Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[david0925]

A lot of people who voted for Trump are not MAGA. They are just stupid and desperate. Sure you are not getting the hateful bigots to vote against him. But the hateful bigots are not the 77 millions who voted for him. They are probably far more than anyone should be comfortable with but I doubt they are more than 60 million.

Does it matter that much though? These are probably the same people that flipped in 2016 too. Sure they can flip again in 2028 but they will definitely flip again in 2032

The issue of their struggle is a late stage capitalism issue but they don't listen. If they don't listen they pretty much are the same as the cultists.

[Timester]

Only if you fail. While not doing anything and continuing to play by the rules as your opponent burned their copy of the rule book long time ago will absolutely lead to dictatorship and/or pure oligarchy.

Sometimes there are no viable feel-good options.

"Only if you fail" is speedy-running directly into a marshall law and a true dictatorship. Isn't really that hard to understand.

[fwc577]

Ultimately I believe Trumpism will fail because he is an idiot, dictatorship only works if you give the people something in return for your power grab. The CCP uplifted millions from poverty, Putin for all his fault made life better compared to how bad Russia was before. Trump on the other hand is just looting everything and actively making life worse, the question is how bad will things get before people really turn on him. While I have no hope for the Neo Nazi racist cult followers which represent 28-33% of the population, the rest will turn especially after he guts social security, medicare, medicaid, SNAP and other popular programs.

These people don't care until it affects them directly and Trump is planning to hit them where it hurts because he gives zero fucks.

Exactly. He will even lose some of that 28-33%. People are more than happy to love Trump and wear all the MAGA gear while running around on their scooters they bought via Medicare. But strip them of the couple of things they do get from the Govt and these people will change their tune real fucking quick.

[Gabriel]

"Only if you fail" is speedy-running directly into a marshall law and a true dictatorship. Isn't really that hard to understand.

Then sit back and get there slower. The destination remains the same.

[Nymrohd]

Does it matter that much though? These are probably the same people that flipped in 2016 too. Sure they can flip again in 2028 but they will definitely flip again in 2032

The issue of their struggle is a late stage capitalism issue but they don't listen. If they don't listen they pretty much are the same as the cultists.

Maybe do something about late stage capitalism then
They will keep flipping until someone does something for them.

[Tech614]

Then sit back and get there slower. The destination remains the same.

As someone who has lived through Reagan, 12 years of a Bush and 4 years of a Trump already, nah I'm pretty sure the destination is not the same to just wait on Trump to screw everything up and the voting populace to remove the republicans from power.

In before the "those weren't the same" argument, you're right. Reagan was actually worse for the country than anything Trump has ever done to this point. Because he was actually competent at accomplishing his evil goals unlike Trump.

Speed run to civil war because of Trump? Yea, every sane person is good on that. The states will still hold their elections in 2 and 4 years and that is where you take control back. Some idiotic coup attempt would just give Trump the power to declare marshall law and be the dictator you claim he is, but isn't at this point.

In the mean time before those said elections, the people that voted for Trump can reap what they sow as his policies degrade their QoL. After all it is mostly the poor people in poor red states that are going to be hit the hardest.

[Gabriel]

As someone who has lived through Reagan, 12 years of a Bush and 4 years of a Trump already, nah I'm pretty sure the destination is not the same to just wait on Trump to screw everything up and the voting populace to remove the republicans from power.

In before the "those weren't the same" argument, you're right. Reagan was actually worse for the country than anything Trump has ever done to this point. Because he was actually competent at accomplishing his evil goals unlike Trump.

Speed run to civil war because of Trump? Yea, every sane person is good on that. The states will still hold their elections in 2 and 4 years and that is where you take control back. Some idiotic coup attempt would just give Trump the power to declare marshall law and be the dictator you claim he is, but isn't at this point.

Will you promise to eat a bucket full of shit on a livestream if by the 2 year mark Trump and Elon have made it impossible to dislodge them anymore through democratic means?

[Endus]

Could you remind me what it took last time to dislodge a Nazi government that had been left to shape the rest of the country to their image? They were voted out, right?

I feel it's important to point out that Hitler and his Nazi conspiracists were charged, and convicted, of treason, and imprisoned well before their full rise to power. The courts couldn't stop the rise of the Nazi Reich either, and that was before they were directly corrupted by the Nazis, as American courts already have been by Republicans.

The saving grace is that as stupid and cowardly as the Nazis were, Musk and Trump and co are much more stupid and chickenshit.

[Breccia]

The american populace voted for it and are getting what they voted for.

I hate to agree with this, but so far, it's correct. We've seen plenty of cases of Trump saying "I will now do this blatantly illegal thing" and the courts saying "no". And Trump still can't make his budget. He's forced to use lies and deceit, like the phantom gold bars missing from Fort Knox, to sway opinions. It could yet become a coup, and what we have is bad enough, but it's not technically there yet. It's just Diet Coup. With fries.

[Wilian]

A lot of people who voted for Trump are not MAGA. They are just stupid and desperate. Sure you are not getting the hateful bigots to vote against him. But the hateful bigots are not the 77 millions who voted for him. They are probably far more than anyone should be comfortable with but I doubt they are more than 60 million.

Its not 2015 anymore. That excuse doesn't fly.

[Endus]

I hate to agree with this, but so far, it's correct. We've seen plenty of cases of Trump saying "I will now do this blatantly illegal thing" and the courts saying "no". And Trump still can't make his budget. He's forced to use lies and deceit, like the phantom gold bars missing from Fort Knox, to sway opinions. It could yet become a coup, and what we have is bad enough, but it's not technically there yet. It's just Diet Coup. With fries.

The key distinction is gonna be that coups are unlawful.

Thus far, Trump and co have been declaring their actions lawful, and the courts haven't freaked out. There's a little bit of blocking, but the President hasn't overruled the courts yet. That's where it'll cross the line.

Just changing what's lawful doesn't qualify as a coup, in and of itself. That's just the American system of government being deeply flawed and incompetently designed.

[Breccia]

That's just the American system of government being deeply flawed and incompetently designed.

I'll correct when I have evidence. Don't hold your breath, it'll be a few years.

[Xyonai]

I adore your positive attitude. Is this because you think there aren't actually enough MAGAts to take over the country, or because the Dems will step up and initiate strikes to halt the take-over and force new elections?

Just musing some ideas; not entirely hopeful for the implementation but just kinda throwing out how to avoid something like this in the future when/if the administration changes.

[tehdang]

The american populace voted for it and are getting what they voted for.

Attempting a coup on Trump would in fact install him as the dictator he wants to be, so silly that people even have that fantasy in their heads.

Some idiotic coup attempt would just give Trump the power to declare marshall law and be the dictator you claim he is, but isn't at this point.

In the mean time before those said elections, the people that voted for Trump can reap what they sow as his policies degrade their QoL. After all it is mostly the poor people in poor red states that are going to be hit the hardest.

Internet leftists have to get off this coup bullshit. You won't win on the fascist overthrow argument, either by saying that Musk has already completed a coup, or that there's going to be a coup in 2028, instead of the same elections we've had for longer than anybody here has been alive.

Get a winning argument, and make your pitch, and ask for votes. Try to make Americans forget that you called them idiots for even considering voting against you last time. Point to the failures of the Trump administration, and there will be plenty, and argue that you'll do a better job.

And for the love of god, try to win a House majority in the midterms so you can actually subpoena members of executive departments to testify under oath.

If you're going to engage in defeatist talk that also alienates swing voters, your election victory margins will be lower than they would otherwise be. Americans always have a choice. Democracy is about convincing more of them to vote differently next time. It precisely isn't a blueprint to spend a year whining about how opposing voters are bad people, you don't want their vote, Democracy itself is doomed, in fact its already over etc etc etc.

[SAY HER NAME]

Antonin Scalia basically destroys the current approach of the Trump administration. The Trump admin has decided that congress and the senate doesnt matter and everything will be act first and fight it in the court later.

The expansion of executive power under Trump is insane and unseen. Obviously, this is a process in the making for a while but the executive is now seeking to expand it into dictatorial territory.The GOP want a king under Trump, and are all to willing to cede all the power to one man. The king, Trump

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Also worth mentioning that this process isnt dont illegally, Hungary didnt descend into authoritarianism illegally. Its a slow process and then suddenly. Weakening the guard rails and then pressing them hard until it finally breaks. That is the strategy of the Trump admin.

[Endus]

Internet leftists have to get off this coup bullshit. You won't win on the fascist overthrow argument, either by saying that Musk has already completed a coup, or that there's going to be a coup in 2028, instead of the same elections we've had for longer than anybody here has been alive.

You're right. It's not a "coup", because it's entirely the people's will and happened within the normal systems. It's not a "fascist overthrow", it's just America becoming overtly fascist by nature, politically. No "overthrow", natural evolution and emergence into popularity.

That's worse, mind you.

[tehdang]

Antonin Scalia basically destroys the current approach of the Trump administration. The Trump admin has decided that congress and the senate doesnt matter and everything will be act first and fight it in the court later.

The expansion of executive power under Trump is insane and unseen. Obviously, this is a process in the making for a while but the executive is now seeking to expand it into dictatorial territory.The GOP want a king under Trump, and are all to willing to cede all the power to one man. The king, Trump

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Also worth mentioning that this process isnt dont illegally, Hungary didnt descend into authoritarianism illegally. Its a slow process and then suddenly. Weakening the guard rails and then pressing them hard until it finally breaks. That is the strategy of the Trump admin.

This is flowery and all, but what do you mean? Rather, was this also true of the Biden administration, when it was rebuked by the Supreme Court for unconstitutional student loan forgiveness, and Biden said he wasn't going to let it stop him? How about deeming a constitutional amendment to have passed, when no such thing happened? Or refusing to enforce the nation's borders until it became politically impossible to continue to do it?

But let's pretend, for sake of argument, you want to be nonpartisan. Of course, the Biden administration behaved lawlessly, but that's no excuse for the Trump administration. The same issues apply. Is Congress willing to impeach the executive over failure to execute the laws? If they're not, why not? If the impeachment power is just another popularity contest, is it really the executive's fault? And what are you talking about "expand it into dictatorial territory?" Is he jailing protesters? Are the Democratic opposition leaders under house arrest? Has he imposed a curfew? What dictatorial powers?

I'm guessing you don't like the executive branch wielding power over the executive branch. Or you take for granted, without even thinking one minute, of how many legislative powers that the legislative branch has delegated to the executive branch. Or you've forgotten how Congress repeatedly rejected Obama's legislative and budgetary priorities, and he responding by saying he had a pen and a phone. As much as I think you have a point buried in here that is partially correct, you are describing a 20-year bipartisan slide towards increased executive power. You've woken up in your underwear and you're reading history books that start in 2016 to try to understand what happened. It's not good enough. Scalia went back to the literal federalist papers, and that's probably a good place to start. Not just the popular ones, but all of them cover to cover.

[Xath]

You ignore history to make an imaginary point. Tell the class the last time an attempt of insurrection has happened in the last 50yrs. Or treason..

2021 and arguably right now

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Ultimately I believe Trumpism will fail because he is an idiot, dictatorship only works if you give the people something in return for your power grab. The CCP uplifted millions from poverty, Putin for all his fault made life better compared to how bad Russia was before. Trump on the other hand is just looting everything and actively making life worse, the question is how bad will things get before people really turn on him. While I have no hope for the Neo Nazi racist cult followers which represent 28-33% of the population, the rest will turn especially after he guts social security, medicare, medicaid, SNAP and other popular programs.

These people don't care until it affects them directly and Trump is planning to hit them where it hurts because he gives zero fucks.

This is the only reason I have hope they are ignoring the first part of Hitler's rise which is that he legitimately made life better for a lot of working class people he didn't purely focus on othering groups he made life better for a good chunk of the majority. Hell brown shirts came from the free shirts he was handing out to the undesirables of society now it quickly spiraled but that initial good will was damn important in establishing complete control.

[Rasulis]

He is ignoring court orders to release funds.

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And the increases are all tax cuts for those making over 350k yearly and corporations.

The largest beneficiaries of the tax cuts would be corporation. Trump's 2017 tax cut reduced Federal top corporate income tax from 35% to 21%. Currently for individual households it is 37%. The proposed tax cuts would further reduce it to 15%.

My best advice, hire a good financial advisor, and see how much of your income could be received as LLC or Corp. If you have rental properties, received annuities or structured payments (example from selling a business). You want those payments to go to your LLC or Corp. Not only do you get the lower tax rate, but all expenses are also deductible. Including the money you paid to the financial advisor.

[Paetolus]

This is flowery and all, but what do you mean? Rather, was this also true of the Biden administration, when it was rebuked by the Supreme Court for unconstitutional student loan forgiveness, and Biden said he wasn't going to let it stop him?

The Supreme Court struck that down based on a specific statute. Biden simply used different in-place methods to give out forgiveness that have been in place for a while. Most of it was to people who already were owed forgiveness for years, but never got it. People on specific forgiveness plans for government work or non-profit employees. Biden never defied the Supreme Court, always see this tossed around and it's annoying.