Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Trump opens his mouth and WaPo immediately fact checks him.

Trump, with billionaire Elon Musk at his side, asserted that Musk’s U.S. DOGE Service had already identified “tens of billions” of “waste, fraud and abuse.” He suggested it could be as much as $500 billion and “when you get down to it, it’s going to be probably close to a trillion dollars. It could be close to a trillion dollars that we’re going to find.”

Trump’s numbers do not come anywhere close to matching figures posted on the DOGE account on X, Musk’s social media site. (DOGE stands for Department of Government Efficiency, though it is not a Cabinet-level agency.) We added up all the figures posted, taking most of them at face value, though virtually no documentation was presented. The numbers add up to about $6 billion a year, though $4 billion comes from a proposed cap on National Institutes of Health research overhead payments to universities, medical centers and other grant recipients. A judge has blocked that for now.
.
In other words, DOGE has claimed only about $2 billion in annual savings from specific line items — most of which appear to come from ending diversity or climate change programs. Whether that constitutes “waste, fraud and abuse” is a matter of opinion.

WaPo goes on to list everything Musk says he found. Indeed, it adds up to nowhere near what Trump said. WaPo sent the WH its own itemized list, only for the WH to respond by saying it could save $800 billion a year. It did not back up this claim. If Trump's current rate of finding $2 billion every 4 weeks remained, that is of course $26 billion and not $800 billion.

Trump lies all the time about everything.

[Xath]

https://itep.org/federal-tax-debate-...p-tax-changes/

To gain any advantage from the proposed 2025 tax changes you need to be making in excess of 350k a year somehow I don't think that's many MAGATs

[Kaleredar]

https://itep.org/federal-tax-debate-...p-tax-changes/

To gain any advantage from the proposed 2025 tax changes you need to be making in excess of 350k a year somehow I don't think that's many MAGATs

@Somewhatconcerned

I don't quite make 350k a year; how are these tax breaks supposed to offset the proposed permanent egg-price hike?

I was assured that the tax breaks that every citizen would be getting, in the order of hundreds of dollars of savings, would be sufficient to offset any price of good raises.

Actually, I was assured that the tax breaks would be in the order of thousands of dollars of savings, but then Trump immediately walked away from that and I was assured that it would be hundreds of dollars in savings.

Actually actually, I was assured prices would go back down, but then Trump immediately walked away from that then I was assured that savings to the order of thousands of dollars would offset the prices.

What thing can you assure me is going to cover the cost of these things next?

Because to me it looks an awful lot like Trump is just making a can-kicking line of excuses and whatever problems you imagine he was going to solve he's just telling you what you want to hear so that he can line his own pockets.

That can't possibly be true now, can it?

[PhaelixWW]

I don't quite make 350k a year; how are these tax breaks supposed to offset the proposed permanent egg-price hike?

Well, see, cheaper energy and gas prices means that... <checks notes> hmm... the energy company is going to pay you hundreds of dollars a month to offset tarifflation.

[gondrin]

So, even Fox News is calling out Elon.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cbc410d2&ei=46

‘Open Up Your Own Books!’ Fox News Host Calls on Musk to Be Transparent About His ‘Billions’ in Government Contracts

According to The New York Times, at least 11 federal agencies that have been affected by DOGE cuts have more than 32 current investigations, pending complaints, or enforcement actions against Musk’s companies. Some of the inquiries include fines for safety violations against SpaceX and a lawsuit from the Securities and Exchange Commission demanding Musk handover up to $150 million for violating federal securities law.

Tarlov joined Fox News on Wednesday and told anchor Martha MacCallum that Musk needs to be more transparent about his government contracts and potential conflicts of interest. Tarlov argued:

But the real issue here is that he’s talking a big game about transparency, but he’s not being transparent himself. This idea that Elon Musk shouldn’t have to do financial disclosures like everybody else who’s working in the government is ludicrous…And President Trump said yesterday, oh well, he doesn’t need to do it.

Karoline Leavitt has said he doesn’t need to do it. The New York Times is reporting that at least 11 of the federal agencies that they have gone after have open complaints over 32 open complaints into Musk’s businesses. Don’t the American people deserve to know? He has tens of billions of dollars in government contracts? If you are the Doge master, then open up your own books. That’s part of the federal government. They are spending money on Elon Musk and all this technology.

[Kaleredar]

Well, see, cheaper energy and gas prices means that... <checks notes> hmm... the energy company is going to pay you hundreds of dollars a month to offset tarifflation.

Darn that kind of sounds like redistribution of wealth to me.

I was always told that was a bad thing!

Is Trump secretly a commie? Musk is a foreigner, after all.

[KrayZ33]

Are crashing planes the US version of Russia's "falling out of a window"-sport?
Another (military-)plane crashed yesterday?

[Corvus]

Most of NATO is laying into Trump. Betrayal seems to be a fairly common word and there can be no negotiations without Ukraine and Europe being involved. The German defence minister has said Trump pretty much surrendered to pootie before negotiations even started.

[Mayhem]

The hipocrisy is what gets me.

Really, REALLY? You of all people are surprised by hypocrisy? JFC what mode are you switching between threads?

- - - Updated - - -

Is Trump secretly a commie? Musk is a foreigner, after all.

Trump has German roots and Musk mumbled sounds almost like Marx who was also German and I think that should be enough for everyone to realize what's going on, open your eyes people, it's right before your eyes!

[Flarelaine]

"Which one's the child?"

Guess.

The op-ed cartoonist at The Times also seems to have been pondering the same question.

[Breccia]

Betrayal seems to be a fairly common word

It's not technically a betrayal. Everyone knew Trump would do this. He is a strong believer in America first and it was very obvious he would take a lot of money from Ukraine then give half of it to Russia. Because that's America First.

Next, he's taking Gaza and putting his hotels on it. This is also America First. It is good for America to grab contested land in the Middle East and spend taxpayer money on housing for people who are not Americans.

[Xath]

It's not technically a betrayal. Everyone knew Trump would do this. He is a strong believer in America first and it was very obvious he would take a lot of money from Ukraine then give half of it to Russia. Because that's America First.

Next, he's taking Gaza and putting his hotels on it. This is also America First. It is good for America to grab contested land in the Middle East and spend taxpayer money on housing for people who are not Americans.

How in the name of all that is holy and unholy is it America first to drop corporate tax rates to 15% and drive a brain drain on a level that has never been seen before by slashing research budgets and driving public universities to extinction.

[Mayhem]

How in the name of all that is holy and unholy is it America first to drop corporate tax rates to 15% and drive a brain drain on a level that has never been seen before by slashing research budgets and driving public universities to extinction.

Because everything is America First as long as you call it America First.

[Breccia]

How in the name of all that is holy and unholy is it America first to drop corporate tax rates to 15% and drive a brain drain on a level that has never been seen before by slashing research budgets and driving public universities to extinction.

Because America has proudly and publicly admitted it doesn't value truth, facts, or education.

Hey, I'm not thrilled with it, either. But that's what we said.

[Xath]

Because America has proudly and publicly admitted it doesn't value truth, facts, or education.

Hey, I'm not thrilled with it, either. But that's what we said.

I still have extreme doubts that he actually won especially with how he is basically letting Elon be president in all but name.

[Templar 331]

I still have extreme doubts that he actually won especially with how he is basically letting Elon be president in all but name.

Just like with everything about him, as long as his cult believes he's in charge that's all that matters. "Anything good, all him! Anything bad, not him!" The real question is how much backlash will Elmo face when, not if, things go bad.

As for Elmo fiddling with anything voter related, it's possible. But like Breccia said, America proudly doesn't value truth, facts, or education so the election could legitimately have gone to Trump. As unfortunate as that is.

[Breccia]

Well, I don‘t have any expectations anymore. I think we know exactly what‘s going to happen.

Trump has effectively surrendered to Putin before the negotiations have even begun.

The positions that Defense Secretary [Pete] Hegseth announced in Brussels, which I‘m sure — I‘d be stunned if Trump didn‘t convey them directly to Putin in their phone call — constitute terms of a settlement that could have been written in the Kremlin. Maybe they were written in the Kremlin and got out in propaganda channels.

-- Bolton, man Trump intentionally hired on purpose to be his National Security Advisor

Mr. President, Ukraine will only ‘be Russian someday’ if the United States abandons them to [Russian President Vladimir] Putin’s brutal invasion. As you just said, ’When America is Strong the World is at Peace.’ Stand Firm.

If Ukraine falls, it will only be a matter of time until Russia invades a NATO ally our troops will be required to defend.

-- Mike Pence, man Trump intentionally hired on purpose to be his Vice President

McMaster hasn't said anything super recently, but based on this quote, he's not thrilled.

"Ukrainians are struggling to generate the manpower that they need and to sustain their defensive efforts, and it's important that they get the weapons they need and the training that they need, but also they have to have the confidence that they can prevail," he said. "And any sort of messages that we might reduce our aid are quite damaging to them from a moral perspective."

McMaster said he's hopeful that Trump's picks, and the president-elect himself, will "begin to see the quite obvious connections between the war in Ukraine and this axis of aggressors that are doing everything they can to tear down the existing international order." He cited the North Korean soldiers fighting on European soil in the first major war in Europe since World War II, the efforts China is taking to "sustain Russia's war-making machine," and the drones and missiles Iran has provided as part of the broader picture.

"So I think what's happened is so many people have taken such a myopic view of Ukraine, and they've misunderstood Putin's intentions and how consequential the war is to our interests across the world," McMaster said.

On Trump's selections for top national security and defense posts, McMaster stressed the importance of the Senate's advice and consent role in making sure "the best people are in those positions."

McMaster outlined that based on his experience, Trump listens to advice and learns from those around him. And he argued that the nominees for director of national intelligence and defense secretary should be asked key questions like how they will "reconcile peace through strength," and what they think "motivates, drives and constrains" Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Now that we know who those directors/secretaries are...I think it's safe to say that, no, they won't push Trump in any direction. They'll let him literally sell Ukraine to Russia.

[Doomcookie]

Fight from whom? Democrats are in the minority.

Tax cuts were widely celebrated last time, and don't forget many large corporations gave pretty decent one-time bonuses ($3k-5k) to all their employees as a result.

Also don't forget any conversation about this is incomplete without taking into account lower energy costs which then translate into lower costs of goods everywhere. Eventually egg prices will settle down, that talking point will vanish. Anecdotal, but I've already seen gas prices come down 0.25 in my area in the past few weeks. It will obviously take some time but the combination of lower cost of goods and more money in your pocket from lower taxes WILL eventually hit.

This was proven as a lie, no need to repeat it.

[NineSpine]

Just like with everything about him, as long as his cult believes he's in charge that's all that matters. "Anything good, all him! Anything bad, not him!" The real question is how much backlash will Elmo face when, not if, things go bad.

As for Elmo fiddling with anything voter related, it's possible. But like Breccia said, America proudly doesn't value truth, facts, or education so the election could legitimately have gone to Trump. As unfortunate as that is.

My mother after I listed out how Trump's mishandling of covid cost hundreds of thousands of lives:

"Everyone makes mistakes!"

The problem with America is everyone thinks we are just entitled to our status as world leaders and the benefits of things like being the world's reserve currency or being an important trading partner. These are notions based on our assent in a world where almost every other developed nation was a smoldering ruin after two world wars. We aren't entitled to shit, and arrogant Americans are about to find that out.

[Timester]

The Mad King is mad, it's going to be a political slaughter by the Mad King loses it completely and honestly, it's way sooner than anyone think.