Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

**Xyonai** · 2024-11-14, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by Malkiah

it's kind of amazing, because historically when authoritarians utilized a military to enforce their schemes, there was at least the excuse that living conditions were horrible enough that they could say to the military "follow along with this and it will end in you having riches and better lives".
you can see that pattern play out in everything from the romans to the crusades to the nazis to iraq: dictators using the promise (and to be begrudgingly fair often the delivery) of a materially improved condition in exchange for following orders.

i don't really see how life for even the bottom tier of US citizenry has gotten catastrophic enough for that to be a viable means of coercion, but maybe i'm just ignorant of how bad things really are for the bottom wrung of society.
i've figured that sure all the mechanisms of political power on a bureaucratic level would go along with whatever trump wants, because whatever trump wants doesn't really impact them negatively at all, but i also figured that the US military wouldn't go along with enforcing any kind of authoritarian nonsense.

we go the route of installing generals all willy-nilly like other countries such as russia or israel do (just the most prominent modern day example of military cronyism that popped into my head, not any sort of comparison ideologically or any kind of statement about israel more broadly) and that could significantly change the calculus if the rank-and-file soldiers also go along with it.

For as tired as the comparison is, given the last ten years of politics, I'd say Russia's the best example of the type of Government Trump wants. Goons and Kissasses in state positions, Generals who's only qualifications are loyalty, an utter disregard for the populice writ-large beyond weaponizing support against opposition.

Though Russians have a history of being browbeaten and stepped on by their government for so long, through a few different incarnations, that they kinda just... go with it. Americans, while getting gradually more politically apathetic, aren't really as push-overy at this point? I think Trump's aspirations are more outward, then downward. He wants a military who'll be on board with his inane foreign policy decisions.

**Malkiah** · 2024-11-14, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by Xyonai

For as tired as the comparison is, given the last ten years of politics, I'd say Russia's the best example of the type of Government Trump wants. Goons and Kissasses in state positions, Generals who's only qualifications are loyalty, an utter disregard for the populice writ-large beyond weaponizing support against opposition.

Though Russians have a history of being browbeaten and stepped on by their government for so long, through a few different incarnations, that they kinda just... go with it. Americans, while getting gradually more politically apathetic, aren't really as push-overy at this point? I think Trump's aspirations are more outward, then downward. He wants a military who'll be on board with his inane foreign policy decisions.

yeah it's weird, you look at the history of western civilization and you see all these patterns repeating and there's all these lessons about human nature and structures of governance, but the US is kind of uniquely positioned in such a way to buck a lot of that and come through it in unpredictable ways.

it's kind of surprising to think there's never been a military coup or hostile takeover of the reigns of government (i mean other than the civil war obviously but that was more complicated than just an attempt to overthrow the established government and continue on with new deck chairs) so we don't have any real historical data about how american society tends to react to radical exertions of power in authoritarian directions.

the fact that most other examples in history are of a populace just kinda rolling over and taking it isn't very reassuring though, is it?

**Xyonai** · 2024-11-14, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Malkiah

yeah it's weird, you look at the history of western civilization and you see all these patterns repeating and there's all these lessons about human nature and structures of governance, but the US is kind of uniquely positioned in such a way to buck a lot of that and come through it in unpredictable ways.

it's kind of surprising to think there's never been a military coup or hostile takeover of the reigns of government (i mean other than the civil war obviously but that was more complicated than just an attempt to overthrow the established government and continue on with new deck chairs) so we don't have any real historical data about how american society tends to react to radical exertions of power in authoritarian directions.

the fact that most other examples in history are of a populace just kinda rolling over and taking it isn't very reassuring though, is it?

A lot of Americans are so tied down to creature comforts that they won't compromise them for anything (You can see the results of this election, honestly. As a bunch of dissatisfied Americans, annoyed that their daily comforts got fucked with, voted out the party in power from the presidency.)

So if Trump is -smart-, he'll just... go with what he's doing. Keep his fuckery to the highest levels and fuck around just enough that most people won't feel the effects until they're already in motion. It's not that hard, the GOP's been doing it with nonsense tax cuts and welfare slashing for decades.

But Trump's not smart, and his sycophants have been slavering at the chance to enact their own petty vengeances or grifts that they'll probably get started as soon as possible. Whether or not it'll be enough to disquiet the median American voter remains to be seen.

**Belize** · 2024-11-14, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by Breccia

If anyone's waiting to start WW3, this would be the time. Trump is intentionally leaving the US defenseless.

Canada's chance to strike. Half the country would welcome them with open arms tbh

**Poopymonster** · 2024-11-14, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by Belize

Canada's chance to strike. Half the country would welcome them with open arms tbh

I, for one, would welcome our maple syrup scented mooseback overlords.

**Captain N** · 2024-11-14, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by Belize

Canada's chance to strike. Half the country would welcome them with open arms tbh

Would they invade us, say "Sorry", and then give us some of that sweet sweet Universal Healthcare?

**draynay** · 2024-11-14, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by Belize

Canada's chance to strike. Half the country would welcome them with open arms tbh

I surrender if they keep the poutine away.

**Belize** · 2024-11-14, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by draynay

I surrender if they keep the poutine away.

All will be made to eat poutine once a week until morale improves

**PhaelixWW** · 2024-11-14, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by Belize

All will be made to eat poutine once a week until morale improves

That is what we call a win/win.

**Sorshen** · 2024-11-14, 03:38 AM

Do congress republicans realize the Five Eyes intel community is basically over if Tulsi is confirmed as DNI? I have my fair share of criticism against FVEY, but it's leaving the west exposed to more Kremlin bs.

**Jastall** · 2024-11-14, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by draynay

I surrender if they keep the poutine away.

Fine by me, anyone who rejects proper poutine is unworthy of it anyway.

**Gabriel** · 2024-11-14, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by Belize

All will be made to eat poutine once a week until morale improves

Warcrimes.

**Nymrohd** · 2024-11-14, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by Sorshen

Do congress republicans realize the Five Eyes intel community is basically over if Tulsi is confirmed as DNI? I have my fair share of criticism against FYEY, but it's leaving the west exposed to more Kremlin bs.

I would assume that anything will need to be curated before shared with the US the moment Trump is in office because of Trump himself. Tulsi is just the icing on the cake.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Jastall

Fine by me, anyone who rejects proper poutine is unworthy of it anyway.

Unworthy of what, obesity?

**Flarelaine** · 2024-11-14, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Xyonai

A lot of Americans are so tied down to creature comforts that they won't compromise them for anything (You can see the results of this election, honestly. As a bunch of dissatisfied Americans, annoyed that their daily comforts got fucked with, voted out the party in power from the presidency.)

Compounded by the other bunch who could not be bothered to vote. Because I'm quite sure that while there are millions who did not vote for lack of a candidate they found acceptable, there are also millions who did not vote as they would have had to get off their couch.

**Nymrohd** · 2024-11-14, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Flarelaine

Compounded by the other bunch who could not be bothered to vote. Because I'm quite sure that while there are millions who did not vote for lack of a candidate they found acceptable, there are also millions who did not vote as they would have had to get off their couch.

I always think that any political system that actually cares about Democracy (and I am not sure the US one does) should be very invested in keeping turnout high. Low 60s is poor though not abysmal (there are democracies that routinely get BELOW 60s). Democrats seem to be focused on improving voter access which certainly is important in the US given voter suppression efforts. But I don't really see them trying to diagnose or attempt to involve the part of the electorate that easily outnumbers the base of either party and simply does not show up to vote at all. It is CRAZY to me that after so many years election day has not become a federal holiday or just moved to a Sunday so I am not sure how hard they are trying there anyway.

Personally I believe that voting should be compulsory and come with a fine for not voting (that adjusts to your income ofc but still hurts). Australia has that and their turnout is crazy (in the 90s). Several EU countries manage high 70s/low 80s. You can always vote blank.

For reference
https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...out-by-country
but even that is less effective since for many countries the last election they record was the post-pandemic one and those all had higher turnout I think.

**Elenos** · 2024-11-14, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Nymrohd

Personally I believe that voting should be compulsory and come with a fine for not voting (that adjusts to your income ofc but still hurts). Australia has that and their turnout is crazy (in the 90s). Several EU countries manage high 70s/low 80s. You can always vote blank.

The election had at least a 65% turnout on a national level and that's keeping in mind that there's a lot of states where voters know that one party or the other will win for certain like CA or TX.

The states which actually decided the election had a turnout of at the worst 70%, with states like Florida and Pennsylvania close if not above 80% turnout. When Trump wins Florida by over 13% with close to a 80% turnout voter suppression means squat.

The tired argument of voter suppression and low turnout was relevant back in 2014 ( which had something like 36% turnout ), it sure as hell isn't relevant in 2024. Hell I'd even make an argument that if turnout was 90%+ Trump may have done better than he actually did. Because a lot of people DO despise him on a personal level but they despise the last 4 years of economic policy far more.

Sure the turnout in the US wasn't as good as Germany, you have to give it them on the efficiency level, but was similar to the recent French election, higher by almost double digits compared to the UK and a few % higher than Italy.

I despise Trump for being a sore loser back in 2020, extremely so, it's no better if anyone that voted or agrees with dems tries to play that card here.

**PhaelixWW** · 2024-11-14, 11:36 AM