Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

That very much does not sound like a thing.

Hmf...something about NY civil procedures I think...bah! Trump team still likely in the wrong anyway.

UPDATE: Actual experts are discussing this in public and said what you expected them to say.

I have compared the language of the Attorney General’s proposed judgment to the language of my February 16, 2024 Decision and Order, and the former exactly tracks the latter (except for the addition of defendants’ addresses and blanks for interest amounts)

Shit, that was the judge. Hold on, this was the experts.

According to legal news site Law & Crime, James' proposal was mostly a formality and "constructed out of legal boilerplate" as "[p]roposed orders are frequently filed by the parties in legal cases as a matter of course."

"Trump's lawyers, angry that Judge Engoron is apparently not going to allow motion practice on reducing his opinion to a formal judgment, demands a 30-day stay of any entered judgment instead," MSNBC legal analyst Lisa Rubin wrote on X/Twitter. "Shocked."

"What does that last part even mean?"

Okay, not a lawyer, but...I think it means this: Engoron said he how he was going to rule based on the case, Team Trump wanted to file a bunch of useless-ass motions to stop/delay it, Engoron said he would not allow that, and now Team Trump is instead just flat-out asking for a delay -- which filing a bunch of useless-ass motions would have done.

In other words, I don't see a pressing reason why Engoron, thoroughly sick of this shit, would give Team Trump, who has done nothing but disrespect him since day one, any unfair, undue, unwarranted advantages based on literally nothing, when what NYState has done is a standard form fitting the standard time table. Even I found the 30 day limit. Plus, see that opening statement I quoted "by mistake".

Team Trump's reasoning behind the extension is that the AG, who won, filed standard paperwork the judge asked for, but didn't give Team Trump the chance to do any edits or change anything.

[T]he Attorney General has now taken it upon herself to submit a proposed judgment to the Clerk of the Court without notice to the Defendants and without conferring with Defendants’ counsel, clearly hoping that the Clerk will issue the Proposed Judgment before Defendants even have a chance to review it, let alone submit a proposed counter-judgment. This conduct not only violates the February 16 Decision, but it is clearly designed and intended to prejudice the Defendants.

"Wait, can they do that?"

Well, no, that's what losing in court does for you. You don't get to decide how much you actually lost.

"What about offering another number, and hoping they take it?"

That's called "settling out of court" and Trump didn't do that.

"Okay, but what about review?"

For what purpose? Seriously, what does looking it over do if you can't change anything?

"Could Engoron grant the extension, just to prove to the appeals courts that Trump had literally every chance available? You know, making sure there's no possible overturning here?"

The 30-day deadline is built into NY law. There is no mandate for an extension. Plus, Habba was on the news the very next day saying how easy it would be for Trump with his many much cashes to get bond. Yes, that was 24 hours before begging for an extension. Yes, Engoron might do it, giving Trump every inch of rope he needs to hang himself, but there's no pressing need to.

In fact, there's a pressing need not to: the election. Engoron has proven he's not an idiot, by far. Anyone following Team Trump's court actions as closely as he has surely expects Trump to run out the 30-day extension also, then file yet more motions -- with the sole intent to drag things out as long as possible and hide in the election.

I'll be honest, before this and the Carroll judgement, I didn't know what happened if you lost a civil case very well. This whole "he has to put the money aside" makes sense now that I know about it. But, well, I have a good excuse. I'm just some math teacher in the middle of nowhere that's never run a business that refused to pay people, never cheated on my taxes, never defrauded any banks or insurers, and let's be honest, I've gone through entire decades of my life without raping anyone. Trump has had lawyers keeping him out of the poorhouse and jail since the 1980's. He and his legal team should have seen this coming, including, yes, the 30-day time line.

Actually you know what? Here's the NYTimes six days ago:

Mr. Trump will appeal the financial penalty but will have to either come up with the money or secure a bond within 30 days.

They had that shit ready to go the second the damage number was announced. And now Team Trump seems to be the only one who, somehow, magically, didn't know that?

If I'm reading these articles correctly, Engoron is, in fact, giving them till 5:00 today to explain how, exactly, what NYState did that is against what specific rules/laws. Engoron heard them yell "objection" and is asking "on what grounds?" likely expecting the answer "it's devastating to our case!"

And based on official entries, such as this one

Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathologica

-- also the judge

I don't see them getting a lot of leeway. If, somehow, this was illegal, by all means stop it. But, again, 30 days seems pretty standard to me, and the judge gave NYState the forms to fill out. I really don't think Team Trump, as inadequate as they've proven to be, to find something in the next three hours.

So once again, I raise the option that Trump doesn't have the money, or at least, can't get it in time. Rather raised the question if Trump knows what "liquid" assets means if they can't flow to his wallet in four weeks. Based purely on what we've seen in public, I don't think Trump has the money to put aside that he claims he does, and I don't think he'll get bond as easily as he said he will. It's a tough call, but my vote is shakily "will sell something off" which is just barely beating out "will take loan from shadowy figure in dark alley".

[Poopymonster]

MMO Champ's second favorite lawyer comments on Civil Fraud.

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/shannonsharpeee/...11443199205763

Fox News pundit Raymond Arroyo (and his poor hair coloring, ooph) claims that Donalds sneakers are a really big deal for Black Americans and kids in the inner cities because they really care about sneakers. He was on social media last night and he saw this, because everyone knows your social media feed is 100% an accurate reflection of reality.

This transcends politics, this is culture.

This position was not meaningfully questioned or interrogated in any capacity beyond teeing him up to make a connection between people who will spend money on shoes and people who will vote. Which I do not think has as much overlap as he thinks it does, but then again he genuinely seems to have managed to have an incredibly racist and also fictional take on this all.

Also, holy shit Tami is still on Fox? I thought she was excomunicado? I don't keep up with these things so it's hard to remember who's in and who's out.

[Breccia]

I don't see them getting a lot of leeway.

UPDATE: They did not get a lot of leeway.

Engoron does not give Trump his 30 days.

You have failed to explain, much less justify, any basis for a stay.

I am confident that the Appellate Division will protect your appellate rights.

So, yes, Engoron asked for a reason for the extension and they gave none. He also ruled that, no, NYState did not do anything unfair by following the exact letter of the law. Shocker.

- - - Updated - - -

Fox News pundit Raymond Arroyo (and his poor hair coloring, ooph) claims that Donalds sneakers are a really big deal for Black Americans and kids in the inner cities because they really care about sneakers.

Interesting theory. Did he explain which of the inner-city teens had the $7,500 for one of the only 1,000 pairs not being shipped until July at the earliest?

- - - Updated - - -

Trump files in court motion to dismiss Mar-a-Lago stolen records case, on the grounds that he made them personal records under PRA while he was still in the WH.

"Is there any record of that?"

If so, he would have presented it a year ago.

"Wouldn't they still be WH records?"

He's claiming absolute immunity.

"That doesn't make sense."

He's still doing it. Remember, he chose not to take "absolute immunity" to SCOTUS, therefore, he's pleading "absolute immunity" in every case he has. Because he stole the records on the way out the door, he claims he has absolute immunity for stealing them.

"Then...why cite the PRA at all?"

He's desperate and stalling. He has no evidence of anything and is objectively guilty. If he really had the right to take those classified documents and keep them in public areas as a normal citizen, he'd have said so long before. He didn't.

[gondrin]

UPDATE: They did not get a lot of leeway.

Engoron does not give Trump his 30 days.



So, yes, Engoron asked for a reason for the extension and they gave none. He also ruled that, no, NYState did not do anything unfair by following the exact letter of the law. Shocker.

- - - Updated - - -



Interesting theory. Did he explain which of the inner-city teens had the $7,500 for one of the only 1,000 pairs not being shipped until July at the earliest?

- - - Updated - - -

Trump files in court motion to dismiss Mar-a-Lago stolen records case, on the grounds that he made them personal records under PRA while he was still in the WH.

"Is there any record of that?"

If so, he would have presented it a year ago.

"Wouldn't they still be WH records?"

He's claiming absolute immunity.

"That doesn't make sense."

He's still doing it. Remember, he chose not to take "absolute immunity" to SCOTUS, therefore, he's pleading "absolute immunity" in every case he has. Because he stole the records on the way out the door, he claims he has absolute immunity for stealing them.

"Then...why cite the PRA at all?"

He's desperate and stalling. He has no evidence of anything and is objectively guilty. If he really had the right to take those classified documents and keep them in public areas as a normal citizen, he'd have said so long before. He didn't.

Honestly, someone should make him say in court where it says in the PRA that presidents are allowed to keep documents. I would love to see the man try and find it. The only thing the PRA does is allowed presidents to view personal documents at the archives.

EDIT: I want to add it also does this:

"Prevents an individual who has been convicted of a crime related to the review, retention, removal, or destruction of records from being given access to any original records."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Records_Act

[Breccia]

EDIT: I want to add it also does this:

"Prevents an individual who has been convicted of a crime related to the review, retention, removal, or destruction of records from being given access to any original records."

Hmm, I wonder if that'll come up...somehow.

The article I cited has new information which further point to how desperate Trump is.

"Trump’s alleged decision to designate records as personal under the PRA and cause them to be removed from the White House—which underlies Counts 1 through 32 of the Superseding Indictment—was an official act by the incumbent president," Trump's attorneys wrote in court papers filed in federal court in West Palm Beach, Florida.

“Trump is entitled to immunity for this official act and that must include immunity from criminal prosecution,” they added.

Counts 1 through 32 are for the 32 things he's directly charged with stealing, starting funnily enough page 32. Each charge is

"having unauthorized possession of, access to, and control over documents relating to the national
defense, did willfully retain the documents and fail to deliver them to the officer and employee of
the United States entitled to receive them"

and the charges are dated Jan 20, 2021 and on. Trump was not in the WH then. Again, Trump is trying to bypass this by claiming absolute immunity, which in turn, means he is admitting he stole them but did so while he couldn't be charged for it. Problem is, even if stealing is forgiven, having them afterwards is the crime he's charged with.

Trump publicly filed three other motions on Thursday night arguing the charges against him should be dismissed due to the vagueness of a statute Trump was charged with as it relates to presidents, the alleged unconstitutionality of special counsel appointments, and the Presidential Records Act.

"In what way is the Presidental Records Act vague when it comes to the President?"

It isn't.

"In what way are Special Counsel assignments unConstitutional?"

They aren't. Bear in mind, he threatened to Clinton's face to appoint one to indict her, in public, in the debates. His fans erupted in thunderous applause.

"Did he say the PRA was unConstitutional?"

NBC seems to be suggesting that, yes.

"But...it isn't."

No, it isn't.

"How does any of this apply to the FBI kicking down his door and finding all those documents he stole?"

It doesn't.

"How does any of this apply to him conspiring with employees to hide the documents he stole?"

It doesn't, and obstruction is pretty hard to defend against. There is no chance at all he could claim he has absolute immunity for acts that he conspired with never-WH-employees to hide the items he stole. He said he didn't have them, he hid them...kind of...and the FBI found them anyhow. Trying to flood his own basement and erasing his own security footage isn't something he can defend and he knows it.

"Why did he do all of this in the first place?"

Even in the death throes of his COVID-plagued fair and legal election loss, Trump was not just under the impression that consequences never apply to him, but also, he was vengeful and bitter at the world in general. I think he just took the out of spite, thinking nobody would care.

The law cares, motherfucker.

[Cthulhu 2020]

https://twitter.com/shannonsharpeee/...11443199205763

Fox News pundit Raymond Arroyo (and his poor hair coloring, ooph) claims that Donalds sneakers are a really big deal for Black Americans and kids in the inner cities because they really care about sneakers. He was on social media last night and he saw this, because everyone knows your social media feed is 100% an accurate reflection of reality.

This transcends politics, this is culture.

This position was not meaningfully questioned or interrogated in any capacity beyond teeing him up to make a connection between people who will spend money on shoes and people who will vote. Which I do not think has as much overlap as he thinks it does, but then again he genuinely seems to have managed to have an incredibly racist and also fictional take on this all.

Also, holy shit Tami is still on Fox? I thought she was excomunicado? I don't keep up with these things so it's hard to remember who's in and who's out.

Conservatives are normally insanely tone deaf when it comes to non white straight cis het americans, so hearing "Yeah the black people will love us because we made cool $400 sneakers!" is the hardest cope in this situation.

[Twdft]

Conservatives are normally insanely tone deaf when it comes to non white straight cis het americans, so hearing "Yeah the black people will love us because we made cool $400 sneakers!" is the hardest cope in this situation.

The dude was also racist as fuck I mean "this is connecting with Black America, because they love sneakers, it's a big deal certainly in the inner city" what?

[Flarelaine]

I wonder if they think blacks love sneakers because they heard My Adidas once.

[Breccia]

Trump's latest master plan to escape the consequences of his many criminal actions? Change the letterhead.

NY AG files motion with Engoron to stop Trump from "moving" Trump Org to Florida, on the sound legal grounds of "Trump Org does all its business in Trump Tower, a physical address in NYC and not in Florida".

On Wednesday, Trump's attorneys had asked Engoron to delay enforcing the multi-million dollar judgment against him for a month, accusing James of an "unseemly rush" by asking the judge to sign off on a proposal judgment just days after the ruling. Trump has 30 days from bla bla bla.

His legal team also told the court that several of the addresses for Trump in James' proposed judgment were incorrect and included "proper address" for those entities, all of which were in Florida. The addresses listed included the Mar-a-Lago estate, the Trump National Golf Club in Jupiter and the Trump National Doral Miami.

In a Thursday letter, James urged Judge Arthur Engoron to "reject Defendants' attempt to change the business address of the six entity Defendants to Florida as the record establishes those entities are located in Trump Tower at 725 5th Avenue in New York, the office building in which the executives who carry out the business activities of those entities work."

Doing all your business in NY and claiming you were doing it in Florida is, well, fraud. Some of you already know how tricky it is to work in one state and live in another -- income taxes in particular. Running a business in one state, and claiming it's in another, that's asking to be arrested.

- - - Updated - - -

So, apparently Trump tried to give a rally in Nashville, the Christian Media Convention, and single-handedly removed "Biden is demented" from the playing field.

In one hour, he:
1) Said he made Israel the capital of Israel.
2) Said Mueller should have dropped the investigation because Hunter Biden's laptop proved Trump was innocent
3) Attempted to say "evangelicals" to a room full of evangelicals, and slurred it into mush

"But Breccia! Trump was tiiiiiiired. Surely it's okay to flub a few words, he's tiiiiiiired, he's sleeeeepy!"

Trump is trying to get back in the WH, a job far more demanding than holding a few rallies. If he can't handle a rally to the absolute core of his base, he can't run the country.

[Gorsameth]

Trump's latest master plan to escape the consequences of his many criminal actions? Change the letterhead.

NY AG files motion with Engoron to stop Trump from "moving" Trump Org to Florida, on the sound legal grounds of "Trump Org does all its business in Trump Tower, a physical address in NYC and not in Florida".



Doing all your business in NY and claiming you were doing it in Florida is, well, fraud. Some of you already know how tricky it is to work in one state and live in another -- income taxes in particular. Running a business in one state, and claiming it's in another, that's asking to be arrested.

- - - Updated - - -

So, apparently Trump tried to give a rally in Nashville, the Christian Media Convention, and single-handedly removed "Biden is demented" from the playing field.

In one hour, he:
1) Said he made Israel the capital of Israel.
2) Said Mueller should have dropped the investigation because Hunter Biden's laptop proved Trump was innocent
3) Attempted to say "evangelicals" to a room full of evangelicals, and slurred it into mush

"But Breccia! Trump was tiiiiiiired. Surely it's okay to flub a few words, he's tiiiiiiired, he's sleeeeepy!"

Trump is trying to get back in the WH, a job far more demanding than holding a few rallies. If he can't handle a rally to the absolute core of his base, he can't run the country.

being President is only demanding if you actually do the job. Trump never did.

[Redwyrm]

being President is only demanding if you actually do the job. Trump never did.

I just got an image from Return of the Jedi of Jabba in his palace lounging and eating frogs all day. Occasionally a live band or dancer attempts to distract Jabba. Whoever Trump picks as his running mate will most likely fill the role of Salacious Crumb.

[Breccia]

So, apparently Trump tried to give a rally in Nashville

UPDATE: He was two hours late, and the staff removed all the empty chairs so it looked like it was full.

The room is far from full. About 20 mins ago, staff cleared out about 300 chairs from the far back corner. Photo on the left was taken just after 7pm, photo on the right was taken just now.

Okay so the images are huge, I'm not pasting them here, the above link is on Twitter and shows them side by side.

This is not exactly a huge room. This is Trump's core audience, his key demo. And he couldn't fill it past halfway.

[Gelannerai]

The dude was also racist as fuck I mean "this is connecting with Black America, because they love sneakers, it's a big deal certainly in the inner city" what?

The writers over at The Onion are gonna start getting soft. All they have to do these days is repeat GOP talking points verbatim. We may be witnessing the death of comedy in real time.

[Breccia]

The writers over at The Onion are gonna start getting soft. All they have to do these days is repeat GOP talking points verbatim. We may be witnessing the death of comedy in real time.

Let's put this into sharp focus: Christians Explain How Jesus Would Handle The Border Crisis

It's a slideshow, but, the standout is “What the hell does Jesus know about Christianity?”

Now go back and read the last 8 years of threads here.

[zealo]

The writers over at The Onion are gonna start getting soft. All they have to do these days is repeat GOP talking points verbatim. We may be witnessing the death of comedy in real time.

Satirists have been on some hard times for years now.

It’s incredibly difficult to make funny jokes intended to exaggerate behaviour when what you’d write as satire is all happening for real anyway.

The Onion should just embrace it and become a serious news publication at this point, tbh.

[Breccia]

(minutes later)

Trump: ‘Crazy’ for any Christian to vote for Democrat

“How any Christian can vote for a Democrat, Christian or person of faith, person of faith — how you can vote for a Democrat is crazy. It’s crazy,” Trump said at the National Religious Broadcasters (NRB) International Christian Media Convention in Nashville.

Trump made the remark while railing against his multiple indictments, characterizing himself as the victim of “the radical left” that he claimed is “coming after all of us” due to “allegiance to our country” and “our creator.”

Trump is right...in the sense that "Christian" means "against abortion". Jesus never once in the Bible said a single word on the subject.

Same with homosexuality, by the way. That was some Old Testament shit, and of course, you're not allowed to pick and choose which parts of the Bible you want to follow. If you're against gays, you better not be eating bacon. Or, you know, stealing or committing adultery. I hear those are bad, too.

Which goes directly to what we've been saying. What Trump is talking about has nothing to do with the teachings of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If you call yourself a Christian and vote down food stamps or health care, you're a liar, and you're going to Hell.

[Odinfrost]

(minutes later)

Trump: ‘Crazy’ for any Christian to vote for Democrat



Trump is right...in the sense that "Christian" means "against abortion". Jesus never once in the Bible said a single word on the subject.

Same with homosexuality, by the way. That was some Old Testament shit, and of course, you're not allowed to pick and choose which parts of the Bible you want to follow. If you're against gays, you better not be eating bacon. Or, you know, stealing or committing adultery. I hear those are bad, too.

Which goes directly to what we've been saying. What Trump is talking about has nothing to do with the teachings of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If you call yourself a Christian and vote down food stamps or health care, you're a liar, and you're going to Hell.

You can be Christian and vote against those.
They never stated they were good Christians.

[Breccia]

You can be Christian and vote against those.
They never stated they were good Christians.

Disagree, but to avoid issues with forum rules, "they're a college student, they're just a bad college student because they never enrolled or took classes" isn't an argument I side with.

But, yes, they're liars or they're hypocrites. There is no reasonable option.

[Endus]

Satirists have been on some hard times for years now.

It’s incredibly difficult to make funny jokes intended to exaggerate behaviour when what you’d write as satire is all happening for real anyway.

The Onion should just embrace it and become a serious news publication at this point, tbh.

Develop a whole new genre; metasatire. The Onion reports the news bald-facedly but marks it as "satire", leading readers to question whether it's a hyperbolic piece of humor or real. The humor being that you can't tell without an external, unrelated source, because reality's gotten so off-kilter you can't tell reality from satire any more.

- - - Updated - - -

Disagree, but to avoid issues with forum rules, "they're a college student, they're just a bad college student because they never enrolled or took classes" isn't an argument I side with.

But, yes, they're liars or they're hypocrites. There is no reasonable option.

It's best to take a historical view of things.

Other things college students have done in the name of their universities;
Slaughtered men and women for ideological differences (the Inquisition, among others)
Launched wars against other universities just because their professors have a slightly different take on things.
Shunned schoolmates, excluding them from society permanently, over minor quibbles.
Demanded 10% of your income for life because you're never paying off those loans.
Insisted their college is the only real source of information and targeted students and professors of any other institution for abuse and murder.
Covered up sex abuse scandals and protected the abusers, ensuring they can find new victims.
Just straight up denied women any access to the institution.
Engaged in race realism and defended the idea that only whites are the "chosen people".

I could keep going. Anyone pushing the idea that to be a "college student" makes you a "good person" doesn't understand the history of college.

And lest this come off as "bashy", I'm not saying college students are all bad. I'm saying you're judged by your character and conduct, not your affiliation.