Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Endus]

Again, your entire argument is that coffee prices > safety of American citizens.

Still zero evidence that this makes Americans "more safe". Immigrants on average are less likely to commit violent crimes than Americans; removing undocumented immigrants isn't making anyone "more safe".

And that our economy needs to run on illegal labor to survive.

Blame the architects of that economy and that their focus has always been on using undocumented people as an exploitable labor class to replace chattel slavery, rather than punishing those who employ undocumented laborers. The market remains, encouraging laborers to sneak in and access that market. If you're not interested in addressing that, you're not interested in addressing undocumented migrants, you're just being more abusive in your exploitations.

[Flarelaine]

It's relatively new product for them. I lived in Shanghai from 2005 - 2007. If we want coffee, instant coffee was our only option. Laced heavily with sugar. Drinks like Cappucino are not widely available in China till after the 2010.

Although, while we travelled in Xinjiang (several times between 2005 and 2017), we have been served some really good fresh ground coffee.

It makes sense that Xinjiang, historically Muslim, would have a coffee culture.

[Draco-Onis]

And that our economy needs to run on illegal labor to survive.

But it does there's no way we can afford the things we have without that illegal labor force that gets paid low wages. The farm, fishing, construction among others simply do not have the money to hire Americans and some even if they pay the highest rate cannot find people. Those are facts and Americans are complaining about inflation and you are advocating for insanely higher prices.

Every reliable economists are warning that if we continue down this path we are facing a deep recession possibly a depression.

[diller]

And that our economy needs to run on illegal labor to survive.

I thought you said you weren't American!

[Endus]

But it does there's no way we can afford the things we have without that illegal labor force that gets paid low wages. The farm, fishing, construction among others simply do not have the money to hire Americans and some even if they pay the highest rate cannot find people. Those are facts and Americans are complaining about inflation and you are advocating for insanely higher prices.

Every reliable economists are warning that if we continue down this path we are facing a deep recession possibly a depression.

We can also come back to "what's the actual problem?"

If it's undocumented labor working in the USA, why isn't a blanket amnesty and fast track to citizenship an option to be considered?

And the answer is "because exploiting undocumented labor for shit wages and deporting them before you have to pay them has been a key part of American economics for well over a century". None of this is unintentional. This is how it's meant to work. The cruelty is part of the process.

[Kaleredar]

Again, your entire argument is that coffee prices > safety of American citizens. And that our economy needs to run on illegal labor to survive.

Step back and realize what you're actually advocating for.

I was promised cheaper prices, where are the cheaper prices?

I don’t give a rats ass about Trump’s performative immigration stunts.

Are the cheaper prices coming tomorrow? Next week? Next month? Next year? Clearly trump had a plan to make these things happen, right?

Why can’t you answer?

[Rasulis]

It's just so fucking boring that the dishonesty and hypocrisy is so fucking predictable. Like, the lack of an actual or coherent ideology makes them so fucking boring.

Op ed piece from Salon. Pretty good reading.

MAGA's true believers don't understand capitalism — Trump will teach them a hard lesson
Today's Republicans have swallowed so many economic myths that reality has disappeared. They face a wakeup call

One delusional mythology about American capitalism that has been instilled in We the People is that we somehow have a guaranteed right to prosperity; this imaginary right has been deployed by politicians who are afraid of educating their constituents about how our model of commerce actually works. Our national press has largely been lazy on this score as well.

With due respect to the many Americans who voted for Donald Trump, their overwhelming sense of entitlement dwarfs that of the hard-working immigrants who cut their grass, scrub pots and pans in the restaurants they frequent, and care for their kids and elderly loved ones. Too many Americans have come to believe they are owed financial comfort and material abundance, not to mention eggs and gasoline at predictable prices.

“Are you better off today than you were four years ago?” Frankly, it’s an illogical question in a capitalist nation. Some people are of course worse off, and I don’t mean to make light of that. But in fact, many millions are better off; Joe Biden’s administration oversaw the recovery of millions of jobs lost during the COVID pandemic and the creation of millions more. Some people out there will be worse off by the time they finish this article than when they commenced reading it. I’m not being flippant; that’s reality.

Welcome to capitalism, a system whose proponents always cite unequal outcomes as a reason for extolling it.

So eggs are expensive? Eat fewer of them. Cut down on egg whites. Let them eat yolks.

Are gas prices high? Is insurance for health care, real estate and vehicles increasing? Are supply chain constraints harming your livelihood, or your quality of life? The person in the White House has very little to do with that. Let’s recall that gas prices steadily increased during George W. Bush’s second term.

Gas was cheap in 2020 because — hello! — tens of millions of drivers weren’t driving. In fact, Trump threatened the Saudis, in the early days of the pandemic: Cut oil production, or lose U.S. military support. Why? More oil flooding the market would have driven prices still lower, and “cheap gas” does not sound like “ka-ching.”

Welcome to the “laws” of supply and demand, which all of us must navigate on a daily basis. If you don’t know or don’t remember these details, ask yourself why you don’t. If you’re a Trump voter, then ask yourself whether you might have voted differently in November had you been aware.

In fact, the notion that a singular person can serve as an economic savior and, in messianic fashion, usher in utopia, is much closer to a socialist-communist notion than a capitalist one. That surely does not mean the government should play no role in our economy; as mentioned above, the Biden administration oversaw remarkable growth. Trump and the Republicans, however, didn't actually campaign on any policy ideas aimed to increase economic mobility and opportunity. They benefited instead from the profoundly human delusion known as nostalgia.

I certainly don’t think that government can solve every problem, nor should try to. Perversely enough, Trump voters want it to try, although most would deny that or are not cognizant of it. The question we can keep posing to Trump voters is this: How much time does he get to fix your economic problems, and when will you understand that he never will? Expect no good answers; there aren’t any.

[gondrin]

Again, your entire argument is that coffee prices > safety of American citizens. And that our economy needs to run on illegal labor to survive.

Step back and realize what you're actually advocating for.

Think of it this way. It isn't the price of coffee that is the issue here. It is the "What If.." part where other countries like Canada that Trump is actively threatening right now, Mexico, Central America, the EU with Greenland and other countries decide to just not do ANY trade with the US. Now comes the point where the entire US economy basically just collapses overnight.

Also, instead of going after the "illegal labor", go after the businesses who actively hire them. Not the ones that didn't know because someone forged a document, the ones that actually know and hire them. Go after the rich assholes that hire "illegal labor" as housekeepers but then abuse the hell out of them because they know they can be deported at any time. Because right now, that is a massive issue in Texas, California, Florida and other states. Because if the businesses weren't hiring, that "illegal labor" wouldn't even be a thing.

[Gaidax]

It's relatively new product for them. I lived in Shanghai from 2005 - 2007. If we want coffee, instant coffee was our only option. Laced heavily with sugar. Drinks like Cappucino are not widely available in China till after the 2010.

Although, while we travelled in Xinjiang (several times between 2005 and 2017), we have been served some really good fresh ground coffee.

Well, I mostly was chilling in Shanghai and Fuzhou and the coffee was terrible. Fuzhou I can understand, it's a small town of 3 million people, but Shanghai and in a tech park I spent most of my day at... man.

Tea, on the other hand, was stellar. I hauled 1-2kg of tea every time with me when I was flying back home. Frankly, I'd rather get loaded on Chinese tea, than coffee - if I'd try to buy anything as good as there locally, I'd be paying arm and leg.

[Bwgmon]

I hate presidential pardon power and would do away with it completely if it was me. Ripe for corruption from both sides.

And I'm sure the only reason you take issue with it is because you're upset that Trump can't go after Hunter Biden and Dr. Fauci in the way "his side" wanted him to, not Silk Road or the 1600 insurrectionists.

[Edge-]

Again, your entire argument is that coffee prices > safety of American citizens. And that our economy needs to run on illegal labor to survive.

Step back and realize what you're actually advocating for.

That's not my argument. That's neve been my argument. I understand why inflation exists and what contributes to it, unlike conservatives.

That was your argument leading into the election, though.

- - - Updated - - -

And I'm sure the only reason you take issue with it is because of Hunter Biden and Dr. Fauci, not Silk Road or the 1600 insurrectionists.

I particularly like the felon who was pardoned for Jan. 6 who is facing gun charges because he was already a felon not allowed to own a gun.

And the guy that beat the shit outta the cops with the hockey stick. Those are my favorite conservative heroes.

[Poopymonster]

Orange Mussolini - I heard that somewhere today

The term was Mango Mussolini during his first infestation.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Think of it this way. It isn't the price of coffee that is the issue here. It is the "What If.." part where other countries like Canada that Trump is actively threatening right now, Mexico, Central America, the EU with Greenland and other countries decide to just not do ANY trade with the US. Now comes the point where the entire US economy basically just collapses overnight.

Also, instead of going after the "illegal labor", go after the businesses who actively hire them. Not the ones that didn't know because someone forged a document, the ones that actually know and hire them. Go after the rich assholes that hire "illegal labor" as housekeepers but then abuse the hell out of them because they know they can be deported at any time. Because right now, that is a massive issue in Texas, California, Florida and other states. Because if the businesses weren't hiring, that "illegal labor" wouldn't even be a thing.

You're not wrong, businesses and employers share part of the blame as well.

- - - Updated - - -

But it does there's no way we can afford the things we have without that illegal labor force that gets paid low wages. The farm, fishing, construction among others simply do not have the money to hire Americans and some even if they pay the highest rate cannot find people. Those are facts and Americans are complaining about inflation and you are advocating for insanely higher prices.

Every reliable economists are warning that if we continue down this path we are facing a deep recession possibly a depression.

Economists have been wrong about plenty of things.

[Breccia]

Step back and realize what you're actually advocating for.

You advocate for violent terrorists. You have no moral authority to lecture here. Until you tell me how many of the 538 arrests the White House touted were violent criminals, your claims of "safety!" mean nothing, either. What you have is projection. You're hoping the people caught are as dangerous as your fellow Trump voters proved they were in triple the number of arrests, most of whom were convicted, many of those admitted such and plead guilty.

That's why you cheered on a meme. Trump posting a picture, literally the bare minimum, was better than the nothing you knew you voted for.

- - - Updated - - -

Economists have been wrong about plenty of things.

Trump has been wrong about more. The difference is he lied on purpose for a lot of them.

[Edge-]

Economists have been wrong about plenty of things.

And right about many more. But why engage in the subject matter when you can repeat empty platitudes?

[Mayhem]

Imagine thinking a temporary, small bump in coffee prices is more important than the safety of our citizens.

Regardless, the tariffs worked. A tool to be used when appropriate.

Exactly, the counter-tariffs Colombia imposed immediately made Trump cave. No idea how that is related to the safety of US citizens but hu sure. Well done Colombia, they sure showed Trump the FO part of FAFO.

[gondrin]

You're not wrong, businesses and employers share part of the blame as well.

- - - Updated - - -



Economists have been wrong about plenty of things.

Not really. Businesses share pretty much all of the blame. It isn't like someone that is undocumented tries to start their own business. That is one thing. However, the vast majority of those who are undocumented work for businesses, like farms, factories and construction, that have been hiring undocumented people for decades now.

It is no different than drug dealers selling drugs to people addicted.

- - - Updated - - -

So tell me, why should ICE or any police or peace officer need to be "camera ready" unless it is to be for a staged event?

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/27/polit...orm/index.html

Federal agents in immigration operations told to be camera-ready as hundreds arrested

The Trump administration’s weekend immigration sweeps that included nearly 1,000 arrests and has chilled many immigrant communities was followed by another blitz: A barrage of video and photos from the federal government showing agents in tactical gear and vests emblazoned with “Police ICE” and “Homeland Security” taking cuffed suspects away.

The made-for-TV look of the arrests is not a coincidence.

At least two agencies assisting US immigration officials with the sweeps ordered by the fledgling Republican White House have told personnel to ensure their clothing clearly depicts their respective agency in case they are filmed by journalists, sources familiar with the operations tell CNN.

While it is a common safety practice for agents conducting arrests to wear insignias clearly identifying themselves as law enforcement, even agents on the perimeter of operations conducted across the nation have been specifically instructed by their leadership to wear raid jackets in view of media attention, sources said.

On Sunday, federal agencies released numerous photos on social media of agents in tactical gear conducting purported immigration arrests.

TV talk show host Dr. Phil McGraw announced on social media he was “embedded” with an Immigration and Customs Enforcement team in Chicago as operations began. McGraw released video showing him interviewing the Trump administration’s new “border czar,” Tom Homan, at what was described as an ICE Command Center.

Inviting a celebrity guest to the Chicago operations was frustrating to Illinois Attorney General Kwame Raoul, a Democrat, who told CNN’s Jim Acosta his office has not received any notice about the arrests despite working with federal law enforcement in the past.

“I think it’s done for the show, and I think it’s done to upset community and to score political points with those who want to divide,” said Raoul.

Democratic US Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois said his congressional offices would help anyone who was improperly arrested. “We can all agree we that must remove dangerous individuals who are here illegally,” Durbin wrote said in a post on X. “But the actions being taken by the Trump admin go beyond those goals.”

In addition to Chicago, immigration actions were also reported in California, Texas, Georgia, Colorado, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands, according to Homeland Security and the Drug Enforcement Agency.

“We’re prioritizing criminal aliens,” Homan told CNN on Sunday, but added, “There’s going to be a point where we have to open the aperture to fugitives.”

Teams across the country have been given various quotas for the number of so-called “high-profile” immigration sweeps they should conduct each month, one source said, with the goal being to beat the number of administrative arrests made by Immigration and Customs Enforcement last year.

Now, here is what Biden did just last year when it comes to deportations like this. Same article.

ICE’s Enforcement and Removal Operations conducted 113,431 administrative arrests in the fiscal year that ended October 2024, according to an agency report. That’s about 310 arrests a day.

So Trump is trying to make a game out of it by trying to beat Biden's "high score", so to speak.

[Breccia]

That’s about 310 arrests a day..

Wasn't the big Chicago raid lauded by the WH for 538 arrests, not even double, and ended up with Trump being stared down by Juan Valdez?

[Edge-]

*snip*

This is my favorite -

“We’re prioritizing criminal aliens,” Homan told CNN on Sunday, but added, “There’s going to be a point where we have to open the aperture to fugitives.”

That's why they're showing up at literal schools where children are, rofl. the children are the dangerous criminal alien fugitives.

look out, the 7 year old is prepping a snot rocket

[Mayhem]

And that our economy needs to run on illegal labor to survive.

Well, illegal labor and slave labor. If you want to change that, change the system, start taxing billionaires an actual meaningful amount, and increase the minimum wage to a livable wage.