Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Mayhem]

Its going to be fun to see Trump and the Republican party justify his failure to materialize the many campaign promises he made. Its like how a wall would be built and mexico would pay for it, to a fence in specific places and entirely paid by the US and now its basically become a symbol for border control not something that is phyisical.

The Ukraine thing always struck me as a weird thing to campaign on with such confidence bc there isnt even a consensus among the Republican party about it.

So considering his first term and all the shit he promised that never happened, do you have examples of the fun justifications the republican party came up with?

As far as I can remember they denied, deflected and blamed others but never actually justified any failures.

[diller]

About the Greenland "issue"

The Danish PM have had a frank talk with Trump (45 mins) and at least the sanctions part is very much on the table.

Today the Danish government have had a closed meeting with the CEOs of the biggest companies and Business organization representatives. (most of the biggest companies will not be hit though since they also produce in the US)

I can't fathom that this is the reality we now live in!!!

EDIT: Maybe we should stop selling Wegovy/Ozempic to America as a retaliation.

[Draco-Onis]

About the Greenland "issue"

The Danish PM have had a frank talk with Trump (45 mins) and at least the sanctions part is very much on the table.

Today the Danish government have had a closed meeting with the CEOs of the biggest companies and Business organization representatives. (most of the biggest companies will not be hit though since they also produce in the US)

I can't fathom that this is the reality we now live in!!!

EDIT: Maybe we should stop selling Wegovy/Ozempic to America as a retaliation.

For your own sanity I suggest you only get suprised by good / sane news from the US for the next 4 years at least. For example if you hear that Trump has shot his entire cabinet or showing up to the G7 naked that's the new normal. Trump having a meeting with a world leader and being cordial that's abnormal, think of the US like you do of North Korea.

[Flarelaine]

Like, this is so basic that I don't for one hot second believe anyone bitching about it actually believes their own schtick.

You don't plan around handling 100-year+ events. That would mean over-spending the rest of the time, building capacity that might be used, on average, once a century or so. It's the same for hurricanes, it's the same for floods, it's the same for tornadoes, etc. You plan for regular events, maybe up to decadal strengths. Beyond that, and the over-investment becomes impossible to politically justify.

While the principle is sound, your mileage may vary over what expense is politically justifiable. As an example, Hungary builds and maintains levees for once-in-100-years floods. Of course, we do have a lot of flat land scarcely above regular river levels.

[gondrin]

About the Greenland "issue"

The Danish PM have had a frank talk with Trump (45 mins) and at least the sanctions part is very much on the table.

Today the Danish government have had a closed meeting with the CEOs of the biggest companies and Business organization representatives. (most of the biggest companies will not be hit though since they also produce in the US)

I can't fathom that this is the reality we now live in!!!

EDIT: Maybe we should stop selling Wegovy/Ozempic to America as a retaliation.

Sanctions or tariffs? Because one means they will economically punish anyone who trades with the target country and the other means that companies will pay more to import their goods into a country.

[Gorsameth]

While the principle is sound, your mileage may vary over what expense is politically justifiable. As an example, Hungary builds and maintains levees for once-in-100-years floods. Of course, we do have a lot of flat land scarcely above regular river levels.

The Dutch Deltaworks were build on the basis of protecting the main coastal area's from a once in 10.000 year storm. (4.000 for the rural coastal regions and 2.000 for the islands in front of the coast).

the notion that its not worth protecting against a once in 100 year event just shows the value Americans place on lives.

[diller]

Sanctions or tariffs? Because one means they will economically punish anyone who trades with the target country and the other means that companies will pay more to import their goods into a country.

I don't think the specifics are known. (I don't Trump knows at this point he just knows he wants people to suffer)

I know tariffs is mostly considered a joke because most people don't understand how they work - and in many cases it just results in increased price for the consumer and has no effect on the country you are trying to punish. However this is only really the case where there isn't much competition for the particular product (like much of the stuff from Canada/Mexico), if it is a product in a very competitive area it will actually hurt the producer from the tariffed country since they will have to lower their price to remain competitive.

[gondrin]

The Dutch Deltaworks were build on the basis of protecting the main coastal area's from a once in 10.000 year storm. (4.000 for the rural coastal regions and 2.000 for the islands in front of the coast).

the notion that its not worth protecting against a once in 100 year event just shows the value Americans place on lives.

I am going to ask you the same thing I asked a person above.

How can you prepare for an event that pretty much cannot be predicted? One that gets its fuel from strong winds and dry conditions. Do you just install sprinklers everywhere in the event that it may happen? What about maintenance for that infrastructure? How about a source of water for that infrastructure? How do you prevent things from getting too dry that it becomes a fire hazard?

How do you prevent someone from setting fire, either intentionally or purposefully, where then the wind takes an ember and starts a massive fire? Seeing as fire can pretty much get out of control in seconds.

So tell me, how do you prepare an area, that is pretty much dozens to hundreds of miles in size, from catching on fire from those things? What about a freak lightning strike when it gets too dry out as those do happen? How do you prevent this from being a thing?

Because fire cannot be predicted unless it is purposefully done. And if the winds change, so do the direction of said fire. And with it being arid there, those embers that come from said fire can spread fairly quickly and cause other fires.

Question, do you have a freak flood that happens where there is no water? Because, at least with a flood, you can basically floodproof an area because you will know where the water comes from.

[Rasulis]

I am going to ask you the same thing I asked a person above.

How can you prepare for an event that pretty much cannot be predicted? One that gets its fuel from strong winds and dry conditions. Do you just install sprinklers everywhere in the event that it may happen? What about maintenance for that infrastructure? How about a source of water for that infrastructure? How do you prevent things from getting too dry that it becomes a fire hazard?

How do you prevent someone from setting fire, either intentionally or purposefully, where then the wind takes an ember and starts a massive fire? Seeing as fire can pretty much get out of control in seconds.

So tell me, how do you prepare an area, that is pretty much dozens to hundreds of miles in size, from catching on fire from those things? What about a freak lightning strike when it gets too dry out as those do happen? How do you prevent this from being a thing?

Because fire cannot be predicted unless it is purposefully done. And if the winds change, so do the direction of said fire. And with it being arid there, those embers that come from said fire can spread fairly quickly and cause other fires.

Question, do you have a freak flood that happens where there is no water? Because, at least with a flood, you can basically floodproof an area because you will know where the water comes from.

Lots and lots of firefighters. If I recall correctly, currently they have over 5,000 fire fighters combating the Palisade fire and another 3,000 on Eaton fire (the one that burned down Altadena.) Fortunately, if you can call it that, there are no other major wildfires anywhere else. Firefighters from all over California, US, Canada and Mexico are now on the ground in LA. Giving LAFD personnel a break from fighting fire on 24 hr/48 hr shifts.

Lots of airplanes from Cal Fire, US Forest Service, National Guard and Canada. Around 60 airplanes from Cal Fire, eight military C-130s, several super scoopers from Quebec (cool looking airplanes), and many more.

Some luck. The second Santa Ana wind event had wind gust of 40 - 60 mph instead of 100 mph.

The wind was the main culprit for the fires getting out of control. The Palisade fire started at the same location another fire from illegal firework happened on New Year's Eve. The helicopters were able to contain that fire quickly. When the Palisade fire was detected, the 100-mph wind gust kept the fleet grounded and the fire went out of control.

California has the best early ignition detection system and fire behavior prediction and modeling. Unfortunately, because of the difficult terrain, the State has become very dependent on their Aerial Firefighting fleet (largest in the world) which could even fly at night. Unfortunately, when the fleet is grounded, they are in trouble.

[Bwgmon]

I don't think the specifics are known. (I don't Trump knows at this point he just knows he wants people to suffer)

I know tariffs is mostly considered a joke because most people don't understand how they work - and in many cases it just results in increased price for the consumer and has no effect on the country you are trying to punish. However this is only really the case where there isn't much competition for the particular product (like much of the stuff from Canada/Mexico), if it is a product in a very competitive area it will actually hurt the producer from the tariffed country since they will have to lower their price to remain competitive.

I feel like that's being optimistic. Given the way businesses seem to be run nowadays, I feel it's more likely that if, say, Cookie Brand A and B aren't affected by any tariff while Cookie Brand C is, brand A and B are more likely to agree to increase their price to match C because "holding out" and trying to force C to remain low would effectively be leaving money on the table, which would cut into their short-term profits, which I understand is tantamount to desecration for major companies.

[gondrin]

Lots and lots of firefighters. If I recall correctly, currently they have over 5,000 fire fighters combating the Palisade fire and another 3,000 on Eaton fire (the one that burned down Altadena.) Fortunately, if you can call it that, there are no other major wildfires anywhere else. Firefighters from all over California, US, Canada and Mexico are now on the ground in LA. Giving LAFD personnel a break from fighting fire on 24 hr/48 hr shifts.

Lots of airplanes from Cal Fire, US Forest Service, National Guard and Canada. Around 60 airplanes from Cal Fire, eight military C-130s, several super scoopers from Quebec (cool looking airplanes), and many more.

Some luck. The second Santa Ana wind event had wind gust of 40 - 60 mph instead of 100 mph.

The wind was the main culprit for the fires getting out of control. The Palisade fire started at the same location another fire from illegal firework happened on New Year's Eve. The helicopters were able to contain that fire quickly. When the Palisade fire was detected, the 100-mph wind gust kept the fleet grounded and the fire went out of control.

That is the thing here. People, like the guy I quoted, are talking about pre-emptive preparation. Which is impossible for events like this.

You can pre-emptively prepare for a flood, a hurricane and the like. But tornados, fires and the like are impossible to pre-emptively prepare for. All you can do is react to it.

[Rasulis]

That is the thing here. People, like the guy I quoted, are talking about pre-emptive preparation. Which is impossible for events like this.

You can pre-emptively prepare for a flood, a hurricane and the like. But tornados, fires and the like are impossible to pre-emptively prepare for. All you can do is react to it.

I agree. I tried to show what was required to fight those fires. Also, point out that, if it wasn't for the wind, the firefighting helicopters likely could have contained the initial fire ignition quickly like they did on New Year's Eve.

Unfortunately, they couldn't fight the fire if they couldn't get to it. There is no access for the fire engines to get down into the canyon wildland. By the time they were able to fight the fire directly, it was already out of control and burning homes along the canyon ridges, and the fire hydrants were not designed to fight hundreds of fires at the same time.

Short of having the foresight to either build roads into the canyons for the fire engines or build all-terrain track-mounted fire engines, and install fire hydrants within the canyons, without aerial support, there was not much that the LAFD could have done to combat the fires.

Some mitigation measures that Los Angeles has taken. Although they were not enough in this case.

What LA did right before the fires — and why it wasn't enough

From Building Code perspective.

Rebuilding After A Wildfire? Most States Don't Require Fire-Resistant Materials

But most states don't require rebuilding with fire-resistant materials, an NPR analysis has found. While California has mandated wildfire building codes for more than a decade in high risk areas, other states have struggled to approve comprehensive rebuilding codes. In Oregon and Colorado, efforts faced stiff and ultimately successful opposition from home builders associations.

We learned about this when we built our Mt. Laguna home in 2012.

NPR interview with Lori Moore-Merrell, the U.S. Fire Administrator for the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

She described a "conflagration." Saying they're not wildland fires with trees burning. They're structure to structure fire spread.

By the time the fire got to the first building, with hurricane wind blowing embers for miles, it was already too late.

[Mayhem]

That is the thing here. People, like the guy I quoted, are talking about pre-emptive preparation. Which is impossible for events like this.

You can pre-emptively prepare for a flood, a hurricane and the like. But tornados, fires and the like are impossible to pre-emptively prepare for. All you can do is react to it.

https://wfca.com/wildfire-articles/p...and-wildfires/

"Between 2016 and 2020, electrical power networks caused 19% of the wildfires that occurred in those five years. With the growing risk of wildfires amid climate change, there is heightened concern about electrical power conductors igniting wildfires."

There is one thing you can do. Also, you don't have to reinvent the wheel, take a look at other countries with lots of forests and see what they're doing to decrease the likeliness of wildfires occurring. And if it is not possible to mitigate the risk well then people have to give up the nice places and live somewhere safer.

[Nymrohd]

I feel like that's being optimistic. Given the way businesses seem to be run nowadays, I feel it's more likely that if, say, Cookie Brand A and B aren't affected by any tariff while Cookie Brand C is, brand A and B are more likely to agree to increase their price to match C because "holding out" and trying to force C to remain low would effectively be leaving money on the table, which would cut into their short-term profits, which I understand is tantamount to desecration for major companies.

What you are describing is an oligopoly though. A competitive market would have more than three brands so collusion between everyone local would be much harder.

[Rasulis]

https://wfca.com/wildfire-articles/p...and-wildfires/

"Between 2016 and 2020, electrical power networks caused 19% of the wildfires that occurred in those five years. With the growing risk of wildfires amid climate change, there is heightened concern about electrical power conductors igniting wildfires."

There is one thing you can do. Also, you don't have to reinvent the wheel, take a look at other countries with lots of forests and see what they're doing to decrease the likeliness of wildfires occurring. And if it is not possible to mitigate the risk well then people have to give up the nice places and live somewhere safer.

CA is rapidly upgrading their power lines. I can vouch for SDG&E in San Diego because we work with SDG&E. Not really sure about LA.

I am looking at other countries with lots of forests. Which country are you thinking of? Brazil? Russia? Canada? Australia? Sweden? Italy? Britain? China? All of them have had out of control major wildfire outbreaks in the last decade.


Austin Firefighters Association President Bob Nicks has a stark warning for Austin leaders and residents: What you’re seeing play out in Los Angeles, is not out of the question for our city.

Nicks said the “dirty little secret” about fighting fires like the ones in LA right now, is that once they get to a certain size, you can’t stop them.

“You don’t have enough water or resources to stop the head of that fire. It’s going to be spewing embers a mile or more ahead burning areas within the city,” Nicks said. “And so what you want to do is you want to have a fast response with capable people in the right numbers, and you want fuels reduced in high-risk areas to some extent so you have a chance to keep the fire small. If you can’t keep the fire small, you’re looking at what you have in LA.”

Nicks said the Wildland-Urban Interface Code does not yet give the city enough teeth to require fuel mitigation in high-risk areas.

He also once again pointed to the fact that the city has not put a new ladder truck into service since 1995, something KXAN has reported on extensively. Those trucks are not only a piece of equipment, but also have the captains with the highest level of tactical training on them.

Seriously. LA is not a unique case. It is the first of Urban Conflagration case since the 1981 Oakland Fire. It won't be the last. The City itself is likely more prepared than most cities in the US.

[Mayhem]

CA is rapidly upgrading their power lines. I can vouch for SDG&E in San Diego because we work with SDG&E. Not really sure about LA.

I am looking at other countries with lots of forests. Which country are you thinking of? Brazil? Russia? Canada? Australia? Sweden? Italy? Britain? China? All of them have had out of control major wildfire outbreaks in the last decade.

I am not saying you can prevent each and every wildfire. It was an answer to "pre-emptive preparation is impossible".

When as is reported a faulty power line sparked the fire, then this was very much possible to prepare for or even prevent.

[Kaleredar]

What you are describing is an oligopoly though. A competitive market would have more than three brands so collusion between everyone local would be much harder.

Most foods are produced by a handful of megaconglomerates. There are other independent and small chains, but they usually can’t produce at scale as well and so naturally have higher prices. They won’t be able to “undercut” the big brands should they decide to collude, and they won’t be able to absorb the impact of tarrifs as well either.

Nor do I expect the Trump administration of all things to go after big business on… well, anything, much less collusion.

[DarkTZeratul]

Seriously. LA is not a unique case. It is the first of Urban Conflagration case since the 1981 Oakland Fire.

As someone who lived through it, it was 1991 and this is SO MUCH WORSE. The Oakland Fire was just one fire, and largely contained within about 24 hours. Though it was largely caused by the same combination of drought, hot temperatures, and high winds.

[Rasulis]

I am not saying you can prevent each and every wildfire. It was an answer to "pre-emptive preparation is impossible".

When as is reported a faulty power line sparked the fire, then this was very much possible to prepare for or even prevent.

Fair enough. The Eaton fire did start in the area beneath a high voltage tower.

[DarkTZeratul]

Fair enough. The Eaton fire did start in the area beneath a high voltage tower.

Or, to use another example, the Camp Fire that obliterated the town of Paradise in 2018 was started because of a failure in a piece of electrical equipment that hadn't been replaced for a literal century.

(You may be able to vouch for SDG&E, but PG&E can absolutely get fucked)