and Senate and not fear prosecution?

[zorkuus]

So Team Trump is currently working hard to load the gun for Biden and hand it to him.

Did I get this right?

Not saying that Biden would actually do any of that shit Team Trump is currently arguing for but if their defense holds he could just assassinate all the Republicans in the House and Senate and not fear prosecution?

Sounds good to me. Let's end this maga disaster once and for all

But we all know this is not what they mean.. This total immunity would magically apply to only tRump, even if it was worded to apply to all presidents.

[Breccia]

So Team Trump is currently working hard to load the gun for Biden and hand it to him.

Did I get this right?

I don't know if this is right, or instead if this is some mutation of "criminals don't follow laws" like the NRA uses. Team Trump just seems so intent to make no sense at all, so they can do whatever they want with no consequences.

[Edge-]

this is factually incorrect. Trump can serve UNLIMITED terms as president. the text of the 22nd amendment is as follows.

"No person shall be ELECTED to the office of the President more than twice..."

getting elected is NOT the only way to become president. You can also become president via line of succession. Which means the House can name you as Speaker which puts you second in line of succession. Then if the president and vice-president both resign, you become "acting" president. The thing is, no-one expects that to ever happen on purpose, although some devoted members of Trumps camp could in theory do it to reinstall Trump as much as they like. In fact this whole thing by the republicans where they have begun destabilizing the office of Speaker by booting McCarthy could be seen as setting it up. Still, Trump is very very old and might die in office in the next 4 years if anything.

Honestly, while this is technically true, it ignores the context of the discussion happening which was about elections and Donald. Because any of this potentially happening is such a stretch that Stretch Armstrong is jealous.

[Lenonis]

Omfg what a spineless legal system. Holy hell, how is this possible... ahahaha

I'm operating under the assumption that the judge is doing everything possible to avoid giving Trump's legal team the chance to appeal based on inappropriate or biased behavior by the judge.

That is the only reason I can think of that makes letting Trump run wild during the trial make any sort of sense.

[zorkuus]

I'm operating under the assumption that the judge is doing everything possible to avoid giving Trump's legal team the chance to appeal based on inappropriate or biased behavior by the judge.

That is the only reason I can think of that makes letting Trump run wild during the trial make any sort of sense.

The judge received a bomb threat to his home after he said he isn't going to let tRump speak. I think you're being a bit too optimistic.

[Kokolums]

Honestly, while this is technically true, it ignores the context of the discussion happening which was about elections and Donald. Because any of this potentially happening is such a stretch that Stretch Armstrong is jealous.

You agree with me then, as I said its extremely unlikely to ever happen. I'm just pointing out that the law doesnt bar anyone from unimited terms. thanks for your support on the issue.

[shimerra]

You agree with me then, as I said its extremely unlikely to ever happen. I'm just pointing out that the law doesnt bar anyone from unimited terms. thanks for your support on the issue.

I would also like to point out that you are not a flying spaghetti monster that can only mate while under a double rainbow in field of tulips.


That was about as useful as your contribution to the discussion regarding the amount of times someone can be president. Thank you for your contribution. It was about as helpful as my cat throwing up on my keyboard was towards me getting any work down. The only thing it was missing was some weird rant about how the only path forward is to appease racists and extremists.

[Breccia]

And now, a quote from the man some of y'all chose to be your leader and will vote for in 2024:

Fox News has canceled MyPillow!

Shit, that's Mike Lindell. I had him confused with Trump because he's failed businessman facing a massive lawsuit friend of Steve Bannon who continues to push election conspiracy lies.

The Judge cut me off in Court and would not let me explain that I was worth much more than the 4 plus $Billion (years ago) I show in the Financial Statements, which are conservatively done.

Judge Engoron, curiously, cut Mar-a-Lago’s VALUE by a Billion Dollars, all the way down to $18,000,000 (and other assets as well!) to try and save the A.G.’s case. What is going on here? WITCH HUNT! ELECTION INTERFERENCE!

Why didn’t Judge Engoron announce his decision yesterday after we proved conclusively that I DID NOTHING WRONG!!

That's Trump, the failed businessman facing a massive lawsuit friend of Steve Bannon pushing election conspiracy lies. How ever did I get them confused?

"Didn't Trump claim he was worth TEN BILLION DOLLARS! in 2016?"

How nice of you to remember, voice in my head, I posted not only that quote but the link to the official document he filed where he said it. And I think that was the last year involved in this case, close enough at least, 2016. In that same posting of mine I just linked, I also cited that Trump has confessed, under oath, that his net worth is based on his feelings. In other words, Trump said, under oath, that he could not have defended four billion, either.

Or, to quote the judge in this case:

Valuations, as elucidated ad nauseum in this trial, can be based on different criteria analyzed in different ways. But a lie is still a lie.

Oh, and as I posted at the time, as did others...I'm linking a post this way because the user is inactive for five years and doesn't need to be dragged back, but, deserves credit. In that post, he quotes multiple articles each saying Trump's disclosure form in 2016 was easily double what everyone else said. Saying "it's true because Trump said it on his fiscal disclosure forms" is not a defense, it's actually admission of a lie.

Oh, that's above and beyond the whole "closing arguments aren't evidence and also aren't under oath" of which the second half is bullshit. Just avoiding testimony and lying to the judge/jury on purpose? Sorry @cubby I'm not shitting on your profession or your knowldge of it, but that rule is just stupid.

"Is it true you can't commit fraud if there are no victims?"

No. According to this guy who opposes the Trump trial in question, NY can not only take profits from the illegal activity even if there are no damages, the damages are based on the profit of the wrong doer not the loss of the victim. Incidentally, federal law says something fairly similar, so even if Trump moved his case, which I don't think is possible, it won't help.

Oh, and the judge also flat-out said at least once that the lenders gave lower rates based on those false values. They should have charged higher rates, but Trump lied, so they did not. They were victims. Trump is lying.

"At what point did Team Trump prove they did nothing wrong?"

That never happened. As a reminder, hold on lemme find it...Sept 26 was when Engoron found that Team Trump committed fraud. Pretty sure we're just in damages at this point. Sounds like a few other Team Trump cases, doesn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, by the way.

"The judge cut Trump off?"

Okay, there's like basically nobody on these forums who doesn't know that, but on the off chance you somehow missed it, Engoron gave Trump limited ability to speak in the part of the trial which, again, he could lie without consequence. But he did have to stay on topic, and he did have to lay off the attacks. He did neither. And, again, you can't introduce new evidence in closing arguments. Trump was trying to, yes he was lying but lies are still evidence.

I can't find a transcript, there were no cameras, but I did find some quotes.

You have your own agenda. I understand that you can't listen for more than one minute

I've been persecuted by someone running for office. This statute is vicious. It doesn't give me a jury. It takes away my rights.

I think, your honor, this case goes outside the facts

This is a political witch hunt that should be set aside. We should receive damages for what we've gone through.

Saying "the judge cut him off" is like saying "the police took my guns" after you're caught committing a mass shooting. It was Trump's fault, and a lot of us think Trump shouldn't have gotten that far -- or even started. Put his fat ass under oath next time.

Donald Trump is in trouble. He should be terrified. I have seen very little that suggests that Engoron will do anything but hit Trump hard over this. Everything presented by the state showed recklessness or worse as a long-term coordinated effort, and all Trump had was yelling off the stand. Oh, and one expert the judge flat-out said was bought.

The most glaring flaw is to assume that the testimony of defendants' experts, notably Messsrs. Jason Flemmons and Eli Bartov, is true and accurate, or at least that the Court, as the trier of fact, will accept it as true and accurate. Bartov is a tenured professor, but all that his testimony proves is that for a million or so dollars [EDITOR: $877,000 and change] some experts will say whatever you want them to say. His overarching points was that the subject statements of financial condition were accurate in every respect. As this Court discussed in excruciating detail in its September 25, 2023 summary judgement decision, the Statements of Financial Condition ("SFCs") contained numerous obvious errors. By doggedly attempting to justify every missstatement, Professor Bartov lost all credibility.

-- Engoron, emphasis mine

This ruling is only three pages long and stomps on pretty much everything Trump or his lawyers said even once, because everything they said was objectively false and easily shown as such. The last paragraph is about liability, for example, and handwaves Trump's comments about his vague disclaimer being a legal defense, because it isn't one.

Engoron said he'd decide by Jan 31. Honestly, it would not surprise me if he waited until the very end like every other benefit he's given Trump, so I'm not holding my breath. But he has yet to say anything that makes me suspect he's going to let this kind of behavior off with a warning.

[Kokolums]

I would also like to point out that you are not a flying spaghetti monster that can only mate while under a double rainbow in field of tulips.


That was about as useful as your contribution to the discussion regarding the amount of times someone can be president. Thank you for your contribution. It was about as helpful as my cat throwing up on my keyboard was towards me getting any work down. The only thing it was missing was some weird rant about how the only path forward is to appease racists and extremists.

correcting the record is useful. unless you want a forum with a bunch of false information.

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He can't be president without being elected. How fucking DENSE are you? And he will never be speaker, being speaker requires him to actually do work, he would never do that.

yes he can. you are wrong. i just literally pointed out the text word for word.

[zorkuus]

correcting the record is useful. unless you want a forum with a bunch of false information.

So when are you going to leave the forum?

[alach]

I would like to think we try and debate with reason and not bully eh? It's important to hear all sides.
I think he was pointing out a way trump could stay in charge without altering any current laws or rules, something most dictators do while rewriting the laws to give themselves full power.

[zorkuus]

I would like to think we try and debate with reason and not bully eh? It's important to hear all sides.
I think he was pointing out a way trump could stay in charge without altering any current laws or rules, something most dictators do while rewriting the laws to give themselves full power.

And it was about as useful to the discussion as pointing out that sometimes people accidentally try to answer the tv remote when the phone rings.

[alach]

That's fine, just saying it's good to try to engage with some civility so people with a different perspective aren't chased off, instead of tried to be reasoned with.

[Gorsameth]

Nothing wrong with pointing out when people are being pedantic idiots. And they absolutely know they are being pedantic.