Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Poopymonster]

Like, undocumented workers thrive because of the market for undocumented workers. That shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp; if there was no such market, they couldn't find work, and wouldn't be able to pay their bills and stick around.

So if that market exists, and you punish those workers seeking to engage with it, but not those providing those jobs, you aren't actually worried about undocumented workers. You're exploiting and abusing those workers by denying them legal protections, while ensuring there will always be a rotating cadre of undocumented workers. If you really wanted to stop the problem, you'd target those providing the work, not the workers they're exploiting.

Same reason you don't attack illegal drug use by exclusively targeting drug users and giving drug dealers and traffickers a free pass to conduct their business. That would be insane, right? Well, that's how the US handles undocumented immigration.

Republicans don't want to stop undocumented immigration. They want to keep those workers threatened and afraid, so they're easier to exploit. They like that a farmer can hire a bunch of undocumented workers for harvest and then call ICE to raid their barracks on payday so all those laborers get deported and they don't have to pay them anything for the last few weeks of work.

You can also ask some basic questions; if we gave every undocumented immigrant a visa and a green card, does that solve the issue for you? They're no longer undocumented, so it should, right? If it doesn't, you're just being racist. It's that simple, really.

But then they'd have to, you know, pay them minimum wage and other assorted workplace safeguards.
All that governmental bullshit, ya know?

[Bodakane]

Its time we talk about this whole notion of too may regulations because of a too big of a government nonsense.

We have so many regulations because of two reasons:

1. To allow businesses to have the freedom to build their business how they want. Take OSHA regs for fire suppression systems for example. There's a lot of regs about the amount of water flow, pipe size, area coverage, etc. That's because OSHA knows every business has a different building, layout, workflow, etc. and they want to create regs that adapt to the space, instead of forcing businesses to have identical structures.

2. The biggest reason is that businesses are always trying to circumvent/loophole the regs instead of complying with the spirit of the regulation. Look at fire extinguishers. Back in the day, lots of people were dying because businesses didn't have fire extinguishers. So they said you have to have some fire suppression. So maybe the business puts a bucket of water in the middle of their 20,000 sq ft facility and called it done. So now the government has to say, no that's not sufficient you need a proper fire extinguisher. So they swap the bucket for one fire extinguisher. Of course that's not really enough either so now the government has to get super specific about how many extinguishers you need every 75 ft or closer if doing extra dangerous work like welding. So basically each time the gov has to be more specific it creates more and more regs. The government is trying to save lives and property and the business owners are trying spend the least amount as possible without real regard for anything else.

[DarkTZeratul]

Its time we talk about this whole notion of too may regulations because of a too big of a government nonsense.

We have so many regulations because of two reasons:

1. To allow businesses to have the freedom to build their business how they want. Take OSHA regs for fire suppression systems for example. There's a lot of regs about the amount of water flow, pipe size, area coverage, etc. That's because OSHA knows every business has a different building, layout, workflow, etc. and they want to create regs that adapt to the space, instead of forcing businesses to have identical structures.

2. The biggest reason is that businesses are always trying to circumvent/loophole the regs instead of complying with the spirit of the regulation. Look at fire extinguishers. Back in the day, lots of people were dying because businesses didn't have fire extinguishers. So they said you have to have some fire suppression. So maybe the business puts a bucket of water in the middle of their 20,000 sq ft facility and called it done. So now the government has to say, no that's not sufficient you need a proper fire extinguisher. So they swap the bucket for one fire extinguisher. Of course that's not really enough either so now the government has to get super specific about how many extinguishers you need every 75 ft or closer if doing extra dangerous work like welding. So basically each time the gov has to be more specific it creates more and more regs. The government is trying to save lives and property and the business owners are trying spend the least amount as possible without real regard for anything else.

There's an old saying that most regulations are written in blood.

[Bodakane]

There's an old saying that most regulations are written in blood.

It's very true.

One of my jobs is working for a place that shows companies how to comply with OSHA, EPA and DOT regs. There's not a single client we've ever had that doesn't try to circumvent as many regs as they can, even after an accident where someone is seriously hurt or worse.

[Sunseeker]

It's very true.

One of my jobs is working for a place that shows companies how to comply with OSHA, EPA and DOT regs. There's not a single client we've ever had that doesn't try to circumvent as many regs as they can, even after an accident where someone is seriously hurt or worse.

Truck stop I worked for killed a guy because they refused to call whoever they were supposed to call when there were big fuel spills, forced their janitors to clean up spills, and refused to provide any PPE.

And not even really because they were trying to skirt regulations, they were, but also because they were nepo assholes who saw anyone who wasnt related as disposible.

I dont know the details, but I know they got sued since it was literally that easy to prove this poor guys lungs were fried from inhaling gas fumes. Theyre obviously still in business all over the midwest, because killing people out of sheer maliciousness is hardly going to stop an American business.

[Bodakane]

Truck stop I worked for killed a guy because they refused to call whoever they were supposed to call when there were big fuel spills, forced their janitors to clean up spills, and refused to provide any PPE.

And not even really because they were trying to skirt regulations, they were, but also because they were nepo assholes who saw anyone who wasnt related as disposible.

I dont know the details, but I know they got sued since it was literally that easy to prove this poor guys lungs were fried from inhaling gas fumes. Theyre obviously still in business all over the midwest, because killing people out of sheer maliciousness is hardly going to stop an American business.

Most business owners (and Repubs) want the world to be like the show Deadwood. "You can't tell me what to do, I was great enough to open a business!!!!!"

[Poopymonster]

Most business owners (and Repubs) want the world to be like the show Deadwood. "You can't tell me what to do, I was great enough to open a business!!!!!"

Cyberpunk 2020 TTRPG.

[Kaleredar]

Most business owners (and Repubs) want the world to be like the show Deadwood. "You can't tell me what to do, I was great enough to open a business!!!!!"

…until the guy with the most money rolls in and puts them all in their place, using violence and coercion to force complicity.

They just hope that they’re on that guy’s good side. Though if I recall correctly most mewling lackeys on that show ended up with their throats slit.

[Poopymonster]

…until the guy with the most money rolls in and puts them all in their place, using violence and coercion to force complicity.

They just hope that they’re on that guy’s good side. Though if I recall correctly most mewling lackeys on that show ended up with their throats slit.

That leopard won't eat MY face.

[Endus]

Cyberpunk 2020 TTRPG.

There's a lot to be said culturally about Cyberpunk as a genre, beyond just that particular franchise, and how attractive people see it as being. The argument is essentially that cyberpunk stories aren't actually much more dystopic than the actual world we have to live in, but on the one hand everyone acknowledges the bullshit rather than pretending otherwise as they do in the real world, and at least you get cool VR tech and cybernetics and all that cool shit to distract yourself with, which we don't have.

Living in the world of Blade Runner or Cyberpunk 2077's dystopia comes off as more appealing than the dystopia we already live in. One of my first experiences in Cyberpunk 2077 was getting to your shit-ass gutter rat's apartment for the first time, and it's . . . actually super nice and comfortable and probably out of the price range of a lot of people in the real world.

[Edge-]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/15/trum...ck-plunge.html

Trading in Trump Media shares was briefly halted Tuesday due to volatility, after the Truth Social owner’s stock suddenly plunged in price.

Shares continued to fall after the five-minute trading halt lifted at 12:47 p.m. ET.

The stock, which had been up more than 13% earlier Tuesday afternoon, had abruptly turned more than 6% lower on the day at the time the halt occurred.

The whipsawing stock price came during an extremely high-volume trading session, in which more than 76 million shares had traded hands by 3 p.m. — multiple times the company’s 30-day average trading volume.

So are folks cashing out on the grift or something?

[Sunseeker]

There's a lot to be said culturally about Cyberpunk as a genre, beyond just that particular franchise, and how attractive people see it as being. The argument is essentially that cyberpunk stories aren't actually much more dystopic than the actual world we have to live in, but on the one hand everyone acknowledges the bullshit rather than pretending otherwise as they do in the real world, and at least you get cool VR tech and cybernetics and all that cool shit to distract yourself with, which we don't have.

Living in the world of Blade Runner or Cyberpunk 2077's dystopia comes off as more appealing than the dystopia we already live in. One of my first experiences in Cyberpunk 2077 was getting to your shit-ass gutter rat's apartment for the first time, and it's . . . actually super nice and comfortable and probably out of the price range of a lot of people in the real world.

One of the big problems with cyberpunk, and frankly a lot of punk in general, is that it rarely focuses on the plight of the common man. You are usually a couple steps up the ladder(thanks to cool powers, money, luck, etc..) from where you would actually be if you were in that setting. Youd be that gutter trash with the pincers for an arm because your boss forced you to replace your hand to get a job. IF you even have a job.

But yeah thats horribly depressing to play/watch so obviously we see post-apocalypitc car chases and chosen ones and whatever else, which make the setting seem "appealing".

Sure, people are aware theyre living in a dystopian nighmare, but just like now none of them can do fuckall about it. It wouldnt be a dystopian hellscape if everyone had the power(social, economic, or luck) of the protag of 2077.

[Endus]

One of the big problems with cyberpunk, and frankly a lot of punk in general, is that it rarely focuses on the plight of the common man. You are usually a couple steps up the ladder(thanks to cool powers, money, luck, etc..) from where you would actually be if you were in that setting. Youd be that gutter trash with the pincers for an arm because your boss forced you to replace your hand to get a job. IF you even have a job.

But yeah thats horribly depressing to play/watch so obviously we see post-apocalypitc car chases and chosen ones and whatever else, which make the setting seem "appealing".

Sure, people are aware theyre living in a dystopian nighmare, but just like now none of them can do fuckall about it. It wouldnt be a dystopian hellscape if everyone had the power(social, economic, or luck) of the protag of 2077.

I absolutely don't even mean living as the protagonist in these dystopic fictions, though. You see plenty of people living fairly okay lives. Sure, crushed under the oppressive burden of corporatocracy and without any real potential to dream it can ever get better and drugging/entertaining themselves into a numb acceptance as a drone in the corporate hive, yeah.

But that's where we already are. We could have that and cooler clothing and cyberpunk aesthetics and fairly widespread access to cyberware; getting optics installed is probably about the same pricerange as LASIK services today, but then you can get a HUD and take video calls in your head and get telescopic perfect vision and so on.

Whatever the shittiest jobs you see in a cyberpunk setting, there's a real-world equivalent that's probably at least as horrible. The furthest extremes where you get people paid to be guinea pigs for corpo R&D with minimal legal constraints are the exception, but that's not most people, just the most desperate. Sure, you might get high on some cheap-ass drug and drown in your own vomit in an alley, but that already happens.

The worst in Cyberpunk isn't much worse than the worst of reality, is the point. It's just more honest about it all.

[Sunseeker]

I absolutely don't even mean living as the protagonist in these dystopic fictions, though. You see plenty of people living fairly okay lives. Sure, crushed under the oppressive burden of corporatocracy and without any real potential to dream it can ever get better and drugging/entertaining themselves into a numb acceptance as a drone in the corporate hive, yeah.

But that's where we already are. We could have that and cooler clothing and cyberpunk aesthetics and fairly widespread access to cyberware; getting optics installed is probably about the same pricerange as LASIK services today, but then you can get a HUD and take video calls in your head and get telescopic perfect vision and so on.

Whatever the shittiest jobs you see in a cyberpunk setting, there's a real-world equivalent that's probably at least as horrible. The furthest extremes where you get people paid to be guinea pigs for corpo R&D with minimal legal constraints are the exception, but that's not most people, just the most desperate. Sure, you might get high on some cheap-ass drug and drown in your own vomit in an alley, but that already happens.

The worst in Cyberpunk isn't much worse than the worst of reality, is the point. It's just more honest about it all.

I disagree, and comparing the bottom doesnt make for a useful comparison. All buckets have bottoms. Some buckets have less shit in them though.

The average median is much lower in cyberpunk. Yeah, cool tech exists, but youre too poor for cool tech. You get shit tech. Downgrades from your natural body parts that are either required by your oppressors, because you sold your body parts for money, or were lost trying to recover scrap.

You dont get a cool eye with a hud. You sold your eye for food. You now have one eye. If youre lucky, you get a robo eye that looks lile the Borg designed it and it gives you 1995 CCTV quality vision. When it works.

Mass media does not, and will not underscore just how fucking low the median is in punk fiction anymore. Even Star Trek has a bottom to its bucket, and it too is pretty shit(see: human colonists) but theres a lot less shit piled on top.

Dont get me wrong, I get the appeal. Its the same appeal getting isekaied to some medieval fantasy land is. I'm just pointing out we are NOT being shown just how horrendously bad it it is, not for the lowest, but for the middle.

[Edge-]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/15/trum...d-florida.html

Philip Esformes, whose 20-year prison sentence for a massive, $1.3 billion Medicare fraud scheme was commuted in 2020 by then-President Donald Trump, was arrested over the weekend in Florida on domestic-violence related charges.

Esformes is at least the seventh person who received executive clemency from Trump, only to be charged with new crimes.

Esformes, who had owned Florida nursing homes, was convicted at trial in 2019 of 20 criminal counts related to what the Department of Justice at the time said was the largest health-care fraud scheme ever prosecuted by the department.

Gosh, it seems like Donald primarily aimed at commuting sentence or granting clemency to some dogshit people. Not sure I'd give clemency to the guy behind the "largest health-care fraud scheme ever" at the time of his arrest and conviction.

[DarkTZeratul]

So Washington Post shared some commentary on one of Trump's answers to a question, and I'm just going to quote it in its entirety because A) Paywall, and B) it's just fantastic. For ease of reading, I'm in-lining their footnotes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...rocery-prices/

Donald Trump’s town-hall-style campaign event in Pennsylvania on Monday understandably attracted more attention for its conclusion than for its contents. But the actual question-and-answer period did provide useful insights that should not be overlooked.

One of the questions posed to Trump — apparently prescreened by the campaign — came from a Black woman standing behind him on the stage. Reading from a card, the woman said she had been raised in a Democratic, union household in Philadelphia before (as other question-askers said as well) seeing the light about America’s problems — and, in particular, how they affect the Black community.

“Like my fellow Americans,” the woman said, “my grocery bill has not gone down. Everything is still so very expensive. What steps will your administration take to help American families suffering from this inflation?”

What follows is Trump’s response in its entirety. Some audience feedback is indicated, and we’ve added some footnotes for clarification and correction.

So, you know, it’s such a great question in the sense that people don’t think of grocery. You know, it sounds like not such an important word when you talk about homes and everything else, right? But more people tell me about grocery bills, where the price of bacon, the price of lettuce, the price of tomatoes, they tell me.

The Wall Street Journal recently conducted a survey of economists. Overwhelmingly, they indicated that Trump’s stated economic policies — heavy on tariffs that would raise the cost of goods for Americans — would be inflationary.

And we’re going to do a lot of things.

You know, our farmers aren’t being treated properly. And we had a deal with China, and it was a great deal — I never mentioned it because once covid came in, I said, that was a bridge too far because I had a great relationship with President Xi [Jinping]. And he’s a fierce man and he’s a man that likes China and I understand that. But we had a deal and he was perfect on that deal, $50 billion he was going to buy.

Trump’s former national security adviser John Bolton claimed that Trump had pushed the Chinese president to buy goods from American farmers specifically to boost his reelection bid. In part thanks to the pandemic, the purchases stipulated in the deal were not made.

We were doing numbers like you wouldn’t believe, for the farmer. But the farmers are very badly hurt. The farmers in this country, we’re going to get them straightened out. We’re going to get your prices down.

But you asked another question about safety and also about Black population jobs and Hispanic population in particular those two.

She did not ask this question.

So when millions of people pour into our country, they’re having a devastating effect on Black families and Hispanic families more than any others.

Black and Hispanic unemployment hit record lows during the Biden administration.

I think it’s going to spread to unions. I think unions are going to have a big problem because, you know, employers are just not going to pay the price. They’re going to — and it’s going to be — it’s a very bad thing that’s happening.

So they’re coming in. Many are coming in from jails and prisons and mental institutions, insane asylums.

These comments about prisons and insane asylums are years-old rhetoric from Trump that is not substantiated.

That’s like, you know, step above, right? Insane asylum. And whenever I go, Hannibal Lecter, you know what I’m talking about. They always go — the fake news. That’s a lot of fake news back there, too.

[Boos from the audience.]

They always mention — you know, it’s a way of demeaning, they say, ‘Hannibal Lecter, why would he mention?’

Here’s the answer to the very good question of why Trump keeps talking about 1990s movie character Hannibal Lecter.

Well, you know why, because he was a sick puppy, and we have sick puppies coming into our country. I figured that’s a lot — that’s better than wasting a lot of words. You just say, ‘Hannibal Lecter. We don’t want him.’ But. But they always sort of say, ‘Why would he say that?’ I do it for a lot of reasons.

But I do it because we are allowing some very bad people into our country. And they’re coming as terrorists. You know, you saw the other day, last month they had the record number of terrorists.

Like many on the right, Trump opportunistically conflates being on the Terrorist Screening Dataset with being a terrorist. While apprehensions of people on that watch list between border checkpoints are up, more people on the watch list were stopped at the southwest border in 2019, under Trump, than at any point in Joe Biden’s presidency.

I had a month — and I love Border Patrol.

Did you see they gave me a full endorsement two days ago? Border Patrol.

The union of Border Patrol agents endorsed Trump, not the government agency.

[Cheers from the audience.]

The Border Patrol. And they’re great. And, you know, they want to do their job. They don’t want to let these people come in. They look at them. They can tell. They can look at somebody, say good, bad. They say what’s coming into our country now, it’s having a huge negative impact on Black families and on Hispanic families and ultimately on everybody.

And we’re going to close that border so tight. It’s going to be closed. And I said the two things I’m going to do, first, we’re going to close that border —

Trump was probably going to refer to his “dictator on day one” pledge of addressing the border and drilling for oil, if he hadn’t gotten sidetracked.

and people are going to come in. You want people to come in. We need people to come in. People are going to come into our country legally.

You know, it’s so unfair. You have people that are waiting on a system, in a line and they’ve been waiting in this line. You know how long? For years, 10 years, 12 years and they study and they take tests. And then people come. I actually say, ‘Why don’t you just go and just come on across?’ I tell people that it’s terrible, right? I said, ‘Go out. You’re incredible.’ They say, ‘What can I do to speed up the process?’ I say, ‘You know what, go to the southern border. I’ll see you on the other side.’ It’s so unfair.

This comment about going to the southern border is not good advice, unless the people Trump knows have viable reasons to seek asylum in the United States.

But we’re going to have them come in legally. You have to see what they have to do. They take tests on, you know, who was the first one here? What date was this? What does 1776 mean? All this stuff.

And these other people are coming in and they’re affecting the school systems and they’re affecting the hospital system. I mean, if you take a look at what’s going on in Springfield, Ohio, a town of 50,000 people, they’ve just added 32,000 people. Illegal immigrants.

The number of immigrants from Haiti presented by Trump is exaggerated. More important, they are in the country legally.

And we’re not going to put up with it.

And we’re going to take care of your costs are going to come down, and you’re not going to have a problem with — because the biggest problem, and I’m hearing it from Black people and to a lesser extent right now, but it’ll be the same, Hispanic people.

And I’ll tell you what, our poll numbers have gone through the roof. With Black and Hispanic, have gone through the roof.

Trump’s poll numbers with Black and Hispanic voters are better than the support he saw in 2020, but he is still losing with both groups.

And I like that. I like that. I like that. So we’re going to take care of it. You will be — I’ll tell you, if everything works out, if everybody gets out and votes on January 5th.

Election Day is Nov. 5.

Or before.

You know, it used to be, you’d have a date. Today, you can vote two months before, probably three months after. They don’t know what the hell they’re doing. But we’re going to straighten it all out. We’re going to straighten that out. We’re going to straighten our election process out, too. That’s going to be important, also. So thank you very much, darling. We’re going to get it straight. Thank you.

And that is how Trump will address inflation.

[Edge-]

The problem is that it takes so much longer to correct and provide context for the firehose of bullshit that comes out of Donald's mouth every time he opens it, and especially if he's not immediately challenged to his face that work is largely wasted since a fraction of the people who saw/heard his law will seek out or come across the context/reality of it all.

I just hate that American media still seemingly haven't the foggiest clue how to handle a Republican brazenly lying to their face in bad faith and intentionally weaponizing the interview/whatever to spread more misinformation and lies.

[Masark]

I just hate that American media still seemingly haven't the foggiest clue how to handle a Republican brazenly lying to their face in bad faith and intentionally weaponizing the interview/whatever to spread more misinformation and lies.

They know exactly how to handle it.

They sit there, let them lie, and make money off it.

[Breccia]

So are folks cashing out on the grift or something?

I don't think so. The stock's price was way too high, and is still too high. This feels more like it was an arranged trade behind the scenes.

- - - Updated - - -

You know, it used to be, you’d have a date. Today, you can vote two months before, probably three months after. They don’t know what the hell they’re doing. But we’re going to straighten it all out. We’re going to straighten that out. We’re going to straighten our election process out, too. That’s going to be important, also. So thank you very much, darling. We’re going to get it straight. Thank you.

(sighs)

Okay, you know the deal.
@tehdang and anyone else who cares to answer, I'm giving you a choice of three.

1) Name the state in which you can vote three months after election. Bear in mind, we are talking about the federal election, the one certified Jan 6th, which in turn is two months after the election. So...good luck.

2) Explain what role the federal government has in "straightening out" elections, which for the most part, are state run. And no, when Trump gave that answer, he was not talking about "get your state government to straighten it out". He said "we" during a campaign event. He was talking about the federal government.

3) Find the part in the interview where Trump was asked the question about Election Day and what needed to be straightened out.

Failure to do so means I will quote you as agreeing that Trump was intentionally lying about voting three months late, was talking about a dictator-like takeover of elections, and that he made the question up.

[gondrin]

I don't think so. The stock's price was way too high, and is still too high. This feels more like it was an arranged trade behind the scenes.

- - - Updated - - -



(sighs)

Okay, you know the deal.
@tehdang and anyone else who cares to answer, I'm giving you a choice of three.

1) Name the state in which you can vote three months after election. Bear in mind, we are talking about the federal election, the one certified Jan 6th, which in turn is two months after the election. So...good luck.

2) Explain what role the federal government has in "straightening out" elections, which for the most part, are state run. And no, when Trump gave that answer, he was not talking about "get your state government to straighten it out". He said "we" during a campaign event. He was talking about the federal government.

3) Find the part in the interview where Trump was asked the question about Election Day and what needed to be straightened out.

Failure to do so means I will quote you as agreeing that Trump was intentionally lying about voting three months late, was talking about a dictator-like takeover of elections, and that he made the question up.

Well, to the first part, there is no state, no jurisdiction in the US that allows anyone to cast a ballot after election day. They will accept ballots that have been cast before election day that arrive afterwards due to people being outside of the country at the time, like if they are in the military or on vacation and cannot get back or an absentee ballot for people who cannot leave the house due to a disability or are infirm in some form.

Otherwise, it has never been a thing, even if you are standing in line on Election Day and you cannot get into a polling location until after the polls close. They allow people to still cast their ballot as long as they were in line before the deadline.

If Trump, or anyone, can show one single ballot that was cast a few months PAST Election Day(not postmarked but actually cast) that was accepted, I will actively say Trump is right.