1. #90241
    Prosecutors say Trump violated his gag order 10 times. The judge is finally set to weigh in.

    The prosecutors say Trump has repeatedly violated a gag order that prohibits him from attacking witnesses, jurors and others involved in the case. Justice Juan Merchan has scheduled a Tuesday morning hearing, outside the presence of the jury, to consider the prosecutors’ arguments.

    If Merchan agrees that Trump has defied the gag order, he’ll then face the thorny question of what to do about it. His options range from a sternly worded warning to a modest fine to a short stint in jail.

    Several former prosecutors said they expect Merchan to be lenient. But they also noted that the situation is fluid, unpredictable, and — it goes without saying — unprecedented.

    “Judge Merchan is going to do everything possible to give him as much leeway as possible to cure the situation and be a better defendant,” said Diana Florence, a former Manhattan prosecutor.

    But Trump has shown little willingness to curb his public rhetoric, prosecutors say. On April 15, the first day of the trial, prosecutors cited three alleged violations of the gag order, including an April 13 post on Truth Social in which Trump called Michael Cohen, a star witness for the prosecution, a “disgraced attorney and felon.”


    A bit of back and forth here.. but I think Merchan let the rope play out long enough. It's time to hang Trump with some jail time. (Merchan has a temper. He may do it.)

  2. #90242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    A bit of back and forth here.. but I think Merchan let the rope play out long enough. It's time to hang Trump with some jail time. (Merchan has a temper. He may do it.)
    I think fines will come first. Jail time will be a last resort.
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  3. #90243
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    His options range from a sternly worded warning
    Come on now, if it's literally anything other than this I think the health care system might buckle because so many people will need medical attention for the level of shock simultaneously experienced.

  4. #90244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Come on now, if it's literally anything other than this I think the health care system might buckle because so many people will need medical attention for the level of shock simultaneously experienced.
    Right? The finger will just wag a bit more and no major consequences will come for Dump.

  5. #90245
    https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...nnounced-raid/

    When the FBI searched Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago property on Aug. 8, 2022, what followed were incessant criticisms of an “unannounced raid” and “siege,” a search of the former president’s Florida home his allies also called “unprecedented” and “unconstitutional.” Trump’s defense, however, is now arguing as part of a bid to compel discovery in the Espionage Act case that the FBI’s search didn’t go far enough.

    In a supplemental filing to their duel with special counsel Jack Smith, the defense for co-defendant Walt Nauta reiterated their demand, on behalf of Trump and Carlos De Oliveira as well, for “records concerning the FBI’s apparent failure to search several areas of President Trump’s residence during their execution of a search warrant on Mar-a-Lago.”

    “That such information would be discoverable is beyond dispute,” the defense asserted, before explaining their theory is that Trump and his co-defendants could hardly be persuasively accused of concealing boxes of classified documents from Trump Attorney 1, namely Evan Corcoran, and a grand jury when there’s “unequivocally material” evidence that may undermine the prosecution’s case.

    Calling Smith’s allegations a “conspiracy theory,” the defense first assigned blame to Corcoran and then said the FBI failed to search a “‘hidden room’ behind a bureau in President Trump’s bedroom” and a locked closet.
    Damn, I guess there might be more classified documents in secret rooms the FBI apparently didn't search? It would be a shame if they rolled back to maralago and tore the place apart looking for them in response to this filing.

    This is a really stupid argument.

  6. #90246
    It sounds like Merchan's losing patience with Trump's lawyer;

    The ensuing back-and-forth between Blanche and Merchan continued to a roiling boil until Blanche suddenly claimed that the violations at hand—which involve Trump “reposting an article from a news site” or a “news program”—don’t actually violate the order. Still, Blanche had no precedent or case law to support such a claim.

    “I don’t have any case law,” Blanche said, instead calling it “common sense” and doubling down that Trump had been “very careful to comply” with the order.

    That was, apparently, the straw that broke the camel’s back, after which Merchan dropped that the attorney had gone too far.

    Mr. Blanche, you are losing all credibility with the court,” Merchan said, according to LawFare’s Anna Bower.

    “You say the posts are ambiguous, you say he didn’t know, but you’re not offering me anything to support your argument. You’re not giving me anything to hang my hat on,” Merchan continued.

  7. #90247
    I mean, the fact that his legal team has any credibility with the court at all at this point, even Juan's court, is kinda a joke to begin with. What have his attorney's ever done in any of these cases to warrant a belief they are acting in good faith or for a court to give them the benefit of the doubt?

  8. #90248
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    It sounds like Merchan's losing patience with Trump's lawyer;

    The ensuing back-and-forth between Blanche and Merchan continued to a roiling boil until Blanche suddenly claimed that the violations at hand—which involve Trump “reposting an article from a news site” or a “news program”—don’t actually violate the order. Still, Blanche had no precedent or case law to support such a claim.

    “I don’t have any case law,” Blanche said, instead calling it “common sense” and doubling down that Trump had been “very careful to comply” with the order.

    That was, apparently, the straw that broke the camel’s back, after which Merchan dropped that the attorney had gone too far.

    Mr. Blanche, you are losing all credibility with the court,” Merchan said, according to LawFare’s Anna Bower.

    “You say the posts are ambiguous, you say he didn’t know, but you’re not offering me anything to support your argument. You’re not giving me anything to hang my hat on,” Merchan continued.
    As an aside… is this all happening in front of the jury?

    That can’t look good for team trump.
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    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  9. #90249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    “I don’t have any case law,”
    A Trump lawyer, you say?

    Checking the rolling trackers, I don't see a ruling on the gag order yet, but I do see prosecution seem to want Cohen, Hope Hicks, and Steve Bannon as witnesses. This is a real who's who of "people Trump intentionally hired and worked with turning against him for being a horrible person". I'm struggling to name an ally Trump hasn't lost yet. Nunes, maybe.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    As an aside… is this all happening in front of the jury?
    Near as I can tell, yes. There's a note about the jury being tucked away for a sidebar, but that was later.

    Worth noting: Blanche apparently offered that Trump would take down any post the judge ruled was against the gag order. Meaning, of course, Trump could post whatever he wanted, wait until the next day in court, wait until a special hearing about that post, wait until the ruling, then take it down. Yeah, no. That's not a gag order. That's the kind of thread moderation people complain about.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Mar-a-Lago case seems to be stronger than we knew.

    The witness, identified only at Person 16 in the documents, told Trump he should cooperate with federal investigators looking for classified documents, saying doing so could prevent him from being indicted.

    “Whatever you have, give everything back. Let them come here and get everything,” the witness said they told Trump. “Don’t give them a noble reason to indict you, because they will.”

    But Trump seemed unphased, according to the witness, who said Trump gave a “weird ‘you’re the man’ type of response” to the warnings.

    The witness refused to have their conversation with the FBI recorded out of fear of reprisal. The summary of the interview describes them as someone with a security clearance and daily access to the Oval Office.

    The interview counters a defense from Trump that there was a standard order to declassify anything Trump had, with the witness saying they heard that for the first time only after Trump was facing charges.

    The witness said they urged Trump multiple times to return the records being sought then by the National Archives, telling Trump something to the effect of it “was not worth all that aggravation.”

    The witness also said they had urged Trump’s children to give him the same warning, noting that Trump “sometimes needed to be messaged the same thing from multiple people close to him.”

    “There are issues with the boxes. They belong to the government, talk to your dad and about giving them back” the witness said he had told Trump’s children.

    The witness also addressed conversations with Trump’s valet, Walt Nauta, who has since been charged with aiding Trump in moving boxes as well as for lying to investigators.

    The witness said Nauta was told by those close to Trump that the documents case was politically motivated and “much ado about nothing” and that even if he faced charges for lying to the bureau, Trump would pardon him in 2024.

    The filings offer up other details about the investigation, including that it was code-named Plasmic Echo.

    The witness also stated that Trump only hired attorney James Trusty after seeing him on TV.

    The court documents were released by prosecutors to answer claims from Trump that he is facing a political prosecution and thus needs access to communications from special counsel Jack Smith’s team.

    The filing says prosecutors must “clear the air on those issues … because the defendants’ misstatements, if unanswered, leave a highly misleading impression.”

    “Their apparent aim is to cast a cloud of suspicion over responsible actions by government officials diligently doing their jobs. The defendants’ insinuations have scant factual or legal relevance to their discovery requests, but they should not stand uncorrected,” prosecutors wrote.

    “Put simply, the Government here confronted an extraordinary situation: a former President engaging in calculated and persistent obstruction of the collection of Presidential records, which, as a matter of law, belong to the United States.”
    Part of the continuing trend. Prosecution having a mountain of evidence that Trump broke the law, Team Trump's only response is "nuh uh".

  10. #90250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    The Mar-a-Lago case seems to be stronger than we knew.

    Part of the continuing trend. Prosecution having a mountain of evidence that Trump broke the law, Team Trump's only response is "nuh uh".
    My primary concern is that the judge currently on the case, the one that's already gone to bat for him repeatedly and he put in that position, will find some way to shut the whole thing down, or stall and stall and stall (as we've been seeing) until it's too late.

  11. #90251
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    My primary concern is that the judge currently on the case, the one that's already gone to bat for him repeatedly and he put in that position, will find some way to shut the whole thing down, or stall and stall and stall (as we've been seeing) until it's too late.
    I agree this is a concern. This evidence was filed publicly on purpose. I think prosecution sees the same risk and is intentionally taking steps to make sure the public, including other judges, sees the case for what it is -- objective and airtight.

    Stalling remains something that can be done indefinitely, but everything else can be appealed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think it’s a disgrace. It’s totally unconstitutional. I don’t believe it’s, not to this extent, ever happened before. I’m not allowed to talk but people are allowed to say whatever they want about me. Very unfair
    Trump seems again to be pushing that the gag order is against the law -- something you'd think his lawyers would have motioned in court. "This breaks the Constitution" seems pretty obvious, if true. The rest is the usual "this is the first time it's ever happened" which, considering we know what a gag order is, is just objectively false.

    Hmm. @BlackDruid96 perhaps you missed my last mention, but it's high time we got people like yourself, honest genuine posters who engage in the spirit of free and fair debate, involved, I know you're an active poster, I know you regard things Trump says positively, and this is a fast-moving thread. I'd like to hear what you, an honest and genuine poster, have to say in regards to "the gag order is unConstitutional". Surely you have an opinion? Possibly even one backed by evidence? One you could find in, say, 24 hours?

  12. #90252
    So, how much does Trump love America? So much so that he is blaming Biden for the dollar being strong compared to other currencies. Who would have thought that a strong dollar was a bad thing and not a sign that the US has a lot of purchasing power in the world? According to Trump, it is a bad thing.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...d0989192&ei=44

    Trump Blames Biden For Strong Dollar—As US Currency Reaches New High Against Japanese Yen

    Former President Trump called the U.S. dollar’s new 34-year high against the yen a “disaster” on Tuesday, claiming it would harm U.S. manufacturers and force them to relocate plants overseas—echoing protectionist sentiments after reportedly exploring ideas about devaluing the dollar if he returns to the White House

    In a post on Truth Social on Tuesday morning, Trump said the dollar’s new peak would be a “disaster for our manufacturers and others,” claiming it would make them “unable to compete and will be forced to either lose lots of business, or build plants, or whatever, in the ‘smart’ Countries.”

    The dollar hit a 34-year high against the yen on Monday, rising to 154.85 yen versus one dollar—and is at 154.86 on Tuesday.
    The former president blamed the White House for the strong dollar, claiming President Biden weakened his trade policies against China and Japan—who he said will now “pick apart the U.S.”

    However, experts believe the dollar’s strength is likely related to the success of the U.S. economy compared to other nations, as well as rising inflation and the Federal Reserve’s call to delay interest rate cuts, Bloomberg reported.

    Trump is exploring options to devalue the dollar if he returns to office in November in order to address the U.S. trade deficit with countries like China and Japan, Politico reported—a move widely criticized by experts who say this could also contribute to inflation and raise prices for American consumers.

    The former president claimed he enforced “limits” on China and Japan with trade policy. “When I was President, I spent a good deal of time telling Japan and China, in particular, you can’t do that,” Trump said on Monday. In 2017, Trump accused Japan of manipulating the value of the yen to hurt the U.S. economy. “They play the money market, they play the devaluation market and we sit there like a bunch of dummies,” Trump said. Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga, who is now Japan’s prime minister, called Trump’s accusation “totally inaccurate.” During his presidency, Trump also engaged in a prolonged trade war with China by enacting a 25% tariff on Chinese imports of steel, aluminum, and manufactured goods like televisions and solar panels. China responded by enacting their own 25% tariff on American goods. The trade war was eventually settled in 2020 after both sides signed a bilateral agreement, but not before it cost U.S. companies an estimated $1.7 trillion in stock prices, one study found.

    Trump is meeting with former Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso Tuesday after his criminal trial ends for the day at 2 p.m., Reuters reported. Aso, who currently serves as the vice president of Japan’s Liberal Democratic Party, was the country’s deputy prime minister from 2012 through 2021. Japanese Foreign Minister Yoko Kamikawa said Aso’s visit was “personal activity” and not related to his government role. This is the second time Trump has hosted a world leader at Trump Tower since his hush money trial began. He hosted Polish President Andrzej Duda at the Fifth Avenue skyscraper last Wednesday. He also hosted British Foreign Secretary and former Prime Minister David Cameron at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach, Florida shortly before the trial began.

  13. #90253
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    So, how much does Trump love America? So much so that he is blaming Biden for the dollar being strong compared to other currencies. Who would have thought that a strong dollar was a bad thing and not a sign that the US has a lot of purchasing power in the world? According to Trump, it is a bad thing.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...d0989192&ei=44
    Oh look, another time where he's sorta completely unintentionally correct about something for all the wrong reasons.

    A strong dollar is bad for trade, generally, but the causes for the current strength of the dollar is more a reflection of the US monetary policy moves separate from appropriations and political budgets.

    He doesn't know that he's unintentionally correct. He has no idea why he's unintentionally correct. And he's wrong on just about everything else beyond that one point.

  14. #90254
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    So, how much does Trump love America?
    Trump says strong U.S. dollar is 'great'

    Trump said he supported a strong dollar, as the U.S. dollar index extended its gains one day after Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell rejected the idea of using negative interest rates despite Trump's vocal support.

    "It's a great time to have a strong dollar. Everybody wants to be in the dollar because we kept it strong." he said in an interview on Fox Business Network. *ding*

    Trump told the television network that he "could live both ways" regarding the dollar's strength, but said he supported it for now.
    Oh whoops, you know what I did? I accidentally quoted an article from May 2020, and accidentally snipped all the parts where Trump says he did it on purpose. Oh, dear.

    Trump and the idea of a strong dollar have come at odds before. In 2019 he was against it.

    And he was wrong in his attack, making objective falsehoods when describing the downsides of a weak dollar.

    In 2018, Trump said the dollar would get stronger and stronger, and this was a good thing.

    “The dollar is going to get stronger and stronger, and ultimately I want to see a strong dollar,” Trump said in an exclusive interview from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. “Our country is becoming so economically strong again and strong in other ways, too.”[/quote]

    Yep this was back in 2018 where Trump hadn't really done anything yet. He was just taking credit for anything with the word "strong" in it.

    "Wait, that's unfair. You can't prove he did that."

    Yes I can. In 2017 he said

    “I think our dollar is getting too strong, and partially that’s my fault because people have confidence in me," he told the Wall Street Journal. "But that’s hurting — that will hurt ultimately.”

    “Look, there’s some very good things about a strong dollar, but usually speaking the best thing about it is that it sounds good.”

    Following Trump's remarks, the dollar index hit its lowest level of the month
    April, 2017. He'd been in office three months and was taking credit for the strong dollar.

    So, yes, Trump has been back and forth on the issue so many times, the issue found out about it and divorced him. It's good when he wants it to be, it's bad when he wants it to be. He's not in office, the dollar is strong, therefore, it's bad.

    "Well is he right or not?"

    Irrelevant. As you can see, he swapped opinion on the subject routinely -- at least once per year. He would have been just as right/wrong if he'd flipped a coin. I am not interested in a leader, especially one whose sole qualification is claiming to be a good businessman, guessing True/False questions on the world's most expensive quiz.

  15. #90255
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Today, on "The Jokes Write Themselves" Theater, Trumps Pecker continues to cause him problems, testifying under oath that the catch and kill schemes only started after he was explicitly asked by the Trump campaign for his help.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  16. #90256
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Today, on "The Jokes Write Themselves" Theater, Trumps Pecker continues to cause him problems, testifying under oath that the catch and kill schemes only started after he was explicitly asked by the Trump campaign for his help.
    If this were a normal trial, Trump's lawyers would be desperately trying to swing some kind of a plea deal at this point (and indeed would have been months before it got to trial). Because the very first witness has provided enough evidence to prove at least some of the charges all on his own. And we know that there are other witnesses that will corroborate this, and provide tangible evidence as well.

    Short of a MAGA crazy being on the jury, this should be a slam dunk after the first witness on the first day. But I've personal experience of jurors in the UK being absolute fucking morons, and ignoring evidence to suit their own agenda. So this isn't a done deal yet.

    More popcorn on order though. I'm bulk buying.
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  17. #90257
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    If this were a normal trial, Trump's lawyers would be desperately trying to swing some kind of a plea deal at this point (and indeed would have been months before it got to trial). Because the very first witness has provided enough evidence to prove at least some of the charges all on his own. And we know that there are other witnesses that will corroborate this, and provide tangible evidence as well.

    Short of a MAGA crazy being on the jury, this should be a slam dunk after the first witness on the first day. But I've personal experience of jurors in the UK being absolute fucking morons, and ignoring evidence to suit their own agenda. So this isn't a done deal yet.

    More popcorn on order though. I'm bulk buying.
    I don't exactly know what a plea deal would look like. What does the prosecution want from Trump? There's no "bigger fish" to flip on. He's the crime boss, the buck stops with him. They don't care about his underlings; they're all just doing what he wants. There's no greater conspiracy to uncover or buried bodies or some information he's really withholding from them. They're trying to nail him down on this.

    At any rate, as you note, hopefully they were able to purge any MAGA crazies from the jury pool. If reports are to be believed Trump's lawyers are making a real hack job of this and coming off as extremely clueless and incompetent, which I'm sure doesn't look good in front of a truly "neutral" jury.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  18. #90258
    wasn't the hearing about Trumps gag order yesterday? Did anything come out of that?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I don't exactly know what a plea deal would look like. What does the prosecution want from Trump? There's no "bigger fish" to flip on. He's the crime boss, the buck stops with him. They don't care about his underlings; they're all just doing what he wants. There's no greater conspiracy to uncover or buried bodies or some information he's really withholding from them. They're trying to nail him down on this.

    At any rate, as you note, hopefully they were able to purge any MAGA crazies from the jury pool. If reports are to be believed Trump's lawyers are making a real hack job of this and coming off as extremely clueless and incompetent, which I'm sure doesn't look good in front of a truly "neutral" jury.
    I imagine a plea deal would be of the "you admit guilt, don't fight it and get a slightly reduced sentence to save us the trouble, and yourself the cost, of months in court" variety.

    Which Trump won't accept because his ego can't allow him to admit guilt.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  19. #90259
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    wasn't the hearing about Trumps gag order yesterday? Did anything come out of that? .
    Not yet.
    Merchan was too aggravated. And apparently...like many judges, won't rule while feeling such emotion. (My take)

  20. #90260
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Not yet.
    Merchan was too aggravated. And apparently...like many judges, won't rule while feeling such emotion. (My take)
    good on them for not letting emotion influence their judgement, but also very bad news for Trump.

    Thanks.
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