1. #88121
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I'm going to need an expert on this.

    @cubby can you think of a single dumber thing you could ever say to the judge, in the case in which you're the defendant? Like, even a hyperbolic one?
    It would be a tall order indeed.

    This little rant that Trump provided the court (and the record) is a perfect example of why his revolving door of attorneys have been beyond terrified of having Trump go on the record in any capacity. The things he says on the stand are sworn testimony, and subject to all the laws and punishments available, including further prosecution for new crimes.

    Interestingly, closing arguments are not sworn testimony, which is why I think his attorney "let" him speak (I'm not 100% on that item though).


    And in the broader picture, and as many have already noted, our legal system is broken/breaking. The fact that someone as felonious and contemptable as Trump is still allowed to stalk the courts with his lies and drivel, begging for violent action in defense of his "good name", is beyond atrocious. Any other defendant would have already been behind bars on multiple contempt charges.

  2. #88122
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Trump bleeding Republican donors dry before the election has even kicked off, still failing to defend himself and (he should) still go to jail. So now Republicans have no candidate and no money for the 2024 elections would be the absolute dream.
    Well, the thing about that is, even if Trump is sent to prison, there does not seem to be anything that states he still can't be the candidate.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  3. #88123
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    the system is capable of dealing with it. You just need a judge willing to say "I hold you in contempt, Bailiff remove the defendant from the courtroom"
    Hell, you just need to put the standard at "I need a heartfelt apology and retraction of everything untoward stated by the Defendant" as the requirement to let him out of a jail cell, and Trump will never get out.

    But no. Instead, Engoron's a fuckin' pussy. You should be holding Trump to the same standards as you'd hold a 19 year old gang member up on drug charges. Anything less is the definition of "corruption". You're giving someone a free pass on abusing your courtroom because they're rich. Grow a fuckin' spine, Engoron, there's nothing he can do to you and if his terrorist cultists are gonna bomb you, they're gonna bomb you anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Well, the thing about that is, even if Trump is sent to prison, there does not seem to be anything that states he still can't be the candidate.
    Puts a bit of a damper on his ability to campaign, particularly if the prison decides not to allow special communications privileges (so he's stuck using public phones on calls to lawyers and the like, not press junkets in meeting rooms)
    Last edited by Endus; 2024-01-11 at 09:23 PM.


  4. #88124
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Puts a bit of a damper on his ability to campaign, particularly if the prison decides not to allow special communications privileges (so he's stuck using public phones on calls to lawyers and the like, not press junkets in meeting rooms)
    Bold to assume that they would not give him any more special privileges. The track record on that is not good.

  5. #88125
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post

    Puts a bit of a damper on his ability to campaign, particularly if the prison decides not to allow special communications privileges (so he's stuck using public phones on calls to lawyers and the like, not press junkets in meeting rooms)
    Sure, but:

    a) it's unlikely he'd even go to an actual prison
    b) even if he did it's unlikely they'd cut off his access like that.
    c) if they did it would just fuel his "witchhunt" claims
    d) Republicans will vote for the republican candidate even if he is in jail

    They've been bending over backwards to show that Donald Trump isn;t being treated unfairly... but the side effect of that is just to put a spotlight on how unfair it is to everyone else.
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2024-01-11 at 10:06 PM.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  6. #88126
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Interestingly, closing arguments are not sworn testimony, which is why I think his attorney "let" him speak (I'm not 100% on that item though).
    I am disappointed to learn that you can lie during closing arguments with no consequences. Perhaps that's why Trump insisted on giving the closing -- he could lie all he wanted.

    However, I was moderately sure that you could not introduce evidence during them, either, and the things Trump said, yes they were false, but were presented as facts. The judge could have shut him off on the spot and chose not to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Puts a bit of a damper on his ability to campaign
    I, personally, want to see the debates if Trump is in prison. Not because he'd have to Zoom the debates in an orange jumpsuit, but because he just wouldn't go, and Biden could keep pointing that out with hours and hours of free publicity.

    He will appeal any guilty finding of course, this is a pipe dream.

  7. #88127
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I am disappointed to learn that you can lie during closing arguments with no consequences.
    Well... you can't, if the judge had the balls to put a stop to the irrelevant rant.

  8. #88128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I am disappointed to learn that you can lie during closing arguments with no consequences. Perhaps that's why Trump insisted on giving the closing -- he could lie all he wanted.

    However, I was moderately sure that you could not introduce evidence during them, either, and the things Trump said, yes they were false, but were presented as facts. The judge could have shut him off on the spot and chose not to.
    Normally you can't introduce new evidence in closing arguments - especially in a jury trial (still ultimate LOL'd that Trump's Bigly Excellent attorneys fucked that up). Had this been a jury trial, he would have been shut down immediately - despite Engoron's impotence.

    However (and this is the watchword for Trump's entire life/career), because this was a judge trial, the judge can grant more leeway, because only the judge is evaluating the evidence in trial.


    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I, personally, want to see the debates if Trump is in prison. Not because he'd have to Zoom the debates in an orange jumpsuit, but because he just wouldn't go, and Biden could keep pointing that out with hours and hours of free publicity.

    He will appeal any guilty finding of course, this is a pipe dream.
    Same. Also, if he is actually in jail, the media will give him another $3B-$4B in free ad time because of it. Debating from jail - he might actually win.

  9. #88129
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I'm going to need an expert on this.

    @cubby can you think of a single dumber thing you could ever say to the judge, in the case in which you're the defendant? Like, even a hyperbolic one?
    appropriately for a man... sorry, an orange allegedly human male with an unidentified (and possibly dead?) mutant life form living on his head... named after breaking wind... he loves to talk our of his arse. the mystery is why his cultists line up to kiss it
    but never assume that there isn't something more stupid that he could have said because the next time he makes a statement he'll prove that there's worse

  10. #88130
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I am disappointed to learn that you can lie during closing arguments with no consequences. Perhaps that's why Trump insisted on giving the closing -- he could lie all he wanted.

    However, I was moderately sure that you could not introduce evidence during them, either, and the things Trump said, yes they were false, but were presented as facts. The judge could have shut him off on the spot and chose not to.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I, personally, want to see the debates if Trump is in prison. Not because he'd have to Zoom the debates in an orange jumpsuit, but because he just wouldn't go, and Biden could keep pointing that out with hours and hours of free publicity.

    He will appeal any guilty finding of course, this is a pipe dream.
    I mean does it really matter, as far as the trial is concerned, if Trump makes up nonsense on the stand during closing arguments? I’m hoping the judge just sees through that bullshit. There’s no jury for him to attempt to last-minute sway with some Perry Mason nonsense.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #88131
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I mean does it really matter, as far as the trial is concerned, if Trump makes up nonsense on the stand during closing arguments?
    Yes, if
    a) he was subject to perjury for it (he's not), and/or
    b) he was subject to contempt for it, and of course, the judge did something about it

    You're right that the judge doesn't believe Trump, but at that point, why let him say anything? There was nothing to be gained here.

  12. #88132
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    You're right that the judge doesn't believe Trump, but at that point, why let him say anything? There was nothing to be gained here.
    This whole fiasco gives the impression that (bomb) threats work.

  13. #88133
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    I think the stock market’s going up because I’m leading Biden in the polls.
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  14. #88134
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Yes, if
    a) he was subject to perjury for it (he's not), and/or
    b) he was subject to contempt for it, and of course, the judge did something about it

    You're right that the judge doesn't believe Trump, but at that point, why let him say anything? There was nothing to be gained here.
    Some talking heads i saw on TV today say Engoron is just trying not to give Trump any grounds for appeal. Can't really cry that the judge was biased agaisnt you when he went above and beyond to make sure Trump was afforded ever opportunity.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  15. #88135
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Some talking heads i saw on TV today say Engoron is just trying not to give Trump any grounds for appeal
    That's been kicked around for a while. The rest I don't know, I'm not informed enough to know if that means "he can't even get an appeals court to listen" versus "they'll listen, but he won't have a case when they do" or if that difference matters.

  16. #88136
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    That's been kicked around for a while. The rest I don't know, I'm not informed enough to know if that means "he can't even get an appeals court to listen" versus "they'll listen, but he won't have a case when they do" or if that difference matters.
    I'm not super familiar myself with how it all shakes out in regards to that. I'm not even sure if that's the reason why Engoran is being so accomodating.

    I'm just aggravated by all of this "performative fairness".
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  17. #88137
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Some talking heads i saw on TV today say Engoron is just trying not to give Trump any grounds for appeal. Can't really cry that the judge was biased agaisnt you when he went above and beyond to make sure Trump was afforded ever opportunity.
    The issue I take with that is "the judge cut me off while I was ranting during the closing arguments because I decided to speak instead of my lawyer" is not, and will never be, grounds for an appeal.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  18. #88138
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    The issue I take with that is "the judge cut me off while I was ranting during the closing arguments because I decided to speak instead of my lawyer" is not, and will never be, grounds for an appeal.
    I agree. Except it aggravates me because they would never be that "fair" to anyone else.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  19. #88139
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    No. Under the 22nd Amendment it's 2 terms period. Doesn't matter if consecutive or not.
    this is factually incorrect. Trump can serve UNLIMITED terms as president. the text of the 22nd amendment is as follows.

    "No person shall be ELECTED to the office of the President more than twice..."

    getting elected is NOT the only way to become president. You can also become president via line of succession. Which means the House can name you as Speaker which puts you second in line of succession. Then if the president and vice-president both resign, you become "acting" president. The thing is, no-one expects that to ever happen on purpose, although some devoted members of Trumps camp could in theory do it to reinstall Trump as much as they like. In fact this whole thing by the republicans where they have begun destabilizing the office of Speaker by booting McCarthy could be seen as setting it up. Still, Trump is very very old and might die in office in the next 4 years if anything.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  20. #88140
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    this is factually incorrect. Trump can serve UNLIMITED terms as president. the text of the 22nd amendment is as follows.

    "No person shall be ELECTED to the office of the President more than twice..."

    getting elected is NOT the only way to become president. You can also become president via line of succession. Which means the House can name you as Speaker which puts you second in line of succession. Then if the president and vice-president both resign, you become "acting" president. The thing is, no-one expects that to ever happen on purpose, although some devoted members of Trumps camp could in theory do it to reinstall Trump as much as they like. In fact this whole thing by the republicans where they have begun destabilizing the office of Speaker by booting McCarthy could be seen as setting it up. Still, Trump is very very old and might die in office in the next 4 years if anything.
    He can't be president without being elected. How fucking DENSE are you? And he will never be speaker, being speaker requires him to actually do work, he would never do that.

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