1. #88161
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    The US is not a dictatorship (yet). There is quite a long long way to go before we have the GOP actively trying to push Trump back into WH for another term by abdicating the Presidency and VP for him.
    Especially when a key difference between the US and Putin is Trump would first have to get elected to the house. Then elected as speaker. And then either assassinate or hope both the President and VP die/get impeached and removed from office. While Trump has a death grip on hardcore Republicans most government workers, a majority of independents, and almost all democrats hate him. And his Republican support is showing cracks. It's not zero but it's infinitely closer to zero than not.

    In Russia Putin already controls basically the entire political process and the prime minister is appointed. So he already controlled the puppet president, the election process that got that president in office, and the state Durma that appointed him prime minister in-between terms because Russia only allows two consecutive terms at a time. Very very very different situations @alach.
    Last edited by shimerra; 2024-01-12 at 08:51 PM.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
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    The Bird of Hermes Is My Name, Eating My Wings To Make Me Tame.

  2. #88162
    Donald owes the NYT $400K.

    A judge in New York has ordered Donald Trump to fork over nearly $400,000 in legal fees underpinning a now-dismissed lawsuit he brought against the newspaper and a trio of its reporters when they published a bombshell series of reports on his history of tax schemes and “riches” reaped from his father.

    The order was first reported by Times reporter Susanne Craig, one of the report’s authors. Per the order, fees are also due to reporters David Barstow and Russ Buettner.

    The claim from Trump was dismissed by a New York Supreme Court judge last May, who found that reporters were “entitled to engage in legal and ordinary news-gathering activities without fear or tort liability — as their actions are at the very core of protected first amendment activity.”
    Apparently, filing meritless lawsuits is actually pretty expensive!

  3. #88163
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    I'm operating under the assumption that the judge is doing everything possible to avoid giving Trump's legal team the chance to appeal based on inappropriate or biased behavior by the judge.

    That is the only reason I can think of that makes letting Trump run wild during the trial make any sort of sense.
    That's my take on it too. Remains to be seen if that's accurate, of course.

  4. #88164
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Especially when a key difference between the US and Putin is Trump would first have to get elected to the house. Then elected as speaker. And then either assassinate or hope both the President and VP die/get impeached and removed from office. While Trump has a death grip on hardcore Republicans most government workers, a majority of independents, and almost all democrats hate him. And his Republican support is showing cracks. It's not zero but it's infinitely closer to zero than not.

    In Russia Putin already controls basically the entire political process and the prime minister is appointed. So he already controlled the puppet president, the election process that got that president in office, and the state Durma that appointed him prime minister in-between terms because Russia only allows two consecutive terms at a time. Very very very different situations @alach.
    And not jsut that...they'd also have already won the Presidency and Control the House...and then they abdicate the Presidency so they can take the Presidency?
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2024-01-12 at 09:05 PM.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  5. #88165
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Especially when a key difference between the US and Putin is Trump would first have to get elected to the house. Then elected as speaker. And then either assassinate or hope both the President and VP die/get impeached and removed from office. While Trump has a death grip on hardcore Republicans most government workers, a majority of independents, and almost all democrats hate him. And his Republican support is showing cracks. It's not zero but it's infinitely closer to zero than not.

    In Russia Putin already controls basically the entire political process and the prime minister is appointed. So he already controlled the puppet president, the election process that got that president in office, and the state Durma that appointed him prime minister in-between terms because Russia only allows two consecutive terms at a time. Very very very different situations @alach.
    Well actually...

    There is no law that says the Speaker of the House needs to be an elected member. A random civvy plucked off of the street can be speaker of the House so long as there is a majority willing to vote for them. (tho it would create some issues and could face a challenge in the Supreme Court)
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  6. #88166
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Well actually...

    There is no law that says the Speaker of the House needs to be an elected member. A random civvy plucked off of the street can be speaker of the House so long as there is a majority willing to vote for them. (tho it would create some issues and could face a challenge in the Supreme Court)
    Eh. Even with the cult appeal Trump has on the right I never see him getting picked as speaker without being a member of the house.

    And then I fall back on my master stroke to Alach's point and still mention that something terrible has to happen to the Pres and VP. And barring nuclear war the odds of that are stupidly low too. As I said before Trump's more likely to get hit by lightning twice and survive with the time he has left than that.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
    Ambrose Bierce
    The Bird of Hermes Is My Name, Eating My Wings To Make Me Tame.

  7. #88167
    Are Nickey Haley and the DEEP STATE manipulating the weather controlling the weather in Iowa to hurt Donald?

    It could be, according to certified insane person who once handcuffed herself to the front doors of Twitter to protest her ban, only to be left there largely ignored until she got bored and left, Laura Loomer.

    That was yesterday.

    Today?

    It was just a joke, y'all. Sure it was indistinguishable from the conspiracy theories and certifiably insane shit she says on the regular, but she was totes joking y'all.

    The Trump circle continues to be filled with very stable geniuses.

  8. #88168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Are Nickey Haley and the DEEP STATE manipulating the weather controlling the weather in Iowa to hurt Donald?

    It could be, according to certified insane person who once handcuffed herself to the front doors of Twitter to protest her ban, only to be left there largely ignored until she got bored and left, Laura Loomer.

    That was yesterday.

    Today?

    It was just a joke, y'all. Sure it was indistinguishable from the conspiracy theories and certifiably insane shit she says on the regular, but she was totes joking y'all.

    The Trump circle continues to be filled with very stable geniuses.
    The good 'ole Schrodinger's Racist/Conspiracy Nut. Say crazy/hateful shit, get called out, say "it's just a joke" to try and evade responsibility for being an enormous piece of shit.


  9. #88169
    If Nikki Haley can control the weather...setting her sights on being President of the US is really lacking in ambition.
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2024-01-13 at 03:02 AM.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  10. #88170
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Each time I think Trump is unpredictable, he does something so stupid in court even I could be a better lawyer. No, that's not hyperbole. I don't even think it's exaggerating by much.

    So Trump filed for another extension of the Carroll case. He did so by email, 3:59PM, just before the holiday weekend.

    The pressing legal grounds? Attending Melania's mother's funeral, which Trump scheduled for the 18th.

    Now...think poorly of me all you want, but yes, I am wiling to say Trump was using his wife's mother's funeral to delay the trial, to the point that I think he scheduled it on a Wednesday on purpose. I think such a callous move fits a narcissistic sociopath.

    The judge, of course, is not a narcissistic sociopath. While he expressed concerns that the 3:59PM email was suspicious, he also extended condolences to the family. But he also pointed out, tastefully I might add, that Trump's presence at the trial was not required. Further, the funeral is the 18th and the trial was supposed to resume the 16th. Trump wanted the 16th and 17th off, in addition to the 18th.

    That fat motherfucker has his own plane. Getting from Florida to New York and back is hardly new to him.

    "Surely even Trump is not this heartless."

    Hmm. Name one time in the last twelve months he's been seen with Melania. STOP RIGHT THERE I see you looking it up. Trump and Melania are not close. I think it's 100% in character for Trump to use his mother-in-law's funeral as an excuse.

    "He may be worried that skipping it will risk a rift with Melania during an election year. His poll numbers are already dropping, it's not a loss he can afford."

    You again! Well, let's find out. If Trump attends court either the 16th and/or the 17th, which he is not required to be there for, we know he was lying about needing to be in Florida instead. If he misses all three days and also attends the funeral, maybe we can consider him either a devoted, or at the least pretending to be devoted, husband.

    As a reminder, this is the court case in which Carroll recently said "Trump did that bullshit in his closing arguments, I'm filing a four-page motion to force him to play by the rules here". Trump has cried "wolf" too many times, and he's about to get the sheep kicked out of him.

  11. #88171
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Now...think poorly of me all you want, but yes, I am wiling to say Trump was using his wife's mother's funeral to delay the trial, to the point that I think he scheduled it on a Wednesday on purpose. I think such a callous move fits a narcissistic sociopath.

    "Surely even Trump is not this heartless."
    Friendly reminder that you are talking about a man who had one of his ex wives buried on one of his golf properties purely for tax benefits.

    Trump is the kind of person other Heartless Sociopath's only wish they could be.

  12. #88172
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Friendly reminder
    Indeed, the list of Trump's deplorable actions is vast indeed. The wife you mentioned? He cheated on her, married the mistress, cheated on her too. I will never know if Trump scheduled the funeral specifically to delay a court case involving a woman he raped, but I think the evidence exceeds a majority of doubt.

  13. #88173
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Friendly reminder that you are talking about a man who had one of his ex wives buried on one of his golf properties purely for tax benefits.

    Trump is the kind of person other Heartless Sociopath's only wish they could be.
    Damn I was going to post that

    Yes Trump is exactly that kind of person and everyone knows it.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  14. #88174
    Rudy's lawyers are pretty stupid. (Imgur link to the video) The judge immediately smacks down his lawyer's argument that Rudy can't be tried due to "double jeopardy," and the judge reminds them of how stupid that is to which the lawyer had to agree.

    Rudy Giuliani's attorney crashed and burned in court Friday, as he tried to file a motion to raise concerns about double jeopardy — and was immediately swatted down as the judge poked a very simple hole in his argument, noted legal analyst Katie Phang.

    Giuliani, a close associate of former President Donald Trump who served as a federal prosecutor and the mayor of New York City, is one of several co-defendants charged in the Fulton County, Georgia election racketeering case.

    "If I understand the argument, is it simply that other states could prosecute your client for the same predicate act?" asked the judge.

    "Yes, Judge," said the attorney. "For instance, our code in Georgia, you can't be sentenced for a RICO, the RICO, and the predicate act, but in Florida you can."

    "But how does that become a double jeopardy issue if all the states are separate sovereigns?" asked the judge. "I mean, couldn't you be convicted in every single state, all 50 states, if there was an issue, without any double jeopardy concerns whatsoever?"

    "You may have a point, Judge," conceded the attorney. "I mean, there may be something to that."

    Law professor Randall Eliason says he has the answer.

    "The solution to this," he said Friday, "is to not commit the same crime in multiple jurisdictions."

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  15. #88175
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    If Nikki Haley can control the weather...setting her sights on being President of the US is really lacking in ambition.
    Dammit! Those jewish space lazers are at it again! Someone call Magic the Ga- I mean Marjorie Taylor Green!

  16. #88176
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    Rudy Giuliani's attorney crashed and burned in court Friday, as he tried to file a motion to raise concerns about double jeopardy
    In the ongoing and alarming trend of "I could do better than that, no really, this is not hyperbole, this is not exaggeration, I the non-lawyer with no legal training would not have made this mistake" I believe I see what happened.

    Remember this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Now I admit, it is possible that I'm misreading some of these legal arguments -- Team Trump could be claiming that Trump has double jeopardy protection because he was unsuccessfully impeached. It doesn't read that way to me, but I'll admit I could be wrong.
    Team Trump raised an issue Jan 8th which mentioned the words "double jeopardy" and I believe Giuliani's lawyers saw that and said "well we can also raise double jeopardy".

    Of course, this bypasses multiple key issues.

    1) Giuliani was not impeached. Full stop. The best parallel in his case was being disbarred, and he didn't bring that up.
    2) Obviously the judge and Eliason are right. If I murder a sushi chef in California, cross the state line, and murder another one in Las Vegas, both states can and will take issue over the fact that I've murdered one of their residents. At best, I could beg the feds to arrest me for both, facing one trial for a double murder -- SCOTUS has ruled on that, the feds and California couldn't both try me for the same murder of the same person.
    3) And of course, the big one: double jeopardy does not apply to hypotheticals. You cannot claim immunity from prosecution under the grounds that "someone else might charge me later, and I have to clear my schedule for that". Double jeopardy does not even apply to charges being filed, you have to go to actual court. Charges get dropped all the time, it doesn't count as "risk". Related: refiling after a mistrial or hung jury also doesn't count. You probably knew that, but I find myself posting it because, clearly, at least one person needs a lesson.

    Extra note, double jeopardy doesn't seem to apply to lawsuits much. It looks like even the state itself can bring civil action for a crime you committed. So can the victims.

    I admit, the wording of the 5th Amendment is vague and centuries old. But even it's poor phrasing cannot possibly defend Giuliani's lawyers. Again, not exaggerating, I would not have made that mistake.

    - - - Updated - - -

    As a fan of NFL games, I am no stranger to piling on.

    WaPo takes issue with Trump's town hall too.

    Trump’s town hall featured many of the same false claims he makes on a daily basis, but there were two new ones that are worth of fact-checking. We suspect that, if he becomes the Republican presidential nominee, he will feature these falsehoods on a regular basis. They slip nicely into his narrative that President Biden has unleashed chaos around the globe.
    Specifically, Trump claimed while he was in the WH, there were no terrorist attacks and there were no wars.

    With regard to wars,

    I had no wars. I’m the only president in 72 years, I didn’t have any wars.
    If Trump is claiming he didn't start any new wars, then that 72 years claim is false, because neither did, say, Carter or Obama. Incidentally Carter never lost a single troop due to hostile enemy fire -- he lost 8 active-duty troops in the Iran hostage crisis, but it was because their helicopter crashed. Clinton lost 1. Trump lost 65 when going after ISIS. So, he's either lying about the 72 years, or lying about having wars.

    The terrorist claim is also trivial to disprove. Trump conveniently forgot about domestic terrorism.

  17. #88177
    The terrorist claim is also trivial to disprove. Trump conveniently forgot about domestic terrorism.
    To be fair, that's not a Trump thing, that's a Republican thing.
    Domestic terrorism is forgotten because 99% of all domestic terrorists in the US are Republicans

  18. #88178
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odinfrost View Post
    To be fair, that's not a Trump thing, that's a Republican thing.
    Well, yes, but also, more yes. But Trump lied about terrorist attacks while defending his Muslim ban. So, in this case, it was a Trump thing more than a Republican thing.

  19. #88179
    While I assume these guys are absolute garbage tier idiots as those are the only types to work with Rudy, since he's not gonna pay them and he's not the desirable kinda high-profile client, I honestly don't think they have anything else to argue than the most stupid, impossible longshot legal arguments for their client.

    Because really he's so thoroughly fucked that there's nothing to do but try to prevent him from making his situation worse, which isn't realistic either rofl.

  20. #88180
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yup, Engoron gave Donald exactly what he wanted.
    Maybe not so much after all. Because the appeals courts also saw it.

    “I think appellate courts don't like the institution of courts and justice and the rule of law impugned the way Trump does,” Columbia University Law Professor John Coffee noted in a phone interview. “If you keep saying everything in New York is a travesty, even though it's been done under the supervision of the appellate division, I don't think you make them happy.”

    That Trump has attacked Engoron and his principal law clerk, inviting a gag order and multiple sanctions, and has taken every opportunity to insult the judge in open court and the public sphere, hands the appellate court another justification to affirm, according to every expert interviewed for this article.

    “Anything that he did while in court is fair game, and also the things that he said out of court to be threatening to the judge and his clerk — all of that is fair game,” Snell said. “All of that is stuff that's definitely going to be considered as part of a pattern and practice of complete disrespect for the law in New York State.”

    James’s assistant Kevin Wallace used that rationale in his closing arguments, arguing that a heavy punishment is necessary because Trump still claims he’s “blameless.” In a five-minute courtroom tirade on Thursday, Trump cast himself as the victim of a political “witch hunt” supposedly engineered by President Joe Biden, even though it is a state case.

    “I can easily imagine Justice Engoron citing Trump’s flouting of the Court’s orders regarding the scope of his closing remarks to buttress whatever financial penalties and industry bar he imposes, stating that his conduct demonstrates the need for deterrence and incapacitation,” former federal prosecutor Mitchell Epner told The Messenger.
    Trump's closing may not have been under oath, but it was on the record.

    Incidentally, the same article suggested that Engoron is going to go light on Eric and Donnie Dum-Dum Jr. There wasn't a ton of evidence that they, specifically, knew about the fraud and were involved in it. Trump Org might take a hit, Trump himself might take a hit, but his two sons might be allowed to continue to do business in NYState.

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