Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Trump is a fucking clown if he thinks most countries will just bend over and take his bully tactics.

The world saw what Trump did last time. Hopefully, they're smarter than we are and learned from our poor decisions. Trump should be out of second chances from countries that actually have a sane population.

[PACOX]

So does Trump other countries can't just work around the US tariffs? Like China and our very own allies in the EU can't just come together? This MF or anyone part of his admin never played a 4X game?

[Edge-]

So does Trump other countries can't just work around the US tariffs? Like China and our very own allies in the EU can't just come together?

Donald isn't really capable of complex thinking, so no.

[Ivanstone]

All of this needs added context.

They don't need to say "We, Canada, did this." They don't need to say "We're doing this because of Trump."

They need to say "Trump and the GOP did this to you." Because it's true.

And then the American people need to see that for four years. Maybe that'll finally get through some of the thicker skulls. No ability to look away, no ability to plug their ears, no ability to rationalize it or blame it on anyone but the man, and the people who supported him, who are responsible.

Kentucky, for example, lost a lot of trade last time around and still voted for Trump by 26 pts in 2020. I wouldn't rely on voters changing their minds. Business lobbyists do pay attention so they might be able to work the problem. Trump lost the last trade war.

[Somewhatconcerned]

This is why the media has no credibility left. First the tariffs were going to cost $4k/yr, then it was $2k/yr, and now it's down to $830/yr.

Why should anyone believe you?

https://x.com/TaxFoundation/status/1885407396647870603

[Kaleredar]

Kentucky, for example, lost a lot of trade last time around and still voted for Trump by 26 pts in 2020. I wouldn't rely on voters changing their minds. Business lobbyists do pay attention so they might be able to work the problem. Trump lost the last trade war.

I don't expect the deep red states to pull their heads out of their asses. But it's not about convincing them, it's about convincing the swing states. And not just the republicans in the swing states, but the "uninformed voters" and "sit it out" democrats to get off their asses.

[Tech614]

I don't expect the deep red states to pull their heads out of their asses. But it's not about convincing them, it's about convincing the swing states. And not just the republicans in the swing states, but the "uninformed voters" and "sit it out" democrats to get off their asses.

Taxing goods from those states ain't going to do a single damn thing for the greater populace of them or change their voting opinion. That's just pissing off a few rich assholes in those states that control the production of those goods. If Canada wants to actually grow balls and stand up to the Orange buffoon they need to cut off all energy exports entirely, which will have a big fucking impact on the voters in those states not what their current plan is.

[Ivanstone]

Taxing goods from those states ain't going to do a single damn thing for the greater populace of them or change their voting opinion. That's just pissing off a few rich assholes in those states that control the production of those goods. If Canada wants to actually grow balls and stand up to the Orange buffoon they need to cut off all energy exports entirely, which will have a big fucking impact on the voters in those states not what their current plan is.

Marlaina won't cut off the flow of oil. She thinks Alberta and Trump are buddies now.

[Endus]

Marlaina won't cut off the flow of oil. She thinks Alberta and Trump are buddies now.

Really, she doesn't get a say if Ottawa says we're not selling to the USA, or that we're applying export taxes to disincentivize doing so (and increasing the price for Americans commensurately).

Danielle Smith can bitch and moan about it, but she doesn't get to overrule it, much the same way no American Governor could just up and say "MY state's gonna trade with Iran and we don't care what the Feds say!"

[Breccia]

This is why the media has no credibility left. First the tariffs were going to cost $4k/yr, then it was $2k/yr, and now it's down to $830/yr.

Why should anyone believe you?

There are so many things wrong in two lines of text. Naturally, I will shove them all down your throat.

First, you're very likely referring to articles like this

https://www.piie.com/research/piie-c...household-over

Which are based on projected Trump tariffs, including 60% on China and 20% on everything else, which Trump did say, specifically and directly, on purpose, in public.

The $830 is based on the numbers he used, which are much smaller than that earlier campaign promise he has either broken, or at least hasn't fulfilled yet. Considering Trump has promised to increase the tariffs if Mexico and Canada retaliate, which they have, the $830 will go up with them. It's what happens when you work with actual facts, not random shit a fat orange person made up.

I'll then move onto "The Tax Foundation is not the media. Tax Foundation is the world's leading independent tax policy nonprofit."

Now let's go on and throw in that Trump threw out the NYTimes from the WH, and invited Breitbart. So when you say "no credibility" and do not address this, the problem is pretty clear.

And just to close things up for now, for someone who supported and voted for a convicted fraud felon, "no credibility" is something you have no moral authority to say. You proved to everyone, including yourself, that credibility is not something you value. And quite frankly, that post of yours says it's not just credibility in others that has no value to you.

But maybe we should get someone else in on this. Hey @Flarelaine you seem to post here moderately often, and regard discussion of Trump's actions as a valued topic in this fast-moving thread. What do you think about this clearly honest, genuine, well-intentioned post intended to bring about honest, genuine discussion and debate, about the media having no credibility?

[Kaleredar]

Taxing goods from those states ain't going to do a single damn thing for the greater populace of them or change their voting opinion. That's just pissing off a few rich assholes in those states that control the production of those goods. If Canada wants to actually grow balls and stand up to the Orange buffoon they need to cut off all energy exports entirely, which will have a big fucking impact on the voters in those states not what their current plan is.

If rich assholes are pissed off, where do you think they're going to pass those costs on to? The consumers.

The rich assholes aren't going to settle for making less money, now are they?

- - - Updated - - -

This is why the media has no credibility left. First the tariffs were going to cost $4k/yr, then it was $2k/yr, and now it's down to $830/yr.

Why should anyone believe you?

https://x.com/TaxFoundation/status/1885407396647870603

When are the prices of eggs going down?

Is it soon?

[Tech614]

If rich assholes are pissed off, where do you think they're going to pass those costs on to? The consumers.

The rich assholes aren't going to settle for making less money, now are they?

So you think the average Floridian is going to notice a 20 cent increase in their orange juice or Wisconsian 40 cent increase in their cheese and realize they shouldn't have voted for Trump?

The cost is so miniscule to the average voter in these states they won't even notice it at all. They would notice their electric bill, gas bill and car fillup increasing exponentially on the other hand.

When Trump is starting a trade war with you retaliating only to specific goods in specific states is not a good enough response. And right now is not the time to feel bad about blue states being impacted as well.

[Breccia]

They don't need to say "We, Canada, did this." They don't need to say "We're doing this because of Trump."

They need to say "Trump and the GOP did this to you." Because it's true.

Trudeau is picking the first two options. He did not quite say "this is your own fault" but he was leaning closer to that than I remember him in the past.

Tonight, first I want to speak directly to Americans. Our closest friends and neighbors. This is a choice that, yes, will harm Canadians. But beyond that, it will have real consequences for you, the American people.

As I have consistently said, tariffs against Canada will put your jobs at risk, potentially shutting down American auto assembly plants and other manufacturing facilities.

They will raise costs for you, including food at the grocery stores and gas at the pump.

They will impede your access to an affordable supply of vital goods crucial for U.S. security, such as nickel, potash, uranium, steel and aluminum.

They will violate the free trade agreement that the president and I, along with our Mexican partner, negotiated and signed a few years ago. But it doesn’t have to be this way.

The link is the entire transcript. He points out that Canada was a huge help during 9/11, Katrina, and clamping down on fentanyl, for example. In other words, he's the best friend saying "what you're doing is stupid" and hoping we listen.

I see no reason Trudeau, specifically, will back off from this. The world wants Canada's oil more than Canada wants American ice skates and cranberry juice.

- - - Updated - - -

So you think the average Floridian is going to notice a 20 cent increase in their orange juice or Wisconsian 40 cent increase in their cheese and realize they shouldn't have voted for Trump?

Well, no. The typical Floridian probably doesn't import their own orange juice. They might notice when their big export stops selling so well overseas, due to a percentage increase along the lines of 25% (not 25 cents), and due to that drop in sales, jobs start getting cut. That's the theory, at least.

- - - Updated - - -

All three crew members of the US military helicopter in the crash have been identified.

They were all white.

The pilot of the jet was a white male. They had each served for at least 7 years. They were not DEI hires. That wasn't the problem. Trump lied.

[Tech614]

That's the theory, at least.

It's a terrible theory because they have their entire customer base to spread a price increase across, not just in the state being targeted. If you think Florida is gonna see a 25% increase on their orange juice prices because canada is taxing it you are not living in reality. Canada is absolutely stupid if they think any of their current retaliation is going to significantly impact republican voters. Trumps own tariffs on mexico and china is going to hurt these voters more than what canada just did.

[Kaleredar]

So you think the average Floridian is going to notice a 20 cent increase in their orange juice or Wisconsian 40 cent increase in their cheese and realize they shouldn't have voted for Trump?

The cost is so miniscule to the average voter in these states they won't even notice it at all. They would notice their electric bill, gas bill and car fillup increasing exponentially on the other hand.

When Trump is starting a trade war with you retaliating only to specific goods in specific states is not a good enough response. And right now is not the time to feel bad about blue states being impacted as well.

It's not going to begin and end with oranges and cheese. The US' trade with Canada, Mexico and China is multifaceted and retaliatory tariffs will cascade and compound through numerous industries that the American public engages with every day. It'll be felt in products, working conditions, and job numbers. Because as I noted... the rich assholes aren't going to stand to make less money year over year, so if their cost of business goes up they're going to take it out on consumers and employees. Directly.

Besides, if Trump's promise was "prices will be lower" and, lo and behold, they aren't lower, that's pretty good ground to strike at him and the republicans from.

I mean look at @Somewhatconcerned flailing around desperately. The BEST they can offer is "See?! People will only be paying HUNDREDS of dollars more a year for no reason instead of THOUSANDS!"

That's not a winning political strategy.

[Breccia]

If you think Florida is gonna see a 25% increase on their orange juice prices because canada is taxing it

(sighs)

Florida. Is not. Importing. Orange juice.

[gondrin]

Taxing goods from those states ain't going to do a single damn thing for the greater populace of them or change their voting opinion. That's just pissing off a few rich assholes in those states that control the production of those goods. If Canada wants to actually grow balls and stand up to the Orange buffoon they need to cut off all energy exports entirely, which will have a big fucking impact on the voters in those states not what their current plan is.

I said it earlier in the thread. Want to cause harm to the US? Cut off trade. Embargo any and all goods coming from and to the US.

I live in Ohio. I will be affected by it as much as anyone else. I frankly welcome it as it is the only way the MAGA morons will listen as they do not nor ever will listen to reason. The only understand pain and fear. The more the world stops trading with the US, the more pressure it will put on the same idiots that enabled him.

Start off with natural resources and the like. Oil, power, wood, ores and the like.

[Breccia]

The BEST they can offer is "See?! People will only be paying HUNDREDS of dollars more a year for no reason instead of THOUSANDS!"

Which, in turn, is based on "Trump isn't applying tariffs as large as he said he'd apply". He could point that out too, but considering Trump could easily raise those tariffs, defending their current values is a lost cause. For all we know, Trump will double them within 24 hours.

[gondrin]

It's a terrible theory because they have their entire customer base to spread a price increase across, not just in the state being targeted. If you think Florida is gonna see a 25% increase on their orange juice prices because canada is taxing it you are not living in reality. Canada is absolutely stupid if they think any of their current retaliation is going to significantly impact republican voters. Trumps own tariffs on mexico and china is going to hurt these voters more than what canada just did.

If Canadians buy less OJ, that directly affects Florida as a lot of Orange Juices comes directly from the orange groves there. Florida won't see the increase in price. They will see the drop in revenue due to lower demand for their oranges.

[Breccia]

If Canadians buy less OJ, that directly affects Florida as a lot of Orange Juices comes directly from the orange groves there. Florida won't see the increase in price. They will see the drop in revenue due to lower demand for their oranges.

I want to add to that. Mexico also sells oranges, and Trump raised the price of oranges coming into the US, so Mexico is looking for another port.

As Trudeau pointed out, Trump arranged the current NAFTA-esque deal that he is now breaking. Canada and Mexico are both being wronged. It would make logical sense for them to address the issue with each other, as they'll both share the motivation to do so.