1. #92761
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Part of the strategy here that Trump and Musk are employing here is that they're inserting a poison pill for the Dems in 2028.

    Like seriously, what are they going to campaign on in 2028? Raising taxes and reinflating the size of govt? There will be zero political capital for any of that.

    I think some of you have underestimated just how badly Dems have been played here.
    I think it speaks to a lack of imagination that -that- is the only concievable future you see for both this administration and opposition politicking.

    Harris lost on the Economy, despite it being relatively okay in comparison to our peers, and only by narrow margains that have allowed downballot Dems to pick up or secure seats from Republican Opponents. This was a mandate against the Establishment, not Democrats, and if Trump gleefully fucks everything up to a degree that cannot be ignored, then there's a very easy campaign to run against his successor.

    Not that Dems -cannot- fuck it up, mind, but it's utterly foolish to think the party is dead forever when both parties have recovered from far worse.

  2. #92762
    The Lightbringer tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    He's all those things yet still single handedly destroyed the Democratic party for probably a couple of decades, if not forever. What does that say about THEM?

    Blame the voters again, see how that works out. I think deep down inside, you are terrified that the Dem brand is so utterly toxic right now, that if the next 4 years are even halfway decent, then you're looking at 8 years of Vance winning easily. It's like you're almost rooting for America to fail.
    Hold your horses. He made the Democratic party focused on resistancy opposition for maybe 12 years, and the only consequence was a bad candidate (2 bad candidates) in the eighth year trying to make "I'm not Him" a substantive policy platform.

    2008 had so many smart people declaring that Obama had created the "Emerging Democratic Majority" (a book on the subject), and using that to predict two decades of Democratic control. In reality, the House popular vote swung 17% towards Republicans in just two years, and Republicans retook the white house in eight years.

    Right now, Democrats are doing a performative routine for defeat and disappointment, in essence (sometimes literally) saying "Fuck those trash voters that didn't support Kamala. We don't want them, they're obviously racist sexist and anti-Democracy, we have to find a way to boost turnout that isn't them." That's temporary. Democrats will return to reality, and focus on getting Clinton-Biden-Trump voters back on their side. They'll let all the nasty bitterness be lost to time, and welcome them all back as buyers-remorse or finally-came-to-their-senses voters. This is probably with a candidate that doesn't engage in censorious culture-war bullshit.

    You should also recognize that Trump's character defects and wrong-headed ideas cost him a winnable 2020 election just four years ago. He'll do it again. People in their late 70s/soon-to-be early 80s very rarely change.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  3. #92763
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    It's what she'll be remembered for.

    The only thing.
    Is it worst than being a rapist?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    He's all those things yet still single handedly destroyed the Democratic party for probably a couple of decades, if not forever. What does that say about THEM?

    Blame the voters again, see how that works out. I think deep down inside, you are terrified that the Dem brand is so utterly toxic right now, that if the next 4 years are even halfway decent, then you're looking at 8 years of Vance winning easily. It's like you're almost rooting for America to fail.
    Why did you think being a rapist was better than being a Democrat?

  4. #92764
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomcookie View Post
    Is it worst than being a rapist?
    Losing an election to one? It's not worse, but its pretty pathetic.

  5. #92765
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Why do you disagree?

    They've lost 2 out of 3 elections to Trump in relatively blowout fashion. They've lost all 3 branches. Lost SCOTUS for generations. Lost most governor's mansions. Lost most state legislatures.

    Feels like early 80s with Reagan x 2 and Bush for 12 years are incoming.
    And you supported that all the way down the line.

    Care to explain why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Part of the strategy here that Trump and Musk are employing here is that they're inserting a poison pill for the Dems in 2028.

    Like seriously, what are they going to campaign on in 2028? Raising taxes and reinflating the size of govt? There will be zero political capital for any of that.

    I think some of you have underestimated just how badly Dems have been played here.
    Worse than being a rapist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Economy was fine until COVID hit, which was going to hurt the economy regardless who was in charge. Dems just had bad timing with having to take the blame for both sides pumping trillions into the economy.

    I still think tariffs are largely a negotiating tactic. I think you will see it used more as a tuning knob rather than a sledgehammer.
    The economy is fine, now.

    Lying is weird.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Losing an election to one? It's not worse, but its pretty pathetic.
    Well, people will seem to find any justification for being trash.

  6. #92766
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomcookie View Post

    Well, people will seem to find any justification for being trash.
    It should have been a free win because of Trump just being a rapist, fraudster, fellon, liar, misogynist, cheat, piece of shit with designs on self admittedly wanting to rule as a dictator and do away with elections - and that's barely the half of it.

    Yet, even after 4 years, where Biden was only supposed to be a one term stopgap, they could neither find anyone better, nor find some interesting eyecatching policy ideas to not just mount a challenge, but to straight up lose to him.

    It is pathetic.

  7. #92767
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It should have been a free win because of Trump just being a rapist, fraudster, fellon, liar, misogynist, cheat, piece of shit with designs on self admittedly wanting to rule as a dictator and do away with elections - and that's barely the half of it.

    Yet, even after 4 years, where Biden was only supposed to be a one term stopgap, they could neither find anyone better, nor find some interesting eyecatching policy ideas to not just mount a challenge, but to straight up lose to him.

    It is pathetic.
    Ah, are we absolving voters of having voted for all of the bold? Far too many seem to want that.

  8. #92768
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It should have been a free win because of Trump just being a rapist, fraudster, fellon, liar, misogynist, cheat, piece of shit with designs on self admittedly wanting to rule as a dictator and do away with elections - and that's barely the half of it.

    Yet, even after 4 years, where Biden was only supposed to be a one term stopgap, they could neither find anyone better, nor find some interesting eyecatching policy ideas to not just mount a challenge, but to straight up lose to him.

    It is pathetic.
    American voters as a whole are pretty damn ignorant. And let's be honest, most people are plain trash.

  9. #92769
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Hold your horses. He made the Democratic party focused on resistancy opposition for maybe 12 years, and the only consequence was a bad candidate (2 bad candidates) in the eighth year trying to make "I'm not Him" a substantive policy platform.

    2008 had so many smart people declaring that Obama had created the "Emerging Democratic Majority" (a book on the subject), and using that to predict two decades of Democratic control. In reality, the House popular vote swung 17% towards Republicans in just two years, and Republicans retook the white house in eight years.

    Right now, Democrats are doing a performative routine for defeat and disappointment, in essence (sometimes literally) saying "Fuck those trash voters that didn't support Kamala. We don't want them, they're obviously racist sexist and anti-Democracy, we have to find a way to boost turnout that isn't them." That's temporary. Democrats will return to reality, and focus on getting Clinton-Biden-Trump voters back on their side. They'll let all the nasty bitterness be lost to time, and welcome them all back as buyers-remorse or finally-came-to-their-senses voters. This is probably with a candidate that doesn't engage in censorious culture-war bullshit.

    You should also recognize that Trump's character defects and wrong-headed ideas cost him a winnable 2020 election just four years ago. He'll do it again. People in their late 70s/soon-to-be early 80s very rarely change.
    Disagree with the last part. He has some serious people helping him stay focused this time (Susie Wiles namely). And the electorate has really shown that they're not interested in punishing MAGA/GOP, especially if things go even halfway ok. They remember 2017-2019, and then govt overreach that came after COVID swept Dems into power.

    I think you are underestimating how toxic the Dem brand is right now. And JD Vance has already rehabbed his image nicely (just look at his favorable ratings now). I think it's Vance's eight years to lose after this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by En Sabah Nur View Post
    Ah, are we absolving voters of having voted for all of the bold? Far too many seem to want that.
    Keep pushing this line of reasoning. Lots of JD Vance voters willing to reward it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doomcookie View Post
    American voters as a whole are pretty damn ignorant. And let's be honest, most people are plain trash.
    This is not a winning message, at all.

  10. #92770
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    This is not a winning message, at all.
    People don't like hearing the truth but the truth is the truth, even if it's not a winning message.

  11. #92771
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    Nah, they'll privatize everything they can, and you can drive on the Space-X Turnpike from Elonstan to your job at the Tesla Factory. Payday is on Friday, in Dogecoins.
    And the coins can only be used at Amazon.

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  12. #92772
    The Lightbringer tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Disagree with the last part. He has some serious people helping him stay focused this time (Susie Wiles namely).
    If I had some guarantee that Susan Wiles would be chief of staff for four years, I'd be a lot more optimistic. But Trump gives me no reason to think that this admin would be noticeably different in staff changeover compared to last admin: Reince Priebus, John F. Kelly, Mick Mulvaney, and Mark Meadows.

    Again, most everybody I liked that Trump hired last time he was president quit or were fired.

    And the electorate has really shown that they're not interested in punishing MAGA/GOP, especially if things go even halfway ok. They remember 2017-2019, and then govt overreach that came after COVID swept Dems into power.
    The things I am watching are tariffs, "congressional fights/Republican infighting" writ large, and wackos like RFK Jr. Tariffs I expect will be destructive, and their consequences will hurt Republicans in 2028. RINOs and Trump's leadership are both lacking, and I do expect infighting to be worsened by Trump and his legislative pushes to be stalled frequently. RFK Jr endorsed Trump expecting some reward in his administration, but every appointment I think he wants and might take would be destructive to Trump. The man's crazy. Trump circles have equally crazy people. For those reasons I think things will not go "halfway ok" (and I'm stating this in an absolute sense, not relative to what I expect Kamala would be doing if she were elected)

    I think you are underestimating how toxic the Dem brand is right now. And JD Vance has already rehabbed his image nicely (just look at his favorable ratings now). I think it's Vance's eight years to lose after this.
    Oh they're toxic as fuck right now. I think they have 2 years until midterms to rehabilitate their image for midterm elections, and 4 years until the next presidential election to do the same there. Even though people are whispering around cultural issues and the politics of censoring open debate today, the Democratic party is smart enough to radically change their messaging behind the scenes to deploy in the next round. I don't underestimate current toxicity, I prognosticate future amelioration. Not that the far left will like it, but some of them do like winning elections as opposed to securing the moral high ground.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  13. #92773
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    It's going to take decades to fix the upcoming clusterfuck.
    The saving grace is that, if they do shit like cancel Social Security and Medicare, "fixing" the clusterfuck could easily mean doing the job right for once, rather than just propping up the old shitshow.

    This is the basis of the argument behind accelerationism; if the country tanks itself into the ground, you can build it back up and do it "right" the next time. I'm not endorsing that, because this could be like the French Revolution and having to get through the Terror again before we get to stability, and the price is fuckin' high for that, but that may be out of everyone's hands at this point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    This is not a winning message, at all.
    The American people rejecting the truth because it's "not a winning message" is a condemnation of the American people, not a criticism of the truth.


  14. #92774
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Disagree with the last part. He has some serious people helping him stay focused this time (Susie Wiles namely). And the electorate has really shown that they're not interested in punishing MAGA/GOP, especially if things go even halfway ok. They remember 2017-2019, and then govt overreach that came after COVID swept Dems into power.

    I think you are underestimating how toxic the Dem brand is right now. And JD Vance has already rehabbed his image nicely (just look at his favorable ratings now). I think it's Vance's eight years to lose after this.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Keep pushing this line of reasoning. Lots of JD Vance voters willing to reward it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is not a winning message, at all.
    You spent years shilling for a rapist.

    Let's go ahead and think on that. I don't really care if you think it's a winning message, but it's what happened. And, you still won't explain why. You have consistently whined about Democrats, while lying, and pretending to not be a Trump supporter. Yet, you refuse to explain why you think being a rapist is better than being a Democrat.

  15. #92775
    The Lightbringer Clone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The saving grace is that, if they do shit like cancel Social Security and Medicare, "fixing" the clusterfuck could easily mean doing the job right for once, rather than just propping up the old shitshow.

    This is the basis of the argument behind accelerationism; if the country tanks itself into the ground, you can build it back up and do it "right" the next time. I'm not endorsing that, because this could be like the French Revolution and having to get through the Terror again before we get to stability, and the price is fuckin' high for that, but that may be out of everyone's hands at this point.
    It's also a way for people to hopefully learn the consequences of their vote. Either that or, as callous as it sounds, cull his voting base.
    Last edited by Clone; 2024-11-13 at 08:14 PM.

  16. #92776
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    If I had some guarantee that Susan Wiles would be chief of staff for four years, I'd be a lot more optimistic. But Trump gives me no reason to think that this admin would be noticeably different in staff changeover compared to last admin: Reince Priebus, John F. Kelly, Mick Mulvaney, and Mark Meadows.

    Again, most everybody I liked that Trump hired last time he was president quit or were fired.

    The things I am watching are tariffs, "congressional fights/Republican infighting" writ large, and wackos like RFK Jr. Tariffs I expect will be destructive, and their consequences will hurt Republicans in 2028. RINOs and Trump's leadership are both lacking, and I do expect infighting to be worsened by Trump and his legislative pushes to be stalled frequently. RFK Jr endorsed Trump expecting some reward in his administration, but every appointment I think he wants and might take would be destructive to Trump. The man's crazy. Trump circles have equally crazy people. For those reasons I think things will not go "halfway ok" (and I'm stating this in an absolute sense, not relative to what I expect Kamala would be doing if she were elected)

    Oh they're toxic as fuck right now. I think they have 2 years until midterms to rehabilitate their image for midterm elections, and 4 years until the next presidential election to do the same there. Even though people are whispering around cultural issues and the politics of censoring open debate today, the Democratic party is smart enough to radically change their messaging behind the scenes to deploy in the next round. I don't underestimate current toxicity, I prognosticate future amelioration. Not that the far left will like it, but some of them do like winning elections as opposed to securing the moral high ground.
    You had years to condemn Trump for his antics, yet refused to do so.

    The last thing any Trump supporter should do, is talk about others being "toxic as fuck." When you are called on it, you tried to play the victim. No, not Trump's victims. You don't give a shit about them.

  17. #92777
    Quote Originally Posted by Doomcookie View Post
    You spent years shilling for a rapist.

    Let's go ahead and think on that. I don't really care if you think it's a winning message, but it's what happened. And, you still won't explain why. You have consistently whined about Democrats, while lying, and pretending to not be a Trump supporter. Yet, you refuse to explain why you think being a rapist is better than being a Democrat.
    I have not voted for president the last two cycles.

    But I would be open to JD Vance in 2028. Would love for the Dems to make me a compelling offer too. Competition is great.

  18. #92778
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by En Sabah Nur View Post
    Ah, are we absolving voters of having voted for all of the bold? Far too many seem to want that.
    As well they do. Worse, people couldn’t even be convinced on an argument of just not that.

    It worked for Biden, but you can’t run on that ticket forever.

  19. #92779
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    I have not voted for president the last two cycles.

    But I would be open to JD Vance in 2028. Would love for the Dems to make me a compelling offer too. Competition is great.
    Oh, I already provided that which showed your support for Trump. There's no need to keep up the ruse.

    You keep trying to put the mask on, when everyone knows what you look like. Let's not pretend you will do anything else, but support whoever the GOP nominee is, by showing so much "concern" for whatever the Dems do, while hiding when talk of your support of a rapist, or his attempt to overthrow the government pops up. Those things never concerned you in the slightest, you were always going to have his back.

  20. #92780
    Comparing Reagan with 525 electors and +18,2% of the popular vote to Trump with 312 and +2% when Biden had 306 and +4,5% and Obama had 365, +7,5% and a filibuster-proof trifecta is WILD.

    Trump won and he won solidly. But it was no landslide and no blowout.

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