Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Mayhem]

This still can't be held in good faith. Republicans didn't suddenly get a lot better at preying on poor, innocent voters in 2024, which didn't happen in 2016 (The demographic under consideration went 12 points for Hillary in 2016).

Democrats won't win them back if their attitude remains to excoriate them for spending four straight elections in their camp, and the fifth crossing over.

What I'm reading suggests to me that people think Trump won these people in 2016, instead of losing them by 12 points. Something "chronic" wouldn't materialize in 2 years after having been absent for 12. But maybe these responses should be understood to mean that the writer doesn't actually know what's the cause.

You're right, nothing happened between 2016 and 2024. We didn't find out about how social media pushes right-wing narratives and a billionaire didn't buy a social media platform and turned it into a conspiracy cesspit. 2024 is basically the same as 2016, no difference, nope.

Man, sometimes I adore your ability to make sense of the world and really see things.

[SAY HER NAME]

That money could be used to fuel tax cuts for corporations, to entice companies to move to that state, and to make up the shortfall when expected revenues from having said companies in state come nowhere fucking near what they claimed but they still keep their tax incentives.
Won't you think about those poor tax cuts you monster.

Healthcare isn't a right to the GOP. It's a profit making machine.
Government isn't in the business of making a profit. It provides a service.

The funny aspect to it is that it doesnt come from the states budget but from the federal. To the state its money they recieve to cover the coverage gap. Republicans are so evil and partisan they dont want that

[Surfd]

I think the only real question is whether Democrats, and the left-wing, are being elitist by intention or elitist by accident. The real takeaway from a contingent that voted against Trump in his 2016 victory, but swung towards Trump in 2024, is what Democrats did to alienate them, and what Republicans did to win their vote.

The answer to that is stupidly easy: The Democrats didn't do anything to "alienate" them, they just didn't lie to them as hard and as shamelessly as the Republicans did. The Republicans won their votes by telling them whatever they wanted to hear, even if 99% of that was pure, unadulterated bullshit. And those voters stuffed their faces in that bullshit like it was a goddamned chocolate cake, because the Republicans were promising to solve all their problems with magic beans and fairy dust, while the Democrats were just boring. And that's basically it.

- - - Updated - - -

This still can't be held in good faith. Republicans didn't suddenly get a lot better at preying on poor, innocent voters in 2024, which didn't happen in 2016 (The demographic under consideration went 12 points for Hillary in 2016).

You just going to memory hole the entirety of the last 4 years or so? Ignore the fact that in 2016 the situation was completely different? Republicans got lucky this cycle because it was a Democrat administration in power with a big target painted on it's back due to 4 years of recovering from a Pandemic and Global instability. They had a literal perfectly set table of ignorant grievance to eat off of and it was trivially easy for them to point that grievance at the Dems. Without that? Without all the idiots who think that the president controls the price of gas and is secretly responsible for making their eggs cost 20 bucks each? Trump would have been steamrolled.

[Shadowferal]

Trump has tapped an unprecedented 13 billionaires for his administration

I don't even know what to add...beyond this;

[PhaelixWW]

Trump has tapped an unprecedented 13 billionaires for his administration

MAGA: "That just means they know how to cut costs effectively!"

Narrator: No, that just means they know how to steal from the "little people" like you.

[En Sabah Nur]

Trump has tapped an unprecedented 13 billionaires for his administration

And, somehow, people will seriously think this is how they "drain the swamp."

[fwc577]

>Trump is saber rattling at Mexico, Canada, Greenland and other nations
>Nobody is taking him and his dementia seriously, just like I said


Master's thesis involved interacting with over 150 dementia patients and their families over 3 years, it's not some wikipedia paper lmao, but I'm sorry, one day you might understand the effort that goes into a master's thesis and being with someone while they're doing said master's thesis, or you might just think it's some 2 page high school paper because you've never been that high in the education system? IDK, my point still stands.

Oh, the masters thesis you wrote? Oh wait. My points still stands, Enjoy the block list, you've got nothing worthwhile to add to this conversation.

[tehdang]

The answer to that is stupidly easy: The Democrats didn't do anything to "alienate" them, they just didn't lie to them as hard and as shamelessly as the Republicans did. The Republicans won their votes by telling them whatever they wanted to hear, even if 99% of that was pure, unadulterated bullshit. And those voters stuffed their faces in that bullshit like it was a goddamned chocolate cake, because the Republicans were promising to solve all their problems with magic beans and fairy dust, while the Democrats were just boring. And that's basically it.

How was this different from the past? Were Republicans less full of bullshit in 2016? In 2020? Was that demographic much less tolerant of bullshit in 2012? 2016? 2020?

You just going to memory hole the entirety of the last 4 years or so? Ignore the fact that in 2016 the situation was completely different? Republicans got lucky this cycle because it was a Democrat administration in power with a big target painted on it's back due to 4 years of recovering from a Pandemic and Global instability. They had a literal perfectly set table of ignorant grievance to eat off of and it was trivially easy for them to point that grievance at the Dems. Without that? Without all the idiots who think that the president controls the price of gas and is secretly responsible for making their eggs cost 20 bucks each? Trump would have been steamrolled.

I rather assumed that you'd prefer a better explanation than "Trump got lucky in 2024." Especially since you can use the same logic to say "Biden got lucky in 2020. He wasn't an incumbent during a pandemic. Trump had a big target painted on his back..." If you're already yielding that this demographic is preternaturally vulnerable to bullshit, then I think the first suggestion is that Biden rode that high in 2020 by promising better government, projecting American calm and diplomacy worldwide. Then he couldn't sustain that bullshit "transitory inflation" which lasted, a disastrous Afghanistan pullout that cost American lives, and a weak and feeble foreign policy that was anything but calm and competent.

You've made for yourself a whole host of problems, but at least you did point to something temporal about why Democrats won this contingent for so long before dramatically losing them. While not satisfactory to me, it doesn't fall apart on its own contradictions!

[SAY HER NAME]

There is something to be said about the party of the elites and billionaires winning over the working class by blatantly lying and pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into politics. The contradictions are thick.

[Endus]

How was this different from the past? Were Republicans less full of bullshit in 2016? In 2020? Was that demographic much less tolerant of bullshit in 2012? 2016? 2020?

Republican propaganda efforts continue to step up. Surprising no one.

I rather assumed that you'd prefer a better explanation than "Trump got lucky in 2024." Especially, since you can use the same logic to say "Biden got lucky in 2020. He wasn't an incumbent during a pandemic. Trump had a big target painted on his back..." If you're already yielding that this demographic is preternaturally vulnerable to bullshit, then I think the first suggestion is that Biden rode that high in 2020 by promising better government, projecting American calm and diplomacy worldwide. Then he couldn't sustain that bullshit "transitory inflation" which lasted

That's a lie.


https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ate-in-the-us/

It spiked up, and came back down. That's what "transitory" means.

Biden was also clear in the same comment you're lying about here that unchecked inflation over the long term could be a problem. And he managed to put checks on that, as he had expressed he hoped he'd be able to. You're literally pointing at a win and claiming it was a loss. You have no shame.

a disastrous Afghanistan pullout that cost American lives

Trump's the one who negotiated the withdrawal with the Taliban, you ridiculous parody of a human being. Biden pushed the deadline as much as he could to minimize the harm Trump had predicated, and was unable to pull off much in that regard because of the bind he'd been put in.

A grand total of 13 US soldiers died during the withdrawal effort. Over a year and a half, give or take. That's not really a lot. The USA was averaging about 120 military casualties a year in the region. It was a war zone.

Afghanistan's disastrous withdrawal is to be blamed on Trump, not Biden.

and a weak and feeble foreign policy that was anything but calm and competent.

By comparison to Trump? Yeah, no. Again, just another lie.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2...gs-than-trump/
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2...gely-positive/

Biden consistently scores higher than Trump in international approval ratings, as has the USA under his Presidency.

When you can't cope with reality, just make shit up, eh?

This is why Republicans did better. It takes longer to debunk absolute horseshit like you're pushing here than it takes to just open your mouth and let the shit fall out of it, as you do. It's a firehose of bullshit, and many Americans are largely trained (can't say "educated") to just believe what they're told as long as it supports their prejudices.

[Rasulis]

The answer to that is stupidly easy: The Democrats didn't do anything to "alienate" them, they just didn't lie to them as hard and as shamelessly as the Republicans did. The Republicans won their votes by telling them whatever they wanted to hear, even if 99% of that was pure, unadulterated bullshit. And those voters stuffed their faces in that bullshit like it was a goddamned chocolate cake, because the Republicans were promising to solve all their problems with magic beans and fairy dust, while the Democrats were just boring. And that's basically it.

- - - Updated - - -


You just going to memory hole the entirety of the last 4 years or so? Ignore the fact that in 2016 the situation was completely different? Republicans got lucky this cycle because it was a Democrat administration in power with a big target painted on it's back due to 4 years of recovering from a Pandemic and Global instability. They had a literal perfectly set table of ignorant grievance to eat off of and it was trivially easy for them to point that grievance at the Dems. Without that? Without all the idiots who think that the president controls the price of gas and is secretly responsible for making their eggs cost 20 bucks each? Trump would have been steamrolled.

Democrats' problem this election was that the majority of US voters equate consumerism to right. I blame Reagan for starting all that.

Yuppies in the 80s.

Hummer in the 90s where 15 years earlier people were standing in line for gasoline.

Then it got really bad with the arrival of social media.

Lifestyle braggadocio and algorithms fine-tuned to serve scarily relevant ads arrived.

Then we hit bottom. A man who named a gold-tinged tower after himself and wrote books with titles such as "The Art of the Deal" and "How to Get Rich" became our president.

Twice.

I hope we hit bottom.

[tehdang]

There is something to be said about the party of the elites and billionaires winning over the working class by blatantly lying and pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into politics. The contradictions are thick.

You’ll get a mixed bag here. Which candidate got so many elite and billionaire endorsements in her campaign. Who did Beyoncé support? Who did Taylor Swift? Can you even list Kamala’s billionaire and elite supporters that fired off endorsements on the campaign trail?

Kamala raised a billion dollars in three months. She deserves a little more respect in the contest of which candidate or party is elites and billionaires. Or maybe, tell me how the party of the working class can lose the working class, and remain the party of the working class. If I blindfolded you and didn’t tell you party nor candidate, but told you how those with masters and PhDs, and those earning higher incomes voted, could you reach a conclusion?

[Edge-]

You’ll get a mixed bag here. Which candidate got so many elite and billionaire endorsements in her campaign. Who did Beyoncé support? Who did Taylor Swift? Can you even list Kamala’s billionaire and elite supporters that fired off endorsements on the campaign trail?

I'll note: Not all billionaires are equal, nor was their support equal. Endorsements aren't actually worth much. Those donors dumping tens/hundreds of millions into PACs (See Elon's $250M+ in political spending on behalf of Donald), in particular are definitely looking to get a lot out

Nobody is out here defending the corrupting influence of money in politics, but I'll note Democrats did try to make headway on that issue via campaign finance reform back in 2020 and Republicans were unified in their opposition to the idea.

Kamala raised a billion dollars in three months. She deserves a little more respect in the contest of which candidate or party is elites and billionaires.

An immense amount pulled in via small-dollar donations. Donald was far more reliant on his billionaire donors, including their PACs, than Kamala was on moneyed billionaires backing the Democratic party. Don't erase the grassroots fundraising success of the Democrats just because they also succeeded with billionaires as well.

Or maybe, tell me how the party of the working class can lose the working class, and remain the party of the working class. If I blindfolded you and didn’t tell you party nor candidate, but told you how those with masters and PhDs, and those earning higher incomes voted, could you reach a conclusion?

This has been answered a few times in this thread, but I'll answer again since it appears you've forgotten - relentless propaganda campaigns and big dollar misinformation campaigns, including from owner of Freeze Peach Paradise formerly known as Twitter.

The average American voter is not very engaged. Not very politically savvy. Not very critical in thought. Not very informed. And is generally very gullible. Multiple elections have born this out.

- - - Updated - - -

Then we hit bottom. A man who named a gold-tinged tower after himself and wrote books with titles such as "The Art of the Deal" and "How to Get Rich" became our president.

ghost-wrote*

[Mayhem]

tehdang provides excellent examples of how Republicans got people to vote for them. Make shit up, lie, confuse facts, and ignore everything they have no answer to.

[Gorsameth]

You’ll get a mixed bag here. Which candidate got so many elite and billionaire endorsements in her campaign. Who did Beyoncé support? Who did Taylor Swift? Can you even list Kamala’s billionaire and elite supporters that fired off endorsements on the campaign trail?

Kamala raised a billion dollars in three months. She deserves a little more respect in the contest of which candidate or party is elites and billionaires. Or maybe, tell me how the party of the working class can lose the working class, and remain the party of the working class. If I blindfolded you and didn’t tell you party nor candidate, but told you how those with masters and PhDs, and those earning higher incomes voted, could you reach a conclusion?

Your talking about endorsements and donations.

Everyone else is talking about administrative positions.

Harris wasn't going to give a government job to Beyonce.

[SAY HER NAME]

You’ll get a mixed bag here. Which candidate got so many elite and billionaire endorsements in her campaign. Who did Beyoncé support? Who did Taylor Swift? Can you even list Kamala’s billionaire and elite supporters that fired off endorsements on the campaign trail?

Kamala raised a billion dollars in three months. She deserves a little more respect in the contest of which candidate or party is elites and billionaires. Or maybe, tell me how the party of the working class can lose the working class, and remain the party of the working class. If I blindfolded you and didn’t tell you party nor candidate, but told you how those with masters and PhDs, and those earning higher incomes voted, could you reach a conclusion?

Not much to add on my end.

[Edge-]

Stop pointing out that the incoming administration is the most wealthy, out of touch administration this nation has ever seen, filled with some of the least qualified people to hold those positions!

Republicans and other Americans voting a far more explicit and transparent oligarchy is pretty fun, IMO.

[SAY HER NAME]

Stop pointing out that the incoming administration is the most wealthy, out of touch administration this nation has ever seen, filled with some of the least qualified people to hold those positions!

Republicans and other Americans voting a far more explicit and transparent oligarchy is pretty fun, IMO.

Elon Musk making explicit threats that he will fund primaries against people that oppose his political interests is very fun

Billionaires threatening politicians that if they dont do as they want they will fund the opposition. It doesnt get more billionaire party than that.

[Odinfrost]

Not much to add on my end.

How many of these have conflict of interest?
I know Feinberg does

[Mayhem]

How many of these have conflict of interest?
I know Feinberg does

All of them and multiple conflicts of interest.