Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

"Independents" = uninformed people who only hear what the biggest news articles are, and form their vague notions of political leanings for a given election on that. They've never heard the name MTG. They probably don't really recall who Mike Pence was. They got a "weird feeling" about Hillary they could never pin down. They're not really sure what Trump is accused of. They heard Biden made prices on things go up.

So if the headlines in the news are "Trump convicted of crime," they think "Oh damn he's a criminal." When they hear "Haley promises to pardon Trump," they think "who is this Haley person? Why is she pardoning a criminal? That doesn't sound right to me..."

Independents:

An overwhelming majority of independents (81%) continue to “lean” toward either the Republican Party or the Democratic Party. Among the public overall, 17% are Democratic-leaning independents, while 13% lean toward the Republican Party. Just 7% of Americans decline to lean toward a party, a share that has changed little in recent years. This is a long-standing dynamic that has been the subject of past analyses, both by Pew Research Center and others.

In their political attitudes and views of most issues, independents who lean toward a party are in general agreement with those who affiliate with the same party. For example, Republican-leaning independents are less supportive of Donald Trump than are Republican identifiers. Still, about 70% of GOP leaners approved of his job performance during his first two years in office. Democratic leaners, like Democrats, overwhelmingly disapprove of the president.

GOP-leaning Independents that were going to vote for Trump will likely still vote for Haley if for some reason she does get the nomination. GOP-leaning Independents that weren't going to vote for Trump may decide vote for Haley even if she does say she'll pardon Trump if convicted...because they generally prefer GOP policies to Dem Policies...they just didn't want another 4 years of President Trump.

Dem-leaning Independents were not likely to vote for Haley or Trump anyway... so the possibility of her Pardoning Trump if he is convicted isn't really a factor for them.

[Paranoid Android]

Trump would most likely pick a woman if only to shield himself when it comes to abortion issues.

It has to be a woman for some many reasons. Abortion is #1. The only problem is all Republican women are as crazy as the men. The soft measure is the perception that coming from a woman that Republicans own your body, comes across better(?).

Trump would love to have his VP f*ckable and Noem fits that so well. She is crazy on abortion and had some scandals. Funny how this won't effect her if she is picked. Funny enough Nikki Haley got smart on abortion and decided not to say the quiet stuff out loud about abortion, is the pick just on that alone.

Elise Stefanik I guess. Of course a New York politician but she is not from the "good" part of NY. Looking at you @Breccia. She sponsored a 15 week National ban on abortion. Umm is this "moderate' on the Republican side these days? Idk.

Only thing if he actually picks a crazy pick or goes against a woman is Trump is on that "burn this bitch down" mode. Meaning he just wants some loyalist who is so far up his ass it don't matter identity. Still believe the people behind the doors will steer him toward a woman, who once more helps on abortion.

[Redwyrm]

Nah they are fine with the token black guy or woman , you have to remember all these people have a minority friend or a girl that they totally dated.

If he does do the "Token" route can we scream "Trump Has Gone Woke"?

[Gorsameth]

Nah they are fine with the token black guy or woman , you have to remember all these people have a minority friend or a girl that they totally dated.

a friend without power sure. The VP? I doubt it

[Poopymonster]

It has to be a woman for some many reasons. Abortion is #1. The only problem is all Republican women are as crazy as the men. The soft measure is the perception that coming from a woman that Republicans own your body, comes across better(?).

Trump would love to have his VP f*ckable and Noem fits that so well. She is crazy on abortion and had some scandals. Funny how this won't effect her if she is picked. Funny enough Nikki Haley got smart on abortion and decided not to say the quiet stuff out loud about abortion, is the pick just on that alone.

Elise Stefanik I guess. Of course a New York politician but she is not from the "good" part of NY. Looking at you @Breccia. She sponsored a 15 week National ban on abortion. Umm is this "moderate' on the Republican side these days? Idk.

Only thing if he actually picks a crazy pick or goes against a woman is Trump is on that "burn this bitch down" mode. Meaning he just wants some loyalist who is so far up his ass it don't matter identity. Still believe the people behind the doors will steer him toward a woman, who once more helps on abortion.

Everyone remembers that classic documentary based on the 2008 Election "Who's Nailin Paylin?"

[diller]

An interesting phenomenon seems to be emerging in some of the international media that I'm following.

At least in Spain, Germany and the UK a 2nd Trump term is increasingly being discussed not just as possible, but rather as probable.

The Democrats really need to pull their shit together and start campaigning yesterday.

They are saying that based on the polls from the US, it's not their own conclusions, nothing really strange about it.

[Ivanstone]

Still believe the people behind the doors will steer him toward a woman, who once more helps on abortion.

Trump regularly hired women for his businesses. Partially because he wants someone pretty. Partially because he assumed women wouldn't push back against his ideas.

[bladeXcrasher]

I’m gonna go ahead and say this is both demeaning and factually incorrect.

EVERYONE should be independent. It’s only partisans who forgive everything from either side.

I’m not American, but I lean democratic (for what I believe are obvious reasons). In politics I believe in ideas though, not in teams.

Lets not forget there ARE legitimate reasons to want to vote republican. Illegal immigration IS a problem where both sides profer different solutions, the promotion of the traditional family is a point of contention, etc.

The fact there’s only room for 2 parties is hugely detrimental to the USA…

Illegal immigration isn't a problem, immigration processing is a problem, largely due to...you guessed it, Republicans.

[Draco-Onis]

a friend without power sure. The VP? I doubt it

Just has to find a blind follower there are enough of them in the house and Senate to pick from maybe someone he has leverage over like Tim Scott. It's pretty obvious he is gay and is trying to hide it to make himself VP material.

[The Stormbringer]

"Independents" = uninformed people who only hear what the biggest news articles are, and form their vague notions of political leanings for a given election on that. They've never heard the name MTG. They probably don't really recall who Mike Pence was. They got a "weird feeling" about Hillary they could never pin down. They're not really sure what Trump is accused of. They heard Biden made prices on things go up.

So if the headlines in the news are "Trump convicted of crime," they think "Oh damn he's a criminal." When they hear "Haley promises to pardon Trump," they think "who is this Haley person? Why is she pardoning a criminal? That doesn't sound right to me..."

As someone who registered as an Independent at 18 and never felt compelled to change that, maybe y'all should stop trying to pigeonhole "Independents". While true that I vote Dem whenever I cast a ballot that's only because the only other option is generally GOP--which is objectively worse. So mayyyyybe fuck off with the grossly inaccurate generalizations?

Why haven't I ever changed affiliation to Democrat since I vote for Democrats? Simple, I'm more progressive than them for the most part and find that they as a party are just as beholden to big business/Wall Street and other richie rich shit as the GOP...and that's not palatable to me. For the record, I'd totally vote for a third party candidate who was more progressive than the Dems if I thought any had a chance in the fucked up 2-party system of ours. They don't, however, so I don't. Can't let perfect be the enemy of good--regardless of how incrementally small the "good" may be in many cases.

Gonna have to side with Benggaul here on this one, Kaleredar. I think what you're referring to are "unnamed conservatives". I'm an independent voter, but have been voting Democrat for years and years now, because it's the only viable option that's not entirely dogshit. I'm far more progressive than the majority of Dems, wanting things like a UBI, universal healthcare, free college, abortion access, affordable housing, greener energy, heavily regulated markets, etcetera etcetera.

Maybe this is like a bell curve thing, where the vast majority of so-called "Independents" are just avoiding being tarnished by association with the name of the party they always vote for, and barely educate themselves in the ongoing of politics, but people on the fringes act differently. Dunno.

- - - Updated - - -

Illegal immigration isn't a problem, immigration processing is a problem, largely due to...you guessed it, Republicans.

Illegal immigration isn't the problem, it's people willing and eager to hire illegal immigrants off-the-books and pay them under-the-table a ridiculously small wage, rather than hiring actual citizens do to the labor at full price. As long as we have factories and farms and construction companies and everything else inbetween ready and waiting to get their hands on that cheap, cheap labor, people will come. Because despite making shit pay and living in cramped conditions, they can still make a huge difference for themselves or their families by working here.

EDIT: (But yes, immigration processing is also a problem too, for other reasons.)

[Breccia]

Elise Stefanik I guess. Of course a New York politician but she is not from the "good" part of NY. Looking at you @Breccia. She sponsored a 15 week National ban on abortion. Umm is this "moderate' on the Republican side these days?

Stefanik is no longer a moderate. She has gone full Trump cultist. As someone who lives in Redneckville, NY, I can tell you it feels like, yes, there's a fair amount of cultists here, but also some Republicans who just shrug and accept that only cultists have any chance of winning, so they vote for cultists.

She's a good fit for his campaign, but taking her will not get Trump to carry NY. NYC would rather vote for a literal sewer rat than Trump.

[Odinfrost]

Stefanik is no longer a moderate. She has gone full Trump cultist. As someone who lives in Redneckville, NY, I can tell you it feels like, yes, there's a fair amount of cultists here, but also some Republicans who just shrug and accept that only cultists have any chance of winning, so they vote for cultists.

She's a good fit for his campaign, but taking her will not get Trump to carry NY. NYC would rather vote for a literal sewer rat than Trump.

Hmm, since you're from there, can you explain to me why the entire state absolutely loathes the man?
Like, has been loathing him for decades loathing

[Lenonis]

If he goes to prison then his cult will turn out in droves for Haley...because she'll pardon him if she wins.

Incorrect. If Trump goes to prison then his cult will turn out in droves for Trump. Because he'll pardon himself if he wins.

Stop thinking logic applies to these people.

[Breccia]

Hmm, since you're from there, can you explain to me why the entire state absolutely loathes the man?
Like, has been loathing him for decades loathing

Besides the usual -- tax cheat, thief, cheats on his wife, etc. -- Trump pissed all over NYC by taking a bunch of properties for the super rich and making them completely tasteless. He did nothing but take and take, and kept everything.

The fact that the people who knew Trump best hated Trump should have been a 2016 wake-up call.

[bladeXcrasher]

Illegal immigration isn't the problem, it's people willing and eager to hire illegal immigrants off-the-books and pay them under-the-table a ridiculously small wage, rather than hiring actual citizens do to the labor at full price. As long as we have factories and farms and construction companies and everything else inbetween ready and waiting to get their hands on that cheap, cheap labor, people will come. Because despite making shit pay and living in cramped conditions, they can still make a huge difference for themselves or their families by working here.

EDIT: (But yes, immigration processing is also a problem too, for other reasons.)

Those people aren't illegal either, they are exploited due to terrible immigrant processing. These people come to the US legally in the vast majority of cases.

[Benggaul]

Hmm, since you're from there, can you explain to me why the entire state absolutely loathes the man?
Like, has been loathing him for decades loathing

Oof, how much time you got? It's a pretty big list. The caveat would be that it's primarily New York City that hates every cell in his fat, bloated body. The TL;DR of it all would be he's lived in New York most of his life--born in Queens, later stomped around Manhattan--and has spent that time ruining lives, skipping out on paying bills and generally self-aggrandizing to the point nobody in the city could stand him. Check out his relation to the Central Park Five case as an example of how this narcissistic windbag used his money and fame to push racist bullshit.

[Resurgo]

Grew up in Queens myself, saw his name and scandals plastered over the Daily News and NY Post growing up… hated him even before the Apprentice.

[Breccia]

Well, let's check in on the Carroll case.

You're saying she should be punished because she deleted tweets that would be helpful to her?

-- the judge, to Habba

As expected, I see. Habba was trying to say there was insufficient proof of causation between Trump's defamatory statements and the damage inflicted on his victim, but the judge had to remind her the case was past that point. Again.

And then Habba said this was all Soros. The judge was not a fan of that, either.

I mention this because Trump is, in theory, expected to testify. Trump taking the stand is a ridiculously bad idea. Remember, this is not a step in the trial where he can claim nothing happened and that Carroll lied. Trump has as much self control as a golden retriever in a bacon warehouse, and his lawyers keep quitting because he keeps doing stupid shit (see also: this entire trial). I think Trump has been fanning the flames of this rumor, only to pretend "someone" won't let him testify, even though he really super serial wants to you gaiz!

[Elder Millennial]

Oof, how much time you got? It's a pretty big list. The caveat would be that it's primarily New York City that hates every cell in his fat, bloated body. The TL;DR of it all would be he's lived in New York most of his life--born in Queens, later stomped around Manhattan--and has spent that time ruining lives, skipping out on paying bills and generally self-aggrandizing to the point nobody in the city could stand him. Check out his relation to the Central Park Five case as an example of how this narcissistic windbag used his money and fame to push racist bullshit.

Not to mention the NY courts have spent the last 40 years going from dealing with one Trump civil suit to another.

From the 1970s until he was elected president in 2016, Donald Trump and his businesses were involved in over 4,000 legal cases in U.S. federal and state courts, including battles with casino patrons, million-dollar real estate lawsuits, personal defamation lawsuits, and over 100 business tax disputes.[1] He has also been accused of sexual harassment and sexual assault,[2][3] with one accusation resulting in Trump being held civilly liable.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person...f_Donald_Trump

This is just BEFORE 2016. Like I'm 100% sure there are people in the NY court system who spent most of their careers dealing with Donald fucking Trump.

Like there are oil companies and banks out there that have spent less time of their existence in litigation.

[Breccia]

Like there are oil companies and banks out there that have spent less time of their existence in litigation.

To be fair, most oil companies don't go bankrupt six times and start a phony school.