Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Paranoid Android]

The verdict is in: Trump must pay $355 million, nearly the maximum, in the NY fraud case.



I don't know where or how it could be renewed. He made his decision, the trial is over.

This is when I would have been the asshole and say "act like an ass in court. Here is the max of $370 mother bleeper".

@Kathranis. Thanks

[Gorsameth]

Am I the only one that looks at "you knowingly committed fraud, please don't sit on a board for 3 years" as weird? Is there any reason why a lifetime ban is not the minimum other then "rich people shouldn't suffer the consequences of their actions"?

[Edge-]

Am I the only one that looks at "you knowingly committed fraud, please don't sit on a board for 3 years" as weird? Is there any reason why a lifetime ban is not the minimum other then "rich people shouldn't suffer the consequences of their actions"?

I imagine it's related to our weird sentencing/judgement guidelines and whatnot.

But yeah, sure seems like it should warrant a considerably longer ban and all. But 3 years is a pretty long time for an old guy that eats a lot of fast food and is a bit obese.

[Endus]

Am I the only one that looks at "you knowingly committed fraud, please don't sit on a board for 3 years" as weird? Is there any reason why a lifetime ban is not the minimum other then "rich people shouldn't suffer the consequences of their actions"?

Grab $500 from the till when the cashier's distracted and run? 2-5 years in prison.

Hundreds of millions in fraud? Give the money back and you're not allowed to do that kind of business for a few years.

The American legal system is not about justice. It's about protecting class divides.

[Paranoid Android]

Am I the only one that looks at "you knowingly committed fraud, please don't sit on a board for 3 years" as weird? Is there any reason why a lifetime ban is not the minimum other then "rich people shouldn't suffer the consequences of their actions"?

It's called "we kiss rich people's ass". Goodness forbid rich people get more than a slap on the wrist. Be poor and steal a snickers though, multiple years in jail.

[Poopymonster]

I imagine it's related to our weird sentencing/judgement guidelines and whatnot.

But yeah, sure seems like it should warrant a considerably longer ban and all. But 3 years is a pretty long time for an old guy that eats a lot of fast food and is a bit obese.

Those guidelines are so outdated. But if they updated them we'd end up with "Sure you can write the rules for what happens when you fuck up. We trust you."

[Breccia]

Am I the only one that looks at "you knowingly committed fraud, please don't sit on a board for 3 years" as weird? Is there any reason why a lifetime ban is not the minimum other then "rich people shouldn't suffer the consequences of their actions"?

I suspect the judge couldn't put enough of the blame directly on Trump. Enough of his underlings committed enough crimes to take a figurative bullet.

These penalties are severe enough, I hope. Being kicked off boards just before the election? The loss of $355 million he can't afford? Loss of control of his own businesses? It might not be a kill shot, but it's a severe wound. It'll have to do.

[Poopymonster]

I suspect the judge couldn't put enough of the blame directly on Trump. Enough of his underlings committed enough crimes to take a figurative bullet.

These penalties are severe enough, I hope. Being kicked off boards just before the election? The loss of $355 million he can't afford? Loss of control of his own businesses? It might not be a kill shot, but it's a severe wound. It'll have to do.

We are proud to name the new head of clusterfuck Trumpdustries...Barron Trump.
You can even see an orange smudged hand sticking out of his rectum.

[Paranoid Android]

I suspect the judge couldn't put enough of the blame directly on Trump. Enough of his underlings committed enough crimes to take a figurative bullet.

These penalties are severe enough, I hope. Being kicked off boards just before the election? The loss of $355 million he can't afford? Loss of control of his own businesses? It might not be a kill shot, but it's a severe wound. It'll have to do.

Ooh Big Question though, if elected is there a stay/pause on this? I'm 99% sure. Plus the board thing is sorta meh. Win or lose Trump as you stated will grift in many ways and whatever he has to do to incorporate in Florida or whatever. Plus, I'm sure no NY boards want him anyways. Even the most ass kissing person, just wouldn't even go there.

The fine is enough as you stated.

[Breccia]

We are proud to name the new head of clusterfuck Trumpdustries...Barron Trump.

You joke...but this could actually end up killing Trump's campaign and possibly the person. If Barron/Melania had that kind of power, they could simply cut Trump off, and leave him. I've personally posted articles suggesting Melania is only with Trump until Barron is on his feet. Handing him Trump Org would do that and far more.

Imagine the damage if, during the 2024 campaign, not only does Melania file for divorce (and publicly admit she knew about Trump's many whores) but also Trump finds himself outplayed by a woman and a child. Imagine the humiliation, the jokes, let alone the loss of the only qualification he even pretended to have. He can't even pay his own legal bills, how would he survive that? The stress might literally kill him.

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I'm sure no NY boards want him anyways.

I think that's also so he can't just create Trump Org II.

As for the stay part? I'm still chewing my way through this document. I can tell you the word "election" does not appear.

EDIT: But I will add this exact quote:

The Court has also considered the simple touchstones of self-interest and other motives, common sense, and overall veracity.

I speak enough legal-ese to say, Engoron was saying "I know a fucking liar when I see one".

[Paranoid Android]

You joke...but this could actually end up killing Trump's campaign and possibly the person. If Barron/Melania had that kind of power, they could simply cut Trump off, and leave him. I've personally posted articles suggesting Melania is only with Trump until Barron is on his feet. Handing him Trump Org would do that and far more.

Imagine the damage if, during the 2024 campaign, not only does Melania file for divorce (and publicly admit she knew about Trump's many whores) but also Trump finds himself outplayed by a woman and a child. Imagine the humiliation, the jokes, let alone the loss of the only qualification he even pretended to have. He can't even pay his own legal bills, how would he survive that? The stress might literally kill him.

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I think that's also so he can't just create Trump Org II.

As for the stay part? I'm still chewing my way through this document. I can tell you the word "election" does not appear.

EDIT: But I will add this exact quote:



I speak enough legal-ese to say, Engoron was saying "I know a fucking liar when I see one".

Is this a new tv show? Ala, Succession; where mother and son plot to overthrow the incompetent, crazy, egomaniacal, narcissist who is ruining the family business.

I mean you have an immigrant wife who sometimes and secretly acts as the submissive wife, but plots with her own blood son, who just want to play basketball. You have the three evil step children plotting with their father or maybe against.

I think we have a new HBO show here Breccia.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I find it fitting that Ivanka is the only one to avoid penalties in this. She has always struck me as the least-stupid of the Trump children, barring Baron of course since the dude is like just 18 or something now and apparently his dad doesn't even like him.

To be fair, i don't think Trump likes any of his kids. I mean, I know he wants to stick it in Ivanka...but I don't know if that's the same thing as actually liking her as a person. Might be as close as Trump gets though.

Barron is still too young for Trump to find a use for.

[Breccia]

Oh, also?

The Court hereby enjoins Donald Trump and the Trump Organization and its affiliates from
applying for loans from any financial institution chartered by or registered with the New York
State Department of Financial Services for a period of three years.

This folds in with another consequence: Trump Org isn't dissolved, but the LLCs he used to cheat loans to himself are. (If they aren't, then Engoron can just shut everything down) "Cheat loans to himself" is like thirty pages of this decision.

Now, first of all, Trump not being able to get loans during the election is pretty fucking massive.

Second of all, a lot of this (like I said) involved Trump cheating the system, but different companies are, in fact, allowed to make loans to other companies, even if they share board members, interests, etc. LLCs are good dumping grounds for this sort of thing. Trump won't be able to restructure to get out of this.

And third, NYState has some brutal loan-watching laws.

So, remember a few years back, Montel Williams was advertising payday loans all the fucking time? I sure did. I also saw the fine print said "not in New York" and I thought "well shit, there's a reason for that!" New York State fucking hates predatory loans and made them illegal. That's not just payday loans, but other high rate loans most often associated with Cousin Nicky Ovah Heah.

What does this mean?

Most normal banks would be licensed in New York. Trump will be prohibited from using those. Instead, he'll have to go to banks that aren't licensed in New York -- and those could include banks with worse rates and worse conditions. Even if it's just some bank that didn't bother to get licensing in NYState, at this point, every bank on the fucking planet is looking at the result of this trial and all the honest ones are saying "there is no fucking way we're lending money to the guy convicted of fraud and about to go bankrupt" and the rest are saying the same thing, but adding, "unless we get to apply harsh, even vindictive, terms to the contract, along the lines of 'pick which thumb you like best' or 'we get Melania and you have to watch' etc"

This decision is filled with terms and prescedent and stuff I'm sure I'm not an expert on, but I'm not seeing anything in here which is actually Trump-friendly. Even being shot in body armor hurts.

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I think we have a new HBO show here Breccia.

Makes sense, it'll make Trump MAX out his credit cards.

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Legal cases are supposed to be decided based on the application of established legal principles to the actual evidence. During 44 days of trial, not one witness, not one complaint, and not one victim supported the Attorney General’s manufactured claims of ‘fraud.’

-- Kise, one of Trump's lawyers

Kise must not have been paying attention to the trial he was part of. I found a witness list in seconds. Also, as was pointed out over and over in the courtroom he was standing in at the time, NYState is themselves the victim when you cheat on your taxes by lying about asset value. Oh, and again, paying back the loans you cheated to get doesn't mean you didn't cheat. The people you used fraud to obtain unfairly good loans from? They're victims.

Habba is also taking to the airwaves -- it's not like she could win in the courtroom so why not -- but has been saying the same stupid shit. Witch hunt, I did nothing wrong, abuse, tyrant, this is what Trump would do if he was elected again, etc.

[Gorsameth]

Oh, also?



This folds in with another consequence: Trump Org isn't dissolved, but the LLCs he used to cheat loans to himself are. (If they aren't, then Engoron can just shut everything down) "Cheat loans to himself" is like thirty pages of this decision.

Now, first of all, Trump not being able to get loans during the election is pretty fucking massive.

Second of all, a lot of this (like I said) involved Trump cheating the system, but different companies are, in fact, allowed to make loans to other companies, even if they share board members, interests, etc. LLCs are good dumping grounds for this sort of thing. Trump won't be able to restructure to get out of this.

And third, NYState has some brutal loan-watching laws.

So, remember a few years back, Montel Williams was advertising payday loans all the fucking time? I sure did. I also saw the fine print said "not in New York" and I thought "well shit, there's a reason for that!" New York State fucking hates predatory loans and made them illegal. That's not just payday loans, but other high rate loans most often associated with Cousin Nicky Ovah Heah.

What does this mean?

Most normal banks would be licensed in New York. Trump will be prohibited from using those. Instead, he'll have to go to banks that aren't licensed in New York -- and those could include banks with worse rates and worse conditions. Even if it's just some bank that didn't bother to get licensing in NYState, at this point, every bank on the fucking planet is looking at the result of this trial and all the honest ones are saying "there is no fucking way we're lending money to the guy convicted of fraud and about to go bankrupt" and the rest are saying the same thing, but adding, "unless we get to apply harsh, even vindictive, terms to the contract, along the lines of 'pick which thumb you like best' or 'we get Melania and you have to watch' etc"

This decision is filled with terms and prescedent and stuff I'm sure I'm not an expert on, but I'm not seeing anything in here which is actually Trump-friendly. Even being shot in body armor hurts.

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Makes sense, it'll make Trump MAX out his credit cards.

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-- Kise, one of Trump's lawyers

Kise must not have been paying attention to the trial he was part of. I found a witness list in seconds. Also, as was pointed out over and over in the courtroom he was standing in at the time, NYState is themselves the victim when you cheat on your taxes by lying about asset value. Oh, and again, paying back the loans you cheated to get doesn't mean you didn't cheat. The people you used fraud to obtain unfairly good loans from? They're victims.

Habba is also taking to the airwaves -- it's not like she could win in the courtroom so why not -- but has been saying the same stupid shit. Witch hunt, I did nothing wrong, abuse, tyrant, this is what Trump would do if he was elected again, etc.

No 'normal' bank wanted to loan to Trump before, that's why he had to go to Deutche Bank.

Outside of loaning to himself via shell companies I doubt that ban is going to actually do much.

[Edge-]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-ne...han-oj-simpson

Reacting to the eye-popping judgment, Fox News anchor Martha MacCallum was beside herself over the punishment that the current GOP presidential frontrunner received. Speaking to Fox News Sunday anchor Shannon Bream and conservative pundit Ari Fleischer, MacCallum brought up Trump’s other criminal charges to suggest he has been unfairly maligned.

“When you think about 91 indictments against this individual,” she said. “Shannon, just looking at other civil cases which have a monetary price tag on them. As I said, this is not a criminal case here.”

MacCallum continued: “I looked back. O.J. Simpson was found civilly liable in the deaths of two people, his wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend, who was at the property at the time. $33 million. In the deaths of two human beings in one of the most high-profile cases in American history. What do you think about that?”

Bream agreed, saying there were “clearly victims in that case” before asserting that “nobody complained” over the Trump fraud allegations. “Everyone got paid back,” she added. “So regardless of how you feel about the outcome, when the former president and his supporters have this argument that it’s political, it looks that way.”

They would also argue that this massive judgment against Trump, along with the other criminal indictments he’s currently facing, will only help his political fortunes moving forward. Fleischer, after calling New York a “legal banana republic,” also suggested that conservatives could make all the federal cases go away by merely electing Trump.

“If Donald Trump wins re-election, he will be able to tell his attorney general to drop all of those federal charges,” he said. “How will that decision get made? If the American people elect Donald Trump, that’s what will happen. If they elect Biden, those will continue.”

Fox News, complaining that Donald was treated worse than O.J. Simpson.

And these are supposed to be their like..."serious" news anchors, not their "entertainment hosts" like Hannity and Ingraham and Watters.

[Breccia]

Outside of loaning to himself via shell companies I doubt that ban is going to actually do much.

Funny story: Trump kept claiming that all his actions were fair because he repaid all the loans, and that the loaners were okay with it. Now, he'll be stuck on the other end -- a bank could offer a loan with insultingly harsh consequences, but then say "it's not predatory, it's not illegal, you'll pay it back".

This will do much. Whoever he goes to for a loan will require ironclad contracts that dramatically favor them, and a pair of court-appointed monitors will be watching. Trump will have to pay, and through his own statements, have to say he wasn't a victim when he does.

[Edge-]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/u...-evidence.html

More than three years after a swirl of conspiracy theories that the 2020 election was stolen culminated in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, the originators of many of the false allegations are now being forced to admit — some under oath — that there is no evidence to back up their outlandish claims.

On Wednesday, lawyers from the conservative group True the Vote admitted to a state judge in Georgia that they did not have evidence to back up their allegation about illegal “ballot trafficking” in the state during the 2020 election and the 2021 Senate runoffs.

And earlier this month, James O’Keefe, the former leader of Project Veritas, issued a statement after one of its sources recanted his story about fraud in Erie, Pa. “I am aware of no evidence or other allegation that election fraud occurred in the Erie Post Office during the 2020 Presidential Election,” Mr. O’Keefe said.

The admissions are familiar. The conspirators of many other false theories about the 2020 election, when forced to provide evidence that would hold up in court, similarly could not.

In the days immediately after the 2020 election, Rudolph W. Giuliani, then a lawyer for Mr. Trump, claimed that the election was “an absolute fraud.” Days later, under questioning by a Pennsylvania judge, he conceded, “This is not a fraud case.” Last year, Mr. Giuliani admitted that public comments he made saying that two Georgia election workers committed ballot fraud were false.

The falsehoods have come with consequences. Former President Donald J. Trump and 19 of his allies were indicted on multiple charges for their efforts to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia. Fox News agreed to pay $787.5 million to settle defamation claims over the network’s promotion of misinformation about Dominion election machines during the 2020 election. Mr. Giuliani was ordered to pay $148 million in damages to the two election workers.

Mr. Giuliani was among some election deniers who, in private, admitted that evidence was lacking.

“We’ve got lots of theories,” he told the leader of the Arizona Legislature after the 2020 election, according to testimony from the Jan. 6 committee. “We just don’t have the evidence.”

The admission by True the Vote that it did not have any evidence of ballot trafficking further undermined the claims that formed the basis for the debunked voter fraud film “2,000 Mules.” The movie, despite its false claims, reached a wide audience.

And even though the false conspiracy theories are continually repudiated, Mr. Trump carries on perpetuating the election lies in his campaign speeches and public appearances.

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The mess of conspiracy theories about stolen and rigged elections has become dogma to a large faction of the conservative base, irreparably damaging their trust in the nation’s electoral system and spawning an election denialism movement that has overwhelmed large parts of the Republican Party apparatus.

As of August, nearly 70 percent of Republican voters did not believe President Biden’s victory in 2020 was legitimate, according to a poll conducted by CNN. In June, a poll from Monmouth University found that 30 percent of Americans believe Mr. Biden won in 2020 only because of voter fraud.

The two polls were conducted after numerous conspiracy theories about the 2020 election were proven false in courts, making it unlikely that the further repudiation of 2020 falsehoods will have much of an effect on the 2024 election.

That may be partly because voters in the current hyper-polarized climate are drawn to excuses for losses, such as cheating, said Matthew Germer, the governance director at R Street Institute, a conservative organization. Another factor: These lies make money for the liars.

“Conspiracy theories are great for fund-raising, and terrible for democracy,” Mr. Germer said. “And that, again, is preying on our tendencies to want to be on a winning side.”

He added, “I’m optimistic that the more of these conspiracies that crumble, that it undermines the credibility of those who are promulgating them.”

“People can really only put up with so much,” he said. “But I guess it remains to be seen where those limits lie and how long it can last.”

NYT looks back at some of the big election deniers and how they appear to be faring.

True the Vote? Well they don't have evidence for any of their claims at all. Just some dude they didn't get the name of making some claims.

O'Keefe? His "source" recanted his story and O'Keefe has admitted he has no evidence.

Rudi? Admitted that there was no fraud, and now owes tens of millions.

Things are not going well for election deniers and MAGA types when the courts get involved in these claims and ask them to actually produce any evidence supporting them.

Because unsurprisingly, it appears these are all lies that are voluntarily spun and told by these individuals, who only apologize for their behavior when ordered to by a court.

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Additionally...

HAPPY DWAC X TRUMP MEDIA & TECHNOLOGY GROUP MERGER DAY!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-m...approval-spac/

The funding partner for Trump Media & Technology Group said it has received regulatory approval from securities regulators that will allow it to proceed with a long-delayed merger. The combination could provide former President Donald Trump with a stake worth almost $4 billion.

Digital World Acquisition Corp. (DWAC), a so-called special-purpose acquisition company, said Thursday in a statement that the Securities and Exchange Commission had signed off on its proposed merger with Trump Media. DWAC said it plans to announce within two days a date for shareholders to vote on the deal.

The SEC said it doesn't comment on individual issuers. Shares of DWAC jumped $6.63, or 15.2%, to $50.18 in early afternoon trading.

Clearing this regulatory hurdle amounts to a major win for Trump and his media business, which runs the conservative-leaning Truth Social platform. The merger has been in the works since October 2021, but had stalled because of regulatory concerns and other roadblocks.

The plan has been for DWAC to merge with Trump Media, providing the former president's fledgling business with capital to expand its operations. But as the merger process dragged on, DWAC returned hundreds of millions of financing commitments to investors.

If the merger is completed, Trump would own nearly 79 million shares in the new business, or as much as 69% of the combined company, a DWAC filing shows. That stake could be worth as much as $3.95 billion based on DWAC's stock price on Thursday.

"Moving forward, we aim to accelerate our work to build a free speech highway outside the stifling stranglehold of Big Tech," said Trump Media CEO Devin Nunes, a former Republican House member, in the statement accompanying DWAC's announcement about securing SEC approval to move forward with the deal.

For the first nine months of 2023, Trump Media had revenue of $3.4 million, up from $237,000 in the year-ago period.

$4B!

Well, he'll have no excuses to say he can't afford to pay his lawyers or legal fines or damages now!

[Rasulis]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/u...-evidence.html



NYT looks back at some of the big election deniers and how they appear to be faring.

True the Vote? Well they don't have evidence for any of their claims at all. Just some dude they didn't get the name of making some claims.

O'Keefe? His "source" recanted his story and O'Keefe has admitted he has no evidence.

Rudi? Admitted that there was no fraud, and now owes tens of millions.

Things are not going well for election deniers and MAGA types when the courts get involved in these claims and ask them to actually produce any evidence supporting them.

Because unsurprisingly, it appears these are all lies that are voluntarily spun and told by these individuals, who only apologize for their behavior when ordered to by a court.

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Additionally...

HAPPY DWAC X TRUMP MEDIA & TECHNOLOGY GROUP MERGER DAY!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-m...approval-spac/



$4B!

Well, he'll have no excuses to say he can't afford to pay his lawyers or legal fines or damages now!

What kind of nutcase would pay 4B for a company with revenue (not profit) of 3.4M?

Also, 3.4M revenue is chintzy. The typical McDonald franchise generated that much in 2022 and cost a tiny fraction of that.

McDonald’s franchise revenue on average, a McDonald’s franchise makes $3,505,000 in sales per year (+5% s. 2021). This amount is the median sales of 11,746 franchised restaurants operating in 2022.

[Breccia]

$4B!

Well, he'll have no excuses to say he can't afford to pay his lawyers or legal fines or damages now!

I feel there is no reasonable situation in which Truth Social is worth billions. It has no traffic and no income. But, yep, yet another scam company Trump will start which will collapse the second he leaves with all their money.

[Edge-]

This is not a good week for Star Republican Witnesses. First you have House Republicans star Hunter witness charged for lying to the FBI about the Burisma affair that's the entire basis for the Republican inquiry.

Now?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...trump-georgia/

In a motion last week, Merchant claimed Bradley would “refute” claims by Willis and Wade that their romantic relationship did not begin until after Nov. 1, 2021 — the date he was appointed to lead the Trump investigation. But Bradley repeatedly testified that he had “no personal knowledge” of when their relationship began — a claim that visibly frustrated Merchant and other defense attorneys who strongly implied that Bradley had relayed different information in his earlier communications with Merchant.

Merchant, lawyer for one of the co-defendents in the Georgia case who is trying to get Willis tossed over this relationship, seems to be running into similar problems to House Republicans where the witness that's supposed to "confirm all the crimes and dates" does not confirm the crimes and dates. Bradley is the witness, another lawyer.

Special prosecutor Anna Cross, who is leading efforts to help Willis retain control of the case, accused Merchant and Bradley of trading “gossip” and “hearsay,” as lawyers from both sides battled for hours over what Bradley could and could not testify about. The back and forth came after Bradley, who briefly testified Thursday morning, failed to appear Friday morning for scheduled testimony. His attorney claimed that Bradley had a medical appointment.

But McAfee, a typically opaque presence on the bench, was visibly annoyed, telling the attorney that Bradley had not previously informed the court about a medical visit and warned that he was in potential violation of his subpoena.

Sounds like he was supposed to be back today but mysteriously forgot about a medical appointment.

Again, not going well for #TeamMAGA