Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Seems he's in the fast lane headed for unprotected bankruptcy.

I'm not sure this line is doing it justice.

By now, everyone here knows there are different forms, "chapters", of bankruptcy. So does Giuliani, who willingly made a choice in the matter by filing for Chapter 11 and not Chapter 7.

In December, Giuliani hastily filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy after a jury ordered him to pay two Georgia election workers $148 million for defaming them by spreading a baseless conspiracy on behalf of former President Trump in 2020 that they were involved in mass election fraud. He has vowed to appeal.

Bankruptcy automatically froze the poll workers’ efforts to collect the massive sum. And by filing for Chapter 11 — as opposed to Chapter 7, a more common type of individual bankruptcy that would lead to liquidation — Giuliani has remained in control of his assets, for now.

“Mr. Giuliani went into Chapter 11 because he wanted to retain control. This is the key to Mr. Giuliani’s bankruptcy,” said Daniel Gielchinsky, a partner at DGIM Law who specializes in bankruptcy law.

Giuliani is about to lose that control he sought to retain. Chapter 7 is a liquidation, selling most of your stuff to pay the people you owe money. Chapter 11 is a reorganization, and the appointed supervisor doesn't so much sell off all your stuff as monitor them, allowing business to continue as long as debts are being repaid. Chapter 11 is not typically used by individuals, because most individuals are too poor to be called businesses.

So yes, Giuliani intentionally took this Chapter 11 route to keep his stuff from being sold off. If you file Chapter 11, but don't reorganize and don't repay, then you're not really bankrupt, you're just refusing to pay back what you owe. The court can step in and say "we gave you every chance and you blew it" throw Giuliani out of Chapter 11 into Chapter 7, or worse, and sell his stuff without his control.

Giuliani has already put himself into this position by repeatedly blowing deadlines and not complying with court orders. While he is apparently both rich enough and white enough to get chance after chance none of us ever would, those will eventually run out if Giuliani continues to demonstrate he believes the law has no meaning to him. Bankruptcy is not a magical "time out" in which you don't have to pay anything or suffer consequences. It's when you admit you screwed up so badly you can't pay what you owe and ask the courts for help.

I should also add that some Chapters of bankruptcy allow specific exceptions. For example, a bankrupt individual could be allowed to keep his car so they can keep driving to work. If you're thrown out of bankruptcy, you lose those, and can legally be thrown out of your own house onto the street with nothing.

Giuliani owes far more than he has. He should be taking this seriously.

[Poopymonster]

I'm not sure this line is doing it justice.

By now, everyone here knows there are different forms, "chapters", of bankruptcy. So does Giuliani, who willingly made a choice in the matter by filing for Chapter 11 and not Chapter 7.



Giuliani is about to lose that control he sought to retain. Chapter 7 is a liquidation, selling most of your stuff to pay the people you owe money. Chapter 11 is a reorganization, and the appointed supervisor doesn't so much sell off all your stuff as monitor them, allowing business to continue as long as debts are being repaid. Chapter 11 is not typically used by individuals, because most individuals are too poor to be called businesses.

So yes, Giuliani intentionally took this Chapter 11 route to keep his stuff from being sold off. If you file Chapter 11, but don't reorganize and don't repay, then you're not really bankrupt, you're just refusing to pay back what you owe. The court can step in and say "we gave you every chance and you blew it" throw Giuliani out of Chapter 11 into Chapter 7, or worse, and sell his stuff without his control.

Giuliani has already put himself into this position by repeatedly blowing deadlines and not complying with court orders. While he is apparently both rich enough and white enough to get chance after chance none of us ever would, those will eventually run out if Giuliani continues to demonstrate he believes the law has no meaning to him. Bankruptcy is not a magical "time out" in which you don't have to pay anything or suffer consequences. It's when you admit you screwed up so badly you can't pay what you owe and ask the courts for help.

I should also add that some Chapters of bankruptcy allow specific exceptions. For example, a bankrupt individual could be allowed to keep his car so they can keep driving to work. If you're thrown out of bankruptcy, you lose those, and can legally be thrown out of your own house onto the street with nothing.

Giuliani owes far more than he has. He should be taking this seriously.

Part of me thinks there is something amiss in with Rudypoo.
Welcome to the speculation station!
Rudy's health is in the shitter. Not "I'm old, doing drugs, done a bunch more, and now pay the consequences" but "I have 2 years max to live." type shitter.
Stall, drag it out and live the high life.
I'll play the fiddle today because I'll be dead by the time my personal Rome gets put to the torch.
Blown deadlines? He's got a more much serious deadline ahead of him.
OR
He's fried his brains and still thinks as America's Mayor, a former lawyer, and Rudy Giuliani, that it CAN'T happen to him. He's too white for the system.
He'll say "I can't go to prison, I didn't commit any crimes, prison is for ni-" and the mic gets cut.

[Ripster42]

Part of me thinks there is something amiss in with Rudypoo.
Welcome to the speculation station!

He's just hoping for a trump win in '24 so he can get a pardon for all the criminal stuff and use his temporary wealth to forestall jail by paying (or not) lawyers to tie up the courts until then. He'll live with with a rich relative or friend til he dies after they liquidate his stuff after that.

[Benggaul]

He's just hoping for a trump win in '24 so he can get a pardon for all the criminal stuff and use his temporary wealth to forestall jail by paying (or not) lawyers to tie up the courts until then. He'll live with with a rich relative or friend til he dies after they liquidate his stuff after that.

Pretty sure we saw his stuff being liquidated on camera a few years back. As I recall it was running down the side of his head.

[Edge-]

New York's highest court on Tuesday declined to take up a challenge to the limited gag order imposed on former President Donald Trump by the judge who oversaw his criminal hush money trial.

The New York Court of Appeals rejected Trump's appeal "upon the ground that no substantial constitutional question is directly involved."

Judge Juan Merchan prohibited Trump from discussing witnesses, jurors and others associated with his criminal trial, which ended in a conviction last month. The judge himself and Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg were exempt.

An intermediate appellate court upheld the gag order, finding Merchan "properly weighed petitioner's First Amendment Rights against the court's historical commitment to ensuring the fair administration of justice in criminal cases and the right of persons related or tangentially related to the criminal proceedings from being free from threats, intimidation, harassment, and harm."

Donald is still bound by his gag order.

His latest appeal, as you can read, was turned away because, "This isn't even an appeal."

[Breccia]

"no substantial constitutional question is directly involved."

Well, we all know Trump said he wasn't bound by the Constitution. Maybe this is what he meant.

[Edge-]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tr...lders-7aca70ae

Trump Media & Technology Group Corp. — the company behind former President Donald Trump’s Truth Social platform — said Tuesday that regulators allowed some of its investors to resell certain securities and made certain warrants available for exercise.

Shares of Trump Media & Technology DJT, -9.82% tumbled 16.4% after hours on Tuesday, amid fears the moves would fatten the overall supply of shares, lowering their price for shareholders in the process.

The company on Tuesday said that the Securities and Exchange Commission had declared “effective” an amended registration statement for potentially millions of warrants and common shares, some of which would be issuable once the warrants are exercised. Warrants allow investors to buy or sell stocks at a pre-set price within a pre-set time period.

Trump Media & Technology said if all warrants in the registration statement were exercised for cash, the company could reap “up to an aggregate of approximately $247 million in proceeds.”

Chief Executive Devin Nunes, a former Republican lawmaker from California, said the move helped set the stage to pursue Trump Media’s streaming ambitions as well as “potential mergers and acquisitions.”

The company said it would not receive any proceeds from the sale or resale of the securities, “except in connection with any possible future exercise for cash of any outstanding warrants.” And it said company directors, officers and Trump himself — who owns around two-thirds of the company’s outstanding stock — were still subject to a lockup period and were otherwise currently barred from selling shares.

Tuesday’s share-price drop follows a steady move lower for the stock since Trump was found guilty last month of concealing a hush-money payment to a porn star.

Shares of Trump Media & Technology have seesawed, but are still up 78.9% so far this year, after a meme-stock-like run following its public debut in March. The company has called for investigations into possible illegal short-selling of its stock, although some experts have said those suspicions are unlikely to bear out.

Trump Media lost money during its first quarter.

Still going well, I see. Also, damn it's been a hot second since I saw Devin Nunes name pop up.

[Shadowferal]

Every time I see him I think, "one foot in the grave."

[Breccia]

The company said it would not receive any proceeds from the sale or resale of the securities, “except in connection with any possible future exercise for cash of any outstanding warrants.”

I'm not an expert, but in this context, "warrants" are when you let someone sell a stock to someone else at a pre-set price. For example, "We the board declare we are selling one hundred brazillion shares to Trump for $0.05 each, making your shares worthless. Shares he's allowed to sell because they weren't part of the original bargain."

And yes, I'm predicting that's basically what's going to happen. Trump is looking to cash out of his worthless property.

[Dontrike]

Every time I see him I think, "one foot in the grave."

And hopefully the other on a few banana peels.

[postman1782]

What are the chances that Trump doesn't show up to the debate he wanted so badly on June 27th?

[Breccia]

What are the chances that Trump doesn't show up to the debate he wanted so badly on June 27th?

I think Trump has been shopping for an excuse to bail and claim it's Biden's fault. Specifically, the cognitive testing and the drug testing. However, I think the response hasn't been good enough for him to use those. I think bailing with such lame excuses will cost him more support than it gets hi, I think Trump knows that, I think he's weighing whether bailing or getting his ass kicked will cost him the least, I think the rules of the debate aren't to his liking either, but in the end, I think Trump believes that bailing is the worse of the two options he has.

Bear in mind, the only reason he didn't lose the second 2020 debate to Biden was because he caught COVID and nearly died, handing Biden hours of free advertising that Trump can no longer afford to part with. Even though, by then, he knew he was a horrible debater (tore up his notes after Clinton won, for example) and still knows, he might be clinging to the faint hope that he doesn't need to debate, he needs to show up and shout things at the camera. If the moderators shut him down, asking for an actual debate, maybe he'll walk offstage and claim the debate he agreed to was still rigged somehow.

But simply put, I don't think "Biden won't take a test before the debate" polled well enough with his focus groups and campaign. I think his people told him that their market research said "If Trump bails, he's a coward and a loser" and Trump might literally rather die -- he almost did. I think he'll show up and get kicked in the metaphorical balls for several hours, then claim victory because of the bots he paid for on an online poll, rather than skip entirely and shed more points in a race that's not only turned against him, but the last line of defense between him and a prison cell.

- - - Updated - - -

Posting the entire thing. Bolding for emphasis.

Trump Loses It At Fox News, Says No One Can Trust It

Donald Trump bashed Fox News, his on-again-off-again favorite news network, on social media Wednesday, proclaiming that “nobody can ever trust” its reporting.

Trump’s screed appeared to be in response to former Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan’s appearance on the network over a week ago, when he said Trump was unfit for office.

“Nobody can ever trust Fox News, and I am one of them, with the weak and ineffective RINO, Paul Ryan, on its Board of Directors,” the presumed GOP nominee for president wrote, using the acronym for “Republican in name only.”

“He’s a total lightweight, a failed and pathetic Speaker of the House, and a very disloyal person,” the former president continued.

A representative for Fox News didn’t immediately return a request for comment on the former president’s remarks.

Ryan’s criticism during his June 11 appearance focused on Trump’s character.

“If you put yourself above the Constitution, as he has done, I think that makes you unfit for office,” he said.

The former House speaker, who retired midway through Trump’s stint in office, also blamed Trump for recent GOP election losses.

“He’s cost us a lot of seats,” Ryan said. “He cost us the Senate twice. He cost us the House because he is nominating, he is pushing through the primaries people who cannot win general elections but who pledge fealty to him.”

It’s true that several candidates Trump propelled forward have cost the GOP seats in recent years, including ex-NFL player Herschel Walker in Georgia and venture capitalist Blake Masters in Arizona.

Trump regularly sours on Fox News whenever one of the network’s hosts says anything he finds damaging to him. In January, he even lashed out at his press secretary-turned-Fox News contributor Kayleigh McEnany after she suggested he work on uniting the GOP more.

“I don’t need any advice from RINO Kayleigh McEnany on Fox,” Trump wrote on social media.

Wow. So glad I got all those FOX News points while they still had meaning!

At this point, I think this declaration means every single poster here must accept CNN as a valid, citable, quotable news source without reservation, and nobody is allowed to complain anymore. Of course we can/will still cite the NYTimes and WaPo and the like, but CNN won, FOX News lost, get over it.

"Aren't there some Dems, some indy's, and some non-American posters who don't care for CNN?"

No longer relevant. FOX News has been deemed useless, CNN was not. CNN is the winner and gets to enjoy the spoils of that victory from behind the shield of "we didn't push election fraud".

[Edge-]

Posting the entire thing. Bolding for emphasis.

Trump Loses It At Fox News, Says No One Can Trust It



Wow. So glad I got all those FOX News points while they still had meaning!

At this point, I think this declaration means every single poster here must accept CNN as a valid, citable, quotable news source without reservation, and nobody is allowed to complain anymore. Of course we can/will still cite the NYTimes and WaPo and the like, but CNN won, FOX News lost, get over it.

"Aren't there some Dems, some indy's, and some non-American posters who don't care for CNN?"

No longer relevant. FOX News has been deemed useless, CNN was not. CNN is the winner and gets to enjoy the spoils of that victory from behind the shield of "we didn't push election fraud".

Did Fox forget what happens when you contradict Dear Leader? They must have, because this isn't the first time this has happened.

Maybe Fox keeping Donald at arms length for a bit, which they've sorta given up, made them forget how he be. And Donald has been getting friendly with Newsmax and more extremist "news" outlets since Fox was having him on less, and they don't even pretend to challenge his delusions and agree with them. Newsmax would have never published this poll, they would have killed the story and made it known they killed a bad "FAKE NEWS" story to Donald's team and can they get another interview soon?

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.axios.com/2024/06/20/tru...arthur-engoron

Donald's team is again calling for Judge Engoron to recuse himself over...well it doesn't fucking matter it'll get tossed/ignored like every other desperate, pathetic attempt to evade responsibility for his actions and be held accountable for his criminal and civil issues.

- - - Updated - - -

https://apnews.com/article/trump-gre...ee6eb924803d7f

So Donald, in pandering to tech investors, just unintentionally announced quite possibly the biggest expansion of the American immigration system in recent decades - green cards for all foreign students graduating from college so they can immediately begin working.

They're gonna "take" so many more jobs from Americans!

He said he knows of stories of people who graduate from top colleges and want to stay in the U.S. but can’t secure visas to do so, forcing them to return to their native countries, specifically naming India and China. He said they go on and become multibillionaires, employing thousands of workers.

AP continuing to uncritically repeat the bullshit stories Donald makes up is wild to me. Like, the absolute lack of any real serious professional standards here is unfortunate. I should write to them, we use AP Style at work and even pay for an account and I don't like how they're still somehow treating Donald as if he's an individual that participates in good faith or should be given the presumption of honesty at this point. It's utterly detached from reality.

[Benggaul]

AP continuing to uncritically repeat the bullshit stories Donald makes up is wild to me. Like, the absolute lack of any real serious professional standards here is unfortunate. I should write to them, we use AP Style at work and even pay for an account and I don't like how they're still somehow treating Donald as if he's an individual that participates in good faith or should be given the presumption of honesty at this point. It's utterly detached from reality.

AP's whole thing is just reporting facts without much spin. It's what makes them one of the most unbiased sources of news available. This isn't some glowup of Trump's position, by the way, as the rest of the article outlines how this is completely in contrast with most other things he's had to say about immigration in the past including:

Trump has blamed immigrants who are in the country illegally for committing crimes, stealing jobs and government resources, and suggested that they are “poisoning the blood of our country.” He has promised to carry out the largest deportation operation in U.S. history if elected.

I'm not going to criticize them for continuing to just relay facts as long as they're relaying ALL the facts.

[Edge-]

AP's whole thing is just reporting facts without much spin. It's what makes them one of the most unbiased sources of news available. This isn't some glowup of Trump's position, by the way, as the rest of the article outlines how this is completely in contrast with most other things he's had to say about immigration in the past including:



I'm not going to criticize them for continuing to just relay facts as long as they're relaying ALL the facts.

I'm gonna put them on blast for not doing a better job as framing his story as vague and wholly unsupported with a single piece of evidence or example. I got no bones about that.

And tell a conservative they're unbiased, they'll get offended or laugh at you for being "stupid". They're libs. I don't think AP are a bunch of secret conservatives or anything, but I think they're still functioning as if this is decades ago and people they're report on are participating and acting, largely, in good faith.

[Kaleredar]

So Donald, in pandering to tech investors, just unintentionally announced quite possibly the biggest expansion of the American immigration system in recent decades - green cards for all foreign students graduating from college so they can immediately begin working.

They're gonna "take" so many more jobs from Americans!



AP continuing to uncritically repeat the bullshit stories Donald makes up is wild to me. Like, the absolute lack of any real serious professional standards here is unfortunate. I should write to them, we use AP Style at work and even pay for an account and I don't like how they're still somehow treating Donald as if he's an individual that participates in good faith or should be given the presumption of honesty at this point. It's utterly detached from reality.

Hot take: this sentiment at face value isn't a terrible idea. Trump's random grasping at bullshit numbers aside, incentivizing educated people to stay in the US and fast track them to citizenship which then also helps alleviate pressures on the immigration system is an interesting concept.

However, remember. This is Trump proposing this. Which means even if he were honest about wanting to do it (which would require doing something, so he probably isn't) that would mean he would need to have competent people (with whom he does not surround himself) draft cogent legislation (something he and the GOP have no interest in) and then see it through to passing. And because I don't immediately see a way that this puts money in Trump's pocket, I'm going to guess it's hot air.

[Edge-]

Hot take: this sentiment at face value isn't a terrible idea. Trump's random grasping at bullshit numbers aside, incentivizing educated people to stay in the US and fast track them to citizenship which then also helps alleviate pressures on the immigration system is an interesting concept.

However, remember. This is Trump proposing this. Which means even if he were honest about wanting to do it (which would require doing something, so he probably isn't) that would mean he would need to have competent people (with whom he does not surround himself) draft cogent legislation (something he and the GOP have no interest in) and then see it through to passing. And because I don't immediately see a way that this puts money in Trump's pocket, I'm going to guess it's hot air.

I agree. In general I have no major opposition to this proposal, though I'd rather pursue more comprehensive reform that includes something like this vs. isolated policies here or there. I'm absolutely sure Donald isn't remotely the first person to make such a proposal though.

But I still don't think he understands what he just proposed. I really hope someone asks him about it directly.

- - - Updated - - -

Steve is still reporting to prison on July 1, a federal court of appeals panel said Banon isn't special and gets to go to prison like everyone else after they're convicted and sentenced.

[Benggaul]

I'm gonna put them on blast for not doing a better job as framing his story as vague and wholly unsupported with a single piece of evidence or example. I got no bones about that.

Huh? They were literally just reporting that he said he was going to do something and immediately followed it up by demonstrating it's unlikely he'd actually do it based on his past statements. So I'd say they absolutely did point out that it was unsupported.

Also I couldn't give less of a fuck what "conservatives" think about them or Reuters or the like. They aren't reading it anyway.

[solinari6]

Hot take: this sentiment at face value isn't a terrible idea. Trump's random grasping at bullshit numbers aside, incentivizing educated people to stay in the US and fast track them to citizenship which then also helps alleviate pressures on the immigration system is an interesting concept.

I think AOC should grab hold of this idea and run with it. AOC: Yes! This is a great idea, let's draft up a law! Let's make the republicans vote against trumps own ideas! LOL

[Edge-]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-death-threats

Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney who prosecuted Donald Trump in his felony trial, has asked a judge to extend a gag order against the ex-president after an onslaught of threats and harassment against him and other officials since the guilty verdict.

The gag order was placed on Trump before the start of the felony trial. It prevented the former president from attacking witnesses, court staff, jurors and relatives of Judge Juan Merchan, who oversaw the trial.

Trump’s legal team has unsuccessfully attempted to overturn the gag order, arguing that it prevents voters from being able to hear from a presidential candidate.

But Bragg and others have said that part of the order should remain for jurors, prosecutors, their staff and their families, given a high number of threats, the New York Times reported.

Bragg specifically has faced an onslaught of death threats and harassment since Trump was found guilty. He has received more than 100 threatening emails via his campaign website, the New York Daily News reported, citing a source who asked to remain anonymous.

Several of the abusive messages obtained by the Daily News use racial slurs including the N-word, “gorilla” and “primate”, it reported, adding that Bragg also faced death threats and racial abuse throughout the seven-week trial.

In one instance, a package was sent to Bragg from Portland, Oregon, containing a picture of Bragg alongside a noose, with the caption: “I am past the point of just wanting them in prison.”

The New York police department has logged 56 “actionable threats” since the start of April against Bragg, his employees, and his family, the Times reported.

A representative for Bragg did not respond to a request for comment.

Donald's supporters seem nice!

Also - https://x.com/AGAndrewBailey/status/1803942813245280715

BREAKING: I will be filing suit against the State of New York for their direct attack on our democratic process through unconstitutional lawfare against President Trump.

It’s time to restore the rule of law.

The AG of the "great" state of Missouri announced he's filing a lawsuit against the state of New York because they prosecuted Donald Trump under state law and he was found guilty by a jury of his peers and damnit that's "lawfare".

Unsure what he's specifically suing over (vague "unconstitutional" mention) or what standing he has to sue another state for executing their state laws, but damnit he's trying to make sure Donald-senpai notices him!

- - - Updated - - -

https://apnews.com/article/trump-gre...ee6eb924803d7f

So Donald, in pandering to tech investors, just unintentionally announced quite possibly the biggest expansion of the American immigration system in recent decades - green cards for all foreign students graduating from college so they can immediately begin working.

They're gonna "take" so many more jobs from Americans!



AP continuing to uncritically repeat the bullshit stories Donald makes up is wild to me. Like, the absolute lack of any real serious professional standards here is unfortunate. I should write to them, we use AP Style at work and even pay for an account and I don't like how they're still somehow treating Donald as if he's an individual that participates in good faith or should be given the presumption of honesty at this point. It's utterly detached from reality.

https://www.salon.com/2024/06/21/rig...nesty-promise/

It's very unlikely Donald had any idea what he just proposed, as I earlier claimed (I stand by it), but some people apparently weren't so completely oblvious.

Conservative columnist Pedro Gonzalez blasted the plan as a “de facto amnesty.”

“It’s completely unacceptable,” Gonzales wrote on X, adding that the plan would “undermine employment opportunities for American college grads who took the advice to work hard and go to school.”

“Anyone who claims to be an immigration restrictionist and doesn’t call this out is a fraud. This is a policy that Biden himself could have come up with,” Gonzales said.

Well that's not too bad, at least.

Some expressed a desire for Trump to bring white supremacist and anti-immigrant Stephen Miller back into the advisory fold, with one X user joking that he “need[s] Stephen Miller to tattoo the actual immigration policy on the back of Trump’s hand.”

Oh...ok yeah we're starting to get worse.

Other critics noted the potential impacts on universities, like immigration restriction activist Jeremy Beck, who told the Washington Post that the plan would “turn colleges into visa mills.”

Likely unintentional, but an actual salient point that would create a problem of turning that into a pathway for wealthy foreigners to buy themselves or their children's way to citizenship if they aren't quite rich enough for the "I'm rich" visas and the like.

The Trump campaign made sure to roll back his apparent endorsement of the idea in part, with campaign spokesperson Karoline Leavitt outlining a screening process to weed out “communists, radical Islamists, Hamas supporters, [and] America haters.”

Oh, at least someone, at some point, started thinking about what this might actually mean. Even if the answer was, "We'll magically only let in the good people."

“Trump is (hopefully) misleading us with the green card stuff, to deflate the issue. I can’t see him actually going through with that proposal,” an X user wrote.

Copium intake intensifies.